Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: jags on January 08, 2014, 04:16:22 PM
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ok lads i need to get my head around what is the right bike for me,
top of my list is the Thorn Audax closly followed by bob jackson world tour then i have my eye on velo orange campaur, also in the line up is Lee Cooper who used to make the bikes for thorn.
All great bike i'm certain of than but what i want to know is this,
will the thorn audax carry 2 rear panniers and barbag will it take 28mm tyres ,is it a nippy bike,good climber good decender.
i'll only get one shot at buying this new frameset and i want to be certain i'm not buying a pup.all new bikes look fantastic with a fresh coat of paint All Shiny and New but are they any good when you put them to there limits.
i have no intentions of doing fully loaded tours across deserts or off road stuff,as smooth tarmac as i can find ::) 3 maybe 5 days tops overnighters that kinda touring.
so what do you guys reckon, i'm not interested in a rohloff bike or 600 wheels.
cheers
anto.
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Hi Jags,
The Bob Jackson World Tour is touring bike that can take up to 32mm tyres and guards.
Velo Orange Campeur is a touring bike that can take 38mm tyres and guards.
The Thorn Audax can take up to 28mm with guards. This is a fast tourer or audax bike.
The Thorn will be the nippier as it is designed for fast day rides or long distance rides. Everyone who has one seem to love them and I am sure they are good climbers but I haven't tried one myself. It will take a rear rack but the chainstays are not as long as the others on your list. This means you will have to be careful the panniers can be mounted far enough back not to clip your heels when riding. Though some racks are designed to put the panniers that extra bit rearward. I would discuss this with Thorn if you don't know the measurements you need. Some have ridden these bikes on Lejog over 10 days so they do work for this kind of touring.
I am going for the new Club Tour myself as I want at least 32mm tyres and guards but I expect it to be nippy with the right wheels though the geometry is more tourer than audax.
If you just buy the frameset then you have 100 days to return it if you don't like it. A full bike only 10 days I think, though that is 10 days more than any other LBS/manufacturer.
Steve
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Excellent Steve thanks a million,as i said it is my first choice but i just need to know it will work.
i did think about the heel clearence hopefully that can be sorted.
great to hear the folks that have them are well happy with them.
jags.
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Hi Jags have a look at Spa cycles website. They do a nice Reynolds 725 touring frame for about £300 very good value. The Bob Jackson world tour is an excellent frame and is silver soldered but you have to pay extra to get Reynolds 725 tubing. Also have a look at Hewitt cycles touring frame cheviot 725 tubing and stainless steel front and rear dropouts but more expensive. All the best, Dermot
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Thanks Dermot yeah some great choices there,would you believe spa cycles don't do paypal ;D i know that may sound daft i tried ordering stuff from them before but they wanted to phone my credit card details, should have said the wife's credit card and she wont have that doesn't trust talking to a stranger with her credit card details ::) ::)
anyway its well within my price range i can't afford to go spending 7or8 hundred on a frame i reckon 500 would be my limit.
love the look of Bob Jackson ;)ass act.
cheers
jags.
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Hi Jags. If you look at my photo thread you'll see my audax with 2 panniers and a bar bag, so it definitely does it. Also Thorn say with the 853 fork anyway you can fit some 32mm tyres in there with guards (those who lie about their size anyway). That being said, the load limit on the audax is lower than a full tourer and the handling does get compromised at higher rear loads. Again thorn recommend the use of a large saddle bag. It is nippy though and very chuckable. Its amazingly stable defending. I've done 40+ mph on mine and started the scratch my nose without really thinking about it..
For 3 to 5 day tours its fantastic.
Saying all that, the frame weight + 853 forks is somewhere around 3.1 kg. A club tour is the same weight. A club tour also has the benefit of larger tyre clearences and a third water bottle mount, and if you want disc brakes. Its only a slightly more relaxed riding position, can be specced for light touring and still morph into a fully loaded tourer...
