Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => General Technical => Topic started by: Matt2matt2002 on November 03, 2014, 08:22:25 pm
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I've been using Humpert comfort bars for a year or so.
The covering has recently thinned out and torn in a few places.
This, coupled with being unable to sell my spare Thorn Mk2 Comfort bars made me think of trying out the Ergon GP5 grips.
I managed to track down a pair on eBay and they arrived today.
Am I correct in thinking they just push onto the ends of the Thorn bars?
I haven't opened the packet completely. The outer bar pulls off the packaging but the second bar end is inside.
There doesn't appear to be instructions.
I don't want to open the packaging I case they are unsuitable/ not what I want, and I need to sell them on.
Anything I should watch put for when moving the Rohloff changer from one bar to the other?
Thanks
Matt
Corrected title for better searching. -- Dan.
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Hi Matt,
I tried a set of GP5 grips. But did not get on with them. (And still have them, if anyone wants to make a bid for them, but they are rather scuffed)
Yes they do slide onto the bar ends, but the bar ends then clamp onto the bar and onto the main body of the grips.
Pictures are probably the most information:
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Hi Matt,
Yes, you are correct. All Ergon GP grips install the same way - the grip itself slides onto the bar, and the bar end then is positioned and tightened. (The package always comes with instructions and a real scale template).
Things to check:
1) Is the bar the correct diameter? (They are often REALLY TIGHT, but will go on with some gentle encouragement from a New York Persuader, otherwise known as a rubber mallet. ;))
2) Measure the length of bar to be covered by the grip accurately (it's on the package), mark it on the bar and make sure the inside edge of the grip is flush with the mark. For safety's sake, the bar end must be positioned correctly to have sufficient grip on the bar to avoid rotating or worse.
Like Ian, I tried the GP5, but found it was too much bar end, and replaced them with GP2 (BTW, the grips on all models are interchangeable.) The main advantage of the GP5 IMHO, is the opportunity for mounting mirrors, etc. on the big horns. :)
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Matt, how do you get on with your comfort bars, I have looked at them a few times in the past. Do you have the adjustable version.
Peter
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Hi folks.
What a pig of a job.
First problem was getting the old bar ends off. ( the curved end parts )
One side came off after I had pealed back the covering and found the locking nut inside the bar end.
Other end was jammed so had to hacksaw it off.
( cue naughty words )
Then fitted one Xtr brake. No problem
But then had to remove the Rohloff shifter fom the other end.
And if course all my Allen keys were anything but the 2.5 mm required.
Rats.
So I have had to abandon the exercise until tomorrow when I can buy a set if keys with the 2.5 mm on.
Also....
Does the brake mech go on first and then the shifter?
If so, then there will be a lot of reach to make when braking.
If shifter first then braking will be easier but shifting will need more hand movement.
Thanks for your comments so far.
Re the old bars....
Non adjustable. One end sawn off so unable to pass them on.
Grips? Gosh. I do hope they are suitable.
The old bars were good for giving a variety of hand positions but the padding was never up to much.
On reflection perhaps I should have kept them on and re padded/ tape.
Matt
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Here's my set-up... I hope you get to a good solution after all the fuss. These things somehow are never as simple as they ought to be!
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/kukulaj/Nomad/IMG_2255_zpse65c850f.jpg)
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Nice picture. Thanks.
Yes. Even the simplest of jobs turn into minor projects.
I didn't even bother to put on my latex gloves at the start, thinking it would be a quick 15 minute job! Finished up with gruppy hands.
Looking at your picture....
No problems grabbing the brakes? Looks like you have a bit of a reach?
Guess you can't have both the shifter and brake equally to hand.
Many thanks for the photo. Hopefuuly when I buy my 2.5 mm Allen key tomorrow and finish the job, I'll post a few snaps of my own.
Matt
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Funny, the reach to the brake levers does look awkward. But I don't notice it at all!
I do think about bar ends sometimes. Now and then I will actually just hold the ends of the grips as if there were bar ends, just to get a little variety in hand position. Not very comfortable though! But usually I will just stretch my arms, most often one at a time, but ... I love my Nomad! - stretching both arms up is a delight, and the bike is stable enough I can ride that way over bumps and up slight inclines. But only when I have good visibility and no traffic anywhere around!
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Big problem!
I have removed the x2 2.5mm grub screws from the shifter but cannot budge it off the handle bars.
Am I missing something?
I can't see any other thing to loosen.
The bars have been cut at the other end when I removed the curved part if the bars that was jammed.
So I'm really stuck.
Any advice, most helpful
Matt
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Furniture polish is great for getting grips off. Might be worth a try even if you do smell of lavender afterwards!
