Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: Huernie on October 24, 2015, 03:21:51 pm
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Ok, I give up. I confess; I don't ride a Thorn. 4 years ago I bought a Koga Signature. It's basically the spec that Mark Beaumont rode on his Americas trip (Rohloff, SON dynamo, hydraulic discs, tubus racks etc) and I think it's a great bike. I ride about 5500 miles a year and consider myself reasonably fit. I use it for my commute, weekend riding, credit card short tours and for a 6 week '4 pannier cycle camping' trip each summer. I feel the bike fits really well but it weighs between 17 and 18kg depending on which tyres etc. I am running. I weigh approx. 10 stone. Here's my problem - I find that I am really slow on the bike. On a good day, over a 50 mile 'average up and down' unloaded ride I might average 10mph. Loaded this drops to about an 8mph average. It's very taxing in a headwind where I really do struggle. I am not looking to race and am happy to relax and enjoy the scenery, but when old ladies with shopping baskets pass me by I always ask myself, is it time for a change?
My question is this - would a fairly light build of a Mercury make a significant difference to my speed to justify the cost? Something along the lines of Mega Brochure 'recipe B3 or D3'.
Any thoughts or experiences would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. I did buy my wife a Sherpa to make up for me buying a Koga!
Cheers
Andy
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Andy,
definitely a good idea - as splashing out on a Mercury will certainly lighten your wallet!
But first it might be worth trying lighter wheels/tyres on your current bike to see if that speeds thing up enough.
I find that 2” wide flexible light tyres run at a lowish pressure have the best result for my riding.
Julian.
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Hi Andy.lighter wheels and tyres will transform your koga .(slicks)
nothing like getting a new bike tho, but what's the story u only averaging 10mph your doing something wrong thats for certain .
10 stone man what i wouldn't give to be that weight again ,when i was all those years ago i could average 19mph but yeah those days are well gone, im 62 now but still i can on a good day average 13.5 to 15mph ,this morning spin with the leisure group over some hard hills we averaged 13.5mph 650 mt of climbing .
so yes i'de say it's not the bike but the pilot,now don't take that the wrong way seriously thing you need to eat and train more.
the koga your on is a class bike just change the wheels and tyres ..
jags.
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Changing the tyres would be the first thing to try, depending what tyres you have on at the moment?
On my Sherpa which weighs around 17kg, unloaded, I probably only average 10-11 mph, but there are quite a few hills around here, I have 2 inch Marathon Supreme tyres, which are good.
Loaded touring, I probably average around 10mph as well, after a few days getting used to the extra weight.
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Tires, as everybody else suggested.
I am not familiar with the bike you have, I do not know if it is 700c or 26 inch. If 26 inch, maybe look for some fairly supple 40mm wide tires, something like the Vittoria Randonea Pro. If 700c, there are a huge number of good tires, so I won't bother suggesting a brand or model. Width, could pretty much be up to you and you might consider for loaded touring a wider set and for around home riding with minimal load a narrower set of tires.
The thing you are looking for is a tire that is very supple, the tire carcass and fabric will feel very flexible. The bead does not matter, so a wire bead will not be slower than a folding kevlar bead. The key is the sidewall and the tread, you want a tire that takes very little energy to deform it. After all at 15km, you are deforming about 9 meters of tire for every second that you are riding it, so you want a tire that will not consume energy to deform it.
I find that my vintage Columbus tubing fast bike with skinny tires feels much faster than my Thorn Nomad (heavier bike than yours), but when I get home after a bike ride on flat and level terrain, the actual time spent on the road was not much different. Although my fast bike is not in the ultra light carbon class of bikes, it probably is almost as fast as those bikes are on the flat and level. Note that I said flat and level, you did not say if you are doing big hills or not. It is the hills where the weight of a bike becomes much more noticeable. If you are frequently wearing out brake pads, then maybe you should consider a lighter bike.
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A light-build Mercury should be faster than a Koga Signature, but perhaps not enough to be worthwhile.
I've had lots of bikes over the years, and for me, bicycle weight is one of the least important factors influencing speed, though it does play a small part, especially on hills and for stop-start town riding. Weight in wheel rims and tyres is more important than weight elsewhere.
