Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: Vintagetourer on May 04, 2014, 01:00:57 PM
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Over the last few months I've been gradually accumulating the makings of a Thorn Audax.
A cold, wet weekend here in Canberra Australia gave the excuse to take stock and lay out the pieces.
Almost every part needed is in hand, and ready to assemble.
Quite a sight:
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oh man this is gonna be worth watching 8)
jags
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oh man this is gonna be worth watching
;D I heartily agree!
Best of luck on your build, VT -- it has all the makings of one for the ages. I love the red theme as well.
Wonderful! All encouragement your way!
Best,
Dan. (...who thinks this may be the best "pre-build" photo yet!)
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Are you going with barend shifters looks like chris king headset and spacers,
is that tiagra chainset i had one on the raleigh but the rings were just that bit to big for me so changes to stronglight impact.
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There's more red there than my RST ! ( You could paint & fit some mudguards to match you know ! )
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Brummie!
Yours is still one of my all-time favorite Thorns *because* of this very color scheme and how nicely you executed it throughout.
Brilliant! (in oh, so many ways; I love it!)...maybe 'cos it reminds me of my first beloved bike at age 6 -- also red. VT has a wonderful one in the making.
Best,
Dan.
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Are you going with barend shifters looks like chris king headset and spacers,
is that tiagra chainset i had one on the raleigh but the rings were just that bit to big for me so changes to stronglight impact.
I decided on down-tube shifters as that is what I have been using on my commuter/light tourer (an Ernie Clements Falcon Olympic) since 1979. I am well used to them. Old habits!
The stocktake is:
Frame - Thorn Audax Mk 3 steel Cro-Mo Thorn 858 Size: 570 medium/large
Forks - Thorn (Reynolds) 853c steel 46mm offset
Hubs - Hope Pro3 Mono road 32H 130mm
Skewers -Hope QR steel, 100mm & 135mm
Handlebar -Ritchey 44cm WCS Logic II Road 31.8mm
Handlebar tape - ZIPP Service Course Bar Tape, or PRO Smart Silicon Bar Tape
Top cap and bolt - token pyro alloy, 1.1/8"
Spacers - Hope Space Doctor - 1.1-8", 1.1/8"
Front dérailleur - Shimano 105 FD-5703 10 Speed Triple Front Derailleur - Multi-Fit 28.6/31.8 mm
Rear dérailleur - Shimano 105 RD-5701 10 Speed Rear Derailleur - GS / Medium Cage
Front brake -Shimano R-650 Dual Pivot Calipers 47-57mm Deep Drop Allen Key Fitting
Rear brake - Shimano R650 Dual Pivot 57mm Drop Brake Caliper
Brake levers - Shimano Ultegra BL-R600 SLR Aero Road Brake Levers
Shifters - Shimano Dura Ace SL-7900 10 spd braze-on downtube
Pedals - Shimano A530 Road Pedals
Chainset Shimano Ultegra 6703 Triple 10sp 130mm, 52.39.30
Cranks Shimano Ultegra 6703 175mm
Stem - 3T Arx Team 100mm, 31.8mm, 1.1/8", 17 Degrees
OR
Ritchey WCS 4-Axis 31.8 Stem 120mm
Headset - FSA Orbit 1 1/8"
Rims - 32 hole 700c DT Swiss RR 465 double road
Spokes 14g butted
Chain - Shimano 10 speed HG
Bottom bracket cups - Ultegra SM-BB6700
Cassette - Shimano Ultegra 10 spd 12-30 CS-6700
Seat-post - Thomson Elite Inline Black 27.2 x 250mm
Saddle - Brooks
Rear rack - Tubus Carry Ti
Tyres - Schwalbe Durano 700c 28mm folding (not red!)
Saddle Bag Scicon Elan 210 Carbonium White Carbon 210 cc
Pump - Lezyne
Bottle cages- Elite
Lights - Ay Up front, Knog flashers, Di Notte rear
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That is going to be a stunning build. Keep us all up to date.
Peter
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Brummie!
Yours is still one of my all-time favorite Thorns *because* of this very color scheme and how nicely you executed it throughout.
Brilliant! (in oh, so many ways; I love it!)...maybe 'cos it reminds me of my first beloved bike at age 6 -- also red. VT has a wonderful one in the making.
Best,
Dan.
Thanks Dan ! - I'm liking the white trim on your 'fenders' ( Might make a nice finishing touch to my RST??? )
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Vintagetourer
This looks fascinating. I'm a recent Nomad MK2 owner and it's a great bike, but 4 months in I'm thinking of getting something a bit quicker for day rides and subsequently have been reading up the Thorn PDFs on the Audax. You didn't say, but I assume you have bought the frame brand new from SJS Cycles? If so, how much did they charge to have it shipped to Canberra? I am in Wellington NZ, so it would be a good guide. I see SJS has Audax frames in stock for what seems to be an excellent price of £425.00 but their shipping seems to be on the high side?
