Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Rohloff Internal Hub Gears => Topic started by: Le-roi-du-camboui on November 01, 2017, 05:17:44 pm
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Hi everybody,
http://imageshack.com/a/img924/3615/Rvw2hJ.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img923/284/kPXbPi.jpg
As you can see on the pictures, My Rohloff Hub is loosing massive amounts of oil and as a consequence, it is dirty.
Oil leaks out from under the sprocket (a lot) and out of the quick release axle (a bit)
I troubleshooted partially the lick on the OEM plate already, but that massive one on the sprocket side is a bit more tricky
What do you think? should Is there a way to resolve this persistent problem before returning the wheel for inspection?
I ordered a sprocket removal tool from SJSC to remove the sprocket to find out if there is something wrong behind it.
The hub is 6 years old and it has got approximately 25000 kms
The last oil change was few weeks ago and I put 15 ml of oil
Thanks a lot for your advice
I might contact Rolhoff to know what to do in that case
It is what happens when you buy a second hand hub...
If I send it to Rolhoff, I might pay a fortune to get it fixed
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PERSONALLY I would go 'Route One'....Email Rohloff and see what they say. Our opinions are nothing more than just that, our opinions. Whatever we say, ULTIMATELY you will have to contact Rohloff anyway, you might as well do it ASAP.
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in the words of that great philosopher Joe Soap.
it's KNACKERED send it back.
anto.
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Thanks a lot for your answers;
I will email them tomorrow to see what they say..
In fact, I might have to return as it looks in bad shape :( I hope the bill won't be too salty
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The photos don't show 'massive amounts of oil', I can see nothing untoward there.
I wouldn't worry too much about it, but if you need reassurance contact Rohloff or speak to SJSC.
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I agree with Rual. I can't see what is wrong. Your Rohloff box has less oil on it than mine, and I know for a fact oil on mine is just breather oil, perfectly normal; I wipe it off every New Year's day. If your hub doesn't make graunching noises, I would assume that:
a) it is simply condensation from the change in seasons (I've had pools of water under my hub, eventually traced by elimination to the heating coming on and switching off again at night, but terrifying before I learned how one lives with a Rohloff), or,
b) that you didn't drain the hub properly before you put in the 15ml of oil you mention.
There's no harm in writing to Rohloff or, if you're nearer to them, SJS. Better to look a bit silly than to have to buy a another box.
However, if you bought a secondhand box I assume you're on a budget, so you must consider the possibility that, to cover their own backsides, they will call in your box and disassemble it to be absolutely certain that they can give it a clean bill of health, and charge you for the labour since you aren't the first owner.
One more consideration: Do you have service records for the box from the previous owner? If the box has been regularly serviced (every year or every 5000km, whichever comes first, or close enough), then you shouldn't worry unless the box is audibly destroying itself, a very unlikely scenario.
See, according to Rohloff, as you clearly know if you know to put in only 15ml of oil, the oil that adheres immovably to the gears is enough to safeguard the internals against mishap for at least a year in any kind of use. This makes the box almost indestructible if it is serviced once a year, which is why I question any "problem" that isn't accompanied by the noise of a gearbox destroying itself. Even if the seals are damaged, personally I would wait to see how long the loss of oil persists, at least to ascertain that you didn't overfill the box by not draining the cleaning oil thoroughly.
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This looks like alot of hubs I get, very rarely do we have to send them to Rohloff.
First off add cleaning oil and ride, then remove drain plug and leave somewhere at room temperature overnight to make sure you get as much oil out as possible.
The remove the sprocket, clean the sprocket thoroughly so it looks new, clean the exposed seal, I find brake cleaner and a lint free cloth works best.
Inspect the tube section of the sprocket to make sure there is no grove worn in it, this will allow oil to flow under the seal, if in doubt replace.
Now remove the torx screws holding the axle plate on with the hub set so the concertina tubes are roughly equal, then remove the exposed T20 screw and pull the axle ring off.
Clean thoroughly the axle ring and inspect the rub ring on it for a grove as per sprocket, if this is worn then return it to me and I can press a new one on.