Apart from training, the two factors I find most important are first aerodynamics, mostly influenced by riding position, and second tyres. Not found the difference between derailleurs and hub gears to be very significant.
I am significantly faster on a drop-handlebar bike than on a bike with flat handlebars. And I reckon good lightweight tyres with thin sidewalls are faster than heavier tyres with thicker sidewalls.
My current heavy tourer is a Rohloff-equipped Thorn Raven Tour. Not weighed it, but probably equivalent to Koga Signature. This bike has heavy Andra 30 rims, but lightweight Schwalbe Supreme tyres in the fattest 2 inch size. And drop handlebars. Front and rear racks and a set of medium size panniers to carry my stuff. I reckon to do about 22 kph average speed with the Raven Tour on the 50 km circuit with moderate hills I quite often ride.
My lightest bike is a lightweight 700C drop handlebar tourer with derailleur gears and 28 mm Schwalbe One lightweight (near racing type) tyres. Almost certainly slightly lighter than the lightest Mercury build. No racks, just a saddlebag tucked into an aerodynamic position behind the rider. On the same 50 km circuit I average about 24 kph on this bike. About 10% faster. If I tweaked the Thorn (saddlebag, no racks) I reckon the difference would be much less.
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what's the story u only averaging 10mph your doing something wrong
I have been quite stuck at 10 mph on my Nomad. I live in hilly country and weigh 2.5 pounds per inch. Joel Friel says anything much over 2 pounds per inch, forget the hills. If you want to race! I just go 10 mph and don't worry about those old ladies with shopping baskets. It does mean that I can't really join in a group ride or get too much into randonneuring with a stop watch involved. If I can get down to 2.1 pounds per inch, maybe I will consider an Audax.
I rather suspect that if you want to get fast, you need to be doing intervals, to train for speed. You build up endurance by going out and riding a lot, but not so much speed.
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On a good day on my X Nomad unloaded with 1.6 Marathon Supremes on lightish! wheels. I get 12 - 13 mph on a 35 mile undulating circuit from home. Usually though it's about 9.5 mph. for the same route.
I much prefer the leisurly pace days; time to look around and take in the views.
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The more u cycle the easier it becomes, if andy wants to go faster he has to train faster its that simple .on every spin i do i take 2 energy gels 1 bounty bar 2 bottles high energy drink.
now most of the time the gels are never used but there there if push comes to shove.
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I live in hilly country and weigh 2.5 pounds per inch. Joel Friel says anything much over 2 pounds per inch, forget the hills. If you want to race! … If I can get down to 2.1 pounds per inch, maybe I will consider an Audax.
Perhaps I've misunderstood something here Jim, but I reckon you should just go and do an Audax!
I'm 6' and weigh around 84kg. I make that to be 2.6 pounds per inch, and rode my first (100km) Audax this summer. The time allowance was very generous, and even though I set off 50 minutes late (due to an alarm clock mishap) I had no trouble catching everybody up.
I did that ride on a classic lightweight British road bike (i.e. far more nimble than a Thorn), but plenty of people were riding it more slowly than me, on much heavier less-roadworthy bikes than my Nomad-X. I'd happily ride the Thorn next time…
I agree, incidentally, with other comments in this thread about speed and riding position. I'm around 2 mph slower on the Nomad (flat bars) when cruising along on the flat at constant speed, than I am on my road bike (drops, though I ride on the hoods). The riding position is the only thing that could cause such a significant difference. Leaning forward and resting my elbows on the handle bars increases speed noticeably for the same amount of effort (though it's neither comfortable nor safe).
I'm keen to try drops on my Nomad at some point. It's a short frame anyway, so I suspect they'd work really rather well.
I've just bought some Rat Trap Pass tyres for my Nomad (very thin-walled 2.3" slicks), but haven't fitted them yet. I'd also love a set of wheels with lighter rims (I've got Andra 30's, which weigh almost 800g each).
