Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Non-Thorn Related => Topic started by: Andybg on October 08, 2012, 01:16:12 PM
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In about a months time I am picking up a new bike to use/replace/enhance my Nomad while it is getting rebuilt. For the first time I will be doing long distances on a straight barred bike so it has been making me think about how I will find it and looking at my own riding style over the last week.
I am eager to like straight bars but I was amazed to discover that there are 13 distinct positions I use on drop bars both for comfort and in specific situations. I am sure this is quite normal but it is amazing what you notice when you are paying attention. I am just trying to find out a way to find out what hand positions I use subconciously. It is very difficult to pay attention and act normaly at the same time. (Some people even say I never act normaly)
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couldn't go with straight andy ,ok if your only going to the shops but long distance no man couldn't do it.
i'm most of the time on the hoods on the flats (TOP) when climbing, and on the drops when the devil is in me ;)
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That is my gut feeling Jags but I have decided for an experiment Iwill give it a go. On my RST (although I never did anything over 70km) I found it ok with the straight bars and ergon Gp 5 L shaped bar ends so Lets see how it goes.
If it is really untenable for long term use then atleast I will know that for the future
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nothing beats a try Andy,
my friend rides a raven tour super bike, he loves his straight bars and comfort grips.
just finished a two week jaunt in france and had no complaints ;) .
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Hi Andy!
Best of luck on trying the straight handlebars...you won't know till you try, and they may prove ideal for that particular bike and your riding style on it. If nothing else, it's education, and that always has value.
Last year when I still owned Sherpa, I worked up a photo collage to send to a friend who had never ridden drop 'bars but was considering them on his new bicycle. The simple task of taking the photos proved a bit daunting when I needed one hand to pose and the other to take pictures, so some positions look a bit more strained than they do in real life. Still, the attached collage shows my 7 favorite hand positions when using drop handlebars.
I have the interrupter ('cross-top) levers in place on Sherpa here (soon to be on the Nomad), and they gave me secure braking in positions 1 and 2, also used when descending really steep goat tracks and I want to get my weight as far back on the saddle as possible to prevent an endo. When tired or wanting a stretch, I use position 3. My most-used and favorite position is 4, atop the brake hoods. Positions 5-7 are for go-fast efforts or going into headwinds.
It is very difficult to pay attention and act normaly at the same time. (Some people even say I never act normaly)
<nods> Andy most people pay attention to me 'cos I'm not acting...ehm, normally. I'm bike-crazy in a car-culture. Its a matter of anthropology, not mental health.
All the best,
Dan. (Who thinks there's a dissertation in there somewhere...)
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Mmm. Doesn't Thorn push a medium-swept relative of the straight, flat bar, designed by Andy the Designer's wife Fiona, who's a physiologist? Has anyone got one? What's it like on long rides? Designer and wife, IIRC, swear high and low by those bars, and their journeys add up substantially. -- Andre Jute
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Yeah Andre
They call them the comfort bars. It is certainly worth another test. The only issue I can see with them is that they only give 1 position which no matter how comfy, I would imagine would leed to discomfort if not terminal boredom on a long run.
The straight's with ergon gp5 bar ends gives 3 good positions.
Maybe I'll try both and try to givea fair review of the 3 main options. Soon the weather will be changing here and I am looking forward to having the straight bars for the snow and the ice. The question is whether by the time spring comes, I will be a straight bar convert or looking forward to getting back on the drops.
Watch this space
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Yeah Andre
They call them the comfort bars. It is certainly worth another test. The only issue I can see with them is that they only give 1 position which no matter how comfy, I would imagine would leed to discomfort if not terminal boredom on a long run.
The straight's with ergon gp5 bar ends gives 3 good positions.
Maybe I'll try both and try to givea fair review of the 3 main options. Soon the weather will be changing here and I am looking forward to having the straight bars for the snow and the ice. The question is whether by the time spring comes, I will be a straight bar convert or looking forward to getting back on the drops.
Watch this space
Could you have comfort bars with ergon gp5's?
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Yes - there is another post:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4747.0
That discusses thisexact set up.
Cheers
Andy
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I have owned three drop bar bikes for a few years (including my Club Tour) and added a Moulton TSR30 to the stable about 3 years ago. This particular model was availale in drop bar and flat bar versions for the same price and I chose flat bars as I thought (and still do, in theory) that flat bars have some advantages over drops.. e.g. a more upright position, easier reach to the brake levers and thumb shifters/ rapid fires/whatever.
I really wanted to enjoy my flat bars but could never get really comfortable for any length of time. I tried different stem lengths, bar ends and even butterfly bars (modolo from SJS) They were great for about 2 hours but after that the inability to change position began to tell. It's not until you spend a day on flat bars that you appreciate how much you can change your position on drop bars. It's not just the angle of the wrist. Your lower back and shoulders benefit from being to sit up on the tops, lean forward on the hoods and get down on the drops.
I eventually spent an eye watering amount of money on retro fitting the drop bars. The greatest expense was the Campag. Centaur Ergo brake levers/shifters.
I sold the flat bars and their levers to another Moulton owner who swears by them.
But, as I have commented in an earlier post, we're all individuals and what works for one might be abject misery for another...
Cheers,
pj
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I have comfort bars with ergon gp1s which are the basic grip without any bar ends.