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sure looks like just two clamp screws ought to do the job.... As I recall, I just loosened those to rotate my shifter along with the brake levers to get them comfortable. But the exact shifter design keeps changing. I did notice when I changed my shifter cables that my shifter didn't quite match whatever document I had found on line. Just little details.
http://www.rohloff.de/uploads/media/8206_Twistshifter_en.pdf
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Thanks for that. Very handy.
However, I decided to hammer.out the bar that was inside.the shifter.
It was a pig.of a job and in the end.I only succeeded.in buggering up the shifter and its still not.off the bar!
The shifter won't rotate now so I know it's truely.kaput.
Local.bike.shop is ordering a replacement and new cables.
Booked in for next Thursday.day before my birthday.
So something to celebrate.
I can't think why it was so hard to remove. Can't have been grease before putting on?
Thanks again for your I the rest and help.
Matt
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Ouch, that really sound frustrating! The grease idea is interesting. This kind of story certainly does motivate a person to ponder how to avoid such a problem!
I wonder, too, about the diameter of the bar to which it had been fitted. If the diameter was a tad too big, maybe the shifter would have been sort of jammed on. Just an idea.
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Thanks Jim.
I can't put the bike in to the shop until next week so I'll take a few snaps of the situation/ damage.
Yes, the bars could have been a tight fit to start with.
By using the brake fitting and the old bars I was able to hammer out the bar within the shifter. But not completely.
With all the hammering, the inside of the shifter got chewed up and now will not turn at all.
Just have to look on the bright side that I'll finish up with a new set up and gear.
Although I have been more than happy with the Raven, having bought it second hand I am not sure of what bits are of what age and wear. Know what I mean?
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haha! Here is a funny story....
Must've been 1986 or thereabouts. My Honda Civic... oops, the exhaust got blocked up somehow. I drove it slow to keep the temperature down but I shouldn't have driven it at all. End of car.
Somebody at work, her husband was selling a 1973 Volvo. Started right up, solid car for sure. Decent price. So I bought it.
Well, within a week the husband has left town, end of marriage.
Then the car starts burning out tail lights etc. Hmmm. Take it to the shop. Somehow the voltage regulator has been taken out of the circuit. Actually the entire wiring looks to have been creatively reengineering. A maintenance nightmare! Turns out one of my crazy buddies from work helped do this, along with the amazing disappearing husband. The car can't pass inspection and it'd cost like three times the price I paid for it to get the wiring back to standard.
Ha, then I get a phone call from some bank, asking did I buy a red Volvo from this fellow and do I have any idea where he might be? How is that car, anyway?
Can you imagine but fast forward maybe 15 years and I ended up hiring that crazy work buddy at a different company. An unmanageable genius! There is indeed such a thing as *too* creative. A kind of insensitive impulsiveness, one could say. This Lord Byron stuff... well I guess he was a bit of a handful himself!
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So, here's where I'm at...
Awaiting a new shifter from SJS.
I went for the new shape
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rohloff-14-speed-handlebar-twistshifter-light-for-speedhub-500-14-wave-design-8206-prod33788/
BTW, how do i put that link under a word?
Know what I mean? Everyone apart from me can do it!
The local bike shop here in Aberdeen, confusingly called Edinburgh Bike Shop, had said they could supply it to me - but at £20 more than the SJS one. Nice of them to tell me that and they are quite happy for me to buy it and to fit it.
I have booked the bike in for Thursday. I may have the brake cables renewed since with all the mucking about, they have been damaged.
Here are a few pretty pictures since i haven't been able to get out on the bike.
It all started when I thought I would treat myself to Ergon ends.
I already had a spare Thorn comfort bar.
The foam padding was getting thin on the Humpert ones and although it can be renewed I had heard good reports of the Ergon ends.
Tackling the left hand end first - the bend was a real pig to remove and as expected the right bend was worse.
It would not budge - so i had to saw it off.
I then found that the shifter was 'welded' on. I checked with SJS that it was only fixed with the 2 Allen key grub screws that I had removed.
Then had the bright idea of hammering out the bar end from inside the shifter.
Not a good idea,
a - it didn't work - the shifter is still stuck on the bar
b - I have buggered up the shifter
Looking from the front of the bike.
You can see the end of the bar poking out of the shifter
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OE931kDy7gU/VF5GYBu07CI/AAAAAAAAGno/r84cvlaamXA/w574-h765-no/DSCF0221.JPG)
The bar has been hammered down into the shifter but will not come out completely
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fH3Sb60eUR0/VF5GzRJBh0I/AAAAAAAAGoA/WrDeHWf9zvA/w958-h719-no/DSCF0224.JPG)
Here you can see the damage I have caused, and the shifter wont turn now.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Z0X3t0MjLzg/VF5GqdQ26nI/AAAAAAAAGnw/h4e5yGtTpF0/w574-h765-no/DSCF0223.JPG)
A sorry tale. But may I ask what other folk would have done faced with bars that would not slide out from the shifter?
