Thorn Cycles Forum

Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: Vintagetourer on May 04, 2014, 01:00:57 PM

Title: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Vintagetourer on May 04, 2014, 01:00:57 PM
Over the last few months I've been gradually accumulating the makings of a Thorn Audax.
A cold, wet weekend here in Canberra Australia gave the excuse to take stock and lay out the pieces.
Almost every part needed is in hand, and ready to assemble.
Quite a sight:
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: jags on May 04, 2014, 01:11:28 PM
oh man this is gonna be worth watching 8)


jags
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Danneaux on May 04, 2014, 02:49:03 PM
Quote
oh man this is gonna be worth watching
;D I heartily agree!

Best of luck on your build, VT -- it has all the makings of one for the ages. I love the red theme as well.

Wonderful! All encouragement your way!

Best,

Dan. (...who thinks this may be the best "pre-build" photo yet!)
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: jags on May 04, 2014, 03:02:35 PM
Are you going with barend shifters looks like chris king headset and spacers,
is that tiagra chainset i had one on the raleigh but the rings were just that bit to big for me so changes to stronglight impact.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: brummie on May 04, 2014, 06:43:31 PM
There's more red there than my RST ! ( You could paint & fit some mudguards to match you know ! )
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Danneaux on May 04, 2014, 07:20:55 PM
Brummie!

Yours is still one of my all-time favorite Thorns *because* of this very color scheme and how nicely you executed it throughout.

Brilliant! (in oh, so many ways; I love it!)...maybe 'cos it reminds me of my first beloved bike at age 6 -- also red. VT has a wonderful one in the making.

Best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Vintagetourer on May 04, 2014, 07:53:57 PM
Are you going with barend shifters looks like chris king headset and spacers,
is that tiagra chainset i had one on the raleigh but the rings were just that bit to big for me so changes to stronglight impact.

I decided on down-tube shifters as that is what I have been using on my commuter/light tourer (an Ernie Clements Falcon Olympic) since 1979. I am well used to them. Old habits!

The stocktake is:

Frame - Thorn Audax Mk 3 steel Cro-Mo Thorn 858  Size: 570 medium/large
Forks - Thorn (Reynolds) 853c  steel 46mm offset
Hubs - Hope Pro3 Mono road 32H 130mm
Skewers -Hope QR steel, 100mm & 135mm
Handlebar -Ritchey 44cm WCS Logic II Road 31.8mm
Handlebar tape - ZIPP Service Course Bar Tape, or PRO Smart Silicon Bar Tape
Top cap and bolt - token pyro alloy, 1.1/8"
Spacers - Hope Space Doctor - 1.1-8", 1.1/8"
Front dérailleur - Shimano 105 FD-5703 10 Speed Triple Front Derailleur - Multi-Fit 28.6/31.8 mm
Rear dérailleur - Shimano 105 RD-5701 10 Speed Rear Derailleur - GS / Medium Cage
Front brake -Shimano R-650 Dual Pivot Calipers 47-57mm Deep Drop Allen Key Fitting
Rear brake - Shimano R650 Dual Pivot 57mm Drop Brake Caliper  
Brake levers - Shimano Ultegra BL-R600 SLR Aero Road Brake Levers
Shifters - Shimano Dura Ace SL-7900 10 spd braze-on downtube
Pedals - Shimano A530 Road Pedals
Chainset Shimano Ultegra 6703 Triple 10sp  130mm, 52.39.30
Cranks Shimano Ultegra 6703  175mm

Stem - 3T Arx Team  100mm, 31.8mm, 1.1/8", 17 Degrees
OR
Ritchey WCS 4-Axis 31.8 Stem 120mm

Headset - FSA Orbit  1 1/8"
Rims - 32 hole 700c DT Swiss RR 465 double road
Spokes 14g butted
Chain - Shimano 10 speed HG
Bottom bracket cups - Ultegra SM-BB6700
Cassette - Shimano Ultegra 10 spd 12-30 CS-6700
Seat-post - Thomson Elite Inline Black 27.2 x 250mm
Saddle - Brooks
Rear rack - Tubus Carry Ti
Tyres - Schwalbe Durano 700c 28mm folding (not red!)
Saddle Bag Scicon Elan 210 Carbonium White Carbon 210 cc
Pump - Lezyne
Bottle cages- Elite
Lights - Ay Up front, Knog flashers, Di Notte rear




Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: phopwood on May 04, 2014, 08:22:33 PM
That is going to be a stunning build. Keep us all up to date.