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Regarding aerodynamics, I use drop bars on most of my bikes. If I am facing a headwind, I usually find that by using the drops instead of the tops of the bars that I can increase speed by about 8 to 13 percent.
what's the story u only averaging 10mph your doing something wrong
I have been quite stuck at 10 mph on my Nomad. I live in hilly country and weigh 2.5 pounds per inch. Joel Friel says anything much over 2 pounds per inch, forget the hills. If you want to race! I just go 10 mph and don't worry about those old ladies with shopping baskets. It does mean that I can't really join in a group ride or get too much into randonneuring with a stop watch involved. If I can get down to 2.1 pounds per inch, maybe I will consider an Audax.
I rather suspect that if you want to get fast, you need to be doing intervals, to train for speed. You build up endurance by going out and riding a lot, but not so much speed.
I never heard of that ratio being used for cycling, but I never heard of Joel Friel either. I calculate to 2.48 but I usually tour with someone that is about 3.2 or 3.3 and he does ok on hills. The big difference between us is that he runs out of steam in 3 or 4 hours, I can keep going for hours longer.
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I have a number of Thorn Bikes. Until recently my main use bike was an old derailleur Nomad with a Raven Tour as back up. I recently bought a Raven Sport Tour and although about 1.5kg lighter than the Tour and about the same weight as the Nomad (think Sherpa) it is much faster than either. My average speeds on the 3 bikes for my local circuit is Tour 22kph, Nomad 25kph and the Raven Sport Tour 28kph.
I think as much of the speed increase is down to the sporty feel of the bike as much as any weight/aerodynamic/ rolling resistance improvement.
My advice is go for the lighter sprightly Mercury and you wont look back.
Andy
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Here's the Joel Friel post I was referring to: http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2010/04/power-and-weight.html
I have some Kojak tires squirreled away someplace, which I figure should bump up my speed nicely. But these days I have on Marathon Plus Tour! I seem to be doing mostly errands on the bike these days, on some nasty roads.
One big advantage of derailleur systems is certainly the practicality of keeping multiple wheels to swap in and out. Lighter rims would be fun as well as lighter tires.
Here's Jan Heine on speed and intervals: https://janheine.wordpress.com/2015/07/29/last-minute-pbp-prep-tabata-intervals/
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I think Huernie wants us to say yes to his original question! ive asked it myself many times. But I agree with the balanced comments above.
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what's the story u only averaging 10mph your doing something wrong
I live in hilly country and weigh 2.5 pounds per inch. Joel Friel says anything much over 2 pounds per inch, forget the hills.
I just worked mine out.....2.9lbs to the inch. Sounds like I need to stick to downhills. :o
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At 5'11" (71in) and 172lb, I am in there at 2.42(!).
I feel better and perform much better than when I was at 5'11" (71) and 155lb, or 2.18.
Surely muscle mass counts for something...especially the "muscle" mass in my belly? :D
After being really sick once, I was 127lb and 1.78. Didn't work very well for me.
All the best,
Dan.
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Go on Dan tell them all what you can average on your fully loaded nomad i promise i wont spill the beans. ;)
anto
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One big advantage of derailleur systems is certainly the practicality of keeping multiple wheels to swap in and out. Lighter rims would be fun as well as lighter tires.
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I have two sets of wheels for my 700c Long Haul Trucker. One set is heavy Mavic A719 rim for touring, 37mm wide touring tires on it. I bought the other set of wheels with lighter rims on an unbelievably clearance sale, I had some 28mm supple Continental tires on it that calipered at 25mm wide. But my bike computer proved that the fast supple tires on that bike were not much quicker than the 37mm touring tires, on a 2 plus hour training ride I might get home 5 to maybe 8 minutes faster with the narrower tires that with the touring wheels. But those skinny tires sure feel faster.
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On the weight issue, looks like I should give up bike touring and stick to canoeing and sea kayaking. Canoe and kayak, I generally find that I don't have to go up hills.
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Go on Dan tell them all what you can average on your fully loaded nomad i promise i wont spill the beans.
Aww, Anto...I am reminded of a quote attributed to our past American president, Abraham Lincoln, who was very tall for his time. When asked by a reporter, "Mr. Lincoln, how long do you think a man’s legs should be?" Lincoln replied, "Long enough to reach the ground."