Also...
When ordering the new shifter from SJS I asked if there would be any problem fitting the old cables.
They said everything was the same apart from the 2 2.5 Allen grub screws having been changed to Torx head bolts.
That's a new one to me, but I looked them up and can see the advantages.
But wonder why change from the Allen screws? I know its not something you take apart every day but surely the Allen are more common than the Torx?
Just a thought.
Fingers crossed for the delivery of the new shifter before Thursday.
Matt
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Hi Matt!
The last thing you need right now is criticism, so please know this isn't intended as that.
I just keep thinking...did you possibly miss undoing the clamp screws? The two screws shown in the opening still on the video here are the ones that need undoing: http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/twist_shifter/
The good news is the damage is isolated and all replacement parts are readily available, so no real harm done. I'm sorry you ran into trouble and I know how frustrating such things can be.
Still...it'd be real interesting to see if that shifter can eventually be removed. Did you try a penetrating oil in-between the handlebar and clamp early on in the process?
All the best and all encouragement your way,
Dan.
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Hi Matt!
Above, you asked...BTW, how do i put that link under a word?
Know what I mean? Everyone apart from me can do it!
Ah! Here's how (on this Forum)...
Usually, when composing, you can click on the little "world" icon ("Insert Hyperlink") and then paste your URL between the brackets or, you can paste your URL, highlight it, and then click the icon to make it a hyperlink. Either will work. I have to add a space so you can read it as code here, but the result looks something like this: [ url=http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/] http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/[ /url]
To make a word into a hyperlink, you have to do another step...format it so it looks like this (sans the extra spaces I added so you can see it here without it executing):
[ url= http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/ ]SJSC[ /url ] In other words, add a closing bracket "]" after your link, then add the word you want to link between that bracket and the closing statement.
The result should look like this:
SJSC (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/)
There are various plug-ins (mods) that can be installed to the Forum to add this functionality semi-automatically, but the decision was made by my predecessor to keep the Forum as basic as possible to avoid conflicts and problems that can result from mods. Having seen the results on other Forums, I'm inclined to keep it simple for the foreseeable future until I can test all permutations of mods for unwanted interactions. Some work perfectly well till the Forum software is updated, then break the lot.
Best,
Dan.
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Thanks Dan.
No probs with any of your comments any time!
Yep, sure did undo those 2 pesky bolts.
Those were 2.5 Allen, right?
Now replaced with the Torx ones on the new shifter.
Why do you think they have done that?
Yep. Sure tried the oil trick. Let it seap in but no movement.
At this stage I had sawn off both end curves of the old bars!
Any other thoughts?
Matt
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Matt,
The only thing I can think of is the clamp may have galvanically corroded to the handlabars. Sweat or salt air might've helped, but both surfaces are anodized. I have to admit I'm at a loss at present, but hope it doesn't happen again to you or anyone else. Very, very unfortunate.
I suppose it is possible the shifter got moved so far in on the 'bars, the corner caught the bend in the 'bars and breached the anodizing on both.
Hmm. Still thinking...
When you undid the two bolts, did the lower clamp half fall away or become loose? Did *anything* happen?
All the best,
Dan.
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Nope. Nothing happened when the 2 bolts came away.
Looking at the video still you kindly posted ( and I played the whole YouTube clip )
my arrangement is different.
I'll try to take another snap or 2 tomorrow.
Your idea about the fusion is probably correct.
I'll be interested in what the bike shop say when they see it next week
Matt
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So, here's where I'm at...
Awaiting a new shifter from SJS.
I went for the new shape
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rohloff-14-speed-handlebar-twistshifter-light-for-speedhub-500-14-wave-design-8206-prod33788/
BTW, how do i put that link under a word?
Know what I mean? Everyone apart from me can do it!
Use the "insert hyperlink" button (right next to the "insert image" button on the posting menu), or type out the tags yourself. Paste your link url after an = symbol, and place the words between the url tags.
eg (url=link address)text identifier(/url) - but use square brackets rather than the curved ones shown here.
I'm a bit intrigued just why you needed to saw the end off the left bar in the first place - "the bend was a pig to remove". How so? You mean sliding it through your stem? Most stems these days are 2 or 4-bolt units with a completely removable face-plate. Or was it the brake lever that could not go round the bend?
The shifter is a disappointment, and I would be keen to hear of any resoluton that finds the cause. Must check mine as Thorn sent out a warning about their Flat Track bars and the possibility of corrosion around the shifter (picked up on just one or two bikes they had been working on) and I have the same original attern shifter as you. But not so relevant with your Humpert bars.