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I bought a Bob Jackson Audax End to End last year (and that may suit your needs) and have been really pleased with it. I also liked the fact that I could pick my own colour and design which makes it more individual and would say you could not go wrong with either a Thorn or Bob Jackson
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Thanks lads whats putting me off buying a full tourer is a sluggish ride,long wheel base doen't make for a good climbing bike. my sherpa was brilliant for all day cycling but i hated it when it came to climbing steep hills ,btw i aint no Marco Pantani ::).
didn't see bob jackson end to end will take a look at that.
thanks lads
jags.
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Of course another aspect to take into account is customer service. Thorn have always been exemplary IME.
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True enough Brummi and that does count for a lot ;)
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I have an Audax Mk3 and love it. I wouldn't put a camping load on but it is fine for B&B style touring. If I ever find the time to do LeJog it is the bike I will use.
Not only is it lively and fun to ride, but it is VERY comfortable - the forks just soak up poor surfaces and I happily ride it on tow paths and forest roads (though not with the original Paselas with their fragile sidewalls). I can chuck it around yet at the same time it feels really glued to the road (in a good way) - I can take my hands off the bars at 40mph down a hill without the slightest qualm. (I have my bus pass and would describe myself as a conservative rider :D)
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Wow you sure make my choice very hard,bike looks fantastic and its my colour as well .it's great to get the views of people that actually ride the Audax.
you obviously don't have a problem with heel clearence .i would have no idea what overall weight i would carrying on a weeks tour,only thing i can say is all my gear is lightweigh and packs pretty small.i can get almost everything into the carradice camper but its a struggle to be honest and very unstable on my Raleigh 753 which was never built fo touring or carrying loads ::).
thanks for the photo .
i can't buy anything this month as my daughter is getting married end of month,
i'll be in big trouble if i'm stone broke on the day. ;D
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I keep drooling over the Audax too. I figure though the easiest way to improve climbing hills with my Nomad is if I can take some of the blubber off my own frame! If I can lop off about 25 pounds and keep it off for a year... maybe I will take that next step & shave some pounds off the bike!
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Hi Jim yeah i know what you mean i sure could do with loosing a few pounds ::)actually i tried on my suit tonight for the upcoming wedding ,just about squeezed into it.
but even loosing weight my raleigh climbs a lot more quickly that the sherpa ;)
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Thorn Audax mk3 definitely gets my vote. I have owned mine for about 5 years and found it to be fast and sporty when unloaded (with 28mm tyres) yet more than capable of moderate weight touring. Last September I did W2W on it with about 8kg load and flew along the off road section just beyond Tan Hill Inn at high speed. My opinion would be that if you plan to mostly ride unladen but wish to do some moderate weight touring - the audax can not be beaten for the money. The frame still looks great (see my images in gallery).
I liked it so much I got one for my wife!
John
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Cheers John
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Hello!
My Club Tour is for camping/touring with rear panniers. I hesitate to ask, but what miniscule loads are carried by those who say the Audax is suitable for touring? Also the rear bags need to be far back to avoid heel hitting. Then of course the front of the bike leaps from the ground! If proper diligence is applied to a camping load, maybe but only maybe for one nights equipment. Bed and breakfast touring maybe but I doubt personally full camping touring...
I have (sorry jags) three Thorn Audax Mk3 bikes and one is winter use and one is summer use. The other is undecided but it does have 32 mm tyres fitted.....
All in all the bikes are great but for their intended purpose, which is lightweight fast sporty riding!
My opinion but I hope a genuine one.
Best regards,
John
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Morning John,well can't really say the weight i woud be carrying.
hopefully in the next month i'll be buying ortlieb rear rolltop panniers and tubus rear rack,also my tent will be carried on top of rack,barbag will carry the usual gear.
all in all i suppose 15 to 20 lb but thats just a guess ,
as for lightweight up front i'm not to bothered about that i'm well used to riding lightweigh bikes anyway the barbag will sort that feeling out, it did with the sherpa.
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Hi jags,
As lots of other makes were mentioned, have you considered the Condor Heritage/Fratello bikes?
While looking for the ideal fast winter commuter, I just got hold of an Heritage at a ridiculous price. The bike is fantastic, fast, can be equipped as a road bike or a a tourer, and can carry a lot of loads. I looked at Thorn Audax while looking but the Condor was a too good bargain and there were no used Audax then. As you can see in the "sale" section, some Audax can be found for £300 which to me are bargains.