When asked, "How fast should my average speed be when touring with a load?", I reply, "Fast enough to reach your daily objective, but slow enough to do so enjoyably. Wind, weather, and terrain will make all the difference".
Much depends on whether one is figuring running average (i.e. average speed while riding) or average speed overall (including stops; some computers stop automatically after a lag, then restart when you do. Others...don't). Stopping to take a lot of photos can really kill a running average. In fact, stopping at all really affects running average. This is one reason why -- when I want to make time/distance -- I stay on the bike as much as possible, eating on the bike and drinking enough on the bike to reach a balance so I can minimize toilet stops. I've even become pretty good at donning and doffing articles of clothing while still atop the bike. I slow down, but even that is much kinder to my running average than a full stop. When I reach stop signs I do stop completely and even do a toe-dab to document it for any watching members of the constabulary - but I make it quick! I once received a ticket for doing a full-stop track-stand instead of a "proper stop", so I take care with this.
There have been days when I have toiled all day to make 26km (on eroded bedrock and fresh, deep gravel on very steep logging roads in Oregon's Bohemia Mining District in the Calapooya Mountains) and against stiff 13kph headwinds as I churned though 13cm deep sand atop Hungary's dike-top roads (a day's efforts resulted in about 48km of forward movement). Sometimes, there's back-tracking in unfamiliar areas or you find a bridge is out, so average speed is really speed made good (forward movement between a starting and end fix). On the other hand, I made 200km pretty easily riding from Slovakia to Croatia one day while fully loaded and could have done another 100 if I had been well-equipped for night riding and hadn't wanted to see the scenery.
At home and when in good riding condition, I seem to average 17-21mph/~27-34kph on an unladen touring bike in relatively wind-free conditions on level ground. It doesn't seem to matter much whether I am on my favorite 14.5kg rando bike or my 20kg Nomad (dry weights). When touring with a load in similar conditions, I find I average ~15.6mph/25kph.
Regardless of which bike I use, I find my loaded touring speed takes an initial hit compared to my unladen speed, but comes around pretty quickly. Once I've been on the road awhile, my touring speed comes very close to my unladen speed for the same conditions. Same thing when switching from the rando bike to the Nomad for unladen day rides. The Nomad tends to be slower for the same recorded distance because it so often tempts me to try rough byways, poor gravel, and logging roads, so my speeds are objectively less.
Biggest determinants for me are where I go and the conditions, which can vary wildly in the course of a 200-400km day ride. Eugene is located in the southern end of the Willamette Valley, with open, flat farmlands to the north and mountains on the other three sides. If I go north, then I try to make as much northward progress as possible before the prevailing winds pick up at about 10:30am; they can be pretty brisk, but the tailwinds on my return sort of make up for the headwinds going out. If I go West, East, or South, then my speed depends on how many hills I encounter, how steep they are, and the road surface.
Sometimes, I have only a limited time for a tour, so I have to make a certain average if I am to cover the distance in the allotted time. Similarly, in my desert touring, I sometimes have to make a certain distance in a given time if I am to come out even on my water supplies. Then, I will push a bit, but mostly that just means more hours in the saddle and not a faster speed or higher average. It is not unusual for me to spend 17 hours in the saddle when touring in remote areas, with most of my rest breaks taken on the bike through changes in riding position, cadence, effort, or through coasting. This is where the many hand positions afforded by drop handlebars is a boon. My 400km day rides are usually completed within 24 hours including rest, food, and toilet breaks, but again it depends on terrain. My favored route has 53mi/85km of 5% upgrade, but the road surface is good, so it isn't too bad or slow. The longer I'm out the slower my running average, due partly to fatigue and partly to more off-bike stops.
And, sometimes, I just *like* to go slow, to savor the experience of being on a bicycle, or to enjoy the day, or see and appreciate things in more detail than when I go faster. There's much to be said for going slow, as well. I mostly no longer pedal downhill as I did when younger. Alone in remote areas, the risk:thrill ratio doesn't pencil out in my favor.
I've found wheel weight doesn't make much difference for me in steady-state riding once up to speed. Where I've found it really noticeable is when there is a lot of repeated acceleration -- commuting is one example, but also when starting and stopping repeatedly on really steep hills. It just takes a lot more effort for me to spin heavy wheels up to speed, and this takes a toll on my energy and average speed. Therefore, the Nomad is definitely slower in conditions where I stop/start frequently, due mainly to its greater wheel weight.
