Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: Desertrider on October 19, 2005, 03:26:10 PM
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Hello everyone; I'm hoping I can benefit from the experience of the people on this forum. Sorry in advance for the longish post.
I've been shopping for a new bicycle frame for some time, and have developed a strong attraction to the Thorn models (besides, the name seems suitable for an Arizona bicycle). They appear to enjoy a very loyal following.
I live five miles down a dirt road in the Sonoran Desert,next to about a million acres of public land, so virtually all my riding is off-tarmac. Mostly I ride lightly loaded for exercise, but occasionally (2 or 3 times a year) I plan to undertake loaded tours with panniers--including treks to other parts of the world. The trails I ride are mostly dirt 4x4 routes, with some technical sections. Above all I need a bike that is strong and reliable, but I don't want to go overboard and wind up with something that feels like a tank when unloaded. So far the Nomad or EXP seem to be the likely candidates. I lean toward the Nomad for what I assume would be handier unloaded maneuverability, but I'd like to hear from riders of both. Also, for personal reasons I'd really prefer a frame made in the UK, not offshore, and I don't see a reference on the Thorn brochure that specifically states where the Nomad frame is built.
I'm 5 foot 9, 150 pounds, and a fit 50 years old.
Any input or advice will be greatly appreciated, and repaid with hospitality should you decide to come see the Arizona deserts.
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As a 5'9" 160 pound fit 60 year old who used to live in Tucson, I have one word of advice: Rohloff. I know you asked about frames, but if you go to the trouble of getting a Thorn--one of the few bikes available in standard form fully ready for a Rohloff hub--I'd suggest giving serious thought to internal gears.
A year ago I got a new bike. I couldn't figure out how to get a Thorn in Oregon without going through all sorts of hoops, but I did get a custom (steel) frame with Rohoff dropouts and hub and I'll never own a derailleur again. And I ride mostly in a (very hilly) city; when I go out into the woods and desert the Rohloff is even more outstanding.
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Sounds like a job for an eXXp to me:
http://www.sjscycles.com/thornwebsite/exxp.html
or a Rohloff eXp if you don't want the suspension. They are, like most of their more expensive bikes, hand built by Thorn in Somerset. Their other frames are made in Taiwan. I just saw them in the metal at the Cycle Show in London, and they are gorgeous.
The Rohloff hub really is the ultimate in reliability.
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Hi, I believe that all the fillet brazed frames, including the Nomad and XTC are built in the UK. Some are built inhouse, such as the EXP.
All the tig welded frames are made in Taiwan,including the Sherpa and Club Tour.
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Thanks for the input. Glad to know all the filet-brazed frames are built in England. (I'm simply tired of the flood of Oriental products taking over the world.)
Eblair, I didn't realize there might be a problem importing a Thorn frame on my own! I thought they could just ship it, and I'd pay any duty. Not like it's an assault rifle or something unsociable. (Incidentally, did you start growing mushrooms out your ears when you moved from Arizona to Oregon?:-)
I'm sold on the Rohloff hub, but as a penurious freelance writer not sure about the funding . . .
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i am 44yo, 1.91m and 105kg [6'4", 230lbs]
i have used my Nomad for about 18months ... it really is a very versatile bike ... there really isn't much i haven't done with it ... i use it for long day rides, commuting, shopping [with big rear panniers], riding singletrack with workmates complete with fenders and dual racks, and of course i have used it for touring too ... it handles it all without fuss ...
my Nomad webpage... http://www.hoogie.co.nz/bikes/nomad.htm
i would agree with the other comment on here, if you can afford it, go for a rolhoff hubbed model ... but if you don't, then the Nomad is a very good choice ...
i think sheldon brown at http://www.harriscyclery.com is still an agent for Thorn bikes in the usa ... drop robin or sheldon an email, they are very friendly and given impartial advice ...
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/thorn/index.html
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Hoogie, thanks, that's excellent information. I'm looking forward to going through your website at length.
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Please feel free to contact me from my website if you wanted more information on my Nomad ... i have put down a few ride impressions on the website as well ...