Peter
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: brummie on May 04, 2014, 08:32:21 PM
Brummie!

Yours is still one of my all-time favorite Thorns *because* of this very color scheme and how nicely you executed it throughout.

Brilliant! (in oh, so many ways; I love it!)...maybe 'cos it reminds me of my first beloved bike at age 6 -- also red. VT has a wonderful one in the making.

Best,

Dan.

Thanks Dan !  - I'm liking the white trim on your 'fenders' ( Might make a nice finishing touch to my RST??? )
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: nztony on May 05, 2014, 04:04:33 AM
Vintagetourer
This looks fascinating. I'm a recent Nomad MK2 owner and it's a great bike, but 4 months in I'm thinking of getting something a bit quicker for day rides and subsequently have been reading up the Thorn PDFs on the Audax. You didn't say, but I assume you have bought the frame brand new from SJS Cycles? If so, how much did they charge to have it shipped to Canberra? I am in Wellington NZ, so it would be a good guide. I see SJS has Audax frames in stock for what seems to be an excellent price of £425.00 but their shipping seems to be on the high side?
Many thanks
Tony in NZ.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Vintagetourer on May 05, 2014, 04:46:56 AM
Tony freight total cost me 129 GBP. (Edit...Yes bought frame and forks new from Thorn)

This covered the frame and fork and as much else which would fit in the box including some parts eg brakes, down-tube shifters, and also tools/parts a friend wanted from SJSC which he reimbursed me for. It's charged on volume, not weight.

A slight complication is that I wanted the light Reynolds fork, but Thorn sent me the standard fork with braze-ons. Thorn accepted the error and shipped the lighter fork to me free of charge. So now I have two front fork which is OK because if I ever do want to use front panniers I can swap over the forks.

All the other bits were freight and VAT  free via Wiggle, ChainReaction, Bike24 or local online retailers. I hunted for these over a few months.

My two main indulgences in components have been the Ti rack and the Brooks Ti saddle. A bit excessive, though I got the saddle at about a 30% discount.  The rest of the components were also Sale prices. A friend built the wheels for me for a very reasonable fee.  

I haven't done a total costing yet, and even if I provided it, it wouldn't mean much unless you could chase up the one-off sales and discounts as they come up via the various retailers over time. It's been fun!
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: nztony on May 05, 2014, 05:08:59 AM
Vintagetourer
That is excellent info, and exactly what I was looking for, so thank you for that, and thank you for the headsup on Bike24, I hadn't heard of them, seems like a German version of Wiggle and Chainreaction? I can't believe I can buy a Rohloff Hub online, as I see they sell them, and Ortlieb, which is hard to find here in NZ.

Once again, very many thanks, very useful information.
Tony.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Vintagetourer on May 08, 2014, 12:42:07 PM
Yes the Bike24 site is always worth a look at Tony, especially for German brands.
They aren't particularly cheap, and they charge freight, but they seem to have a huge range.
The majority of the components for this current build came from Chainreaction, Wiggle, Torpedo, Bike24 and Thorn.

I could have saved a lot by getting a cheaper saddle, not getting a Ti rack and not getting the light Reynolds fork.
The rest of the build is a fairly good price.

My Thorn Audax should be finished in a couple of days. So far it's looking great. Tonight we did a few final measurements. The steerer tube is the key one, as it will have to be cut to length.
The rest of it seems to be a good fit, but only a ride will confirm that.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: nztony on May 08, 2014, 01:12:01 PM
Vintagetourer,

Thanks for the info. I have just this very minute emailed SJS asking for an approx figure for shipping an Audax MK3 frame to NZ.
Although ... I should be saving my money for my UK trip, not thinking about adding new bikes to my collection! (collection of one that is.)
Tony
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Vintagetourer on May 08, 2014, 01:29:20 PM
If you are going to the UK Tony, why don't order it ahead, collect it personally and bring it home as accompanied luggage? This is how I got my Thorn Sherpa. Saved freight, VAT and GST.
A bit more of the story here:
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/reviews/board/message/?thread_id=565525
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: nztony on May 08, 2014, 02:22:24 PM
Quote
Insert Quote
If you are going to the UK Tony, why don't order it ahead, collect it personally and bring it home as accompanied luggage?

