Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Luggage => Topic started by: Kuba on February 26, 2015, 11:51:08 am
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Finally, I'm about to complete my new XTC build using a bare metal frame I got in last year's SJSC sales. A pic of the finished bike will soon be on here, but I need advice on one aspect beforehand.
This will be my only bike with SLX transmission, strong Sputnik/Deore wheels and 1.6 Marathon Supremes. I'm not planning any expeditions, just lightweight touring for now, and wanted to experiment with the following set up for luggage:
-Thorn low riders in front, 2-3 kg each side max.
-Super C saddlebag.
-Possibly a small frame bag such as Revelate Tangle or Alpkit's equivalent.
-AND I consider using Salsa Anything cage to carry a >1kg tent, or a bivy bag etc. on the frame - would keep it under 1kg at all times.
The question is, whether Thorn advise against using these cages with reasonable loads (sub-1kg)? I've read it voids frame warranty with some manufacturers.
Also, how good are these cages? Has anyone here used them?
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The Salsa Anything Cage is designed for three bolts, not two like most water bottle cages. Some Salsa forks are designed so you can put that cage on each side of the front fork to haul small stuff sacks or drybags. If you get one, make sure you do not buy the earlier version, they redesigned it. Blackburn makes a similar cage called the Outpost Cargo Cage.
There are 1 liter water bottles out there, thus the frame should not have any problem with a 1 kg load on the two water bottle cage bolt mounts. (I do not work for a bike company, I am offering my opinion here.) I would not be surprised if the problem is not so much the weight on the cage, but the likelihood that the cage and stuff in the cage is easier to put leverage on the mounting if the cage or the load in the cage impacts on something in a crash or otherwise pushes on the mounts with more leverage than would normally occur with a water bottle in a water bottle cage.
I have not used the Salsa or Blackburn, but I have been thinking I might try one.
Let us know how it works out.
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I would try the Monkii Gorilla cage it's far better than the Salsa cage and it will fit with just 2 bottle cage mounts.
Bob
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Thanks for both replies, most helpful as I didn't know about the Blackburn or Monkii designs.
Mick, what you say about the load capacity makes sense, after all I carried 1L water, fuel and wine bottles on my earlier XTC without any problems. I suppose some frame makers are suspicious of cargo cages as you can put well over a kilo in there, but I wouldn't, so I guess problem solved.
Had a quick look at both and Monkii Gorilla seems to be the best option as it can be mounted with 2 or 3 cleats, and also looks very neat. Bob - have you tried it? Many enthusiastic reviews out there but just curious if you have any first-hand experience too.
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Hi,
I've not used the Gorilla cage but have the smaller one and it is very good. May get the Gorilla in the future.
Bob
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Hi Kuba
i have the salsa anything cages bought a pair ages ago also got a pair of salsa enablers (long story,semi fat build/project, alfine rear, single speed front hub for redundancy, not finished yet ::) )
i haven't used them yet but i am using 2 minoura 1.5l bottle cages on my sherpa (1.5kg of water each)
because of the size of the bottles i could only use one bottle cage boss on each cage
so i bought a set of these http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/elite-vip-bottle-cage-clamps-25-50-mm-diameter-prod13892/ (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/elite-vip-bottle-cage-clamps-25-50-mm-diameter-prod13892/) really good bit of kit
i had to fit a small stack of washers under the bottle boss to get the cages sitting right,
they have been fitted 5 years used regularly with no probs
can't see any reason i couldn't do the same with the anything cages by using one strap and the 2 existing bottle boss's, keep the weight low and no worries
btw the anything cages haven't been redesigned to my knowledge it was some of the salsa forks that folded under braking (the 3rd boss on the legs weakened the forks) pretty sure i'm ok as i haven't read anything about the enablers being recalled.......... think i'll google before i build the bike just to be sure lol
btw the rear mudguard is sorted now,that's the lbs for you ::)
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Hi All!
Salsa did revise their original Anything cages after a some breakage at the welds. The revised model looked very similar and was also made of aluminum rod. It is still in production.
They have recently introduced the Anything HD cage, made of reinforced thermoplastic. I am intrigued by it and may make the jump if I can determine whether the spacing of the three bolt holes will allow me to fit bottles to my Nomad in the same configuration as my present setup. Salsa take care to explain the three holes on the present setup can be used with two bosses, either as bottom two or upper two, but three provide maximum stability. Caveat ahead!: Care must be used to loop the webbing straps around the frame tube as well as thread it through the cage and item being carried. This is critical to the success of the design. It is also a reason why I am exploring my options further. I would like to avoid sawing the straps through accumulated alkali grit and scratching my paint.