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Desert Rider,
I don't want to scare you off. There were no legal hurles, merely procedural complications. I didn't want a frame--which I think Harris can handle--but an entire bike. The cost of shipping an entire bike bike halfway around the world and paying duty on the whole price (including hub) ended up too high for comfort--especially for a bike I couldn't try for fit. It actually worked out about the same cost to have a custom bike made in this country.
My ancestors must have fixed the Scottish climate in my genes: Oregon's grey skies and cold drizzle suit me to the bone. I found the Sonoran desert beautiful but the heat utterly unendurable. De Gustibus and all that.
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Eblair, yes: As Arizona natives my wife and I start layering when the temperature drops below 75 degrees F!
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Of course, if you were ambitious, you can now get a round trip flight between Phonix and London for about $500. Depending on how much you're spending, it could be worth the trip! (Of course, you might get stuck with VAT this way, but at least you'd get a nice trip to London & Bridgewater out of it!)
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What about tax free shopping? How does that work?
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I actually thought about picking one up at the source. My wife and I have friends in Hastings whom we visit now and then. I believe you get a VAT refund if taking the product out of the country.
But the Harris Cyclery option here in the U.S. is viable as well.
One possible problem: Someone tells me the Nomad frame is made overseas? Urk. . .If I'm going to spend the money on a British touring frame, I want it made in England, dammit! Can anyone confirm which Thorn frames are made there?
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quote:
Originally posted by Desertrider
I actually thought about picking one up at the source. My wife and I have friends in Hastings whom we visit now and then. I believe you get a VAT refund if taking the product out of the country.
But the Harris Cyclery option here in the U.S. is viable as well.
One possible problem: Someone tells me the Nomad frame is made overseas? Urk. . .If I'm going to spend the money on a British touring frame, I want it made in England, dammit! Can anyone confirm which Thorn frames are made there?
if you purchase a frame from Thorn direct, they take the VAT off the sticker price (advertised price-20%=roughly what you pay ... but the you have to do the currency conversion thing) ...
i think the Nomads are stil made in the UK ...
best thing to do is to email Robin Thorn himself, he is a no pressure type guy and will happily answer any questions you might have ...
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Hmm..it seems I misinformed you as they are no longer being built by LA Cycles of Coventry http://www.leecoopercycles.com/.
Thorn may have frames in stock made by them. As Hoogie says you could ask Robin, or you could buy from Lee Cooper, as he must have had plenty of practice!
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Hi Desertrider,
If you email Robin (Mr. Thorn)... robin@sjscycles.com we are more than happy to call you back. Robin will be able to advise the correct model and full info on USA delivery.
Best regards
Andrew
quote:
Originally posted by Desertrider
Hello everyone; I'm hoping I can benefit from the experience of the people on this forum. Sorry in advance for the longish post.
I've been shopping for a new bicycle frame for some time, and have developed a strong attraction to the Thorn models (besides, the name seems suitable for an Arizona bicycle). They appear to enjoy a very loyal following.
I live five miles down a dirt road in the Sonoran Desert,next to about a million acres of public land, so virtually all my riding is off-tarmac. Mostly I ride lightly loaded for exercise, but occasionally (2 or 3 times a year) I plan to undertake loaded tours with panniers--including treks to other parts of the world. The trails I ride are mostly dirt 4x4 routes, with some technical sections. Above all I need a bike that is strong and reliable, but I don't want to go overboard and wind up with something that feels like a tank when unloaded. So far the Nomad or EXP seem to be the likely candidates. I lean toward the Nomad for what I assume would be handier unloaded maneuverability, but I'd like to hear from riders of both. Also, for personal reasons I'd really prefer a frame made in the UK, not offshore, and I don't see a reference on the Thorn brochure that specifically states where the Nomad frame is built.
I'm 5 foot 9, 150 pounds, and a fit 50 years old.
Any input or advice will be greatly appreciated, and repaid with hospitality should you decide to come see the Arizona deserts.
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I did just email Robin, and he proved to be as responsive as everyone has reported (one of the reasons I gravitated to his bicycles in the first place).