Graham

Good idea and I have contemplated that, but I'll already have my Nomad MK2 and all my touring gear, tent, sleeping bag, you name it, so I'll be paying extra baggage fees as it is, before adding extras.

Tony
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Vintagetourer on May 09, 2014, 08:17:49 AM
Quite right that wouldn't work Tony. One too many bikes to carry!
I hope they give you a reasonable quote for freight. I can't imagine it will be much different to mine.
By the way, mine arrived remarkably fast. It was at the front door in about a week.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: nztony on May 09, 2014, 10:20:22 AM
Graham

They gave me a better quote than you had by the looks of things, at £109.
They also steered me towards the Club Tour, describing it "as it is basically an Audax on steroids" as the upper weight limit for the Audax is 95kg and I better that by quite some way.

I  told the Thorn rep I wanted a faster bike for day rides and he advised me "the Club Tour will be a vast improvement on a day ride bike over a Nomad and it will be like a Land Rover Vs a Ferrari." I smiled at this reply as I have told many people, when the ask about my Nomad, that it is the "Land Rover Defender" of bicycles, so it was fascinating to see the Thorn rep using the same example.

Now that I have read the Club Tour pdf, I think it looks a very nice bike, so not at all concerned with the new recommendation.

Tony
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Vintagetourer on May 09, 2014, 11:05:01 AM
Great... but Tony I suggest you think carefully about it, and get a few opinions on the comparative geometries of the two frames. It's a long way for a frame to go to NZ and not be quite right.

Personally I think the Club is more comparable to a light version of (say) a Surly 700c. That is, a more relaxed geometry and a bit heavier. I also looked at the Audax vs the Club Tour.

The Audax is tight, nippy but more elongated than a 'real' racing bike ... whatever that is. The rear wheel doesn't sit as close to the front wheel as it would in a real climbing bike. The Club is slightly more stretched, And a bit more robust.

I decided that if I need to carry four panniers, then I will take my Sherpa or Bike Friday. Anything less ie max. two panniers, the Audax would do the job.

Mine is very close to finished. As soon as I have a ride, I can tell you what it's capable of.

Gut feel? Get the Audax. But get a more opinions than mine!
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: honesty on May 09, 2014, 11:22:02 PM
where did you get the weight limit data for the audax? I'm 95kg butt naked first thing in the morning, and my audax handles me +10kg of luggage nicely.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: jags on May 09, 2014, 11:40:01 PM
tony for faster day rides why not go for something like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnP3SeK3_jg
the nomad will do all your touring or loaded needs these bikes are basically speed machines.
just saying.

jags.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: David Simpson on May 09, 2014, 11:44:59 PM
... I have told many people, when the ask about my Nomad, that it is the "Land Rover Defender" of bicycles, so it was fascinating to see the Thorn rep using the same example.

That is exactly how I have considered my Nomad.  I consider that "Nomad" vs "normal road bike" is like "Land Rover" vs "Lotus".  And I've always been a Land-Rover-kind-of-guy.

- Dave
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: JimK on May 09, 2014, 11:55:34 PM
Yeah Land Rover is my characterization too, but around here they look more luxury than tough. Thanks for dialing in the "Defender" model. That hits the target perfectly!
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: David Simpson on May 10, 2014, 12:15:48 AM
Yeah Land Rover is my characterization too, but around here they look more luxury than tough. Thanks for dialing in the "Defender" model. That hits the target perfectly!

Unless it's a Defender (or older model), I don't consider it to be a true Land Rover.   I used to own a Jeep CJ-7 (sold it to buy a ring), and anything with carpet on the floor is unnecessary luxury.

- Dave
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: nztony on May 10, 2014, 01:11:16 AM
Honesty

Quote
where did you get the weight limit data for the audax?

I am reluctant to paste the email I received from SJS here, but here is the main paragraph.
I say reluctant, as I don't want to embarrass or make it awkward for SJS by posting what the writer thought was a private email into a public forum. If the ''forum" thinks this isn't a good idea let me know and I will remove it, as I don't feel totally respectful doing this.

QUOTE
Unfortunately I do not agree with your proposal of an Audax frame due to the weight limit of the rider being 15 stone (95kg). I understand your point that you will not ride with luggage and you will be on sealed roads but I would still strongly advise against this and I would push the Club Tour on you as it is basically an Audax on steroids.. It can carry more which will help with the rider weight and it can take a larger tyre which can also be an advantage. I do not want to sound harsh but I really want to stress about the weight limit of the bike and we would have to sale that frame without a warranty knowing this.
UNQUOTE

I am quite amazed how we all seem to refer to our Nomads as Land Rovers.