More about the Salsa Anything HD here:
http://salsacycles.com/components/category/accessories/anything_cage_hd
http://salsacycles.com/culture/introducing_the_anything_cage_hd
http://salsacycles.com/culture/product_process_the_anything_cage_hd
I currently use three Blackburn B-52 "Bomber" bottle cages. They have been flawless in use, but have one drawback: They are optimized for one particular bottle size and shape of 1.5l bottle. Bottled water used to come in pretty uniform containers, but now (at least here in the US), bottles have a wide variety of shaped for product differentiation on store shelves. This has me looking at alternatives to the Blackburn going forward.
I used Monkii cages on AndyBG's Raven Tour last summer. He has had great success with them and likes them very much. Me? Notsomuch. I had nearly constant problems with them. I found when it was wet, the bottle did not stay attached to the cage because there was so little friction between the plastic tray/velcro and a wet PET bottle. This meant when it was rainy, it was impossible for me to remove the bottle with the cage still attached as intended. Because of this, replacing the bottle was a fiddly process and the bottle was not held securely because the velcro could not be done up tightly enough. Worse, the cage stopper (bedstop) that supports the bottle's bottom proved too flimsy under the weight of a full bottle on rough roads and allowed the bottle to slide downward onto the frame or hang into space. This happened with 1.5l PET bottles Andy supplied and ones I replaced along the way and also with much smaller bottles (0.5l and 1l). In the photos below taken in Belgium, you can see the bottom bottle still secured by velcro but slipped down past its bedstop. The bottle on the seat tube has also sunk past its bedstop to rest on the downtube, and the downtube mounted bottle has come to rest against the one on the seat tube.
Based on my 4+ months' continuous touring experience with the Monkii Cage, I think I would instead choose the Gorilla Cage from the same company -- at least for large bottles on rough roads and in the wet. In fact, it is on my short list of cages to try if I abandon the Blackburn, and seems to have addressed all the problems I experienced with full bottles in the Monkii Cage on Belgian cobbles and the sometimes very rough roads of Eastern Europe. It includes every suggestion I had for it; I've yet to try the new design but hope to soon.
Just a note from my past experiments: If a bottle cage's two or three mounting points aren't exactly where they need to be, it is easy to make an intermediate "mounting shoe" from steel or aluminum strip stock to offset the cage just enough to clear a frame tube or neighboring bottle. I will probably do this myself if I change from the Blackburns, which have many mounting holes to choose from.
A final note: Zéfal make a "Magnum" water bottle of conventional diameter, but tall enough for a 1l capacity. I have had very good luck using two of these in conventional (nylon, CatEye) cages attached to my steerer. If one already has conventional cages and just want a bit more capacity, the 1l Magnums are quite a boost over the usual ~0.5l and ~0.75l bottles. They can leak if the lids are not screwed very tightly, but the trick there is to hold the top and the very bottom and twist in opposite directions. The lid can't be secured adequately if the bottle is held in the middle.
All the best,
Dan. (...who seems to have water, water everywhere on his bikes -- and often needs it all)
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I use the BBB XL fuel tank bottle cage
http://bbbcycling.com/accessories/bottle-cages/BBC-15 (http://bbbcycling.com/accessories/bottle-cages/BBC-15)
It can be adapted to take various length bottles (1-litre, 1.5-litre) and potentially other cylindrical-shaped loads.
It is a bit of a pain to adjust because in its native state it has to be removed from the frame-mounted bottle bosses to adjust it.
But I have replaced the adjusting screw with a bolt that can then allow adjustment without removal.
Being aluminium rod based I think it would also make a good starting point as an adaptable mount.
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Salsa did revise their original Anything cages after a some breakage at the welds. The revised model looked very similar and was also made of aluminum rod. It is still in production.
Hi Dan
missed that completly, I knew they had some troubles with forks, didn't realise how many forks though till i googled it a minute ago
think i'll ebay the cages, just in case ;D
anyone heard about any trouble with the Enablers? Mt tura's are looking better all the time ::) who needs 2 back wheels anyway ?
atb Bill
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I'm told that the Monkii V will hold my 95mm diameter steel water bottle. When full with water my bottle weighs 3kgs. Isn't that rather a lot of weight for m5 bottle cage bolts?
http://www.cyclemiles.co.uk/shop/cycle-products/monkii-v-cage-bicycle-bottle-cage/#.VPAovmbq4s0
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Hi Ian!
