Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: aage on July 24, 2017, 03:35:34 pm
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Sarah Dunn have now reply´d to my email and I´m specking my Nomad bike.
I have never had a real touring bike before , I did tour in the past on a mountain bike with slickers and also on a Scwinn Xross that was to small for me. I did ride up to 100 miles a day and always a little beaten after.
So now i´m buying a real touring bike and I want it to be as comfortable as possible for multi days long distance touring.
I´m trying to decide if to take Relaxed or very Relaxed position for that bike.
Can any of you that already have a Nomad give me advice or pro´s con´s relaxed vs Very Relaxed.
Would also be thankful for recommendations about upgrades , good things to add to the order and specks.
Aki
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i don't think there's such a thing as relaxed or very relaxed , if your comfy on the bike then leave well enough alone.
are you going for rohloff set up (god forbid) f so i know nothing.
if your going for triple up front 48/34/28 and on the rear 11 to 36 will get you over any terraine IMHO.
everyone will no doubt recommend Brooks saddle good and all as there are Fizik Alanti is better and much lighter By a mile.
any hoo good luck have fun.
jags.
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Aki,
Welcome to the forum.
Relaxed or very relaxed is probably a more upright riding position meaning more pressure on the saddle and less on the handlebars, also not riding as fast as possible - even stopping occasionally for a drink or a photo session.
That would suit me as my back is stiffer the older I get and I am in no rush.
What sort of touring are you planning?
• Bed and breakfast
• Wild camping
• Frame bags with minimalist gear
• Full on self sufficient camping with comfort
• Towing a trailer eg taking the dog with you
• Would you keep going in bad weather or go home
Do tell and we may be able to give relevant advice.
Julian.
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I´m going with Rolhoff ( I though the Nomad only came with Rolhoff ? ). But anyway I will take the Rolhoff version no matter.
I´m planning in my head mostly ;-) all kind of touring in the future, unsupported and of a different lenght and difficulty. Then only time will tell how much of a actual touring it will be :-).
I just want a bike that gives me all possibilities in the future no matter what I will decide to do.
I will retire in maximum 8 and a half year from now and I do have good vacations both winter and summer and Im gonna use that vacation time to look around the world on the bike.
I used to do touring about 20 years ago along with long distance running. I´m slowly working on running and cycling again , getting back in shape.
Out of everything I have done the bicycle touring memory´s are among the best I have and its the reason I wont to get back into it.
I took a photo of myself sitting on my mountain 29r bike. Its the most comfortable I have had till now and if I compare my position to the Relaxed, Very Relaxed photos in the Thorn Mega brochure I will go with the Relaxed position.
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best of luck with the bike the Thorn bikes are Class you wont have any problems no matter what build u go for,(i just like winding up all the Rohloff lads) check out Dan's nomad he has loads photos on the forum and his take on bikes is only magic.
jags.
Eh don't start me on Hilleberg Tents ;)
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I bought my Nomad with the S&S couplers. That is an extra cost and the cost of a case that will fit the bike is yet another cost. I have only taken this bike on one airplane round trip, thus have not yet saved enough on air travel to pay for those extra costs. But I am glad that I bought the S&S couplers. But, it takes a couple hours to disassemble the bike to fit it in a travel case and a few more hours to re-assemble it after the flight. If you would be looking at high costs for taking the bike on a plane in a case larger than typical luggage size, you need to think about the cost savings. And if you are not mechanically inclined, then disassembly and re-assembly might not be something you want to do either. I worked in a bike shop before college and built up my bike myself, so I am quite comfortable with disassembly to pack my bike in a S&S sized case.
If keeping electronics charged is a concern, if you ever want to buy a dynohub, get that hub when you initially buy the bike. To have another wheel built later would mean the extra cost of a second hub, a second set of spokes, a second wheel build fee, and possibly a second rim. But if you never will want a dynohub then don't get one. I put a B&M Luxos U light on my most recent build, I am pretty happy with it. It is a headlamp that is powered from a dynohub and also has a USB charging port.
You mention relaxed or very relaxed riding position. I use drop bars and when I push into a strong headwind, I am not relaxed and I use the drops on my drop bars for a more aerodynamic position. Thus, my riding style is quite different than what you are looking for so I offer no advice.
Brakes - if you get rim brakes, consider the CSS rim for better rim life. If you get disc brakes, I am pretty happy with TRP Spyre brake on my newest bike. You may also consider a disc on the rear and rim brake on the front, there is no reason that you can't mix brake types front and rear. The Spyre is the only disc brake that I have ever owned, so I can't compare with other brakes. But the BB7 is another popular disc brake used for touring so you may want to consider that brake too. Rim brakes are cheaper but if you get a CSS rim or two of them, that is a higher cost too.