Mostly, I seem to go at familiar speeds/effort regardless of the bike. I think for me it is more a matter of being able to maintain my fast, light cadence in the same preferred gears than it is sheer speed. Also, I do get used to the scenery passing at a pretty consistent rate, so that may be why I fall into similar speed averages regardless of bike or load.
One more note: I usually run 2.0 Schawalbe Duremes on the Nomad, but have sometimes fitted the 1.5in Bontrager SR1 road slicks stolen from my tandem. This is a remarkably light and supple road slick for the money (cheap and cheerful; usually <USD$$22-25 each from Trek dealers). They feel faster and certainly accelerate more easily than the 2in Duremes on the same Rigida Andra Rims, but much of it is illusory. They are smaller in diameter, so I spin out of each gear earlier, and I must remember to reset my computer to compensate for the change in effective wheel diameter or I get the false impression I really am going faster(!) and have suddenly become SuperDan. ;)
Thinking back to Huernie's original question, I think a Mercury will certainly *feel* faster than his Koga, and there is likely enough weight savings to result in an actual increase in speed, perhaps due as much to lighter wheels/tires as to less overall weight. I think the larger diameter of 700C road wheels better bridge potholes and roll a bit easier on rough roads, all things being equal. If it were me and I wished to spend about USD$50 on the experiment, I'd buy and mount a pair of 1.5-1.6in road slicks on the Koga and see if I could feel the difference. Do be aware, however, the narrower, lower-profile tires will require comparatively higher pressures than fatter tires, so the ride is destined to be somewhat harsher.
All the best,
Dan. (...would much prefer to slow down and chat with a riding partner than ride faster alone)
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great write up Dan i was right all along more miles make cycling easier ;)
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I have found this a very reassuring thread - I'm not the only one who rarely exceeds a 10 mph average on a bike make as light as possible!!
My Sherpa is virtually identical to the Mega Brochure C2. Weighs a little over 12kg including pedals, rack, ready to go. My previous bike was a Ripio, a more MTB oriented frame / geometry, weighed 15.5kg. The Sherpa, with lightweight wheels and tyres, feels 10 times more lively, especially as Dan refers to in traffic, and with frequent stops / starts for whatever reason.
I get up hills (quite a few 20%+ gradients around where I live) faster, in at least 1 higher gear than before, and the bike just feels better on a long plod up a hill.
Yes, I too sometimes feel aggrieved at the lycra clad bums disappearing ahead of me, but most of them are 30 - 40 years younger than me, or older ones who have cycled regularly all their lives. I often catch them up when they are fixing their gears or a puncture.
I was expecting my average speed to be significantly higher, but in fact it is only around .5 mph / 1 mph max higher. Downhill speed is much the same (governed by posture, and a caution derived from my career on a Spinal Injuries Unit - dealt with lots of cyclists . . . .).
The bike is very much more enjoyable to ride, and I am able to stay on the saddle longer, so I am very content.
Important to be aware that if you do 'go light' (e.g. lightweight wheels, which as people say make a massive difference to the feel), load capacity and probably rim life will be compromised. You just have to make a choice right for you.
Lewis - Sheffield
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The bike is very much more enjoyable to ride, and I am able to stay on the saddle longer, so I am very content.
Yep, that about nails it, Lewis. My Raven is a reasonable 14 kgs and change, unloaded but with rack & lights. This past winter, I installed a set of quality middleweight rims (Mavic XM719s) to go with my 26 x 1.6 Marathon Supremes. This made some reduction in total weight from the previous Velocity Cliffhanger rims, but a lot of difference in the feel of the bike. Both bike and its new wheels are capable of carrying a touring/camping load, if not an outback/expedition load.
This past summer, I found myself riding comfortably in the 10 - 13 mph range with a touring/camping load, depending of course on all the variables of wind & terrain. Unloaded and in hilly country, I'm usually at the upper end of that range. From what Mercury riders say, I'd guess that bike would feel nippier than my Raven, and maybe I'd be a little faster on it as well. But, I wouldn't want to give up the Raven's touring/camping capability. Maybe in 10 years' time, I'll switch to the trick lightweight go-faster front forks?