I'm not too keen on buying new things, I usually let people pay the "new" price for me ;)
Good research, that's also part of the fun in cycling!
Etienne
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Hello!
My Club Tour is for camping/touring with rear panniers. I hesitate to ask, but what miniscule loads are carried by those who say the Audax is suitable for touring? Also the rear bags need to be far back to avoid heel hitting. Then of course the front of the bike leaps from the ground! If proper diligence is applied to a camping load, maybe but only maybe for one nights equipment. Bed and breakfast touring maybe but I doubt personally full camping touring...
I have (sorry jags) three Thorn Audax Mk3 bikes and one is winter use and one is summer use. The other is undecided but it does have 32 mm tyres fitted.....
All in all the bikes are great but for their intended purpose, which is lightweight fast sporty riding!
My opinion but I hope a genuine one.
Best regards,
John
Hi Anto
I am sure you won't get better advice than John has provided here, John has more experience riding (and lots of touring) various Thorn bikes than anybody I can think of on these boards.
I'm really not sure why you want a super fast climber for a touring bike while you have your Raleigh for fast day rides? But, with a Club Tour you could have a second pair of lightweight wheels for when you are not touring, as per the brochure in the old days people would race on their tourers at weekends.
I don't have personal experience of a Club Tour or a Sherpa, but I would put money on the Club Tour to be lighter and faster than your Sherpa, and a better climber. It won't be quite as responsive as an Audax but IMO the versatility for touring AND recreational riding outweighs that. Maybe John could add a comparison of his Sherpa against his Club Tours?
Sorry to cloud the issue for you Anto, but Club Tour gets my vote.
Jim
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Hello!
My Club Tour is for camping/touring with rear panniers. I hesitate to ask, but what miniscule loads are carried by those who say the Audax is suitable for touring? Also the rear bags need to be far back to avoid heel hitting.
Touring doesn't have to involve camping - it wasn't clear to me from Jags's first post that he intended to camp. How much stuff do you need to take for a week's B&B or hostelling? A change of cycling clothes, one set 'normal' clothes for evening, flip-flops, washing kit, a few bike tools/spares, camera and valuables in the bar bag, wet weather gear bungied to the rack.... it doesn't add up to very much. I wash kit in the evening and it is dry in the morning, so the same load is good for either three days or a fortnight. Heel clearance isn't a problem as you don't need big panniers - I use either Carradice Kendals (which are square and seen in the photo above) or Carradice Super C Universals which are tapered.
From the Thorn brochure:
Whilst the Mk3 Audax excels at light weight touring (less than
8Kg), the frame is strong enough to cope with medium weight
touring, it will carry up to 15Kg of luggage…on a suitable rear
carrier...if you need it to!
8Kg is 17 1/2lb so if Jags can get his camping kit near that weight he would be fine - easier in summer than winter, though. He needs to check carefully rather than guess, and allow for the weight of the various bags.
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Etienne no i didn't look at the condor YET ;)
theres so many bikes to choose from hard to get your head around them at times but still as cyclist i don't mind looking.yeah i would certainly buy second hand ,i have been looking hard but no luck as yet still im in no hurry which is just as well ;D
Jim my raleigh is useless for touring but a super bike so i reckon if can get a bike that will climb as well as it i'm on to a winner.and besides i really really want a new bikw simples.
Donerol i would be camping but i reckon i could keep my gear fairly light cloths is always a problem so i will have to sort that out big time,i have faith in the thorn audax i really dont think i would wreck the bike with the touring i have in mind. ;D
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For my 4 days of hostel touring I did last year I had 7kg on on the back in my panniers (bulkiest item, off bike shoes - wont be taking them next time. Heaviest item d-lock - got a abus cable lock for next time), 3kg in a bar bag (slr, wallet, electrical stuff, bike tools) and 2 bottles of water. The next 4 day tour will be lighter and will only be in a saddle bag and bar bag.
For climbing it seems decent, but I'm a spinner and am happy to dawdle up hills in low gears...
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To be honest, if the audax frame had another bottle holder on it it would be absolutely perfect for everything apart from long distance fully loaded touring. With the standard front forks you could even fit low loaders and carry 5kg there as well!