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My shifter looks just like yours, Matt. Those screws do look more like grub screws that just dig into the handlebar, rather than clamping bolts that engage a separate part of the shifter to reduce the overall circumference. My screws have hex heads rather than torx. I have noticed, too, how my shifter doesn't match the various videos I have seen posted!
Some strange chemical bond really does seem like the most likely explanation for what happened between your shifter and handlebars. Scary/ugly for sure!
I don't think you will be able to reuse shifter cables. The problem is that the cut end of the cable needs to fit into these tiny holes over at the hub end. My bike has the EXT box while I think yours uses the internal mechanism, but I think the internal mechanism also has a similar way to end the cable. You insert the cable end into this tiny hole and then tighten a grub screw that mashes into that cable end, fraying it. You can get a nice fresh clean cut cable end into that hole, but once the grub screw has frayed it, you'll never get it back in that tiny hole again.
Anyway cables are cheap enough so just as well to swap new ones in while you've got it all apart. I replaced mine when they got all frayed inside the shifter. That's when I discovered how my shifter is different than the ones in the videos! But the job isn't too dreadfully difficult - even I could do it!
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/kukulaj/Nomad/IMG_2258_zpsa06e2e53.jpg)
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Thanks JimK & Dan
Yes, Jim, I think we have the same shifter.
Here are some more of the mess/situation.
Dan, I am sure there are only 2 'grub' screws on the shifter. Apart from these 2 there are only the 2 Torx that hold in the cables.
Take another look at these pictures.
Someone asked why I had to saw off the ends?
The bars are in 3 parts. The end curves had to come off for me to remove the brake handles and the shifter on the right.
I managed to remove the curved part on the left and looking inside it did appear corroded.
sure enough, when I went to tackle the right side, it would not budge. So I hack-sawed it off.
I then tried to slide off the shifter after removing the 2 Allen key grub bolts - but no movement.
That was when I started to hammer it out.
( after trying the oil trick )
Here is a shot showing one of the grub screw holes
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-X_MY4nrkG1w/VF-P2cY3hNI/AAAAAAAAGpM/2R64Qg-k79k/w958-h719-no/DSCF0213.JPG)
Here is the other one
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uZJm552DkqM/VF-QCjuDgCI/AAAAAAAAGpU/wDmMwF8LyJA/w958-h719-no/DSCF0214.JPG)
This shows the shifter as far as I could 'shift' it!
It has moved an inch or so.
No corrosion showing so look forward to seeing what the bike shops boys turn up
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oFxniScAiLo/VF-QOnFPakI/AAAAAAAAGpc/a6v0NeneCrY/w958-h719-no/DSCF0216.JPG)
Re cables Jim - yes a new set will be fitted by the shop since they are doing the shifter for me.
Many thanks for all the interest.
I'll report back at the end of the week.
Very frustrating since I have just fitted brand new sprockets front and rear, plus a chain and chain-glider.
All awaiting a test ride.
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Yes, Matt, the clamp mechanism definitely looks different from mine.
The good news: The replacement should upgrade you to the latest model, with more visible numbers and a wavy grip.
Best,
Dan.
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I believe the clamp mechanism is that the two grub screws push onto a shim-style clamp. You can see this fairly clearly in your second photo.
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I believe the clamp mechanism is that the two grub screws push onto a shim-style clamp. You can see this fairly clearly in your second photo.
Interesting. I'll see what the guys at the bike shop turn up.
They will have to removed the damaged shifted in order to remove the brake mech.
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Yes, Matt, the clamp mechanism definitely looks different from mine.
The good news: The replacement should upgrade you to the latest model, with more visible numbers and a wavy grip.
Best,
Dan.
Phew! At least I now know I have done my best at removing it.
The nightmare I had, involved you telling me something along the lines of,' and then remove the hidden bolt......'
Yep, I look forward to the new style shifter.
And giving the new sprockets, chain and chain glider a work out.
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You know how they say "ignorance is bliss".
With this thread you have disrupted my bliss.
I am now no-longer ignorant of the following:
Oldest Rohloff "Twistshifter": http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rohloff-14-speed-handlebar-twistshifter-for-speedhub-500-14-8200-prod10972/ (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rohloff-14-speed-handlebar-twistshifter-for-speedhub-500-14-8200-prod10972/)
Newer Rohloff "Twistshifter": http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rohloff-14-speed-handlebar-left-hand-twistshifter-light-for-speedhub-500-14-8207-prod27180/ (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rohloff-14-speed-handlebar-left-hand-twistshifter-light-for-speedhub-500-14-8207-prod27180/)
Newest Rohloff "Twistshifter": http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rohloff-14-speed-handlebar-twistshifter-light-for-speedhub-500-14-wave-design-8206-prod33788/ (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rohloff-14-speed-handlebar-twistshifter-light-for-speedhub-500-14-wave-design-8206-prod33788/)
I have 2 Rohloff-equiped bicycles in this household
One with the newer-style (but not *newest* style grip shift)
And the other with the older (oldest?) style grip shift.