Many thanks
Tony in NZ.
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Tony freight total cost me 129 GBP. (Edit...Yes bought frame and forks new from Thorn)
This covered the frame and fork and as much else which would fit in the box including some parts eg brakes, down-tube shifters, and also tools/parts a friend wanted from SJSC which he reimbursed me for. It's charged on volume, not weight.
A slight complication is that I wanted the light Reynolds fork, but Thorn sent me the standard fork with braze-ons. Thorn accepted the error and shipped the lighter fork to me free of charge. So now I have two front fork which is OK because if I ever do want to use front panniers I can swap over the forks.
All the other bits were freight and VAT free via Wiggle, ChainReaction, Bike24 or local online retailers. I hunted for these over a few months.
My two main indulgences in components have been the Ti rack and the Brooks Ti saddle. A bit excessive, though I got the saddle at about a 30% discount. The rest of the components were also Sale prices. A friend built the wheels for me for a very reasonable fee.
I haven't done a total costing yet, and even if I provided it, it wouldn't mean much unless you could chase up the one-off sales and discounts as they come up via the various retailers over time. It's been fun!
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Vintagetourer
That is excellent info, and exactly what I was looking for, so thank you for that, and thank you for the headsup on Bike24, I hadn't heard of them, seems like a German version of Wiggle and Chainreaction? I can't believe I can buy a Rohloff Hub online, as I see they sell them, and Ortlieb, which is hard to find here in NZ.
Once again, very many thanks, very useful information.
Tony.
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Yes the Bike24 site is always worth a look at Tony, especially for German brands.
They aren't particularly cheap, and they charge freight, but they seem to have a huge range.
The majority of the components for this current build came from Chainreaction, Wiggle, Torpedo, Bike24 and Thorn.
I could have saved a lot by getting a cheaper saddle, not getting a Ti rack and not getting the light Reynolds fork.
The rest of the build is a fairly good price.
My Thorn Audax should be finished in a couple of days. So far it's looking great. Tonight we did a few final measurements. The steerer tube is the key one, as it will have to be cut to length.
The rest of it seems to be a good fit, but only a ride will confirm that.
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Vintagetourer,
Thanks for the info. I have just this very minute emailed SJS asking for an approx figure for shipping an Audax MK3 frame to NZ.
Although ... I should be saving my money for my UK trip, not thinking about adding new bikes to my collection! (collection of one that is.)
Tony
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If you are going to the UK Tony, why don't order it ahead, collect it personally and bring it home as accompanied luggage? This is how I got my Thorn Sherpa. Saved freight, VAT and GST.
A bit more of the story here:
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/reviews/board/message/?thread_id=565525
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Insert Quote
If you are going to the UK Tony, why don't order it ahead, collect it personally and bring it home as accompanied luggage?
Graham
Good idea and I have contemplated that, but I'll already have my Nomad MK2 and all my touring gear, tent, sleeping bag, you name it, so I'll be paying extra baggage fees as it is, before adding extras.
Tony
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Quite right that wouldn't work Tony. One too many bikes to carry!
I hope they give you a reasonable quote for freight. I can't imagine it will be much different to mine.
By the way, mine arrived remarkably fast. It was at the front door in about a week.
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Graham
They gave me a better quote than you had by the looks of things, at £109.
They also steered me towards the Club Tour, describing it "as it is basically an Audax on steroids" as the upper weight limit for the Audax is 95kg and I better that by quite some way.
I told the Thorn rep I wanted a faster bike for day rides and he advised me "the Club Tour will be a vast improvement on a day ride bike over a Nomad and it will be like a Land Rover Vs a Ferrari." I smiled at this reply as I have told many people, when the ask about my Nomad, that it is the "Land Rover Defender" of bicycles, so it was fascinating to see the Thorn rep using the same example.
Now that I have read the Club Tour pdf, I think it looks a very nice bike, so not at all concerned with the new recommendation.
Tony
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Great... but Tony I suggest you think carefully about it, and get a few opinions on the comparative geometries of the two frames. It's a long way for a frame to go to NZ and not be quite right.
Personally I think the Club is more comparable to a light version of (say) a Surly 700c. That is, a more relaxed geometry and a bit heavier. I also looked at the Audax vs the Club Tour.
The Audax is tight, nippy but more elongated than a 'real' racing bike ... whatever that is. The rear wheel doesn't sit as close to the front wheel as it would in a real climbing bike. The Club is slightly more stretched, And a bit more robust.
