Thorn Cycles Forum

Community => Non-Thorn Related => Topic started by: in4 on June 24, 2015, 09:38:10 am

Title: Brooks alternatives
Post by: in4 on June 24, 2015, 09:38:10 am: Is anyone using a saddle that is not a Brooks? Accepting that a Brooks seems to be the saddle many riders choose I was wondering whether there is something of the slavish acceptance of the self-perpetuating myth to be recognised here. Do we choose a Brooks because, well, we always have done and everyone else does the same? Do we choose a Brooks because its been around for a very long time; arguably unchanged over X years? Perhaps we have a fondness for traditional saddles and get a little misty-eyed for cycling days of yore?
I'm painting with a very broad brush here but I was musing that surely, given the passage of time, advances in design, construction and materials, good alternatives to a Brooks are to be found.
I have no axe to grind either way and am perfectly happy with my Conquest but I did wonder if I were to consider an alternative what might it be? Apologies in advance for any perceived heresy on my part, you may burn me at a stake of your choosing in due course, metaphorically that is :) ;)
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: lewis noble on June 24, 2015, 11:44:33 am: Hello! I use a basic 'default issue' Thorn Velo. Suits me better than anything else. In the past I have tried Brooks, Rido I think it was and others, but the Thorn Velo suits me fine. Lewis
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: ians on June 24, 2015, 12:42:37 pm: I have a Rivet saddle at the moment - not many miles yet, but I'm happy with it so far. It has longer rails than my B17 which I needed when I bought my Sherpa.

They are supposed to be waterproof. We'll see.

ian
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: Peejay on June 24, 2015, 01:36:24 pm: +1 for Rivet saddles.....

I have a Rivet Pearl on my Raven - in my opinion, the best saddle ever! having done around 3000 miles on it.

I had been on Brooks Pro's all my life and didn't think it could get any better till I had my sit bones measured by a friend who works in a bike shop using one of these fancy measuring machines, it was just a bit of fun as he's always getting on at me being an old codger who rides leather saddles. However, he said I needed a 170 mm saddle (Brooks Pro 160 mm). I thought he was just trying it on to get me to buy another saddle having assured me 10 mm would make a difference. I tried a B-17 but it was too wide down the middle, then eventually bought a Rivet Pearl which is 170 mm wide and narrow down the middle. From the first ride it was unbelievable how much more comfortable the Rivet was.

As Ian has said - the rails are longer to give a better range of adjustment - and if you get one in your had you will be amazed at the build quality and attention to detail. Rivet do make other saddles which are available in different widths.

Pete.
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: DAntrim on June 24, 2015, 01:50:39 pm: I've used the WTB Rocket V saddle for years and found it very comfortable, indeed still have it on the bike I use for nipping into town.

Having never tried a brooks till last year, I took an instant like or should I say a 'part of me' did and never had any 'wearing in' issues from day one. Now I wouldn't use anything else except for nipping into town.

Carlos
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: jags on June 24, 2015, 04:40:13 pm: Fizik alanti. ;)
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: Andre Jute on June 24, 2015, 05:58:48 pm: If you mean leather saddles, the Dutch Lepper is every bit the equal of the Brooks in quality. The Lepper is the standard saddle on the bikes of the Swiss citizen army, for instance, and known to last forever. Sometimes available as Swiss Army surplus, but the prices are pretty near discount retail. Here's a bicycle dealer who stocks Lepper saddles at attractive prices:
http://en.hollandbikeshop.com/bicycle-saddles-seat-posts/lepper-saddle/
but check the postage at the bottom of the page under "Sending" -- reasonable to the UK, too much to Ireland and the States and Australia.
(http://en.hollandbikeshop.com/images_product_responsive/products_large/698479.jpg)
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: John Saxby on June 24, 2015, 06:28:17 pm: The Rivet saddles look very attractive in every way in the ads I see -- I've never seen or held the real item, however.

My Brooks B17 Champion, dark brown with spiffy copper rivets, remains my standard: comfortable right out of the box, and as it enters its 4th season, I never think about it, except to admire it (frequently).