I have definitely loosened and moved the newer one.
I have *just* losened the older one (and it seems to rotate fairly freely around the bar once loose)
But I am not at this stage able to translate it along the bar (it being trapped by an Ergon GP1 grip + bar-end mirror on one end
and by brake lever that is tight-ish up to a bend in the Thorn Comfort Bars.
But ... one of the allen-key grub-screws was very noticably dry-threaded and required rather more torque than I was happy applying to initially loosen it.
I was just wondering if Matt had been really unlucky and actually snapped the grub screw and thus only removed part of it, leaving the remainder still tightly gripping the shifter to the bar?
Just a thought (and now a concern for me).
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Good thoughts all, Ian.
I'm eagerly awaiting the "shop autopsy" from Matt!
Best,
Dan.
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Thanks chaps.
Very interesting.
Bike at the workshop now so unable to view shifter as I write.
However I am 99.9% sure both retaining screws came out cleanly.
Good thinking though.
Matt
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I'm curious, my bike DIY is limited to changing chains and brake blocks.
In reply #22, middle photo (and first photo) is the paintwork/metal bubbled where it emerges from under the shifter?
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That wasn't my picture but when I shifted mine as far as I could there wasn't any evidence of corrosion.
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Bike back today.
Just had time for a very short spin before dark.
The new set up with the Ergon comfort end and Thorn bars gives the bike a very err... sedate posture.
I like it.
But will much enjoy the many small tweaks to the set up I will undobtably make.
Pictures to follow.
Shifter looks great. Its the new version/ edition.
Matt
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Yay, bike's back! ;D
Looking forward to the photos and your further ride impressions, Matt.
Best,
Dan.
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Many thanks for everyone's input, comments and interest on my little err... project.
Raven back safe and a short 6 mile test run yesterday. Weather here in Aberdeen UK - awful, hence short ride.
Shifter would not come off the old bars. I tried and failed. The bike shop had to cut the bars.
Looks like some kind of metal fusion has caused the problem.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-iJxSB_rV-HI/VGjS2xnQQQI/AAAAAAAAGrg/qjvxvMTWut0/w958-h719-no/DSCF0220.JPG)
New set up with the Thorn Mk2 comfort bars.
Feels much wider than the old Humpert bars and gives me a more up-right sitting. Like the 'soft' hand-grips.
I was concerned about being able to fit a mirror but my old one can be strapped around the end bar fine.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FGLgiZMrOkI/VGjRv1vc64I/AAAAAAAAGqw/n7Epniav5qU/w958-h719-no/DSCF0213.JPG)
A better view of the left side.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-p32grvfG2NE/VGjSBEZPd_I/AAAAAAAAGq4/sszB3ppGb5k/w958-h719-no/DSCF0215.JPG)
And the right
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/YJE-HCQ8muUGuNyQDQLHTveWTyr51lM3vkl8dkbRSgE=w958-h719-no)
Close up of the new shifter.
I find it more grippy - if that's the term. Easier to twist n shift.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-u8iKePkDLZU/VGjSvwi1aII/AAAAAAAAGrY/hCoPSDg-kkA/w958-h719-no/DSCF0218.JPG)
Off topic but...
I took Dan's advice about the curly wrist strap for the Defender key - but still managed to loose it one day in the supermarket - so it now has bells on. A gentle tinkle follows me as I ride.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ozNfXPiELXw/VGjSjds121I/AAAAAAAAGrQ/-FgY4cTVn9g/w958-h719-no/DSCF0217.JPG)
And finally...
A present from my daughter on my 61st b/day last week.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-G0WO63PwTJQ/VGjSX5WVtuI/AAAAAAAAGrI/h9ydM2YYD-Y/w958-h719-no/DSCF0216.JPG][ Present])
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Terrific followup, Matt.
Now, you're all set for your big tour!
All the best,
Dan.
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Your bar ends are on upside down by the way... ;)
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Are you kidding?
What with all the coming and going you could be right.
Before I took the bike into the shop I quickly clamped the bars on.
The old bar bits were hanging on to the left brake/ cable and the right bit of bar and brake and shifter.
The bike shop just carried on fitting the new shifter.
I guess they thought that was his I wanted it!
What do I need to remove the shifter? Is it a Torx fitting? What size?
Oh dear, this is never ending!