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Thanks all for the comments and advice. I am currently running 700x35 Schwalbe Kojak's so I don't think I can get any weight savings on the tyres. My wheels are proper heavy aka 'bombproof' (23000 miles with no repairs/servicing required and they have ridden some brutal roads). I could undoubtedly save there, but I am reluctant to replace quality wheels before they are done. Perhaps someone could donate a 'spare' Rohloff and SON hub for the cause? :D
Thinking more about the wheels I reckon that they are overkill for someone of my weight. Any suggestions for 'strong' light-weight 700c rims?
Cheers
Andy
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i have handbuilt wheels on my road bike 105 hubs dt swiss spokes (36) mavic sups rims conti gator skins hardshell tyres Class set of hoops.
just use your heavy wheels for loaded touring.
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Any suggestions for 'strong' light-weight 700c rims?
Andy,
My favorite pair of all-'round lighter 700C randonneur and touring wheels are built on Phil Wood 126mm OLN freewheel hubs (rear), 36-hole 3x DT Swiss 15g spokes, and Mavic MA-2 rims. They have held up fine for touring with up to 25kg of load on logging roads and have rarely needed retruing (I just trued a 1mm wow out of the rear after being forced into a curb by a right-turning car at speed). For my 78kg weight and my bike's 14.5kg weight, they have held up fine, using 32mm road slicks at a reasonable 85psi/5.87bar.
The old MA-2 rims are 13.5mm between the beads and 20.3 outside the sidewalls and weigh about 473g. They are no longer made but similar rims are available. I would suggest a wider rim if you regularly use the wheels for touring, but for me it has been a good all-'rounder.
Perhaps something similar would work for your needs in 26in or 700C, depending on need and built with a cassette rear hub. Beyond component choice and application, I've found the key to long lasting true-running wheels is high, even spoke tension.
If you live in an area where roads are frequently gritty, you ride in the rain, brake a lot, *and* use rim brakes, then any rim will become lighter over time as it wear. Beware going too light to begin with, as the thinner sidewalls can compromise service life. See: https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/05/09/rim-weight/ To counteract this, I use Kool-Stop Salmon brake pads, which are very rim-friendly and cause little wear compared to others on the market.
Best,
Dan.
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My lightweight tourer has Mavic Open Pro rims, these weigh 435 g, and are still available. I used 28 spokes front and rear, as I had a good quality "New Success" rear hub in 28H. Home built, with high spoke tension. Not too much dish on the rear wheel, as the rear hub was meant for 7/8 speed and I took spacers off the drive side to use it on my old frame with 120 mm rear spacing. I use old compact 6-speed freewheels, and a triple half-step setup on the front.
28 on the front is fine, perhaps not such a good idea on the rear, but it has been OK for me (about 80Kg) for 3,500 kms.
When I ride this bike I don't take much luggage (saddlebag, one or two 1 litre bottles in frame-mounted bottle cages). And I keep to proper roads rather than taking interesting "short cuts" on tracks and paths.
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Lighter rims, fewer spokes, they do not make you much faster but they feel faster. It is the supple light tires that actually make you faster.
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I moved on from a Thorn ExP to a Mercury - similar size frame, but the Mercury both feels and measures measurably faster. Although all up weight is lower on the Mercury, the main difference in feel and speed is the 700X25c tyres, which kiss the road, rather than the ExP's high durability and slow rolling 38mm's.
For the riding I do, they work fine!
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Hi Everyone,
My experiences....
I have a Raven fitted with 26x1.75 Schwalbe Marathon Pluses and Andra rims. The bike rides well balanced and feels very safe and secure. Last year on my LeJog ride with front and rear panniers all loaded up the bike came in at 32.6 kgs. Over the 890 miles I averaged 10.6 mph. I also use the Raven as my everyday ride mainly for commuting, with just the rear panniers and all my bits and pieces for work etc the bike weighs around 20 kgs. My commute is 49 miles round trip which I ride three times per week and can average 13 mph.