Refit the sprocket with grease.
Refit the axle ring with new gaskets and screws.
Refill the hub with 15ml of oil.
This should now sort it. The only time this wont work is:
- If the external hub seals are damaged (you will be able to see this)
- The driver bearing seals are damaged (this would show as oil flowing out directly behind the alloy driver nut (which you should NEVER touch)
In both these cases you would need to send it to a Rohloff service partner to replace parts.
Hope this helps,
Dave Whittle
Thorn Workshop
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Thanks a lot for your answers! that's really helpfull!
In fact, I bought a second hand box because my budget is tight but I always considered the possibility that I have to return it; The box was a good deal so I took the risk....
Now I don't have any service records of the previous owner and I have no proof that the hub has been regularly serviced
That's the reason I immediately proceeded an oil change and If I remember, I couldn't drain more than 25ml of liquid after injecting the cleaning oil inside the hub.. ...I potentially didn't drain the hub properly
The hub is not accompanied by the noise of a gearbox destroying itself but I must say it's really grindy and noisy in gears 1 to 7; As it's my first Rohloff hub, it's a bit surprising and I don't know where to position myself concerning this! is this usual or unusual?! I don't have any other hub to try out to compare.
I will follow Dave's instructions by tomorrow and I will let you know
Your messages help a lot, many thanks
I might have to replace the sprocket but It's going to be tricky to find one in Paris (SJSC is out of stock at the moment)
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Threaded sprockets are no longer sold by Rohloff you now need a carrier https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/sprockets/rohloff-splined-sprocket-carrier-slim-8540s/ and splined sprocket https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/sprockets/13-rohloff-speedhub-50014-hub-gear-reversible-splined-sprocket-steel/
1-7 is really noisy compared to 8-14 because there are more parts inside the hub moving, totally normal.
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thanks a lot for the explanations and the links
I'm going to order those parts from SJSC as soon as possible in order I find out what is going on with this hub;
I just need to think about the transmission ratio first
Until now, my ratio was 42/17 and it was fine so I should stay with that
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I still haven't ordered a new sprocket as I'm thinking about the gear combo.
I was wondering, in the case I want to remove the gear unit to inspect inside the hub casing but in the Rohloff manual they recommend to replace the paper gasket (I got one) and the joints which transfere the power from the gearbox to the hub case (I don't have any)
Is it really necessary to replace those joints?
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Threaded sprockets are no longer sold by Rohloff you now need a carrier https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/sprockets/rohloff-splined-sprocket-carrier-slim-8540s/ and splined sprocket https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/sprockets/13-rohloff-speedhub-50014-hub-gear-reversible-splined-sprocket-steel/
1-7 is really noisy compared to 8-14 because there are more parts inside the hub moving, totally normal.
So does this mean my Chainglider won't line up as before?
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Matt, I think you'd need the slimline carrier -- that has a chainline that's about 54 mm, as I recall. There was a looong thread about the ripple effects of the new splined carrier, and the matter of the new chainline (about 57mm, originally). It appeared that the 'glider wouldn't fit so well with this chainline -- not enough clearance around the chainstay.
Then, the problem went away when the "S" version of the carrier appeared. (I wondered: why did Rohloff even bother with a non-'S' version in the first place?) I still have my spare threaded sprocket -- reckon I won't need to replace it for 2 - 3 years, even if I'm able to do some long-ish tours.
Cheers, John
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As far as I know, the Chainglider doesn't work with the splined carier. The slimline version only narrows the chainline to 54mm. the carrier for the splined version lacks a surface for the Chainglider to ride upon. best to hunt out some replacement screw on cogs whilst they are still available. I'm not sure which cog you use but there are 16t available at Evans Cycles: https://www.evanscycles.com/rohloff-speedhub-sprocket-EV183484
also Rose Bike: https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/rohloff-replacement-sprocket-for-speedhub/aid:269319?channable=e8467.MjY5MzE5&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0Lj2wKOp1wIVhhbTCh0KEw3uEAQYAiABEgI8UfD_BwE
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The chain-glider simply needs the revised rear section.