I decided that if I need to carry four panniers, then I will take my Sherpa or Bike Friday. Anything less ie max. two panniers, the Audax would do the job.
Mine is very close to finished. As soon as I have a ride, I can tell you what it's capable of.
Gut feel? Get the Audax. But get a more opinions than mine!
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where did you get the weight limit data for the audax? I'm 95kg butt naked first thing in the morning, and my audax handles me +10kg of luggage nicely.
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tony for faster day rides why not go for something like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnP3SeK3_jg
the nomad will do all your touring or loaded needs these bikes are basically speed machines.
just saying.
jags.
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... I have told many people, when the ask about my Nomad, that it is the "Land Rover Defender" of bicycles, so it was fascinating to see the Thorn rep using the same example.
That is exactly how I have considered my Nomad. I consider that "Nomad" vs "normal road bike" is like "Land Rover" vs "Lotus". And I've always been a Land-Rover-kind-of-guy.
- Dave
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Yeah Land Rover is my characterization too, but around here they look more luxury than tough. Thanks for dialing in the "Defender" model. That hits the target perfectly!
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Yeah Land Rover is my characterization too, but around here they look more luxury than tough. Thanks for dialing in the "Defender" model. That hits the target perfectly!
Unless it's a Defender (or older model), I don't consider it to be a true Land Rover. I used to own a Jeep CJ-7 (sold it to buy a ring), and anything with carpet on the floor is unnecessary luxury.
- Dave
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Honesty
where did you get the weight limit data for the audax?
I am reluctant to paste the email I received from SJS here, but here is the main paragraph.
I say reluctant, as I don't want to embarrass or make it awkward for SJS by posting what the writer thought was a private email into a public forum. If the ''forum" thinks this isn't a good idea let me know and I will remove it, as I don't feel totally respectful doing this.
QUOTE
Unfortunately I do not agree with your proposal of an Audax frame due to the weight limit of the rider being 15 stone (95kg). I understand your point that you will not ride with luggage and you will be on sealed roads but I would still strongly advise against this and I would push the Club Tour on you as it is basically an Audax on steroids.. It can carry more which will help with the rider weight and it can take a larger tyre which can also be an advantage. I do not want to sound harsh but I really want to stress about the weight limit of the bike and we would have to sale that frame without a warranty knowing this.
UNQUOTE
I am quite amazed how we all seem to refer to our Nomads as Land Rovers.
Jags, I've watched your Youtube link, I'd be too scared to ride a carbon bike at my almost 130kg, I'd be scared of snapping it. Or are these carbon frames stronger than steel, so I have nothing to worry about? I've just assumed carbon isn't as strong as a steel frame. However it would be hard to beat the 499 pounds of the Club Tour I would guess (plus another 100 for the fork.)
Wheels are sorted from wheelworks.co.nz who built my Nomad wheels and have no concern building 700c wheels for my size: White Ind T11 hubs. DT Swiss 585 rims, bladed DT Swiss Aerolite.
I really should be sensible and leave a faster bike for now, and keep saving for my UK trip!
Anyway got to go, off for a short-ish 35km ride on the Nomad. (Short as I've finished a 12 hour night shift and had 4 hours sleep, but if I had anymore I wouldn't sleep tonight)
Tony
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I have two Defenders (certainly of the utlilitarian type) but must me getting soft in my old age as I have just bought a Discovery. It has carpets and even air con - very Cushdy.
My main concern with running an Audax would be the limit on width of tyres and the pressure you would have to inflate them to; it could certainly limit the comfort factor of the bike.
Having said that if you have nice smooth roads I cannot see it being that much of an issue.
My last carbon framed bike I bought had a max rider limit of 85kg but I am sure thay do make carbon frames that would be strong enough.
I must say I am sold on wide tyres and am just waiting for a second hand xtc coming up in my size for a sportier alternative to the Nomad. Although I do keep looking at that R&B Tour with the 853 fork.
Andy
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Tony having read the advice sent to you from Thorn, I'll back pedal on my earlier opinion and agree the Club is probably the right choice. To Thorn's credit they give good, frank advice by email. They have done a lot of customer and bike match-making so should know what they are talking about.
If you get the right size Club frame, then you can shop around for trick components on sale and build a speedy, light, fun bike that will encourage you to get out and hurtle around the backroads without the encumbrance of a load.
I'm about 80kg (depending on pie intake) and 5' 10" in the old currency.
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And Tony, if you're looking at a Club Tour with slightly wider 700c tires, have a look at the new offerings by Grand Bois: http://www.compasscycle.com/tires_700C.html
Have seen a few comments and they sound great for light touring/randonneuring/day rides.
