Thorn Cycles Forum

Community => Non-Thorn Related => Topic started by: julk on May 30, 2014, 03:57:57 PM

Title: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: julk on May 30, 2014, 03:57:57 PM
I was on the CTC Lothian Rally this last weekend. Based at Mortonhall Caravan and Camp Site in Edinburgh the rally was great fun.
I met old friends and made some new ones. The rides were good, evening food and entertainment were excellent.
Sadly the weather was pretty grim, lots of rain, misty and a cold easterly wind.
My bike was parked outside under a tree and got very wet. It is usually dry garaged.

On Sunday I parked opposite St. Gile’s Cathedral on the Royal Mile whilst having a drink break in a nearby coffee shop.
On returning to my bike and getting ready to set off I had a few minutes of worry as the 2 year old n’lock would not engage in the ride position :(
After a few minutes struggling with it I managed to force it back to the ride position. Later in the ride I forgot and n’locked again only to have the same problem getting it back to the ride position.
Thereafter I remembered to leave it locked in the ride position, using just a U-lock for security when parked.

This week, after arriving home I shared the problem with n’lock's very helpful Franklin Niedrig who advised (and offered) a strip down and relube of the stem.
I undertook the strip down of the n’lock stem myself. With the stem off the bike it involves loosening 3 grub screws whilst removing the parts so released.
Close examination of the stem components revealed no problem other than the lock barrel had rust by it, everything else seemed well lubricated.

Relubing and reassembling the stem were straightforward. The only difficulty came when repositioning the indicator lever on top of the stem.
I got this done by a temporary clamp of the indicator lever post whilst positioning the lever and spring, obvious after the job, not so obvious when you are holding several oily components under a coiled spring tension!  The temporary clamping grub screw is then loosened a midge’s wing to just retain the indicator lever post whilst allowing rotation.

So my advice to all you n’lock users is put a few drops of oil on the moving parts of your n’lock and give the lock barrel a soak with oil every year.
Julian.
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: Andre Jute on May 31, 2014, 12:32:36 AM
Thank you for that warning and tutorial, Julian. I've saved your post in my n'lock file for future reference.

(I also saved your post in iBooks via Dropbox. I've discovered that the iPhone, which I carry only for medical and taxi emergencies -- also called "flats" -- is a really handy workshop manual, but you don't want to have to search for the information on the net, you preferably want to save the frustration by having it instantly to hand in iBooks either as text or a PDF.)
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: Andre Jute on September 22, 2015, 01:22:47 PM
Julian, since you're the only one of us who has taken the n'lock apart, do you have any idea about giving a working n'lock a precautionary shot of grease without completely dismantling it first?

And what about the lock? Will a squirt of oil from the outside do it?
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: jags on September 22, 2015, 04:58:46 PM
Lads this sounds like a hell of a lot of hassle for locking your bike ???
just saying.

anto.
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: Andre Jute on September 22, 2015, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: jags on September 22, 2015, 04:58:46 PM
Lads this sounds like a hell of a lot of hassle for locking your bike ???
just saying.
anto.

What are you on about, Anto? You have to squirt some oil into the mechanism of a D lock too.

It seems to me that servicing an n'lock every three years with a squirt of grease, if that is what is required, is a pretty low-maintenance demand from a lock that works, that actually saves weight (my n'lock is lighter than the stem it replaced!), that gives you higher handlebars on demand, and that you don't have to bend over with your backside inelegantly in the air to operate.
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: jags on September 22, 2015, 07:46:26 PM
yeah ok Andre but what happens when it goes wrong. your walking.
i wouldn't mess around with anything to do with the steering,a good  u lock or  cable lock is good enough me thinks .
mind you i never use a lock i always keep my baby in view at all times just a roadie thing i suppose keep things as light as possible  ::) ;D
besides a lock is useless un less it ancored well to something solid like a police man or an german shepard.

anto.
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: julk on September 22, 2015, 09:54:57 PM
Quote from: Andre Jute on September 22, 2015, 01:22:47 PM
Julian, since you're the only one of us who has taken the n'lock apart, do you have any idea about giving a working n'lock a precautionary shot of grease without completely dismantling it first?

And what about the lock? Will a squirt of oil from the outside do it?
I don’t think you would get grease in without some dismantling and I found my n’lock to be adequately lubricated inside.
If you are worried then I would drip a few drops of oil into anywhere you can as a precaution.
The sticker on the back covers a hole which gives some access to the internal surfaces.

