Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Wheels, Tyres and Brakes => Topic started by: Matt2matt2002 on October 11, 2013, 08:22:38 AM
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Running Schwelbe 1.75 front and rear on my 2 year old Raven.
Very happy with them but showing signs of wear. No punctures yet. Love them to bits.
I have a pair of 2.00 stored away for my planned long tour abroad as well as a folding one for back up.
My riding around Aberdeen Scotland consists of 95% Tarmac 5% bike path/ compact cinders/ dirt / unloaded.
My tours consist of weekends away in hostels with x2 front panniers on the the rear rack. Not a lot of weight.
Any suggestions for a lighter tyre with good milage?
Thanks folks.
Matt
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Matt, I have been running 1.75" Marathon Plus on an RST and they are near indestructible, but just too heavy. Previously I felt that 1.5" Panaracer Pasela/Hi Roads did a good job, being reasonably light but durable. Thorn certainly used to fit them as standard equipment, and if you search back in this part of the forum there is a thread or two discussing their merits. Some like them and some don't.
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Like Paulson, I've been running Marathon Plus (700x32) for nearly a year without incident. For my new build I've been considering Marathon Supreme which are a lot lighter but still with good protection:
http://www.schwalbe.co.uk/tour/marathon-supreme/ (http://www.schwalbe.co.uk/tour/marathon-supreme/)
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Marathon Supremes are good all rounders, including loaded touring. I use 1.6". Example of what they can handle on tour is at
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/laketolake
and my review of the Supremes with quite a range of comments
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/reviews/board/message/?thread_id=350687
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Best tyres I've ever used 26x1.75 Vittoria Randonneur Cross. first pair that I ran were retired uninjured - 14,000kms and zero punctures. That included routine commuting plus plenty of rough road touring, often fully loaded. And known riding thorugh puncture-prone thorn country and broken glass on roads.
Winners - no penetrations and ~700g compared to 1100g for the Marathon Plus in the same size.
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If you can get them folding 2" Marathon Duremes are the best general purpose tyres I have ever come across. One slight vice is that small chippings can get stuck in the tread but I've had no problems as a result of this apart from a ticking noise when getting back on to good roads. Stability on rough tracks and wet muddy roads is great and the rolling on good surfaces is as good as much narrower tyres.
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i love the supreams great tyre but who am i to argue with il padrone 14000 sounds good to me. ;)
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I used 2.0" folding bead Supremes for a loaded tour through France and Spain in 2011. Mostly tarmac and reasonably good cyclepaths, but some rougher bits.
Very light for such a wide tyre, and roll very well. I did wonder whether they would resist rough tracks with a month's load of luggage (all up weight was between 109 and 123 Kg depending on food stocks and rider's fat level, the later dropped during the tour). In the event the Supremes held up fine, just as well because I decided to risk it and not take a spare, reasoning that in civilised Europe I could probably get a 26" tyre fairly easily if necessary.
For off-road use, obviously not as much grip as a proper MTB tyre or even something like a Dureme. The Supreme's sidewalls are thin so probably more risk of failure if you hit a sharp rock.
So far, good puncture resistance and good durability - the moulding in the centre of the tread on the front tyre is still visible after 7,000 kms. And not too expensive at 32 euros from my local bike shop.
Dureme is a bit heavier, in my opinion slightly slower, but better protection on the sidewalls.
Subjective, but I reckon the 2.0 Supremes roll better than the 1.65 Marathons I have on my old commuter bike. The Supreme is certainly lighter at 565 g compared to 820 g. I'd rather go for a fat but light tyre rather than reduce the section to try and save weight.
For a more demanding tour, I would be tempted to keep the Supremes, but carry a spare just in case.
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The plain Marathon (with GreenGuard) in 40mm width (26X1.5) worked very well for me on pavement with a heavy load, for your light load should also work very well. Thinner than you are used to and likely higher pressure so could be a rougher ride. I used the wired bead.