I was wondering, in the case I want to remove the gear unit to inspect inside the hub casing but in the Rohloff manual they recommend to replace the paper gasket (I got one) and the joints which transfere the power from the gearbox to the hub case (I don't have any)
Is it really necessary to replace those joints?
Yes it is, but there really is no point in opening up the hub, as you cant adjust anything and there would be nothing to see even if it were faulty in any way.
Hope this helps, Dave
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Dave, you are right: There is no point in opening up the hub so I will keep cool with this. ( I know from my small experience in mechanic that the perfect is the enemy of the good!)
Concerning my oil leaks, I got some improvements:
I removed the old sprocket, it was really dirty behind it so I cleaned it up;
After that, I installed it again (flipped) because the side of the sprocket whitch was on the hub side before was slightly marked and in fact, with the other side, after a big ride, the sprocket side of the hub kept clean (almost no oil)
I really need a new sprocket
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The chain-glider simply needs the revised rear section.
Thanks very much, Dave -- that's reassuring.
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As far as I know, the Chainglider doesn't work with the splined carier. The slimline version only narrows the chainline to 54mm. the carrier for the splined version lacks a surface for the Chainglider to ride upon. best to hunt out some replacement screw on cogs whilst they are still available. I'm not sure which cog you use but there are 16t available at Evans Cycles: https://www.evanscycles.com/rohloff-speedhub-sprocket-EV183484
also Rose Bike: https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/rohloff-replacement-sprocket-for-speedhub/aid:269319?channable=e8467.MjY5MzE5&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0Lj2wKOp1wIVhhbTCh0KEw3uEAQYAiABEgI8UfD_BwE
Thanks for the info.
I'm using 38*17
None at Evans or Rose.
I'll keep looking or consider a new end for the ' glider.
But I have yet to flip the rings. I need to check my milage since fitted.
All good fun.
Many thanks
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Titanium screw on sprockets for Rohloff available from USA, http://www.ebay.com/itm/192324898792
No idea if they are any good though..
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As far as I know, the Chainglider doesn't work with the splined carier. The slimline version only narrows the chainline to 54mm. the carrier for the splined version lacks a surface for the Chainglider to ride upon. best to hunt out some replacement screw on cogs whilst they are still available. I'm not sure which cog you use but there are 16t available at Evans Cycles: https://www.evanscycles.com/rohloff-speedhub-sprocket-EV183484
also Rose Bike: https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/rohloff-replacement-sprocket-for-speedhub/aid:269319?channable=e8467.MjY5MzE5&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0Lj2wKOp1wIVhhbTCh0KEw3uEAQYAiABEgI8UfD_BwE
Thanks for the info.
I'm using 38*17
None at Evans or Rose.
I'll keep looking or consider a new end for the ' glider.
But I have yet to flip the rings. I need to check my milage since fitted.
All good fun.
Many thanks
Hi Matt,
There is a 17 tooth sprocket available on Ebay, here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183014000282?ul_noapp=true
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Thanks for the info.
I'm using 38*17
None at Evans or Rose.
I'll keep looking or consider a new end for the ' glider.
But I have yet to flip the rings. I need to check my milage since fitted.
All good fun.
Many thanks
Hi Matt
I use the Chainglider on my Mercury, same sprocket 38 / 17 and it works fine with the Slimline splined sprocket - just make sure the rear section for the chainglider is the Rohloff version.....
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chainsets/hebie-chainglider-chainguard-for-rohloff-1517t-rear-black/ (https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chainsets/hebie-chainglider-chainguard-for-rohloff-1517t-rear-black/)
Carlos
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17 tooth screw on sprocket available on ebay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rohloff-Speedhub-500-14-Hub-Gear-Reversible-Sprocket-Steel-17-tooth/183050868211?hash=item2a9eae95f3:g:bpAAAOSwlxRaWKMq
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Thanks macspud
Interesting that SJS don't have any in stock but the eBay seller is in Bridgewater.
And he/she has another size of sprocket for sale!
Anyone smell fish?
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Is it the ebay username that is getting your nose twitching? ;)
I think it's Robin Thorn's personal ebay account.