*Three* kilograms?
That's a lot of weight for water and a container that size. It would indeed be a lot of weight on two bottle bosses.
I've long run my Blackburn B-52 aluminum rod cages and 1.5l PET bottles on two 5mm bolts with nary a problem on any of my bikes, but my 1.5l bottles weigh 1.5kg when full + container and cage weight.
All the best,
Dan. (...who remembers "a pint's a pound the whole world 'round" and a kilogram for every liter)
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Interesting, Monkii cages seem great but not when mounted under the down tube, and much better for carrying drybags and cargo then plastic bottles. Which is bang on for me! I'll be getting the Gorilla and will let you know how I get on with it. For water bottles I'll use my old Profile Design ones as they take 1L bottles and can be had for about a fiver. 8)
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Ian has yet another 40w moment; and not the first this week. Reading the correct kitchen scales dial might help me post the correct figure of circa 1.5kgs. In my case one green bottle is quite enough!
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For water, I just carry the extra bottles in my luggage. Carry up to three bottles on the frame, two additional in luggage gives me about a US gallon.
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Just a note from my past experiments: If a bottle cage's two or three mounting points aren't exactly where they need to be, it is easy to make an intermediate "mounting shoe" from steel or aluminum strip stock to offset the cage just enough to clear a frame tube or neighboring bottle. I will probably do this myself if I change from the Blackburns, which have many mounting holes to choose from.
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Off topic here - I did this on my Long Haul Trucker lower cage. The LHT has a very high mount for the cage under the downtube, thus larger bottles do not fit there. I took some steel strap, drilled three holes in it. Mounted the cage on the lower two holes, then mounted it to the frame with the upper two holes. In the photo you can see the upper cage mounting is bolted into the lower of two frame brazeons. The velcro strap on the top of the bottle not really needed, I just used it to keep the bottle from touching the front fender when I hit bumps. In the photo, the steel strap is a little hard to see because it is obscured behind the shifter cable that runs parallel to it.
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Dan. (...who remembers "a pint's a pound the whole world 'round" and a kilogram for every liter)
...unless you are in the UK or other places using imperial measurements, where a pint is 20oz or 1 1/4 pounds
:D :D
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..unless you are in the UK or other places using imperial measurements
Yet another reason I need to relocate! :D
All the best,
Dan.
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Dan. (...who remembers "a pint's a pound the whole world 'round" and a kilogram for every liter)
Quite true-ish, unless it's not a US pint of course..... ;)
...unless you are in the UK or other places using imperial measurements, where a pint is 20oz or 1 1/4 pounds
:D :D
Ish, an Imperial pint is 20 fl oz but a fl oz of water does not weigh 1 oz
1 fl oz = 29.5735296 ml = 29.5735296g
1 oz = 28.3495g
;)
That's why the metric system is so much more simple to use, lol.
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That's why the metric system is so much more simple to use, lol.
I've been pining for it seemingly forever, but have doubts it will "happen" here ('Merka). Until it does, we'll stumble along as one of the two remaining (Luddite) nation-states who have rejected metrics.
<sigh> Pet peeve of mine.
All the best and yours in liters,
Dan.
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Just a quick update on the Monkii Gorilla cage... I put it on my XTC a couple of weeks ago, the fuller information on the bike (and rides) is here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=10723.msg78067;topicseen#msg78067
The Gorilla is ace, many thanks to Bobs who first brought it to my attention. It cost me over £20 quid but well worth it. I mounted ut on the down tube with just 2 bosses and carried a 1kg tent plus Zefal pump in it. Remained rock-solid over 180 miles on tarmac and some rough roads too. In hindsight, I would have specified a third cage boss before the bike was painted. Oh well.
The plastic frame of the cage is not very stiff so without the third boss it rests on the down tube, but I put a bit of vinyl film where it touches the frame to prevent it rubbing off the enamel.
I would think it's perfectly capable of supporting up to 1.5kg with two bosses, as per its spec. With three it might handle even more.
Yet to see how it performs over months/years to come. There's little to go wrong, if anything the mounting system may become less tight with time. I'll watch that and update the thread should anything to wrong. So far seems bang on.
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P.S. I noted Dan's comments on Monkii cages above. The Gorilla also is definitely NOT a good solution for carrying bottles, large or small. To strap things securely in it, the stuff has to be somewhat fluffy (tent, drybag, rolled waterproofs etc.).