If you get fenders (mudguards), get the widest ones that you might ever want to use. I often use 57mm wide tires, thus I need a fender that is wide enough that it will work that width tire. And if you have SJS fit the fenders, ask them to make sure that the stays are long enough for the largest tires you would ever use.
There are a lot of pros and cons to gearing. For touring I wanted my lowest gear to have a speed of 3.5 miles per hour (5.63 km/hour) with a cadence of 72. Some want higher gearing but many choose even lower gearing than that. I am running a 36 tooth chainring and 16 tooth rear sprocket.
At this link is an exceptionally long discussion of gearing that was started five years ago. This is more information than you could ever possibly want to know about Rohloff gearing.
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4412.0
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Thats a great post 8)
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Very good informations guy´s , thanks for advicing.
I have already asked the bike to have Rolhoff with the disk option, SS couplers and Son dynamo hub along with USB charger ( the usb charger is EXPENSIVE, more than I thougth it would be ).
I will take the coated CSS rim or rims, have been advised about having the rear one coated and the front uncoated for better wet performance. Still looking into that.
I´m gonna go with V-Brakes for simplicity.
Good advice for the Fenders. The biggest tire I use on my Hardtail is 2.25 and I like it a lot in a loose gravel, very bad roads and trails.
You say you did go with " I am running a 36 tooth chainring and 16 tooth rear sprocket". Do you know what it is compared to a mountain bike gearings ?. Is it lower than normally you get on a 11 speed or higher ?
I´m still thinking about the handlebar, will probably end up with a straight bar with some bar ends.
I´m pretty confident in tearing apart and reassemble. I put my last bike together myself along with my sons bike.
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I am in USA where we still use inches and feet. It is common here to compare bike gears by using gear inches. With a 36 and 16 and using Marathon Extreme 57mm wide tires (26 X 2.25) that gives me a range of 16.5 to 86.5 gear inches.
More on gear inches here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_inches
SJS usually uses 17 tooth sprockets, I have a 16 because that is the sprocket that typically comes with a new Rohloff from anyone other than SJS.
I use higher gearing for riding around home where I do not have to haul heavy loads up hills, the gearing and chainring size of 36 that I cited here is what I use for touring.
I have no specific suggestions for theft protection, but I would like to point out that in Iceland you are fortunate that there is very little theft. When I was there last summer there were times that I did not bother to lock up my bike at night in the campground because it was so safe. But outside of Iceland you will need a good lock and you should use it frequently.
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One more thing on S&S couplers. The smaller the frame, the easier it will be to pack the bike. I have a 590M Nomad Mk II, and it is a very tight fit in the bag. I did not bring fenders to Iceland because it was a tight fit. And, the bike (with the components that I used) with the weight of an S&S case was over 50 pounds which was the limit on the airline I usually fly on for avoiding overweight fees. Thus, a few parts of my bike are packed elsewhere, such as the pedals, Brooks Conquest saddle because they were heavy. The rear rack was also packed elsewhere because I could not get it in the case with the bike. (I do not use the Thorn rear rack, maybe their rack would have fit?). My point is that the bike size will also determine how easy it is to pack in the case.
Although I managed to get my fork in the case with the frame, Thorn has commented that the fork won't fit. When I bought the bike I planned to pack the fork in different luggage, and because the fork is hard to fit in the S&S case I might pack the fork in a different bag in the future.
You saw my Iceland trip posting, so there is a bit more packing information there.
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V-brakes - I found the Shimano blocks quite rough on uncoated rims, Koolstop salmon on uncoated rims work very well in the wet.
CSS coated rims can be poor for braking in the very wet. I had my front rim changed for an uncoated one and am much happier now. Have the rear rim CSS coated and use the appropriate Swissstop or Koolstop brake blocks, this makes for a very long lasting rear wheel which brakes very well in the dry.
Gearing - I ended up with a 38x17 setup and use a Chainglider to keep the chain immaculate. It really works if it fits on the bike. The lowest gear is so slow up hills you just about fall off. Downhill I am prepared to freewheel!
Tyres - I use 2” Schwalbe Dureme tyres and find them supple and comfortable to ride loaded and unloaded.
Handlebars/grips - Using ‘straight’ bars I have found the Ergon GP1 grips so comfortable that I don’t want bar ends.
Racks - Get the best quality steel racks for carrying luggage, either Thorn or Tubus are excellent and can be taken off if travelling light. Be aware that the rear mudguards may be fastened to the rear rack.
Have fun choosing your setup.
Julian.