Matt
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The grips are ok, its just the bar ends have been put on the wrong side of the bike, the allen key bolt should be pointing at the floor not the sky.
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You only have to remove the bar ends and swap them left for right, the allen key bolt should be on the underside. No need to remove the hand grips or shifter.
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Seat cover put a smile on my face ;D
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Phwee!
Thanks. I had visions of me having to..........
Start all over again.
Right. So tomorrow I'll swap those pesky bar ends and try to put in 30+ miles.
The saga continues.
Matt
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I just figured that's how you preferred them, Matt. No worries; you'll get there, and soon enough!
All encouragement your way.
Best,
Dan.
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Hi Matt --
Glad to hear that your bike is back on the road. I think one of the most useful abilities of a mechanic is x-ray vision, so that you can see why something isn't coming apart. It can be very frustrating.
Just because those bar ends are designed to be mounted in a certain way doesn't mean that they must be. You might find that they are more comfortable mounted upside-down (although probably not, after all they are designed to be mounted a certain way). But it is good to know that they do fit upside-down, in case someone finds them more comfortable that way.
Let us know how the new Chainglider is working out. To get the Chainglider on my Nomad, I had to trim some of the plastic away from the rear portion of the Chainglider to get it to fit past the seat stay. Did you need to do that? And how is the noise? I've never been able to make mine silent, but I have read of people on this forum that talk about the almost-silence of it. I want to know if this is a goal that is still achievable for me, or if I should stop fussing with it. There is nothing worse than the nagging feeling that a situation could be made better by just fussing a bit more with the setup. It never ends...
Thanks for the update and photos.
- Dave
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Let us know how the new Chainglider is working out. To get the Chainglider on my Nomad, I had to trim some of the plastic away from the rear portion of the Chainglider to get it to fit past the seat stay. Did you need to do that? And how is the noise? I've never been able to make mine silent, but I have read of people on this forum that talk about the almost-silence of it. I want to know if this is a goal that is still achievable for me, or if I should stop fussing with it. There is nothing worse than the nagging feeling that a situation could be made better by just fussing a bit more with the setup. It never ends...
Dave, I've had a similar experience with the Chainglider, and I've come to the conclusion the problem is the thickness of the Thorn chainring. My next drivetrain is still a ways off, but I will change to a Surly steel ring, and probably go from a 16T rear to 17T (although I'm reluctant to lower my gear range any further than it already is...).
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Dave, I've had a similar experience with the Chainglider, and I've come to the conclusion the problem is the thickness of the Thorn chainring. My next drivetrain is still a ways off, but I will change to a Surly steel ring, and probably go from a 16T rear to 17T (although I'm reluctant to lower my gear range any further than it already is...).
I'm using a Surly stainless-steel chainring. My noise is coming from the back end, where the Chainglider fits around the sprocket. The noise from the front end is barely perceptable. I am using a 38T chainring and a 16T sprocket.
(Sorry for hijacking your thread, Matt.)
- Dave
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No problem Dave.
I haven't time to upload the pictures from today re the Ergon bar ends etc.
However on the test ride today I did pay attention to the Chainglider since its new, along with the x2 sprockets and chain.
So....
I had to listen hard for any noise at all.
I have a Surely on the front, 38T and a new Rohloff 17 on the back.
Maybe there was a slight noise from the rear. The chain is new but not done more than 30 miles so I don't think it has 'slackened off' in any way yet. I think after a settling in period they require a little tightening?
So I don't think it was rubbing.
The gearing is new to me. I had a 40T on the front and 16t rear.
Today I was unable to go faster that 20 mph on the flat.
Normal?
Matt
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The gearing is new to me. I had a 40T on the front and 16t rear.
Today I was unable to go faster that 20 mph on the flat.
Matt,
I am running a 36x17 setup. I typically cruise at 17-21mph with my fast, light cadence.
When pursued by wolves, bear, the occasional mountain lion and the odd dachshund, I find I can manage 25mph or so. :D
What is the limiting factor on your speed? Is it cadence? Do you feel under-geared?
Best,
Dan.
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Dan
Under geared.
Plenty of puff left in the tank but cannot spin faster.
Matt
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Here are the ratios for 38T or 40T chainring with 15T, 16T, or 17T sprocket:
If Matt is doing 20mph using 38T/17T, here is his speed with these ratios at the same cadence:
| 38 | 40 |
15 | 22.667 | 23.860 |
16 | 21.250 | 22.368 |
17 | 20.00 | 21.053 |
Here is the increase in speed compared to 20mph (38T/17T):
| 38 | 40 |
15 | +13.33% | +19.30% |
16 | +6.25% | +11.84% |
17 | +0% | +5.26% |
Using a Chainglider does limit the choice of chainring size, since they do not make a Chainglider for a 40T chainring. I changed from 40T/17T to 38T/16T to fit my Chainglider. Note that those ratios are almost identical.