Jags, I've watched your Youtube link, I'd be too scared to ride a carbon bike at my almost 130kg, I'd be scared of snapping it. Or are these carbon frames stronger than steel, so I have nothing to worry about? I've just assumed carbon isn't as strong as a steel frame. However it would be hard to beat the 499 pounds of the Club Tour I would guess (plus another 100 for the fork.)

Wheels are sorted from wheelworks.co.nz who built my Nomad wheels and have no concern building 700c wheels for my size:  White Ind T11 hubs. DT Swiss 585 rims, bladed DT Swiss Aerolite.

I really should be sensible and leave a faster bike for now, and keep saving for my UK trip!

Anyway got to go, off for a short-ish 35km ride on the Nomad. (Short as I've finished a 12 hour night shift and had 4 hours sleep, but if I had anymore I wouldn't sleep tonight)

Tony
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Andybg on May 10, 2014, 07:44:25 AM
I have two Defenders (certainly of the utlilitarian type) but must me getting soft in my old age as I have just bought a Discovery. It has carpets and even air con - very Cushdy.

My main concern with running an Audax would be the limit on width of tyres and the pressure you would have to inflate them to; it could certainly limit the comfort factor of the bike.

Having said that if you have nice smooth roads I cannot see it being that much of an issue.

My last carbon framed bike I bought had a max rider limit of 85kg but I am sure thay do make carbon frames that would be strong enough.

I must say I am sold on wide tyres and am just waiting for a second hand xtc coming up in my size for a sportier alternative to the Nomad. Although I do keep looking at that R&B Tour with the 853 fork.

Andy
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Vintagetourer on May 10, 2014, 10:12:49 AM
Tony having read the advice sent to you from Thorn, I'll back pedal on my earlier opinion and agree the Club is probably the right choice. To Thorn's credit they give good, frank advice by email. They have done a lot of customer and bike match-making so should know what they are talking about.

If you get the right size Club frame, then you can shop around for trick components on sale and build a speedy, light, fun bike that will encourage you to get out and hurtle around the backroads without the encumbrance of a load.

I'm about 80kg (depending on pie intake) and 5' 10" in the old currency.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: John Saxby on May 10, 2014, 06:01:17 PM
And Tony, if you're looking at a Club Tour with slightly wider 700c tires, have a look at the new offerings by Grand Bois:  http://www.compasscycle.com/tires_700C.html

Have seen a few comments and they sound great for light touring/randonneuring/day rides.

Cheers,

John
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: honesty on May 10, 2014, 07:04:08 PM
Ah fair enough. I was told I was nearing the limit and not to go for the carbon forks when I ordered mine but was never actually told what the limit was. I went for the carbon forks anyway and they've been fine, though I am now changing these to the 853 ones.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: leftpoole on May 11, 2014, 09:18:09 AM
Ah fair enough. I was told I was nearing the limit and not to go for the carbon forks when I ordered mine but was never actually told what the limit was. I went for the carbon forks anyway and they've been fine, though I am now changing these to the 853 ones.

Hello,
In my opinion Thorn are paranoid regarding carbon forks and indeed carbon in general.
I now have carbon forks on three bikes (steel on the Club Tour) and I ride fast over numerous cattle grids through the New Forest area with no problem.
Thorn warranty Thorn bike frames because they can as the costs to them would be low. Steel overbuilt bikes are great, but the carbon fork must (I admit) make a difference to the ride.
I see no reason why any limit is imposed as after all F1 cars are built in carbon and most Tour de France bikes also. Most of these emerge unscathed by falls etc?
Best regards,
John
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: jags on May 11, 2014, 10:03:40 AM
everyone in the group i used to ride with up until 2 years ago including me rode carbon bike's, never once seen a problem and there were plenty of heavy weights in that group.
nothing wrong with carbon, i just prefair steel. but  i would not find it diffucult to use carbon up front defo wake up the ride of the sherpa which i always found to be heavy.
but i dont like using front panniers so i suppose for loaded touring the steel works fine.