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what about the grand bios touring tyre ;)
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what about the grand bios touring tyre
Full pics and descriptions of Grand Bois tires on the Compass Bicycles parent site here: http://www.compasscycle.com/tires.html
Grand Bois tires are essentially Panaracer Paselas made with a great deal of love and care. They enjoy an excellent reputation among the 650B randonneur crowd, and are very nice indeed (the Hertres I saw recently were in a class by themselves, works of red-treaded art). It would be nice to try a pair of Grand Bois' in 26" size, but unlike Schwalbe's offerings, they really aren't aimed at the Expedition Touring audience. They might well be the ideal all-'round to go-fast tire, however. Can't wait to read more user reports on the 26" models.
Grand Bois tires are currently sold in the UK by Planet-X Bikes ( www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk ), and Cyclotouriste ( http://cyclotouriste.co.uk ). It might pay to keep an eye on them, as Compass are a sister brand by the same mfr/distributor, so these two stockists would be likely to pick up Compass tires (tyres) when they become available.
Related threads on this Forum:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4206.msg19302#msg19302
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=5181.msg27183#msg27183
Related threads on other Fora (these comments apply directly to the 700C versions but might prove helpful for 26in as well):
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-831158.html
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/730178-Any-experience-with-the-Grand-Bois-quot-Cerf-quot-26mm-tire
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/814633-Grand-bois-Cerf-700x29-versus-Challenge-Parigi-Roubaix-700x29-opinions
Italian Challenge Parigi (Paris)-Roubaix clincher tires are coming on strong as challengers for the 700C crowd. See:
Company site: http://www.challengetech.it/products/en (mostly tubulars listed)
Review: http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/08/bikes-and-tech/reviews/review-challenge-parigi-roubaix-clinchers_188346
Review: http://blog.wiggle.com/2013/06/13/taming-the-pave-with-the-challenge-paris-roubaix-tyres/
Bicycle Quarterly tire review here: http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/BQ64TireTest.pdf
Best,
Dan.
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"My riding around Aberdeen Scotland consists of 95% Tarmac 5% bike path/ compact cinders/ dirt / unloaded.
My tours consist of weekends away in hostels with x2 front panniers on the the rear rack. Not a lot of weight."
I am also looking around for tyres for very light touring on my Thorn Sherpa when I get a lightweight second wheel set for it.
In contention are the 1.6" Schwalbe Supremes which I know are good.
I'm also looking at 1.35" Schwalbe Duranos or Kojaks. Unknown to me but they look OK on paper for light work.
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I would have thought 1.35" tyres will be too narrow for a Sherpa. Its a heavy bike for touring and probably would not work well on skinny rubber. You also want to check the minimum width for the rims. Go for the 1.6 supremes they are a good compromise for this type of riding.
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The 1.35" tyres would be a bit narrow on my current heavy wheels, but they will be worth a try on the DT Swiss XR 425 rims which I'm using to make a second light wheel set for use on light and unloaded tours with the Sherpa.
A fair bit of the weight of the Sherpa is in the expedition weight wheels. It's actually not such a heavy bike without the big Rigida CSS wheels.
The 1.6" Supreme tyres run nicely even on the heavy weight rims. They are what I usually use for touring on mixed surfaces with medium weight loads.
The Thorn brochure mentions the 1.5" Panracer Paselas as another option for good roads. Personally I think their sidewalls are a bit frail for touring. Schwalbe Marathon Racers are another candidate for light and unloaded tours. Bike24 have a good selection of tyres.
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Sherpa drivers,
I have a RT with Rigida Grizzly rims, and I do have a comment about the 1.35 Kojaks. They were actually a pretty cool tire, but I had 2 issues with them. First, and it may not apply to Sherpas, but I've always thought the handling on my RT was rather 'twitchy', or light. I ride the bike unloaded on paved Rail-Trails and roads. Dan wrote a great little article on the effect of higher pressure tires on trail, and I then understood why Thorn suggested a wider, lower pressure tire. For me, the handling felt much safer and more stable with the 1.5 Paselas. Second, with the hot, hot, hot roads here in Florida, the Kojaks just ATE glass. Wow, what a cut. I don't think that would have happened with the Paselas, but of course I couldn't know.
If you lived near me, I would say 'come over and try them out'. :)
I've been reading about the Compass tires too, just not in the mood for buying tires right now.
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Dan wrote a great little article on the effect of higher pressure tires on trail, and I then understood why Thorn suggested a wider, lower pressure tire.
A little treatise on how tire profile and pneumatic trail affect bicycle design and handling:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4245.0
Best,
Dan.