If you want to go faster, you could try a 16T with your 38T, but that will take you only halfway to your previous 40T/16T ratio. If you want to go to the smaller 15T sprocket, then you would be very close to your 40T/16T ratio. The disadvantage of the 15T is the shorter expected life of the sprocket and chain due to increased angle of the links as the chain goes around the smaller diameter sprocket.
- Dave
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Dan
Under geared.
Plenty of puff left in the tank but cannot spin faster.
Matt
Matt,
Tackling this problem from a little different direction, I see you're using platform pedals with no mechanical connection to the pedals through your shoes except friction.
This can surely make it harder to achieve a high spin 'cos there's no way to really retain your foot-pedal connection at at a high cadence, and you have no way to pull up on the backstroke to pedal "roundly". Switching to plain old toe clips and straps or a clipless pedal-shoe combo can make a real difference in both pedaling speed and efficiency, even with the same gearing.
I'm really happy to use my ancient Detto Pietro racing cleats and quill pedals with toe clips and straps on some of my bikes...and equally happy with my Shimano MO88 SPD shoes and T400 platform clipless pedals. The latter have a feather-light multi-angle release, yet have always held securely even while "honking" --standing out of the saddle -- uphill. Both setups give me the connection I need to achieve my preferred, knee-saving high cadence. Unlike the racing cleats, the SPD shoes allow me to walk easily and safely and were really the only shoe I used off-bike for extensive tourist walking on last summer's trip.
Of course we're all different in our preferences and needs, but perhaps something like this might be an alternative to consider instead of boosting the high end of your gearing. Moving up the top end will move the whole range upward, requiring you to up the low gear as well.
All the best,
Dan.
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I run a 42-17 with a Chainglider ready to be fitted soon. Well, when the thick Thorn chainring wears out - it gave way too much friction in the Chainglider when I first fitted it. I have a Surly SS ring to replace it.
The 42-17 is the same as 40-16.
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Many thanks for everyone's interest and contributions.
Here are a few snaps to show the latest situation.
Bar end right way up!
Thanks Dave.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3E9LZTo_ONI/VHL7BG21g0I/AAAAAAAAGwA/NBs4GV9_ZKs/w958-h719-no/DSCF0213.JPG)
View from the top.
The bike shop have fitted the brake lever between the 2 cables from the shifter.
I cannot recall my previous set up.
Is this normal / acceptable?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5oIXHdbrw9o/VHL7zeZo6QI/AAAAAAAAGwo/Zt66NSNqV-4/w574-h765-no/DSCF0218.JPG)
Another view showing the brake / cables setup.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_HsQFIVqksw/VHL7EM5YpII/AAAAAAAAGwI/q7e5JoJzgoM/w958-h719-no/DSCF0215.JPG)
With the left brake positioning, the cable bends slightly against my bar bag.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UEwVRFue7pg/VHL7Nt7QCXI/AAAAAAAAGwQ/GrllrymwNiA/w958-h719-no/DSCF0214.JPG)
I wanted to loosen the fitting and turn the brake downwards slightly in the hope the cable would then clear the bar bag.
However the shop have tightend the fitting so hard, I am unable to loosen it. ( both sides as it happens).
I am off to the shop this morning to have them loosen the brakes slightly
I guess I may need the extension bit for the bar bag if cables still rub?
Thanks again folks
Matt
Who feels he is almost there....
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Hi Matt!
Didn't you once have a Thorn Accessory T-bar fitted?
One of those (available in two sizes, 55mm and 105mm forward extension) can place the 'bar bag a bit lower...your headlight might shine over the top of it then. Leaves your handlebars free and carries the weight a bit lower as well and in the longer size might well push the bag ahead enough for cable clearance. The T-bar (either size) would replace some of the spacers on your steerer.
Just a thought in case you hadn't considered it. :)
All the best,
Dan.
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The brake cable between the Rohloff cables is entirely OK - the normal way to set it up.
The bar-bag does rub against your brake cables. Rotating the brake levers down a little and the bag-mount up a little bit may resolve this. I have a similar set-up with no bag-extender in use and they sit fine. I do not like the idea of the bar bag slung out too far forwards so have foregone the extender.
Re your headlight, give consideration to a dynohub light-set longer term, and possibly this type of light mount in the short term. It will take any handle-bar mounted light:
(http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/Lights/Speed-on-fork-mount.jpg)
It is a B&M bracket and the light placement at the fork crown, below your handlebar bag. This will give the best height for the light and ensure you get a good beam onto the road. It is generally always quite well visible to approaching traffic as long as your bag des not hang too low. The bar-extender mount above the bag may get the beam over the lid, but the lid will always cut off the bottom of your beam, meaning that you will not get any beam onto the road surface - generally not a problem around town (maybe), but a real disadvantage if the light is bright enough to give a good beam and you are riding on darker roads (eg. country lanes).
