Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Rohloff Internal Hub Gears => Topic started by: JimK on May 24, 2013, 01:21:12 PM
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Seems that these folks: http://www.ovotandem.co.uk/
are making a trigger shifter for the Rohloff:
http://www.velovisionmag.co.uk/showStory.php?storynum=1263
the mention is down the page maybe ten photos or so.
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Well found, Jim; nice job! That's a pretty interesting implementation of the idea.
There's some other real gems at that link you posted as well. Among them, the 135mm Schmidt dynohub intended for Surly's fat-tire bikes...that is threaded so it could be used on the rear for the first time (provided one rrides Fixed), and a whole slew of SONs with single-sided mounts intended for use on trikes. I like the Szatuna Hungarian velocar very much, and the Urbix carriers for light bikes, though I'm not sure how their curves would get along with Ortlieb hooks, Schwalbe's new belted version of the Durano tire...good, intriguing stuff at SPEZI 2013.
I have made inquiry to the shifter's inventor and will report back as soon as I receive a reply regarding availability and price.
Best,
Dan.
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Beautifully made and finished. But otherwise I'm not impressed. First you have to punch a button to tell the switch which direction you're switching. It interferes with the ease and speed of Rohloff gear changes. Schlimmbesserung is portmanteau German for "an 'improvement' that makes things worse".
A simple two-way trigger would be so much simpler (and cheaper) to make and operate!
Andre Jute
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Further down Jim's interesting page, I love the laminated wood bike frame. Many years ago I designed and built a 68ft moulded wood yacht which I raced across the Southern Ocean several times, and in which I made passage around Cape Horn twice, and the hull is still sailing the Indian Ocean. Laminated wood is a very clever material, good as steel if done right, vastly superior to aluminum for bike frames. Prettier too.
Andre Jute
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First you have to punch a button to tell the switch which direction you're switching
I thought that too at first, Andre. However, a closer look reveals the buttons likely just flip the ratchet pawl, so the movement would take place in essentially one move: Press on the button to flip the ratchet, then continue the same press to move the larger lever in the same direction.
I'm hoping the ratchet-release would allow multiple shifts or "sweep shifting" if one continued to press or pull.
It looks like a brilliant adaptation. It would sure be nice to get hands on one to see. I'm hoping for a reply soon. Schlimmbesserung is portmanteau German for "an 'improvement' that makes things worse"
"Spes fontes aeternaml" * ;)
All the best,
Dan. (...who loves seeing intriguing, tantalizing stuff like this that sometimes comes to market)
*Hope springs eternal
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Wow! What a revelation!
Whoever said European engineering was dormant hasn't been paying attention. I'm lusting after one of those pretty little shaft-drive recumbents. Simplicity in design, low weight, low maintenance, no gummy chain. I love the little rack suspended in the back. Sigh...
I'm going to look her up when I get over there in September. (Hope my wife doesn't find out... ;))
Sam
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I'm hoping the ratchet-release would allow multiple shifts or "sweep shifting" if one continued to press or pull.
Of course we all wish that your hope will be realized. Me, I think I will prepare by scouting out a new old stock triangular shifter, and also try one of Herr Rolhloff's newfangled round ones.
Andre Jute
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Hi All!
I just received a very prompt email response to my query by Richard Cresswell at Ovo Tandem.
He says they are in the midst of making the first small batch of shifters and are using CNC production to reduce cost -- currently expected to be under £150.
He expects them to be in stock ready for sale in a couple weeks and will forward the link when his web page is up. I will post it on so all can see.
He has posted a YouTube video of the shifter in action here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxROkCIreMQ&feature=youtu.be It appears to work very smoothly, allows sweep-shifts, and left-or-right mounting (probably by flipping the unit) and a multitude of placement options including the possibility for an STI-like setup on reversed 'bars. It would be terrific if it could be mounted near the inside of the brake lever on drop handlebars.
More as it becomes available.
Best,
Dan.
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Thanks for this, Dan. The Ovo-shifter is intriguing--I could imagine mounting it close to the brake lever on my rando bars, or possibly on an auxiliary bar mount a little further inboard. The more vertical mounting in the video made me wonder about rain and airborne crud finding its way into the ratcheting mechanism. Trust/hope that the mounting will have shims to accommodate bars of different diameters.
In a hardly-related vein, I was interested to learn of your nautical background! I've sailed across a few oceans, back in the day, but on big ships. You might enjoy a very good read, written by Nicholas Coghlan, a former colleague of my wife -- Winter in Fireland: A Patagonian Sailing Adventure. It's his account of sailing from Cape Town to Puerto Montt in Chile, including wintering over in Puerto Williams in the Beagle Channel on the opposite shore from Ushuaia. (I don't do watery stuff at such levels, though "messing about in boats" is good fun (see below).
J.