When I purchased the Raven in 2013, I bought some parts from Spa Cycles, and included a black Nidd saddle, a B17 copy. It was inexpensive, less than £30. It is now installed on my Eclipse, so is used for day rides. It matches the grey-and-black colours of the bike quite nicely. At first, I thought that maybe I'd made a mistake--the leather is thicker and stiffer than on my Brooks, and it seemed board-hard at first. Gradually, though, it's breaking in, and is quite comfortable on rides up to 75 kms (the longest I've done so far.) I expect it will be entirely OK after this season, though I doubt it will ever be as comfortable as my Brooks.

My city bike, a Norco Monterey hybrid, now has the Velo saddle which was original equipment on my Eclipse in 2003. I changed it for the Brooks in 2012, because the stiff sponge rubber in the Velo had become spongy sponge rubber after almost a decade of use, and had become uncomfortable after 6 hours or so of riding. Works fine on short rides in the city, though. I have had to patch the leatherette covering with black Sugru at the rear of the saddle (where it had cracked from repeated compression as the sponginess got worse). Magic stuff that it is, Sugru has renewed the saddle for its daily chores.

Expect I'll have to enjoy the Rivet vicariously, from other riders' reports -- barring some catastrophe, I can't see myself renewing either the Brooks or the Spa/Nidd anytime soon.
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: phopwood on June 24, 2015, 10:28:58 pm: Just out of interest how much longer are the rails on a rivet than a brooks.

Peter
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: macspud on June 25, 2015, 02:05:41 am: I use a Selle SMP good for avoiding numbness, also an Adamo.
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: in4 on June 25, 2015, 08:54:06 am: I came across this interesting Sella-focussed blog entry; its useful regardless of which saddle you choose.
https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/09/all-about-smps/
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: ians on June 25, 2015, 03:18:45 pm: Quote from: phopwood on June 24, 2015, 10:28:58 pm
Just out of interest how much longer are the rails on a rivet than a brooks.

Peter

Peter
The Rivet Pearl has 90mm rails. IIRC the B17 has 75-80mm - but I no longer have one to check.

ian
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: mickeg on June 26, 2015, 03:15:00 am: Is your question about any saddle, or are you looking for list of leather saddles from others?

I have a bunch of Brooks, mostly Conquests. But the last time I bought a complete bike (instead of building up one from parts), was in 1973 and that bike came with a Wright leather saddle. So, I have a bit of bias to leather saddles.
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: in4 on June 26, 2015, 09:58:01 am: I was wondering if we all stayed with conventional wisdom and chose a Brooks, or indeed a Brooks type and if, by doing so, were missing out on new, innovative saddle designs. Some great responses so far. A quick rummage round on the net has thrown up a huge number of saddles of varying designs, construction and materials; each made with a particular use in mind. It cannot be said that saddle designers lack imagination. :)
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: Andre Jute on June 26, 2015, 05:34:06 pm: Quote from: in4 on June 26, 2015, 09:58:01 am
I was wondering if we all stayed with conventional wisdom and chose a Brooks, or indeed a Brooks type and if, by doing so, were missing out on new, innovative saddle designs. Some great responses so far. A quick rummage round on the net has thrown up a huge number of saddles of varying designs, construction and materials; each made with a particular use in mind. It cannot be said that saddle designers lack imagination. :)

Uh-huh. I rode for years on a Cheeko90, a sculpted seat rather than a saddle. I don't know where you would get one, and you can't have my old one because I might want to use it again one day.

(http://probike.rs/image/cache/data/sedista/3701059-1000x832.jpg)

I stopped using the Cheeko because the material covering wore out, and bought a Brooks B73 because it was on sale at SJS for a fifty quid, which I thought was worth an experiment. I kept the Brooks because it is comfortable and hardwearing, not because it is a Brooks. I don't mind provenance, but it has to be backed up with utility and quality and decent aesthetics.