He reports that the EXP, Nomad, XTC, and all the Rohloff models except Tour, Sport Tour, Catalyst, and Enduro are made in the UK.
So I believe I am homing in on the Nomad as the perfect choice for me if I am to order a frame to build up myself. The Rohloff calls, though . . .
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Listen the call of the Rohloff. I've had mine for a few months now and the pain of the initial cash outlay is a distant memory. If you can afford it, go with the Rohloff.
David
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Urk! I know I wouldn't regret the Rohloff. It's only the initial scream of pain from my bank account that scares me.
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You won't regret the Nomad either. I built up a bare Nomad frame a few years ago when the Rohloff wasn't an option. It would a great bike for the type of riding you describe. In fact I chose the Nomad with the back roads of the desert Southwest in mind, having toured out there in the past. Haven't had the chance to put it to the test, but I know the Nomad will be up to the challenge.
We did the Deerfield Dirt-Road Randonnée (http://www.deerfieldcycling.org/index.htm) last August, 107 miles, 70% on dirt roads, with 11,300 vertical feet of climbing. I may not have been the fastest rider that day, but at 55 years old I'm much more interested in comfort than speed. A properly set up Nomad is the kind of bike you can ride all day, over any terrain, and not feel like someone has worked you over with a 2 by 4. I love mine.
Cephas
Manchester, New Hampshire, USA
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Good to know, Cephas. Thanks.
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Don't be intimidated by the shipping costs. I ordered a Raven Tour directly from SJSC this spring and the shipping was around 10% of the total cost - not so much different than the PA sales tax I pay on bikes I get at my local shop. There were no other fees. The bike was delivered three days after it was shipped in two boxes by a USPS truck.
Like others, I can't say enough good stuff about the Rohloff and the cost is well worth it if you ride alot. I have two reservations though. One is the guilt I feel when I see my wife struggling with her derailleur and the other is figuring how I'm going to meet the 'authorized' annual service requirement. I wonder what it takes to be 'authorized'.
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Good point . . .shipping that thing back to Germany could get expensive!
Can anyone offer any comments on Thorn's racks versus Tubus or other brands? I want good racks.
Thanks again.
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quote:
Originally posted by eriecommuter
how I'm going to meet the 'authorized' annual service requirement.
What's this?
I can't find any mention of it in the Rohloff manual
http://www.rohloffusa.com/pdf/workshop.pdf
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It's not in the manual. It's on the orange warranty card. I don't know how strict Rohloff is on this but I don't plan on sending it back to Germany or anywhere else too far from home. If worse comes to worse I'll take the chance that their service recommendations will keep the hub running and I'll do the work myself. That would just add to the fun.
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quote:
Originally posted by eriecommuter
It's not in the manual. It's on the orange warranty card.
Yep found it, not sure if thanks are in order, ignorence was bliss[;)]
Thorn certainly keep that quite, there’s no mention of it in the Living with a Rohloff article and from the Thorn Rohloff Interview;
“AE What about maintenance, what is involved?
AB The oil needs changing every 5000Km. The internal cables should be replaced every 20,000Km and obviously you need to look after your chain and keep it reasonably tight... that’s it!”
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quote:
and the other is figuring how I'm going to meet the 'authorized' annual service requirement. I wonder what it takes to be 'authorized'.
I couldn't find a Rohloff agent within cycling distance of me. And I wasn't going to be posting the wheel off to get an oil change. So I e.mailed Rohloff and asked if I could do it myself. The answer was yes. So I bought the complete oil change kit mail order and did it, not a difficult job.
Anyway, if these things do really last for 100,000 km, and they've never had a total failure, you won't need to be claiming on your warranty unless you're very unlucky.
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Well, Robin Thorn called me from the UK this morning, and we had a nice chat about sizing, shipping, and paint. What service!
I'm waiting on a couple of checks from tardy editors, then I'll be ordering my Thorn Nomad frame. As we say in Arizona: Yahoo!