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In a hardly-related vein, I was interested to learn of your nautical background!
Hi John!
That would be our Andre you have in mind; my nautical experience consists of time in a 17ft aluminum canoe, capped by a glorious entry into Vancouver Island's Esquimalt Yacht Club in the '70s with the glib reply, "Hawaii" uttered when asked where I had arrived from. ;D
Though I dearly love the water, I don't swim (allergy to chlorine makes me impersonate a strawberry on exposure, and the rivers, streams, and lakes here'bouts are too often too cold for a beginner to learn. I can, however, float face-down indefinitely, a dubious skill at best), so spend less time on boats than I would prefer but truly enjoyed the photo of your own Wat'ry Adventures.
All the best,
Dan. (who too often goes...<glub-glub> in the water)
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You're right, Dan. Mea culpa -- I managed to conflate you & Andre, if "conflate" is the word I (or you, or he) want...
Sunday mornings in early summer blur all the boundaries -- must be the sunshine :-)
J.
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Hi All!
I have heard from Richard Cresswell again, and he has kindly added a bit more information to answer our questions. He tells me......the lever has a separate attachment clamp which is screwed to the underside of the main body and can be positioned at intervals of 15 degrees which seems to allow enough adjustment to put the lever on most bars we have tried so far.
This would be ideal in allowing a variety of placements and might indeed make it possible to mount near a brake hood on drop handlebars. The brochure copy further adds...Each movement can change two gears at a time – up or down. The action can be suited for the left or right handed and there is a full 360 degree adjustment to personalise the mechanism on the handlebars. Costing is expected to be around £150.00
I have Mr. Cresswell's permission to attach a still photo from his brochure, below.
Best,
Dan.
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That business in the canoe looks dangerous, John. I'm a sailor of the careful sort. There are bold sailors and old sailors but no bold old sailors...
Dan, I don't swim well either. Most serious sailors don't bother to learn. It won't save you in the Southern Ocean where the hypothermia will get you in eight minutes. It's like your Playa, but with icy water rather than clay-dust.
Andre Jute
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That business in the canoe looks dangerous, John. I'm a sailor of the careful sort. There are bold sailors and old sailors but no bold old sailors...
Dan, I don't swim well either. Most serious sailors don't bother to learn. It won't save you in the Southern Ocean where the hypothermia will get you in eight minutes. It's like your Playa, but with icy water rather than clay-dust.
Andre Jute
Ha Ha to You and Dan,
I paddled Grade 5+ for year WW Kayaking! (Class 6 for people in the USA) and at the time I was not a very good Swimmer too.
I almost died for the second time Kayaking down a Grade 5 Water Fall with a long swim after I landed up side down and pop my deck off :o
O' Well I have leaned from that :-\
That is why my Phone Number is 0 - - K A Y A K S :)
Pete... :o
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O' I like the shifter be would like it under the Handlebars
Pete
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I paddled Grade 5+ for year WW Kayaking! (Class 6 for people in the USA) and at the time I was not a very good Swimmer too.
Class 6! :o That is why my Phone Number is 0 - - K A Y A K S
Mine would be 0 - - N00000! :-\O' I like the shifter be would like it under the Handlebars
Looks like it would fit there just fine, Pete.
Best,
Dan. (...whose current motto remains "Live to see another day")
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Class 6! :o Mine would be 0 - - N00000! :-\Looks like it would fit there just fine, Pete.
Best,
Dan. (...whose current motto remains "Live to see another day")
Hi Dan,
Rule Number One is to keep Safe be Safe 8)
The River (or Track) will still be there in the Morning :o So no point in being Mad and unsafe ???
So I have not and will (at this time) Paddle Grade 6 or 7 (Class 6+ to 7 for you Dan ;D ) do you have word Phone Numbers in the USA?
As for you Motto??? "Live to See Another Day" is miss "First You Have Too Live"
Back to the Shifter! I would love to order one today! but will have to wait until I have a full time job (Work for the USA :D ) I have over the year's sat down and been design new shifter for my Rohloff's but have not had the gear to make one :(
I think an Until Trigger Shifter for Rohloff Hub's would be the only way to go....... . . . . . . . . . .
Pete :-*
Note: A very good Grade 7 river is only 6 km's away from my front door!
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Thanks, Pete. Our rapids are only Class II (of VI), so they look worse than they are. Me, I don't take my boat into Class III, 'cos I don't fancy trekking for 3 - 4 days if I wreck it... Be safe, or pole pole, as they say in Tanzania.
But back to Rohloff shifters, ratcheting and standard: Dan, I did some measuring and visualizing, to locate the Ovo-ratchet shifter on my rando bars, and I think I'd like to place the shifter in the curve of the bars just aft of the hoods, more or less horizontal & at right angles to the bars, to allow ready thumb-shifting. (Other options might include vertical mounting, close to the brake lever.) How to locate them within the rando-curve-and-rise?