Cheers,
John
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Ah fair enough. I was told I was nearing the limit and not to go for the carbon forks when I ordered mine but was never actually told what the limit was. I went for the carbon forks anyway and they've been fine, though I am now changing these to the 853 ones.
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Ah fair enough. I was told I was nearing the limit and not to go for the carbon forks when I ordered mine but was never actually told what the limit was. I went for the carbon forks anyway and they've been fine, though I am now changing these to the 853 ones.
Hello,
In my opinion Thorn are paranoid regarding carbon forks and indeed carbon in general.
I now have carbon forks on three bikes (steel on the Club Tour) and I ride fast over numerous cattle grids through the New Forest area with no problem.
Thorn warranty Thorn bike frames because they can as the costs to them would be low. Steel overbuilt bikes are great, but the carbon fork must (I admit) make a difference to the ride.
I see no reason why any limit is imposed as after all F1 cars are built in carbon and most Tour de France bikes also. Most of these emerge unscathed by falls etc?
Best regards,
John
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everyone in the group i used to ride with up until 2 years ago including me rode carbon bike's, never once seen a problem and there were plenty of heavy weights in that group.
nothing wrong with carbon, i just prefair steel. but i would not find it diffucult to use carbon up front defo wake up the ride of the sherpa which i always found to be heavy.
but i dont like using front panniers so i suppose for loaded touring the steel works fine.
jags.
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http://tinyurl.com/kl9o4wk we have to stick to manufacturers recomendations, most carbon forks have a weight limit and an expiry date. I built a Time VRX team frame a few years ago for a friend, it had a sticker on saying to discontinue use after 2016... :-\
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Ok folks...(...and welcome Dave, source of the Thorn Audax parts and useful advice)
while we've been chatting, all those red bits have been beautifully assembled by my mechanic friend Alex.
And I'm mightily pleased. Just on 10 kg with all the accessories (except lights) fitted. Here it is unveiled in its ripe red glory:
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Now this must surely be named Testarossa. Great looking bike with 'go faster' written all over it. :)
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'Doppler' is another suggestion.
The observant will have noted the small details.:)
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cracking build well done loads of detail bet it looks great in the sunshine.
jags.
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Yes I'm delighted with the look and feel of the bike. Only one short ride this afternoon and the frame feels just right with a nice balance of spring and stiffness. Given that everything including the frame and fork was bought sight unseen and on size estimates, the fit is remarkably good.
This Thorn bike is replacing a 14 kg 1979 Ernie Clements Falcon Olympic as my daily commute bike. The difference is noticeable :)
One more pic.
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Brilliant, Graham, in every sense! Suggest you keep it close by & inside your workplace after your commute -- display it only to select & appreciative audiences like the readers of this forum & the like, not to any passer-by who'd want to pinch it. Enjoy! - John
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That is a good reminder John. Yes I was conscious of this bike not being innocuous like its predecessor. I do have a good spot to keep it at work, so it'll be fine.
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what about this lock.
http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/15/skylock-smart-bike-lock/
jags
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I wouldn't use a lock which is smarter than me :)
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;D ;D fair enough ;)
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...except if they are available in wet red:)
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theres always a rattle can. ;)
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True.
I might have to reign in this redness before it takes over.:)
As for security, I have a long-serving Kryptonite mini U-bolt I usually use.
Mostly the bike will be kept inside. Fortunately I work in a very low risk area for bike theft.
Local shops are the high risk area.
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yeah i keep my audax inside all the time if i need to go into a shop usually in the country i make surei can see it from inside,.
my friend had all his bikes stoled from his lock up shed 8000 worth of bikes he new who done it and so too did the cops but had no proof (knackers) :o
lucky his house insurance covered the loss.he now has steel doors on his shed.
jags.
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what about this lock.
http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/15/skylock-smart-bike-lock/
jags
At that price Shylock is more like it than Skylock. It's a gimmick in search of purpose.
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I'de say your on the button there Andre.
btw ive a job for you 8)
photos on face book post them here theres a good lad ;)
if you dont mind that is, i know you dont thats why i ask :-[
anto.
ps...Any word from Dan.
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(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10368223_592970264143161_5402991683874950467_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/10268679_592970377476483_4091643246642440699_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/10382773_592970477476473_4877063987388837376_n.jpg)
It's real easy, Anto.
1 .Click on the photo to go to your Facebook album.
2. Drag the photo into your Thorn post.
3. Select the URL in your Thorn post.
4. Click on the second pictograph from the left above the smileys to turn it into an inline photo in your post.
You can do it in your sleep.
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Thanks Andre I'll give it a go later on.
anto.