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mickeg: I think I will need the same size as you or maybe the next one smaller. I also see the SS couplers good just for the possibility of putting the bike into a trunk of a car etc,,, .
Julk : I will probably go with the same as you, coated rim on the rear and nonecoated on the front.
I have the same ergon GP1 on my 29r and its very nice but I think I will still try the comfort bar extender on the nomad , then just exchange if i´m not happy.
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I can highly recommend this USB charger,it's charged everything I've tried,very small and fits under the handlebar stem;https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/dynamos/sinewave-cycles-revolution-usb-dynamo-powered-charging-device/
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I can highly recommend this USB charger,it's charged everything I've tried,very small and fits under the handlebar stem;https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/dynamos/sinewave-cycles-revolution-usb-dynamo-powered-charging-device/
I used that same charger for my Iceland trip. Worked great. But later I bought a Garmin 64 GPS that can also charge NiMH batteries and I found that the Sinewave by itself does not play well with the Garmin 64. But if a cache battery is used in the circuit, then it works great.
In the photo, the copper colored cylinder is a cache battery - power can go into it and out of it simultaneously. Sometimes that is also referred to as a pass through battery. I took this photo on my Florida trip in February. For two weeks I was self sustainable for power, did not need any external power sources.
The Sinewave is one of the best chargers for waterproofness. If your devices do not need the cache battery in the circuit, it is one of the best chargers out there. But unfortunately you don't know until you plug something into it in which case you might find that it does not charge right.
I used the Sinewave with a vintage D-Lumotec oval lamp that I think is discontinued by wiring the two in parallel circuit. That is how I had light or USB power, but not both simultaniously.
For my most recent build, I bought a B&M Luxos U. It has a cache battery built in and works great with my Garmin 64. I like it very much.
I also have an AXA Luxx 70 Plus. That also needs a cache battery when I use it with my Garmin. Very nice light but I was nervous about the poor waterproofing in the area of the USB port, that is why I bought the Sinewave for my Iceland trip.
I think the USB port on the AXA puts out about 20 percent less power than the Sinewave. The Sinewave might put out a bit more power than the Luxos U, but because there is a built in cache battery it is hard to compare.
I think Dan has experience with "The Plug" that is a USB charger located at the stem cap. I am not familiar with that one so I can't comment.
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+1 for the Sinewave. First-rate equipment, 100% reliable over the four years that I've used it. At first I used the Sinewave on a dual circuit, for charging and/or lighting. That was never wholly satisfactory--the light has the priority--so I switched to a battery-powered Cygolite headlight to go along with a couple of battery-powered tail lights. During the day, the Sinewave charges an Anker 5200 storage battery; at night, that recharges my lights/phone/camera as needed. I rarely need to recharge more than one of those at a time, so that the Sinewave/Anker is more than enough for my requirements.
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+1 for the Sinewave. First-rate equipment, 100% reliable over the four years that I've used it. At first I used the Sinewave on a dual circuit, for charging and/or lighting. That was never wholly satisfactory--the light has the priority--so I switched to a battery-powered Cygolite headlight to go along with a couple of battery-powered tail lights. During the day, the Sinewave charges an Anker 5200 storage battery; at night, that recharges my lights/phone/camera as needed. I rarely need to recharge more than one of those at a time, so that the Sinewave/Anker is more than enough for my requirements.
You raise a good point on lighting, dynohub powered or battery. I have three bikes with dynohubs, but all three use battery powered taillights. In USA where I live, flashing red taillights are legal and I often run flashing red laillights during the daytime at the same time that I am using USB power to charge batteries. I very rarely run a headlamp during the daytime, thus a dynopowered headlamp instead of battery headlamp does not prevent me from getting a lot of charge out of my USB port.
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Excuse the 20w moment Mickeg, what is the small LCD unit sitting atop your battery? Thanks.
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Excuse the 20w moment Mickeg, what is the small LCD unit sitting atop your battery? Thanks.
An ammeter I got on Ebay. I was watching how much power I was putting into the cache battery. I am an engineer, so that is the sort of thing I like to watch.
They are cheaply made. I had one fail for no reason at all. I also learned the hard way that they are not waterproof in rain. (I brought two to Iceland, both failed, but the water logged one eventually came back to life.)
This is the one I like to use. It measures in milliamps and being a LCD (instead of LED) it is readable in sunlight. I used adhesive backed velcro to attach. I also carry a regular cable so when the meter fails I have a cable to use.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Charger-Data-Cable-Current-Meter-Tester-Test-for-Samsung-HTC-Andriod-MSYG-/361524012732
I think Dan uses a meter too, but his might be a different one.
I have used several different meters, most of which I did not like or were unreadable on sunny days.