I wrote to Problemsolvers.com yesterday, and invited them to produce a larger version of their well-made and well-rated Universal Bar Mount. This has an 80 mm x 22.2mm bar, fixed by an HB clamp which works with bars from 25.4 mm to 31.8 mm. The accessory bar appears to be about 25-30 mm from the HB. So, I gave them a problem and a solution: I haven't been able to find a larger HB-mounted acc bar, so recommended that they produce a second HB-mounted accessory bar, but with a clamp which locates the bar about 55 - 60 mm from the handlebar. That would allow me to mount either a Roholff standard shifter or the Ovo-ratchet nicely within the curve of my rando bars.
Will advise on what reply I get. I said to Problemsolvers that there's a cottage industry devoted to mounting Rohloff shifters on drop bars, and offered to test their prototype for them, and buy it if it works. I think there's probably a larger, non-Rohloff market for a good-quality universal mount, one step larger that the one which Problemsolvers now offer. (Similarly, Thorn could probably offer & sell an HB-mounted version of its stem-mounted acc bars as well.)
J.
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Hi John!
Reading through your list of requirements, I can happily tell you it is really easy to make one's own mount to place a Rohloff shifter on drop handlebars -- easy, safe, reliable, and sized perfectly for holding a Rohloff shifter pretty much wherever you please -- including mid-curve on your Rando 'bars if you wish, and you can adjust the offset or standoff at will when making it.
I've made a number myself as stubs to mount my cycle-computers to the sides of my quill stems so as to leave the handlebars unencumbered. They have all come out well, even though I made mine "the hard" way and spent extra time to finish-dome the ends of tubular aluminum that had once been handlebar stock and then used a milled-down conduit plug for the hole before fine-polishing the lot.
You really can whomp out one of these things in about 20 minutes with nothing more than a hacksaw...perhaps a file if you wish to be neat. Parts list includes a section of spare MTB-sized (22.2mm OD) handlebar, a brake lever clamp, and *either* a threadless stem cap or a bar-end plug, sanded down a bit to better fit the smaller ID of the MTB handlebar. It is even possible if you're a bit crafty to avoid any sort of cap; just cross-drill the 'bar section and insert a rod with a hole drilled in it to draw up the clamp (helping the clamp pretend it is holding a brake lever). That's what I did, using an old Weinmann/Dia-Compe brake housing clamp bolt cross-stop.
The folks at Aaron's Bikes in Seattle posted a link well after I made my computer mounts: http://www.rideyourbike.com/shiftermount.shtml
Though my DIY efforts predated Aaron's Bikes' by more than two decades, the idea itself is not new at all. It is the same method used by weinmann and Dia-compre to produce tandem "dummy" grips for stoker's handlebars back in the late 1970s-early '80s, and at one time in the late-'90s, Dia-Compe produced a variation (sold through Canada's Norco) that was intended to make a supporting stub for a 'bar bag's detachable steel frame (as was de rigeur at the time) to the crosspiece on early MTB "bullmoose" handlebars -- the kind that looked a bit like a "Y" when you looked down on them.
I'd suggest giving this a try before going the QBP/ProblemSolvers route, as you'll get where you need to go much more quickly and can tailor it to your own needs almost instantly. With a Rohloff shifter mounted on it, the result will look OEM-clean.
All the best,
Dan. (...who is beginning to think there might be some advantages to being an "old" Roadie; what's old is new again)
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John, I forgot to add...
Though the Cresswell ratchet should fit the handlebars directly, the mount I've described and pictured above would offset it from the 'bars enough to allow easy shifting on drops. I did not go this route on my own Nomad 'cos I used Rohloff's own rotary shifter, and decided it was an easier reach to the top-mounted T-bar. If I went the Cresswell/Ovo Tandem route, I would mount the ratchet shifter on one of these stubs, lagged directly off the inside curve of the handlebars.
Looking at the YouTube video of the ratchet shifter I linked to above, it appear one needs to have clearance to approach from below and above if it is mounted to the inside of a handlebar. I don't think co-locating it (or nearly so) with the brake lever would do, but back toward the curve a bit should do just fine for shifting ease.
Oh! One last thing*...though my quill stem is 22.2mm, the same stub could be made to fit a road-diameter handlebar by simply making the curved mounting face with a little larger radius. I used a road-diameter brake clamp, so it would work in any application. The stub I made in the photo above used a section of road-bike drop-'bar; the one on another bike uses the 22.2mm MTB 'bar I had on hand at the time.
Best,
Dan.
*EDIT: Nope, not the last; :) an addendum is needed to answer questions PM'd or emailed about the composite photo I attached to the last post. I'll answer here to save time:
• Yes, I engraved the stem myself. Painted it, too, with a baked enamel finish.