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However the shop have tightend the fitting so hard, I am unable to loosen it. ( both sides as it happens).
I am off to the shop this morning to have them loosen the brakes slightly
Around here, the common practice for mountain bikes is to tighten the brake levers onto the handlebars only enough so that they don't move around, and no tighter. The idea is that if you crash your bike, the levers will move on the bars rather than break. I can't see any advantage to making the levers really tight, so I've followed the practice of making them only tight enough that they don't move.
- Dave
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Hi Matt,
Dan's suggestion above worked for me with my Raven.
I used the 105 mm acc bar as a mount for my Arkel h/bar bag. (Have 2 acc bars, the shortie and the long 'un, on my steerer -- the upper short one holds my rohloff shifter & my bell.)
Although I have a headlight (powered by the dynahub) mounted below the h/bar bag, I sometimes fit a flashing headlight on my bars. And, I have a bracket for my GPS if I need it. Putting the h'bar bag on the acc bar frees up a lot of space on the bars.
David's advice on not overtightening the brake lever mounts is well taken. Be prepared for them to loosen over time, however, and hence to tighten them on the road at some point. My Tektro drop-bar levers are a lot less convenient than the Shimanos on my other bike -- but maybe yours are more accessible.
Nearly there, as you say -- good luck!
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FWIW, here is an old photo of my bar bag set-up. I think the brake cables do get pushed up against the bag a little, but I can't see it being a problem. It's a Carradice bag.
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/kukulaj/IMG_1005.jpg)
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Many thanks folks. Lots of good info to take in.
Shop slackened off the brakes but as advised, I'll keep an eye on them.
The bar bag still rubs the brake cable so I will explore the T bar options.
I recently bought a GoPro and wondered about the clamping arrangements to the handle bar.
I think Dan demonstrated his set up a year or so ago?
Any chance of a link?
Matt
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I recently bought a GoPro and wondered about the clamping arrangements to the handle bar.
I think Dan demonstrated his set up a year or so ago?
Any chance of a link?
Here go, Matt, some links to setup:
Clamp described here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.msg19096#msg19096
On Sherpa, I often stored the Rowi on the front lowrider spacer and sometimes filmed from there. I can do the same on the Nomad, but usually mount it to the T-bar above the handlebars.
Pics of the basic Nomad camera mount setup in this link here (ignore the extra T-bar at the bottom, this was shot during early setup experiments): http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4523.msg22081#msg22081
A better closeup of the bare left end of the T-bar where the GoPro is mounted here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4523.msg35037#msg35037 ...and here... http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4523.msg35037#msg35037
When I am not running the GoPro, then I fasten a PlanetBike Blaze Micro 2watt white blinky in its place, where it peers neatly over my HB bag (dropped below 'bar level on a Thorn Accessory T-bar) where it is ideal as a "be seen" light. At 2watts with a fairly narrow beam, it is nice for daytime conspicuity as well. I have another sometimes mounted to my helmet for through-the-night randos. Of course, my "see with" light is a dyno-powered B&M LED mounted at the fork crown on an IQ Fly mount.
I've not had good luck with the GoPro bicycle mount, having cracked three of them in practice. I much prefer my Rowi camera clamp, which also has a locking ball-tilt-swivel head and retractable tripod feet as well as a dead-wood screw and will mount to car windows, stair railings, sticks, etc. I mount the GoPro to it using a GoPro tripod adapter.
Rowis are no longer available except used on eBay (search eBay for "Rowi camera clamp" and match the results to my photos of it linked above). The one you want is here: http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-rowi-camera-clamp-tripod-159329301 Similar clamps are out there, however, but I have not tried them. The Rowis (primary and backup) have served me well over 40+ years now (relics of West Germany) and I don't see them failing anytime soon.
Others on the Forum prefer other means; Andre, for example, loves his GorillaPod. The GoPro will attach to it nicely if you employ the GoPro tripod mount.
Hope this helps, Matt.
All the best,
Dan.
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One possbility with the Thorn is a mount off the side of the double-plate fork crown. Visible on the left fork crown here:
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/petesig26/Red%20Centre%20Way%20and%20the%20road%20to%20Old%20Andado/P1020200_zps34f637a3.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/petesig26/media/Red%20Centre%20Way%20and%20the%20road%20to%20Old%20Andado/P1020200_zps34f637a3.jpg.html)
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Interesting fitting for the GoPro.
I have been obsessed with it being above the barbag but this looks good and something I will explore.
Thanks
Matt