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I think Dan uses a meter too, but his might be a different one.
I do indeed use a meter for testing purposes, but once I have established charging rates (in current and voltage) I leave it home to minimize power losses due to increased resistance as a function of length and at the (additional) connectors, which can become poor and subject to problems if they become wet by rain or dew.
I rewired a couple of my meters with heavier-duty low-loss shielded coaxial cable and new clamshell connectors and found they worked much better. While they measure voltage and current as before, the actual resistance losses at the device being charged are now less. I check my meters with a separate volt/ohm meter, but if you don't have a VOM, you can gang multiple meters and see which ones are more or less efficient by changing the order. The meters themselves seem to have low parasitic losses, but the same cannot be said for their cables, connectors or -- sometimes -- soldered connectors (which are often "cold" or "disturbed" joints by my observation.
In my testing, aside from the actual charger being used, cable length and quality and connector/soldered joint quality were the greatest determinants in power reaching a pass-through cache battery or device batteries. It pays to use quality cables with good connectors and keep them as short as possible. I prefer cables with gold-plated pins. Yes, they avoid surface corrosion, but more generally they indicate higher quality materials are used elsewhere in the cable/device.
There is a good general caution to avoid charging in the rain when the connectors are wet no matter how or whether the pins are plated. Not only can water interfere with a good connection, it can encourage electrolysis at the connection when voltage is passed through, causing the pins in the charger to erode and eventually fail/become open. I have made a little "shower cap" for my Tout Terrain charger that addresses this problem, but other chargers address it by design. I put my cache battery and device(s) being charges inside the handlebar bag during charging for this reason. It is the easiest way for me to shield the connectors from water exposure and keep them secure on rough roads.
While I have a lot of experience with the Tout Terrain/Cinq5 "Plug" chargers, I am also testing another model that looks very promising at a low price. I will make a full report as soon as time permits me to complete my tests.
All the best,
Dan.
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In USA where I live, flashing red taillights are legal and I often run flashing red taillights during the daytime at the same time that I am using USB power to charge batteries. I very rarely run a headlamp during the daytime
Interesting, George. I use the headlight in flashing mode frequently whenever there's a lot of traffic, and almost always on grey or rainy days. On the other hand, I use my tail-lights during the day only on grey/rainy days, or in shadowy conditions. I find oncoming traffic is usually more of a problem than vehicles coming up from behind.
So, the daytime charging of the Anker battery, and night-time re-charging of the lights, etc., works well for me.
(I rarely ride at night--my eyes aren't really good enough, and long years in Africa left me reflexively cautious about night-time hazards. Here, we have only the deer to worry about, although in Atlantic Canada, moose are a formidable addition to the list.)
Cheers, John
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Thanks Mickeg, much appreciated.
Whilst we were discussing sinewave I came across a new light of theirs http://www.cyclingabout.com/sinewave-cycles-beacon-dynamo-light/
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+1 for the Sinewave. First-rate equipment, 100% reliable over the four years that I've used it. At first I used the Sinewave on a dual circuit, for charging and/or lighting. That was never wholly satisfactory--the light has the priority--so I switched to a battery-powered Cygolite headlight to go along with a couple of battery-powered tail lights. During the day, the Sinewave charges an Anker 5200 storage battery; at night, that recharges my lights/phone/camera as needed. I rarely need to recharge more than one of those at a time, so that the Sinewave/Anker is more than enough for my requirements.
Thats what I do John,use mine during the day to charge my cache battery,also an Anker,if need be I just plug my sinewave straight into my Wahoo elemnt to recharge that which it does perfectly,Sarah at Thorn put me on to it when I was speccing my Raven,thanks Sarah.
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Thanks Mickeg, much appreciated.
Whilst we were discussing sinewave I came across a new light of theirs http://www.cyclingabout.com/sinewave-cycles-beacon-dynamo-light/
looks fantastic but man the price :o :o
ah if a fella only had money.
anto.
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Whilst we were discussing sinewave I came across a new light of theirs http://www.cyclingabout.com/sinewave-cycles-beacon-dynamo-light/
Thanks for posting that, but it says the light is symetrical. I prefer a light like the B&M Luxos U or the AXA Luxx 70 Plus (two lights that I own) that are non-symmetrical because I would rather have a wider flat beam than one that puts light in places where I don't need any light.
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Good discussion and good advice from everyone. One thing you might want to consider doing is replacing your handlebars with a Jones H bar - something I did and wish I did it earlier. The sweep of the handlebar (in addition to other adjustments to the stem and seat) placed me into a more upright and comfortable cycling position. I had no problem moving the Rohloff shifter onto the Jones H Bar or my brakes. Happy touring!