jags.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop on May 12, 2014, 10:35:45 AM
http://tinyurl.com/kl9o4wk we have to stick to manufacturers recomendations, most carbon forks have a weight limit and an expiry date.  I built a Time VRX team frame a few years ago for a friend, it had a sticker on saying to discontinue use after 2016...  :-\
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Vintagetourer on May 15, 2014, 09:32:12 AM
Ok folks...(...and welcome Dave, source of the Thorn Audax parts and useful advice)

while we've been chatting, all those red bits have been beautifully assembled by my mechanic friend Alex.
And I'm mightily pleased. Just on 10 kg with all the accessories (except lights) fitted. Here it is unveiled in its ripe red glory:
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: in4 on May 15, 2014, 09:46:17 AM
Now this must surely be named Testarossa. Great looking bike with 'go faster' written all over it.  :)
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Vintagetourer on May 15, 2014, 11:22:55 AM
'Doppler' is another suggestion.

 The observant will have noted the small details.:)
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: jags on May 15, 2014, 12:54:45 PM
cracking build well done loads of detail bet it looks great in the sunshine.


jags.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Vintagetourer on May 15, 2014, 01:03:51 PM
Yes I'm delighted with the look and feel of the bike. Only one short ride this afternoon and the frame feels just right with a nice balance of spring and stiffness. Given that everything including the frame and fork was bought sight unseen and on size estimates, the fit is remarkably good.

This Thorn bike is replacing a 14 kg 1979 Ernie Clements Falcon Olympic  as my daily commute bike. The difference is noticeable :)

One more pic.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: John Saxby on May 15, 2014, 02:32:52 PM
Brilliant, Graham, in every sense!  Suggest you keep it close by & inside your workplace after your commute -- display it only to select & appreciative audiences like the readers of this forum & the like, not to any passer-by who'd want to pinch it.  Enjoy! - John
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Vintagetourer on May 15, 2014, 08:09:00 PM
That is a good reminder John. Yes I was conscious of this bike not being innocuous like its predecessor. I do have a good spot to keep it at work, so it'll be fine.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: jags on May 15, 2014, 08:39:22 PM
what about this lock.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/15/skylock-smart-bike-lock/


jags
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Vintagetourer on May 15, 2014, 08:53:52 PM
I wouldn't use a lock which is smarter than me :)
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: jags on May 15, 2014, 09:15:01 PM
 ;D ;D fair enough ;)
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Vintagetourer on May 15, 2014, 09:53:28 PM
...except if they are available in wet red:)
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: jags on May 15, 2014, 10:21:53 PM
theres always a rattle can. ;)
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Vintagetourer on May 15, 2014, 10:32:44 PM
True.
I might have to reign in this redness before it takes over.:)

As for security, I have a long-serving Kryptonite mini U-bolt I usually use.
Mostly the bike will be kept inside. Fortunately I work in a very low risk area for bike theft.

Local shops are the high risk area.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: jags on May 16, 2014, 09:47:30 AM
yeah i keep my audax inside all the time if i need to go into a shop usually in the country i make surei can see it  from inside,.
my friend had all his bikes stoled from his lock up shed  8000 worth of bikes he new who done it and so too did the cops but had no proof (knackers) :o
lucky his house insurance covered the loss.he now has steel doors on his shed.


jags.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Andre Jute on May 16, 2014, 03:00:38 PM
what about this lock.
http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/15/skylock-smart-bike-lock/
jags

At that price Shylock is more like it than Skylock. It's a gimmick in search of purpose.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: jags on May 16, 2014, 03:19:45 PM
I'de say your on the button there Andre.
btw ive a job for you  8)

photos on face book post them here theres a good lad  ;)
if you dont mind that is, i know you  dont thats why i ask  :-[


anto.
ps...Any word from Dan.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: Andre Jute on May 16, 2014, 05:39:03 PM
(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10368223_592970264143161_5402991683874950467_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/10268679_592970377476483_4091643246642440699_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/10382773_592970477476473_4877063987388837376_n.jpg)

It's real easy, Anto.

1 .Click on the photo to go to your Facebook album.
2. Drag the photo into your Thorn post.
3. Select the URL in your Thorn post.
4. Click on the second pictograph from the left above the smileys to turn it into an inline photo in your post.

You can do it in your sleep.
Title: Re: Thorn Audax one part at a time
Post by: jags on May 16, 2014, 05:42:43 PM
Thanks Andre I'll give it a go later on.


anto.