(http://www.brooksengland.com/images/cache/shop/shop_saddles/classic_saddles___city___transport/b73/colors/b73_black_1_w800_h600_vamiddle_jc95.jpg)
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: jags on June 27, 2015, 03:50:43 pm: my french buddy rides a saddle like that Andre 1st photo. he's a hell of a good rider.
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: Andre Jute on June 27, 2015, 11:39:12 pm: If he's married to the Cheeko90, and he knows where to get another one, he should lay in a spare, becauses that ribbed cloth on top wears out. I've never seen the seat offered by a British dealer; mine came from Piet Hagemeier in Holland. When I searched for a new one a couple of years ago I found -- nothing.
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: revelo on July 29, 2015, 06:13:18 pm: Selle SMP TRK model for me. This saddle is less comfortable than the Brooks B17 after an hour or so of riding. The discomfort is under the sitbones, due to lack of blood flow. The discomfort disappears completely within a few minutes of getting off the saddle. The B17 was never uncomfortable for me, even when brand new, but I was concerned about long-term damage to the nerves of the genital area, causing eventual impotence. As I wrote elsewhere, this damage is supposedly like the fraying of a multi-stranded rope. You notice nothing until the last nerve strand is broken, at which point the damage becomes very evident in the form of impotence. It will typically take years for the broken nerves to regenerate, or they may never regenerate.

While sitting on the Selle SMP TRK and reaching my hand underneath, it is pretty obvious there is a lot of soft tissue hanging down into the opening in the center of the Selle SMP saddle. While on the B17, that tissue would necessarily be compressed in some way. Perhaps not damaging in my case, since the B17 was never uncomfortable for me, but based on that multi-stranded rope theory of damage to the nerves, I don't want to take the risk.

My comments re comfort of Selle SMP versus Brooks B17 are based on one tour of about 1200 km for the Selle SMP and eight tours totalling over 20,000 km for the Brooks B17. For just riding about town, it makes no difference, since the Selle SMP takes an hour or so to get uncomfortable.

The Selle SMP TRK also weighs less than the B17 and is vinyl coated so doesn't have to be protected from rain. There are also some leather coated Selle SMP models. These are less wide than the TRK model, and so might be more or less comfortable than the TRK, but the leather coating means they would have to be protected from rain, which is a downside. The leather models also cost more. So I'm not planning to switch from the TRK anytime soon.

There is a tendency for some people in the English-speaking world to talk of Selle saddles. Selle is Italian for saddle and there are many Italian makers of bicycle saddles which include Selle in their brand or company name. So be sure to write "Selle SMP" when referring to that specific company/brand name.

[edit to note that b17 was never UNCOMFORTABLE for me]
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: Bill C on July 30, 2015, 01:35:22 am: i bought a velo orange No5 nos £25 a while ago, laminated underneath to stop water ingress from no mudguards,
it's hard as nails, bought it in black and that's just some gunk smeared over the top (washed it off with a meths soaked rag) and it now looks nicely aged it squeaks like hell, 20 miles and it feels like 50 but i think it will be fine if i ever manage to break it in,it's almost identical to a brooks flyer but with longer rails

I'm thinking of trying one of these next http://www.sheldonbrown.com/real-man.html (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/real-man.html)
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: jags on July 30, 2015, 11:13:01 am: ;D ;D ;D
sheldon must be right ;)
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: John Saxby on July 30, 2015, 02:42:19 pm: Quote
I'm thinking of trying one of these next http://www.sheldonbrown.com/real-man.html

Make sure you get a QR on your seatpost clamp, Bill. Doubt that anyone would try to pinch your Sheldon Special, & the QR would make it easier to brandish the saddle to discourage an advancing bear or a cheeky raccoon ;-)
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: Mike Ayling on August 13, 2015, 10:41:20 am: I have San Marco Rolls saddles on all my bikes:

Thorn Raven tandem
Thorn Mercury
Surly LHT
Old steel MTB non suspension used for shopping etc
Fixie.

Mike
Title: Re: Brooks alternatives
Post by: Swislon on August 13, 2015, 07:37:21 pm: I am trying a Brooks Cambium C17 on my Club Tour.
I feel more on top of it than the B17 where I feel "in it" if that makes sense.
It is not hammocky.
So far so good, pretty comfortable. It actually feels more comfortable later in the ride than the beginning which is unusual.
I haven't done more than 40 miles at once on it yet though.

The B17 on my other bike feels a little odd when I sit on it but thats soon forgotten after a couple of miles.

Steve