Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Wheels, Tyres and Brakes => Topic started by: Znook on December 03, 2013, 12:34:53 PM
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Just came across this on the Schwalbe website, a new fast rolling touring tyre which will also be available in a tubeless version.
http://www.schwalbe.com/en/pressereader/the-fastest-marathon-ever.html
In all my years cycling I've never used tubeless tyres so I don't know much about them but it seems from the blurb they're quite tough to puncturing, more so than tubes.
Robbie
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There's a thread on these tires/tyres on CGOAB: https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/forum/board/message/?o=1&thread_id=525299&page=1&nested=0&v=1C
Mixed opinions, as one might expect, some entertaining comments as always--including a high-grade rant--and a few trick visuals.
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Roundabout fifty Euro, probably less from the discounters on the net, doesn't seem like a great deal of money for so much technology. The special rims will be a once-off expense.
However.
I've had this tyre's ancestor, the Marathon Plus which, while fast and puncture-proof in my use, was a b*st*rd to get on and off the rim, and rode like a square stone wheel on anything but a mirror-finished road, of which I have none. I upgraded to balloons and never looked back. The very words "touring tyre" make me wonder how much comfort Schwalbe sacrificed for a high load rating and/or longevity.
Also, I haven't had a puncture in around ten years, since I switched to Schwalbe's banded tyres, first Marathon Plus (and before them Bontrager's Elite which is a workalike, possibly the same thing relabeled), and then Big Apple Liteskin balloons, which have a blissfully cushy ride, superior roadholding and handling, and are pretty fast because that heavy tyre builds up its own momentum and it has very low rolling resistance already. Also, they last and last even in harsh use -- I'm the last of the late and hard brakers -- with my rear tyre having survived 7000km before it showed signs of wear; it looks like the set will make 10K, with something left in the front tyre by the time the rear tyre wears out.* (And this is with a high-torque motor in the front wheel! Amazing.)
So I have to wonder where the need for this new tyre arises.
Some people were irritated several months ago when Schwalbe withdrew some very desirable tyres, among them my fave, the Big Apple Liteskin, to make way for new tyres.
*When the Big Apple Liteskins first came out, Utopia, the makers of my bike, were advising and hoping that the Big Apple Liteskins would last 3000km, and telling people to disregard street corner chatter about high mileages with the less flexible plain Big Apple. One assumes they heard that from Schwalbe, but Schwalbe on the other hand advises people to ride the Big Apples until the band shows through. Anyway, experience of the balloons, including the touring balloons (a balloon is any low pressure tyre 47mm wide and up), has shown that 3K is a huge underestimate.
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Go Tubeless its the only way to go.
Cars,motorcycle,trucks,are alltubeless....
Pete
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PS. I'm running tubeless rim's on Tom.
Pete..:...........
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PS. I'm running tubeless rim's on Tom.
Pete..:...........
Come on man, spill the beans - just what rims are you rollin' on that beauty 8)
Robbie
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Come on man, spill the beans - just what rims are you rollin' on that beauty 8)
Robbie
Hi Robbie I think I have said which rim's i'm running in the passed but here you go
(http://www.s1ndr.com.ar/i/Llanta_mtb_Mavic_XM_819_2_1189674960.jpg)
Mavic XM819 Rim Brake rim's, they are UST http://www.mavic.com/technologie-ust (http://www.mavic.com/technologie-ust) (Tubeless Rim's).
(http://www.mavic.com/sites/default/files/styles/1164x518_techno_detail/public/ust-big.jpg?itok=nBC36yKF)
I hope this helps you :D
Pete
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whats the story on tose rims if a spoke brakes.would a fella need to carry a magnit in his tool kit to fix it up.if you puncture can a tube be used to get you back on the road.
looks like the way to go but like to be certain they work before spending the wifes cash ;)
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Not sure if my motorcycling experience is relevant or transferable, but FWIW:
> I have Michelin tubeless fore & aft on my old-but-still-sound airhead. They're wonderfully sticky tires, and gave me no problems--that is, none whatsoever, nada--on my transcontinental trek this summer, 12,000-plus kms. And I still have 50% wear remaining.
> But, a few years back, I had a slow leak in an earlier front tire (also Michelin) from a hefty thumbtack which I picked up somewhere & which remained embedded. The tire had little wear at the time, so my mechanic added a tube to enable me to get full wear from the tire and avoid $200 +/- to replace a nearly-new tire. Ummmm -- don't like the implications of that very much. Why not simply use a tubed tire? The benefits from modern rubber are undeniable--how much are these due to tubelessness? Not obvious to me that they are--how much difference does a few ounces of unsprung weight make on a 225 kg motorcycle?
> The adventure-motorcycling guys I know use tubes, because of the difficulties in repairing tubeless tires in the boonies, particularly the difficulty of ensuring a snug fit on expensive alloy rims. (Tubeless-tire repair for motorcycles involves putting glue + a plug into the hole, and then riding the bike at modest speed to a repair shop. Ummm...don't like the implications of that very much.) Big rips in a m/c tubeless can't be bodged the way one can fit part of an old bike-tire carcass inside a ripped sidewall -- for that reason, back-country m/c riders carry a spare tire, sometimes more than one. There's also the fear of damaging expensive rims--no foldables on off-road or dual-purpose m/c's. Maybe not such an issue with bicycles? The CGOAB thread suggests that's the case -- MTB riders use slime, I gather.
So, w.r.t. tubeless on touring cycles, I'd be inclined to "wait and see" for a bit--he said, judiciously; or "let someone else experiment", he said, weaseling out...
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I'd have to back up Andre on this - having had 14,000kms (twice) on two sets of Vittoria Randonneur Cross 26x1.75" tyres, and now another 5,000kms on some Randonneur Pros, with zero penetration punctures, I really don't see the need for them on an expedition touring bike.