I also own a Mercury - my "best bike". It has drops, Hope hydraulic disc brakes, DT Swiss rims with 700x32c Schwalbe Marathon Supreme's, the bike weighs 12.25 kgs. For sure the Mercury is a different animal when compared to the Raven; it rides superb, is very responsive with super quick handling. On my commute on the Mercury I can easily average 18 mph for the same effort as riding the Raven. I have embarrassed lots of carbon fibre weight weenies on the Mercury (and when they catch up) only to be asked - Wow what bike is that? I've never seen one of them before! Is it a single speed?
So to answer the original question - "Will a Mercury make a noticeable difference?" - I would say "Yes"
But please bear in mind the cost - to build a Mercury is very expensive (my build would be around £3800). You could do lots to alter your bike and make it lighter for a fraction of the cost of a new Mercury.
That said - if you can afford it - go for it. In my opinion the Mercury is the best bike I have ever ridden.
Pete.
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Say Pete any chance you could post a few photos of your mercury love to see your set up thanks.
jags.
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Hi Jags,
Check the Member's Gallery under "Another Mercury" posting, 2nd page, 6th item - there's more information and photos there.
Pete.
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;) cheers will do.
jags
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Thanks again to everyone for their thoughts/experiences. I guess the only definite way for me to assess any noticeable difference would be to take a trip down to Bridgwater and ride a Mercury for myself. Of course, once I've travelled from Glasgow it might feel like a wasted journey to leave empty handed... ;D
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just dont tell the wife and if you have to just tell her it was only 150 quid. ;)
don't think it will improve your speed any, but it will certainly do your head the world of good.
the way i look at these things( if i had the money) is i could be dead in a few weeks so enjoy while i can .
cars just don't interest me but bikes man oh man i love top of the range quality bikes.
get your glad rags on and head off to bridgewater and buy that feckin bike before u change your mind.
jags.
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I have a Mercury as my weekend warrior day rides bike.
It has rather short chainstays and I am not sure about heel clearance with large touring panniers.
Mike
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That seems reasonable - it is not intended for 'heavy' touring with large panniers. It will be fine for credit-card touring, and the OP can keep his Koga for camping expeditions.
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I sense the electricity of a new bike purchase in the air!
Won't be long now.... ;)
All the best,
Dan.
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Ha! Well I put much thought into it and decided on a different route and firmly made my mind up that I would go for an Audax Mk3. Seemed a sensible choice for a quick bike that could handle a bit of luggage when required. My research has also peaked a significant interest in having a shot at some Audax riding (after watching this clip who could resist? http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/bbc-show-documents-1300km-cycling-event-scotland-video-147537 )
I Phoned up today with bank card in hand to make the order and spoke to Andy B. I explained I would like a Mk3 rather than the newer Mk3R as I wanted the forks with lo-loader bosses. "Why?" was the answer. Well lengthy conversation ensued and guess what? That's right, back to square one; he firmly recommended a straight bar Mercury for both light touring and fast (well fast for me anyway ;D) Audaxing.
Decisions, decisions...
Andy
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Agony! :-\
Thoughts are with you...
All the best,
Dan. (...who thinks you won't lose either way)
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it's great isn't it ;)
your best bet would be the clubtour imho.
fast bike carry all the luggage u want yeah that would be my choice,u don't need an audax bike to ride an audax good legs will do it every time.
anyway no matter your choice have fun. 8)
jags
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The Club Tour is a good call Jags. It will do the lot.
But being a little like a jack of all trades it isn't the fastest bike out there but is really comfortable doing it.
My friend has a dropped bar Mercury and I have a Club Tour Mk4. We ride together and we keep up with each other easily enough, but we are not out there for speed. We are both dropped on hills by other friends with light carbon or titanium audax bikes. We catch them up on the downhill.
He also has a Koga with Rohloff which I have ridden and I think is a beast of burden and I am noticeably slower on it.
I think you would notice a difference in speed on all three Thorns compared to your Koga.
I would be asking myself do I want a Rohloff or derailleurs?
If the Koga is Rohloff would I be happy going back to derailleurs. A lot of people can't go back.