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In contention are the 1.6" Schwalbe Supremes which I know are good.
Thanks for that
I have looked on the SJS site and they are listed as folding.
Do they come in any other form? And if so, which one is best?
And the price is equal to the tyres I run on my car!
How come?
Matt
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The Thorn brochure mentions the 1.5" Panracer Paselas as another option for good roads. Personally I think their sidewalls are a bit frail for touring. Schwalbe Marathon Racers are another candidate for light and unloaded tours. Bike24 have a good selection of tyres.
I'm currently running the 1.5" Vittoria Randonneur Pro folding tyres. They seem to roll pretty quick and have a nce slick tread with the awesome Vittoria puncture protection.
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I would agree with Vintagetourer. I recently used the Panaracer Pasela 26"x1.75 on a long tour and they worked well with a heavily loaded bike. However they gave up after about 6000km of mixed road and track mainly due to sidewall problems. There was still plenty tread on them. Tread puncture protection was good but I suspect I had a couple of punctures due to the thinner sidewalls.
I replaced them with Schwalbe Marathon Plus which has a stronger side wall. They run a bit heavier than the Paselas but are better built for more loaded touring.
I miss the comfort of the Paseals and would not hesitate to buy 1.5 or 1.75 Paselas for a light touring or commuting bike. For heavy and off-road the Marathon Plus is better and more stable at low speed.
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I miss the comfort of the Paseals and would not hesitate to buy 1.5 or 1.75 Paselas for a light touring or commuting bike. For heavy and off-road the Marathon Plus is better and more stable at low speed.
For heavy touring consider the Vittoria Randonneur 1.5" or Randonneur Cross 1.75". Both have the puncture protection like the Marathon Plus, but 2/3 the weight. They are heavier than the Pasela, but seemingly much tougher and longer wearing. I routinely get 12,000 - 14,000kms from these tyres with zero punctures. The 26x1.75 Randonneur Cross weighs ~780g compared to 1100g for the Marathon Plus and about 480g for the Pasela.
In my opinion the Marathon Plus is a suitable tyre for commuting in particularly bad areas with severe glass/debris on the roads. For routine commuting and rough road touring the lower weight and virtually equivalent puncture protection of the Randonneur series is much better.
They are tough
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_06q5UyjMxxw/RpV_qb4biAI/AAAAAAAAACc/eldv7xMf7VU/s1600/screw07.jpg
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Yes, I'm with Il Padrone on Marathon plus. Great for glass strewn commuting but I'd prefer standard marathons, supremes or duremes depending on your taste and wallet. I can't comment in Vittorias. The Panaracer TG were very comfortable for the first 150 miles before the side wall split.
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The Randonneur Cross 1.75" look good! I have read a few long-distance touring blogs and this tyre looks good. I do like the Marathon Plus but yes, a bit heavier. Happy with them for the moment and no punctures. Some kids smashed a bottle on a cycle path in front of me on the summer tour. I turned round and smiled - you should have seen their faces when I continued on puncture free! ;D
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I too admire the sturdiness and serious cut and puncture resistance of the Marathon Plus, but it is a really harsh-rding tyre even at 37mm and the lowest permissible pressure. I wouldn't want to do a high daily mileage on the Marathon Plus (especially now that I'm accustomed to the cushy ride and low rolling resistance of Big Apple low pressure balloons).
That said, more of my bikes have Marathon Plus, or the workalike Satellite Elite from Bontrager, than any other kind of tyre; it's probably the most economical tyre I've ever owned!
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Andre
You are correct. The Marathon Plus is built rugged and for heavy loads and does that very well over rough and glass strew paths. 'Slow and steady as she goes' is fine. After changing from the Paselas to the Marathon Plus in London, I did feel more 'bullet proof' with regards to getting a puncture. I may have just lost confidence in sturdiness of the Paselas.
It is difficult to describe but the Marathon Plus seemed a bit more sluggish at speed with more stability while slowly negotiating rough path or round obstacles. Or maybe it was just the constant up-hill back up to Scotland from London. ;)
A fine tyre all the same.