Buy good reliable and tough wearing tyres and save yourself the grief of having to deal with a punctured or 'burped' tubeless tyre in the wilds.
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Well Well,
1st off Tubeless UST Mountain Bike rim's and tyres have been around for over ten years! they work and it's all about how well tubeless tyres roll.
But a lot of people can out with ways to make none Tubeless Rim's Tubeless? yes they work good most of the time (UST rim's and Tyre work 100% all the time) how most people run STD tyres Tubeless? yes this works and its lighter too. you just have to use sealant in the tyres :) (like Stan's No Tubes)
2nd Road bike's have had Tubeless Tyres for a few years (about 5 years) the high pressures (100 to 120psi) needed strong beads! this is why on road bikes you can only ride Tubeless Tyres safely on road bike tubeless.
3rd repairing Tubeless tyres on bicycles is easy! you just use STD patch kit and patch the inside of the Tyre (just like patching a tube).
But if you run Sealant in your tyres you will not have to repair any holes under a nail hole size as the Sealant will seal up your tyre and you just have too top up the air a few PSI.
PLEASE NOTE: you can remove the tyre valve and fit a tube at any time.
4th Motorcycles (like cars) are far safer Tubeless as 85% of the time if you puncture your tyre will go down slowly.
Motorcycle tyres (and car tyres) are a pain to repair! You have too use Mushroom patches and drill the hole a little bigger, glue, and patch (mushroom). (because of the speed the Motorcycles and Cars go at!)
If you ride with a tube in your tyre and puncture you will crash (Painful).
5th Yes some Adventure Motorcyclists do use tubes! But I do not because you can fix a Motorcycle tyre in only a few Min's with Wick's (like here http://youtu.be/IdyLRdTRN3M (http://youtu.be/IdyLRdTRN3M))
6th You can only use Wicks for 1000 plus Km's and its a must have when your riding a Motorcycle! Have to remove wick and repair with a Mushroom. NOTE: some bad repair places use wicks to repair you Car and Motorcycle Tyres NOT SAFE after 1000 plus km's! :(
7th PLEASE NOTE: I have been a Motorcycle Mechanic for over 30 years!
How repairing Bicycle's and ride Bicycles, have been for over 40 years! (almost Old turn 50! next year!)
Please be nice too me! and Have fun Cycling :)
Pete 8)
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whats the story on tose rims if a spoke brakes.would a fella need to carry a magnit in his tool kit to fix it up.if you puncture can a tube be used to get you back on the road.
looks like the way to go but like to be certain they work before spending the wife's cash ;)
Hi with the Mavic rims you have a Nut (Thing) that your nipple fit's into and you screw the Nut (thing) into the rim! so you can replace a spoke (or Nipple) at any time.
(http://www.moruyabicycles.com.au/contents/media/mavic%20screwed%20eyelet.jpg)
Nut Things
(http://www.bikyle.com/images/MavicUST.jpg)
A cross cut of rim, Nut (thing), Nipple, Spoke.
Pete 8)
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Very helpful overview, Pete. Well done and very much appreciated!
Best,
Dan.
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Fascinating, Pete. Thanks for showing us the gory details. Saves having to look it up.
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3rd repairing Tubeless tyres on bicycles is easy! you just use STD patch kit and patch the inside of the Tyre (just like patching a tube).
Yes, sounds all vey handy for tubeless use. But just to clarify - my understanding is that to re-seat the tubeless tyre after a repair you need a sudden burst of pressure ie. from a compressor ideally, or a good stand pump maybe. Not the sort of thing you'd be carrying on a major (multi-day) bush expedition.
Or am I mistaken and tubeles has become more user-friendly...... for a cycle tourist?
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very clever set up i like it.especally if its a doddle to fix a flat when out for a spin. ;)
show us a photo of your complete wheel please Pete.
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"nut things" from the NZNuts guy... Priceless! :)
Pete, I'm gonna look you up and shout you a beer next time I'm across the ditch!! :D ;D
Slammin!
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very clever set up i like it.especally if its a doddle to fix a flat when out for a spin. ;)
show us a photo of your complete wheel please Pete.
Hi Yes and No!
1st Most people run sealant in tyres so no need to fix your tyre, just remove nail etc and ride on.
2nd If you run Tubeless tyre and rim's you can pump up again with a STD bicycle pump (98% of the time)
3rd If your using None Tubeless Tyre, none Tubeless Rim etc! Yes you will need a air hose at a workshop etc, or a CO2 to pump up.
But I just carrie a Tube and fit it if I do flat and fix once home.
Happy Cycling
Pete
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Please be nice too me!
Thanks, Pete, for an excellent scan of the tubeless horizon. Looked at your youTube vid of the m/c repair -- very helpful. I have a Stop'n'Go kit with threads (=wicks) & mushrooms, but not the trick screw-in device.
Good to know too that you've had such good experience with bike tubeless tires, and your spiffy Mavic rim too. I think I may still "wait n see" a bit -- but if you want to come do a demo in the Ottawa Valley, be pleased to offer you a room!
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But I just carrie a Tube and fit it if I do flat and fix once home.
What an idea, just carry a spare tube!
Um........
Yeah :-\
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Blimey I only posted about a new tyre coming out and the gates have opened ;D
Loving everyone's input here guys, as I'm sure others new to this area of bicycling will too. Fascinating stuff and I may try out Pete's Mavic suggestion on my plain ole Spesh MTB just to see what they're actually like.
Robbie.
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You've done a Good Thing without knowing it, Robbie! Actually, I think we're all entranced by The Nut Thing, which holds the whole enterprise together. -- J.