If you are happy with both then I'd go visit Thorn and try them all and go on routes that have some hills. All three bikes will be fast on the flat but it's when you get to the hills that you can see difference in speed. Bridgwater is relatively flat, but there are hills, so you need to be pointed at them.
I can feel the agony, most of us have been through it and some still go through it every time a new bike comes into our mind!
Steve
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Well put Steve, a great summary. Anyone like to comment on the ride difference between a mk3 audax and a Mercury other things been equal? The audax being designed for a faster ride while the Mercury has broader uses, or have I got that wrong??
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One other bike to consider (not that you need to make the decision more difficult) is one of the last of the line Raven Sport Tours. SJS are selling some off now at excellent prices - you end up with a very similar bike (albeit 26") to the Mercury at about half the price.
I went down the line of buying an Audax as a light day ride bike instead of my Raven Tour or Nomad but found the pressure needed in the skinny tyres compared to the 1.75 to 2" made the ride much less comfortable. I run 1.5" on my Raven Sport Tour and it makes a perfect compromise between fast and comfortable.
Andy
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The RST is indeed an excellent bike. I love mine as a brilliant all rounder. I think I prefer it to my RT but that was also a great ride. I'd like to try an audax bike to see how different it is and if I could justify one as a summer bike. As with all bikes the build is really important especially wheels and bar styles.
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Say Andy have you seen this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTMkhH7T5uY
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Hi Jags
I hadn't seen the video but I do know what sadly happened to this particular fair lady... :'(
http://www.seanconway.com/uploads/1/3/2/4/13241475/6519376_orig.jpg?0
Andy
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He also has a Koga with Rohloff which I have ridden and I think is a beast of burden and I am noticeably slower on it.
I think you would notice a difference in speed on all three Thorns compared to your Koga.
Ah, perhaps it isn't just my skinny legs!
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wow that looks bad obviously he didn't get to finish his tour. :o
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Yeah, that's what happens when you get hit by a truck. He did finish the ride though, on another Mercury. ;D
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Wow, what a minimalist achievement! I'm maximally impressed.
Glad Sean survived his prang. The whole project is a very good advert for Mercury + Rohloff, for sure.
Impressive trick gear, too: I thought I had some lightweight stuff, but this is at another level of barely-noticeableness.
I tried a larger version of his ultra-light Klymit, but found it didn't work for me. Then again, I'd guess I'm 40 lbs heavier than Sean. Not sure I'd fancy riding across Canada without some decent bug protection, either -- in the form of a mesh tent inner, not lotions. But he mentioned riding in warm countries.
No fenders/mudguards -- a problem in rain & mud? Less of an issue in Oz and similar, I guess, but in a tropical rainstorm on a dirt road?
Thanks for posting this, Anto -- I hadn't heard of his great adventure.
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o be honest John i think he's a bit of a header must be the mad irish blood in him :o
anto
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I thought as much, Anto -- better to have you say that than me, tho' ;)
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;D ;D ;D i'de forgive u ;)
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Order placed! I'll post pictures on arrival.
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Order placed!
Wonderful! For...what?
I presume the Mercury, but an Audax Mk3 figured in the discussion at some point. Did it make the cut?
All the best,
Dan. (...who is eagerly awaiting the photos)
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I'll give you a clue Dan; it's a Gunmetal colour! ;D
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...it's a Gunmetal colour!
Doesn't help! Both Audax and Mercury are currently available in Gunmetal.
Ah, me. The suspense continues...! ;D (wouldn't want it any other way) ;)
All the best and all congratulations!
Dan. (...who is *really* looking forward to the photos now! :) )
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me too bet its a clubtour 8)
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Big box should arrive tomorrow.... ;D
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Fantastic enjoy every pedal stroke stay safe .
im still betting it's a clubtour but i'll can wait until tomorrow to find out for sure.
be sure to post loads of pic's .
jags.
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Well, I still can't say if a Mercury would make a noticeable difference but an Audax Mk3 certainly does! I can categorically state that the days of being overtaken by old ladies with shopping baskets are officially gone.
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Congratulations! Those are sweet bikes, for sure!
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excellent enjoy and stay safe.
anto