The lock will definitely benefit from a squirt of some penetrating lubricant if it has gone stiff or been subject to a lot of driven rain.
Julian.
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: il padrone on September 23, 2015, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: jags on September 22, 2015, 07:46:26 PM
besides a lock is useless un less it ancored well to something solid like a police man or an german shepard.
....or 35kgs of camping gear and another bike similarly loaded :D

Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: Andre Jute on September 23, 2015, 12:14:29 PM
Quote from: jags on September 22, 2015, 07:46:26 PM
yeah ok Andre but what happens when it goes wrong. your walking.
 

That's why I have a phone. It's only old roadies who're embarrassed to call a taxi.

Quote from: jags on September 22, 2015, 07:46:26 PM
i wouldn't mess around with anything to do with the steering,a good  u lock or  cable lock is good enough me thinks .

My n'lock installation saved over 7 pounds of Abus Granit U-lock and a ringlock and a heavy Gazelle chain in a heavy canvas sheath. I wouldn't want to be called a weight weenie, but enough is enough already.

Quote from: jags on September 22, 2015, 07:46:26 PM
besides a lock is useless un less it ancored well to something solid like a police man or an german shepard.

People here don't drive open trucks and their vans have rubbish in them. Anyhow, who's going to move my bike? It's not a road bike you can pick up on a pinky, it's huge and it's heavy, and the n'lock turns it alive in the most awkard manner imaginable. Read at
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3930.msg21571#msg21571 (http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3930.msg21571#msg21571)
how my bike turns into vicious viper just waiting to break a thief's legs when I remove the n'lock key.

Nah, if you'd ever used an n'lock, you'd agree with me that it is one of the best components I ever fitted to my bike (I rate it fourth to the Rolloff and the motor which between them allow me to keep cycling, and the Big Apples around which my bike is designed), well worth a shot of grease every few years when I service the klickbox on my Rohloff anyway.

Of course, if I lived in a higher-crime environment, I'd carry the longer n'lock cable (than the one in the handlebar -- see the photos in the thread you've already been referred to), and lock the rear wheel around a pole to the n'lock.
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: Andre Jute on September 23, 2015, 12:23:03 PM
Quote from: il padrone on September 23, 2015, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: jags on September 22, 2015, 07:46:26 PM
besides a lock is useless un less it ancored well to something solid like a police man or an german shepard.
....or 35kgs of camping gear and another bike similarly loaded :D

Or to the luislang (Python natalensis),  I used to keep as a pet.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Python_natalensis_G._J._Alexander.JPG)

Problem is, you might come back to your bike, and your snake, to find the bike inside the snake, with just a bit of the tethering cable sticking out of the corner of its mouth as a declaration of defiance. Some more of my pets at
The Piranha Pool Party in Hell, Connecticut (http://coolmainpress.com/ajwriting/archives/1942)
 
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: John Saxby on September 23, 2015, 03:29:25 PM
Quote
to find the bike inside the snake

'course, then you could write a book about it, & call it Le petit prince or something similar...

Mind you, Andre, your foto of the python reminded me of a very effective anti-theft strategy a friend in Zambia used.  Rather than invest in hardware and electronics, he simply installed prominent "Beware of Snakes" signs in several languages around the house & garden, and let it be known that he kept a pet Boomslang and Gaboon Viper.  Would-be thieves took note and decided not to call his bluff.

Here, maybe just a sticker on the downtube would do the job:  "Boomslang inside my kit -- and anti-venom just is a waste of money"
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: jags on September 23, 2015, 03:40:12 PM
well your probably right but i wouldn't trust it as far as i could throw it .
tipping down a hill at 50mph which i do pretty often. i want nothing to interfear with my steering. nah anto will take his chances with the common sense approch  keep ya bike in view at all times.
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: Andre Jute on September 23, 2015, 09:50:20 PM
Quote from: julk on September 22, 2015, 09:54:57 PM
Quote from: Andre Jute on September 22, 2015, 01:22:47 PM
Julian, since you're the only one of us who has taken the n'lock apart, do you have any idea about giving a working n'lock a precautionary shot of grease without completely dismantling it first?

And what about the lock? Will a squirt of oil from the outside do it?
I don’t think you would get grease in without some dismantling and I found my n’lock to be adequately lubricated inside.
If you are worried then I would drip a few drops of oil into anywhere you can as a precaution.
The sticker on the back covers a hole which gives some access to the internal surfaces.

The lock will definitely benefit from a squirt of some penetrating lubricant if it has gone stiff or been subject to a lot of driven rain.
Julian.