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Never tried a tubus rack but the Thorn ones are good. A nice touch with the rear ones is that the mudguard stays mount to the rack, making it very rigid. The powder coat does rub off with heavy panniers but a quick touch up with black paint does the job for another few months. A Chrome finish would still rub off in time but can't be touched up in your shed and galvanised items can be brittle.
I've got some MK3 heavy duty lo loaders and they're good too. I'd have like the new mid loaders but at the time I was running a sidewall dynamo and they looked like they'd foul it. Couldn't afford a SON, lo loaders, small panniers and a holiday to use them in the same month!
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quote:
Originally posted by TonySmith
Never tried a tubus rack but the Thorn ones are good.
I've never tried a Thorn rack, I like my Tubus ones. In terms of sttength I doubt there's much in it, they're made of similar materials. In terms of design, the Tubus win by a mile[;)]
The Thorn ones look so industrial, all square edges and Meccano fixings, IMO you can spoil the look of a Thorn bike with a Thorn rack.
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Vanity, thy name is Tubus!
When I bought my Raven Tour, I got a Tubus rack with it - primarily for aesthetic reasons. They do look pretty damned cool! I really wanted all the trimmings to be a silvery finish, which ruled out the Thorn racks. I almost went for a Blackburn rack (which would have matched the rest of my bits better), but Blackburn was a little too pedestrian for me.
And I've really liked my Tubus rack for the most part, that is, until I bought an Altura rack-top bag. I was convinced that the design of the bag was flawed, since it's meant to be secured to the rack with two straps underneath and a couple velcro flaps on the front end. But because of the narrow top of the Tubus rack and lack of a "stop" at the front of the rack for the velcro to attach to, the bag cannot be secured properly without the ingenious use of bungee cords, which I have now mastered.
Only today, when I strapped the bag to the £15 Pletscher rack on my utility bike did I realise how it's supposed to work! With a nice wide rack surface and a flip-up bar at the front end, the bag is securely fastened.
It's too late to turn back now, and I do love the look of the rack (I also really like the lower bars for mounting panniers), so I'll have to make do with my bungee arrangement for the bag... Next time, though, I'll go with Thorn!
Andrew
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Thanks for that input! It's good to know about the top of the rack. I do like to use a rack trunk for day rides; I have an insulated one that's nice for cold drinks on warm Arizona days.
Robin Thorn pointed out that he uses closed tubes for his racks (implying, I guess, that Tubus does not?). He also said that he has never had a rear rack fail, but has seen Tubus racks fail. Robin doesn't seem like the type who needs to falsely put down other products. But I'll bet it took some doing to break a Tubus rack.
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I decided on Thorn's new Expedition Rack on the Raven Sport Tour I have just ordered. Despite it being stronger (and therefore heavier) than I need it had a number of features I like:
It has a rear plate with holes drilled for mounting rear lights and reflectors.
It projects back a bit further so I should be able to adjust my panniers so that they clear my heels easily.
It has the mudguard stay mounts which looks neater and holds the mudguard stiffer so that it won't rub the tyres.
I think it looks good. It has a clean, practical appearance. (They don't have a picture in the parts web store but it is fitted to the Rohloff eXp in this picture: http://www.sjscycles.com/thornwebsite/Images/bikeenlargerohloffexp.jpg)
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quote:
Originally posted by jgrgilbert
I think it looks good. It has a clean, practical appearance. (They don't have a picture in the parts web store but it is fitted to the Rohloff eXp in this picture: http://www.sjscycles.com/thornwebsite/Images/bikeenlargerohloffexp.jpg)
OK, I admit to being vain, but IMO that looks awful[}:)]
It looks like someone has bodged it together in their garage, they couldn't even find a bit of Maccano the right colour to attach it to the seat stays.
Now if Thorn started powder coating them to match the frames, I'd be first in the queue.
I take the point about fitting a rack pack, I prefer a saddlebag for day rides anyway. The lower pannier rails on a Tubus are great when you've got a tent bungeed to the top plate, you can get it on and off without disturbing anything else.
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The meccano bits are stainless, left natural because they need to be cut to length, having colour coordinated racks would be impractical unless ALL of our bikes were supplied with one @ the outset.