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Etienne no i didn't look at the condor YET ;)
If you live near Bristol and want to see one from close, you know whom to write to ;)
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Hello!
My Club Tour is for camping/touring with rear panniers. I hesitate to ask, but what miniscule loads are carried by those who say the Audax is suitable for touring? Also the rear bags need to be far back to avoid heel hitting. Then of course the front of the bike leaps from the ground! If proper diligence is applied to a camping load, maybe but only maybe for one nights equipment. Bed and breakfast touring maybe but I doubt personally full camping touring...
I have (sorry jags) three Thorn Audax Mk3 bikes and one is winter use and one is summer use. The other is undecided but it does have 32 mm tyres fitted.....
All in all the bikes are great but for their intended purpose, which is lightweight fast sporty riding!
My opinion but I hope a genuine one.
Best regards,
John
Audax Mk3 is perfectly capable of carrying a good touring load, mine carried luggage for two people plus camping gear on our Lejog ride in 2010. No problems, the front end was slightly flexy but once moving it wasn't noticeable. Plenty of heel clearance for my size 12's.
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Hi Anto
I am sure you won't get better advice than John has provided here, John has more experience riding (and lots of touring) various Thorn bikes than anybody I can think of on these boards.
I'm really not sure why you want a super fast climber for a touring bike while you have your Raleigh for fast day rides? But, with a Club Tour you could have a second pair of lightweight wheels for when you are not touring, as per the brochure in the old days people would race on their tourers at weekends.
I don't have personal experience of a Club Tour or a Sherpa, but I would put money on the Club Tour to be lighter and faster than your Sherpa, and a better climber. It won't be quite as responsive as an Audax but IMO the versatility for touring AND recreational riding outweighs that. Maybe John could add a comparison of his Sherpa against his Club Tours?
Sorry to cloud the issue for you Anto, but Club Tour gets my vote.
Jim
Hello Anto,
I loved the Sherpa and my Club Tour but the Club Tour won in the end. Although the Sherpa was a great bike and I assume still is, the Club Tour is just quicker and less lumbering. I decided the Sherpa was better used by someone who need a heavy duty bike. It is now up in Elgin North Scotland and in daily use commuting through the gales!
Club Tour in my opinion is far more useful for touring than the Audax and, whilst others have toured on an Audax I can point out that some have toured and ridden Lands end to Joh Ogroats on Bromptons and sundry other machines. If you only want or can afford one touring bike make it a Club Tour and not an Audax!
John
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Thanks everyone great to hear your expert views.
Seems i could choose either club tour or audax and still be a very happy camper.
As John said the sherpa is geared more towards the heavy duty tourer,thats the reason i bought it in the first place,i was to tour asia with a guy but he backed out,touring never entered my head until he asked me to go with him,anyway that was the reason i bought the Thorn Sherpa not that i ever regetted buying it as it opened my eyes up to different type of cycling and to be honest a much better part.
so yeah sherpa was wasted on me it needs an adventurer not a fred ::) the new owner will certainly put it through its paces for sure.
so whats it to be tour or audax stay tuned folks i'de settle for either one.
thanks everyone,
Anto.
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Seems i could choose either club tour or audax and still be a very happy camper
Reckon there are worse choices to have, jags... Look forward to reading the next chapter -- and hey! maybe even seeing the result sometime, who knows? :-)
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John if only i could talk my lovely daughter to cancel the wedding i would have that frame next week ;D ;D
ooops future hubby is a nice lad ::)
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Hi Jags,
I have an Audax Mk3 and love it. Here's my 5,000 mile review in case you missed it earlier:
http://thecyclehub.net/thorn-audax-mk3-5000-mile-review/
For me it is a great all-rounder and I bought it with the long term in mind (i.e. steel frame durability benefits). I bought the frame and got a great deal with my LBS building it up for me.
As for whether its perfect for you, it does obviously depend on the proposed use. It will take a light camping load easily and yet it is comfortable and nimble enough for a brisk unladen blast in the countryside. I started with 700x28 tyres, now on 25.
Does this help?
Doug.