I'm not keen on precautionary dismantling of Things with Springs, and my n'lock has been wet (lightly) perhaps twice, so there is no urgency here now that I have reread your posts in this thread carefully. Next time I'm doing some little job I'll oil the lock and investigate the hole behind the label now that you've generously shared your first-hand experience with us. If the thing ever gets stuck, I'll hire Franklin Niedrig, who has retired, to service it; always get the main man, if you can.

You're a prince, Julian.
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: Andre Jute on September 23, 2015, 10:05:00 PM
Quote from: John Saxby on September 23, 2015, 03:29:25 PM
Quote
to find the bike inside the snake

Here, maybe just a sticker on the downtube would do the job:  "Boomslang inside my kit -- and anti-venom just is a waste of money"

If by boomslang you mean a black tree snake, the problem with it isn't so much that anti-venom is a waste of money, but that there is no effective anti-venom at all. If a black tree snake  bites you, you suffocate in seven to ten minutes, period. They're easily startled into attacking and their thin heads are very hard to see hanging down in your path. I don't know any African survivor of those latitudes who doesn't kill black treesnakes on sight.

I worked with a fellow who'd been a squadron leader in the RAF in Kenya, who would handle his black and green mamba and then come into the directors' dining room and pick up the fruit and cheese without washing his hands (ugh!) and he, without smiling (he had zero sense of humor or even the absurd), called a man who kept a black tree snake in a glass cage in his living room "Mad and suicidal."

Fruit and nut cakes everywhere.
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: dick220369 on October 03, 2015, 11:13:57 PM
Can anyone tell me what stem length the n'lock uses? On the website some models are quoted as being 120 mm,  some don't have a stated length,  and on this forum I've read 100 mm. I'm thinking of getting one but 100 mm is too short.
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: Andre Jute on October 04, 2015, 02:37:05 AM
Tape measure says mine is 100mm.

But that doesn't answer your question, as the fixed and adjustable models are different lengths for sure, mine being the fixed model. In addition, I seem to remember that on the designer's netsite, before he sold the company and retired, there was a choice of lengths of the top models. You better check with the present vendors, either on their netsite or by e-mail if the information isn't on their site.

The n'lock is definitely a recommended component for its superior convenience.
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: dick220369 on October 04, 2015, 10:43:54 AM
Thanks Andre,

Just a couple more questions that maybe you can answer before I take the plunge and buy one (I have tried emailing the company in the past but they never get back to you). Do you think the n'lock is strong enough to carry a loaded handlebar bag without any issues? Also, is it the adjustable model you have? If so, does it suffer from the incessant creaking noise that all adjustable stems seem to suffer from. I have bought two adjustable stems in the past, and although I loved them, had to replace them with fixed stems because the creaking drove me crazy.

Thanks,

Richard  :)
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: Andre Jute on October 04, 2015, 10:47:23 PM
Quote from: dick220369 on October 04, 2015, 10:43:54 AM
Do you think the n'lock is strong enough to carry a loaded handlebar bag without any issues?

Mine permanently carries a loaded handlebar bag with heavy stuff in it (paintbox, sketchbooks, camera, backup battery for my iPhone, metal wallet, seat cover, etc). The handlebars themselves are loaded up with heavy Brooks leather-ring grips with cast ali ends, and considerable gear and controls. More, though I have Big Apples, which are excellent suspension front and back, and run them at very low pressure (under 2 bar for an all-up weight north of a quarter-ton), I use them to ride at speed right through obstructions that would break a lesser bike, so that the stem takes a huge amount of stress as the bike requires to be steadied. The n'lock seems to be immensely strong; it shrugs off this kind of hard use with disdain. Swiss engineering may not be boutique-elegant, but it slugs right back with the best of German engineering...

Quote from: dick220369 on October 04, 2015, 10:43:54 AM
Also, is it the adjustable model you have?

No, I have the fixed model. I ordered the adjustable model, because my bikes always have adjustable stems, but they didn't have it in stock in the right color (black), so I took what I could get. It was a mistake: the adjustable model is much more convenient.

Quote from: dick220369 on October 04, 2015, 10:43:54 AM
If so, does it suffer from the incessant creaking noise that all adjustable stems seem to suffer from.

I doubt very much that the adjustable n'lock will creak, but I think there is at least one adjustable n'lock owner here who can give you an answer from experience.

Quote from: dick220369 on October 04, 2015, 10:43:54 AM
...the incessant creaking noise that all adjustable stems seem to suffer from. I have bought two adjustable stems in the past, and although I loved them, had to replace them with fixed stems because the creaking drove me crazy.