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Or maybe it was just the constant up-hill back up to Scotland from London. ;)
Or maybe we're just spoilt for choice because manufacturers have launched so many new and (sometimes) better tires. When I first fitted Marathon Plus, there weren't all these other Marathon types, Duremes and Supremes and whatnot, available. Back then you took the plain Marathon or the Marathon Plus, or you rode on Pasela, and later Conti and Vittoria, and that was it in puncture-resistant tyres, except for some Vredestein that were a special import from Germany or maybe The Netherlands.
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The Randonneur Cross 1.75" look good!
Richard, Padrone, where do you find the Vittoria Rando Cross 26 X1.75's? Vittoria's current N American catalogue doesn't list those tires. I've had very good experience with my Vittoria Rando Pro 700 x 32 foldables & for that reason would look at the Rando Cross 26 x 1.75 for my New Raven next spring -- but can't seem to find them in Canada at least. Any advice from further east?
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A quick check seems to indicate they are getting harder to find in 26", often available in 700C. I get mine from a local shop here in Australia.
REI have them (http://www.rei.com/product/709111/vittoria-randonneur-cross-26-x-175-tire), and so do every bicycle tire (http://www.everybicycletire.com/shopping/pc-2193-1-26-x-175-vittoria-randonneur-cross-wire-bead-559.aspx) as well as Bike Tires Direct (http://www.biketiresdirect.com/product/vittoria-randonneur-cross-26-inch-tire). There are also some listed on ebay.
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Thanks! I'll check REI & e-Bay. Had pencilled in 26 x 1.6 Supremes, with 1.75 Marathon racers as Plan B, but I'll see if I can find some Rando Cross as well. - J.
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"I have looked on the SJS site and they are listed as folding"
If you looking for the Supremes, or any other of the tyres mentioned on this thread, I'd suggest you shop around on more than one site. For example, Bike24, Wiggle, Chain Reaction, Evans and many others offer a wide range of products and prices. Looking at only the SJSC site for tyres will narrow your options considerably.
Folding tyres will save you a bit of weight over wire bead clinchers.
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I´ve been running the ones recommended by Thorn when i bought my Sherpa which are the 1.75 panaracer Tourguards.
they´re very light and i´ve been puncture free(touch wood) for the last 1500 miles (1200 of that has been loaded touring through France and into Spain on 90% tarmac , the other 300 miles was mostly day rides of 60% tarmac lightly loaded but gravel/bumpy forest tracks)
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Thanks. I do shop around but wondered if they are all folding.
If they come either way, what is the difference in quality?
Does one have a thinner wall?
Matt
"I have looked on the SJS site and they are listed as folding"
If you looking for the Supremes, or any other of the tyres mentioned on this thread, I'd suggest you shop around on more than one site. For example, Bike24, Wiggle, Chain Reaction, Evans and many others offer a wide range of products and prices. Looking at only the SJSC site for tyres will narrow your options considerably.
Folding tyres will save you a bit of weight over wire bead clinchers.
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26x1.6 Supremes only come as folding bead, but 26x2.0 come as rigid bead version as well as folding.
Full details on the Schwalbe website http://www.schwalbe.co.uk/tour/marathon-supreme/
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Thanks. I do shop around but wondered if they are all folding.
If they come either way, what is the difference in quality?
Does one have a thinner wall?
Folding tyres don't have the stiff wire bead of standard tires. The wire bead is supposed to help the tyre stay on the rim, but I've never noticed folding tires having any difficulty staying on the rim, even though I generally run the lowest permissible inflation pressure. In fact, these days I run folding tires as my everyday tyres, rather than as just a carrying spare. It may of course just be a case of Occam's Razor, the obvious explanation being true, that with standardization of mass manufactured rims and tires, the bead on the tyres and the bead retainer on the rim are both made with greater precision. and thus stick together better.
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Matt, for the past couple of years I've used foldable touring tires (Vittoria Randonneur Pro). They're much easier to remove and remount than the wire-beaded versions I've used until now (Panaracer and Continental); and they're lighter too. I'll not use wire-beaded tires again unless there's no other option available.
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For touring, folding tyres save some weight, are easier to fit, easier to carry as a spare ... but yes they do cost more.
I use cheaper wire bead tyres on my commuter bike, but use folding tyres for touring and long day rides.
Minimising spinning weight means less fatigue and more fun for more distance travelled on tour. Hills, wind and luggage provide enough workload without adding tyre weight and rolling resistance into the mix.