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Certainly does help Doug thanks all i need is the money to buy.
anto.
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all i need is the money to buy.
Ah, I wish I could wave a magic wand for you Jags. Do those nice people in SJS have a shop soiled discount for such a prolific and loyal forum member?
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Hi Jags, from reading your posts on the forum over the past few years I get the feeling that the Audax is the bike you really want in your heart. I bought an RST in 2011, it's a great, great bike but it is also a 'jack of all trades', not quite focused enough for spirited blasts in the country (although certainly not slow by any means) or for serious touring duties, but it is a fantastic commuter bike which is the reason I bought it for. I am now hoping to add an Audax to my stable this year and maybe a Nomad one day too. I'm sure they are both great bikes but I'd be tempted to go for the Audax, see how it handles with a load and if you think you need a fully fledged tourer maybe look for a nice secondhand one.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.
Neil
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Ah, I wish I could wave a magic wand for you Jags. Do those nice people in SJS have a shop soiled discount for such a prolific and loyal forum member?
Doug,
I have just finished reading some of your 'Blog' which is a nice piece of work.
One though, you say
"Audax Mk3 Steel frame using Reynolds 858 tubing"
Where did you read or who told you this? I am not aware that Thorn Mk3 Audax is Reynolds tubing. Forks are Reynolds...........
John.
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Its not Reynolds. 858 denotes the wall thicknesses at the various butted sections. When i asked it si most similar to Reynolds 725.
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Ah, I wish I could wave a magic wand for you Jags. Do those nice people in SJS have a shop soiled discount for such a prolific and loyal forum member?
cheers Doug yeah love a magic want meself ;D ;D
btw your blog is great i had already read it few more photos would be great.
ah i dont mind waiting a while ,make the ride that more sweet ;)
cheers doug
anto.
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Hi Jags, from reading your posts on the forum over the past few years I get the feeling that the Audax is the bike you really want in your heart. I bought an RST in 2011, it's a great, great bike but it is also a 'jack of all trades', not quite focused enough for spirited blasts in the country (although certainly not slow by any means) or for serious touring duties, but it is a fantastic commuter bike which is the reason I bought it for. I am now hoping to add an Audax to my stable this year and maybe a Nomad one day too. I'm sure they are both great bikes but I'd be tempted to go for the Audax, see how it handles with a load and if you think you need a fully fledged tourer maybe look for a nice secondhand one.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.
Neil
yes Neil i agree with you for the type of touring i'll be doing it should be perfect.
i wont be carrying the kitchen sink, nor will i be doing any adventure touring like a few of the lads here :o
3 or 4 days away will do me fine, i enjoy the cycling more than i do the camping to be honest.
i'm a late bird always have been i go to bed late and get up late,when camping going to bed at 8 or 9pm wrecks my head makes for a long night usually sleepless ::)
Hah just reading back on this post i sure make for the perfect cycle tourist ;D ;D
but believe it or not i love it ,love seeing new places findind new routes love the idea of actually doing for me self when away for a few days. i'm spoiled rotten at home wouldn't boil an egg for meself worst cook on the planet.
so when i do go camping the best thing since sliced bread ,Stew in a tin... stick it on the gas stove and i'm fed happy as larry.
so yeah the Thorn Audax will suit me fine i have no doubt on that score.
cheers lads
Jags.
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Jags, Where are you based? I ask in case you'd like a test ride to help you make up your mind.
John, I'll check the sticker. Perhaps I made a mistake.
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Cheers Doug but i'm a long way from you Ireland.
ah i'm sure its the one for me seems to tick all the boxes.
it will be well into 2014 before i can afford to buy pity but all good things come to those that wait.
(and if you believe that) ;D ;D
i'm trying to sell my guitar to finance the audax but i have 2 problems about that .
my daughters wedding end of this month,and the wife has a holiday booked for may heading to spain with her buddy not my scene ::)
so bike gonna have to wait yet again.
jags.
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Jags, Where are you based? I ask in case you'd like a test ride to help you make up your mind.
John, I'll check the sticker. Perhaps I made a mistake.
Hello,
No need to check the sticker really. I have three Audax bikes and they all are labelled Thorn 858
John