Sounds like you either cheaped out or were immensely unlucky. I have adjustable stems on all my bikes, and have had since forever, immediately fitting one if the bike comes without because I sit very upright and like using the adjustable stem to gain handlebar height. None have ever creaked. But I'm not a weight weenie, and I have only stadsportief (fast but hefty commuters) and touring bikes, so I tend to buy quality engineering that lasts forever before I worry about price, and I don't even ask how much it weighs.

On my Gazelle I have their outstandingly convenient but unfortunately proprietary Switch stem, which is toollessly adjustable, and absolutely wonderful; unfortunately, the last time I looked it was only available for 1" threaded steerers...

On all my other bikes, except the Utopia Kranich, I fitted the bomb-proof Humpert Ahead Stem Swell Eco, whatever all that means... You need tools to adjust it but once adjusted it is rock solid.  It is lighter than it appears:
(http://www.humpert.com/en_script/bikeparts/marke/produktart/einsatzbereich/produkt/showimage/?produkt=39&bildgross=1)

On my everyday utility/recreation/exercise bike, a Utopia Kranich, I have the n'lock, not adjustable.

None of these stems make the slightest sound. On smooth tarmac, on the white line, in the middle of the night without cars in my quiet country village, my bike proceeds like a ghost, just the sigh of wind against spokes. (I'd like to conduct this test in front of the graveyard, but the blacktop there is rough...) I'd hear a creak in the stem, for sure, and it would drive me bonkers until I fixed it.

***
I were you, rather than worry about noise from the n'lock, if your bike will be exposed to a lot of driving rain, I'd make sure I was prepared to service the n'lock every few years according to Julian's instructions in this thread. It's no great concern to me even on my near-zero maintenance Kranich, which like all my bikes lives inside in heated space and is rarely wet (I'm old and not in a condition for extensive tours), but presumably your bike is more actively exposed to the elements, so a fiddly (springs!) service may be a small consideration.

Good luck. Fitting and usage reports are always welcome, even if we already have some.
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: Slammin Sammy on October 09, 2015, 12:57:36 PM
Hello Thorn fans! I've been away for awhile, posting on other forums (Facebook being the main one). I'm also in Yankeeland for a five week holiday without my Nomad, which I'm missing dearly.

+1 to Andre's comments re: the n'Lock. It's a great piece of kit with far more benefits than drawbacks. Contrary to some people's perception (Anto?  ;)), it is as safe as houses when locked. There is NO RISK of it becoming unlocked in use, unless you purposely try to unlock it, which takes two hands, so how are you steering the bike?

I have the adjustable version, which is 120mm long. It does not creek, but does have a very slight knock, which feels like a loose headset bearing. It was mentioned on the original n'Lock web site, and is perfectly normal, although takes a little getting used to. There is the slightest little side to side play, which doesn't increase over time. No noise though.

I bought the offered handlebar with cable mounted internally, but then mounted Ergon grips, which permanently entombed the cable. I use the offered extra cable (which is longer) now to secure the bike to stationary objects, although my Nomad is also heavy enough to be very difficult to lift and carry away. In overnight situations, I also use an Abus Amparo ring lock with cable, plus I have pitlock skewers for my wheels.
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: Andre Jute on October 09, 2015, 02:10:27 PM
Quote from: Slammin Sammy on October 09, 2015, 12:57:36 PM
I bought the offered handlebar with cable mounted internally, but then mounted Ergon grips, which permanently entombed the cable. I use the offered extra cable (which is longer) now to secure the bike to stationary objects,

You must be young and supple, Sam. That handlebar cable is so very convenient, not least for saving bending over the bike. Can't you drill a hole or cut a small V-shaped slit in the lefthand Ergon to restore function to that cable?
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: Slammin Sammy on October 10, 2015, 09:17:13 AM
Quote from: Andre Jute on October 09, 2015, 02:10:27 PM
Can't you drill a hole or cut a small V-shaped slit in the lefthand Ergon to restore function to that cable?

I suppose I could've, although it didn't occur to me at the time.  :o

Also, the cable concealed in the bar is quite short, limiting its usefulness. The external cable is longer, enabling tying around a greater range of bases. A chain would have been even better.

My LBS has just emailed to say that an Abus Amparo chain I've ordered has just come in. This will replace the Amparo cable, which is stiff and unruly.
Title: Re: Problem with my n'lock
Post by: jags on October 10, 2015, 04:22:51 PM
Ah Sam Andre has me weighed up i can't wind him up one bit he way ahead of me  ;D ;D
sure it's only a craic.

anto.