• The tall headset nut is a Sugino High Column Nut, designed to further brace a tall quill stem against heavy loads like a handlebar bag or reefing on the 'bars when "honking" out of the saddle. it is sealed with an o-ring to help prevent sweat from corroding the stem/nut interface. No, it won't work on a threadless stem, nor is it needed there 'cos a 1-1/8" threadless steel steerer and clamp-on stem are much stiffer than a small-diameter aluminum quill stem in a 1" threaded steerer.
• The unusual looking headset is a Stronglight Delta roller-bearing model; essentially an A-9 in a prettier, better finished anodized external cup set and with neoprene weather seals added. The roller races are interchangeable, I did buy a half-dozen extra bearing/race sets, and no I don't have any extras to sell on. No, this headset won't work on a threadless steerer.
• The cable stop you see is reversed so it makes a parking brake, locking the front wheel for convenience and security while at rest. A subsidiary Dia-Compe #9871 quick-release mounted on cantis' straddle cable handles primary release duties. Yes, the same setup would work on a Club Tour or any Thorn equipped with cantilever brakes and a cable stop so long as you the q/r stop can be reversed in function. Yes, there have been q/r cable stops made for threadless stems, but I don't know where they are currently available.
• No, the PlanetBike Protege 9.0 computer has no external buttons; the case is the button. Yes, it is waterproof. No, it is not perfect; the average speed is figured on a 10-hour time base, after which it shows an Error code which irritates me mightily, but I like the rest of it.
• The handlebar covers are Morgan Grips by Morgan Concepts, late of Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. They are ergonomically shaped and very comfortable on long rides on rough roads. They weigh a heavy 10.5oz/300g all by themselves and are a bear to install; even worse to reinstall as they must be glued and stitched on. They ceased production in the mid-'80s. The patent is here: http://www.google.com/patents/US4522083 There are no more left to buy. Anywhere. I tried. Really!
• Yes, the tape under the clamps prevents scratches and the possibility of galvanic corrosion between dissimilar metals. Yes, I could have done it more neatly.
• The mysterious bracket in the upper-left is for a SkyMounti inclinometer. The one atop the stem is for a Garmin Oregon 400T GPS. The blue thing at the top of the left-hand photo is an LED flashlight in a TwoFish bracket. I use it to remain visible at stops, since this bike does not have a standlight with its dyno lighting.
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Thanks, Dan -- that's very helpful, as always. I'll think some more about this. I like the setup which places the acc bar parallel to the HB -- allows the possibility of mounting either the Cresswell or standard Rohloff shifter in the Rando curve. Happily, there's no rush on any of this -- expect to sell the Ajay on in mid-June, freeing up both space and the ready for the Raven Tour later in the year.
Cheers,
J.
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That is why my Phone Number is 0 - - K A Y A K S :)
St Peter, you have my number!
Andre Jute
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxROkCIreMQ&feature=youtu.be
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;DMy thoughts. VERY interesting! At present I have two Rohloffs - one on a Catylst ATB with the old triangular shifter - works 100% beautifully on straight bars. The other is on my RST drop-bar tourer, with the new round grip on an accesory stub bar on the stem - it is slightly awkward to use (taking hand off bars) and I prefer the positive shape of the old triangular, although the gear indicator is clearer on the 'round'.
Being used to Sti levers on my other drop-bar bikes, I am very interested. A few points:-
1. No visible gear indicator - not a REAL problem, I know.
2. More to go wrong - the Rohloff twistgrip is simple and functional.
3. I cannot see it being as 'naturally functional' as an Sti.
4. Is it on sale yet?
5. Perhaps the flashy silver Berthoud is more what I want - seems tried and tested? ???
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Hi Eric!
You've given a nice summary. The choices can be hard, especially for drop-'bar riders. In addition to the Berthoud and now the new Cresswell ratchet shifter, there is also the Co-Motion alternative.
I closely considered getting the Berthoud on my Nomad, but realized the unit is less well sealed against weather than Rohloff's original and Andy Blance noted it might not be as suitable for the sort of touring I do. I have had reports from Dutch friends, manufacturers, and bike mechanics reflecting similar concerns, but I have yet to read any direct user reports here among owners on the Forum of practical problems that have cropped up as a result. Those people on the Forum who have bought the Berthouds and PM'd me seem pleased with theirs in actual use.
I stayed with the original (later, round, marked number) Rohloff OEM shifter (on a T-bar above my drop handlebars) partly for ready parts availability and partly because is *is* so simple, but also to avoid a bare aluminum control knob, which would become extremely hot or cold to the touch in the places where I would use it (aluminum is a very efficient temperature conductor). The Rohloff's rubber cover also works nicely in wet or snow conditions and is easy to grip with or without gloves.
Always nice to have alternatives, but oh! making a choice can be hard.
Best,
Dan.