For me fantastic - no need to change position
• the grips have a flattish section which supports and which is sorely missed if I go back to 'normal' straight bar grips.
• the bars have a rearward sweep and width which suits my ageing back and shoulders nicely, I used to like narrower and straighter bars when younger.
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These look quiet interesting. They break into 3 parts so they can take the rohloff changer:
http://www.rivingtonbikes.co.uk/handlebars-stems/8652-humpert-hornbar-vario-flat-bar.html
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You can see how they break down here:
http://www.humpert.com/en_media/bikeparts/downloads/montage_sicherheit/visuals/Handlebars_ergotecHORNBARVARIO_E.pdf
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I like these a lot and have seriously thought of including them on my spec for my new Nomad
However.....
I never ride without a morror. How / where would I fit one?
Give me a solution and I will be buying one
Thanx folks
Matt
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Here is a ctc post with a pic of the handlebars with mirror:
http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4014
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Nice picture. Looks like the mirror clamps on?
Over the 'foam'?
Guess this must work but would like to see up close.
Ok - I'm sold.
Santa can bring me one for Xmas!
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I'm running comfort bars with gp5s. And a mirror too. Every time I ride a boris bike I keep trying to go for the different positions.
Defo my fave set up so far.
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I have tried those Humpert bars, they are different to the comfort bars and didn't suit me because,
• there is no rise
• the grip position is narrower
• the provided grips are foam, ergon gp1s are exceedingly difficult to fit and need some butchering.
If that suits you then you can get 3 different shape ends for the bars.
The ends have a 'quill stem' type fastening with an expanding plug inside the handlebar, it ends up quite heavy.
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I have two drop bar audax bikes and an RST with comfort bars. My go to bike is the RST as it is so comfortable. I used to have straight bars with bar ends which were ok but for me the comfort bars are superb. Ergon grips without bar ends. I use three or four different positions including the middle of the bar when I want to get more stretched out. I was skeptical at first but now would not go back. My wife' s RST has comfort a bars and loves them and my mate's Woodrup also has them.
I think you've got to try them just in case they could be perfect for you!!!
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I received a set of Humpert "Tour" bars on my bike as a default fitting for testing and handling, since I didn't spec a handlebar -- I have several sets of Uno-Kalloy North Road bars of the type I like, and my n'lock bars with the locking cable inside are made for Brain People Switzerland by Kalloy. This Humpert Tour bar is like a flat bar, but swept back a bit at the grips, much like the Thorn bar Mrs Blance developed, and I found even that bit of sweep made it much more natural to hold, not as good as North Road Bars, which have the ideal angle and rise, but much better than flat bars. I took the Tour bar off and gave it away because it had no rise and the adjustable stem I used then was already at the limit of its upward extension.
Also, my bike is sized on the predicate that I would preserve the upright seating suited to its 68 degree geometry, and preferred by me, by using well-swept bars with a good rise. But many people who like a semi-sporting or even a sporting position on the same frame are extremely enthusiastic about those Tour bars.
This Tour bar has a near Humpert relative called the Moon Bar which has a double flat hoop, the second one shorter so that the grips are single. The idea is that you can attach gear to the second hoop, but it may possibly offer another set of handholds..
A final note: I set my personal ton-up record (truck assisted, so don't get envious) on a Dutch stadssportief (aka comfort bike!) without even taking off the North Road handlebars. But I was riding with a horizontal back, very aerodynamic. How did I do it? My stem was a Gazelle Switch, which is a toollessly adjustable stem offering the usual up-down and curve-around positions but, and this is crucial, also loosens it's grip on the handlebars, so that you can then rotate the bars. (The Kalloy Zoom is a cheap copy, I think.) You do it all by just flipping a single lever; no tools required. For the record attempt I curved the stem downwards, and rotated the bars so the grips were only about 15 degrees, maybe less, off dead vertical, something like the bit of drops where the bottom grips already started their upward turn. This brought my trunk forward and down, as on an extreme road bike. One of the helpers was surprised I hadn't turned over my North Road bars to make pseudo-mustache bars, which with the Gazelle Switch stem would offer an infinity of sporting positions on the bike, even more convincing than my already pretty successful right-way-up North Road/Gazelle Switch combo.
Andre Jute
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One other thing I have found while trooling for handlebar solutions is one of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Acor-Handlebar-Extension-for-computers-lights-Garmin-ALLOY-/221123964095?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item337c03ecbf
Looking at it it would be a good solution to be able to fit the rohloff changer to any handlebar and would allow you to play with the position of the shifter either above / below or infront or behind the bar or an inbetween permeation.
I dont particularly like the Rohloff solution on some straight setups do to the following reasons:
One of the grips generally nees cutting down to fit and I find the hand position on that side not so comfortble.
To fit the changer in the brake levers have to be moved inboard so that the reach to the brake levers is not a natural one.
I know these are small issues but I think worth trying to look at a better solution to
Cheers
Andy
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I know these are small issues but I think worth trying to look at a better solution to...
I salute your efforts, Andy; nearly all parts of the rider-bicycle interface can be improved for individual rider comfort or preference.
The thread on "Drop 'bars & Rohloff" ( http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4049.0 ) is applicable to non-drops as well.
I always figured if I tired of 'drops and went to, say, a Nitto Arc 'bar, I'd simply leave the Rohloff shifter where I have it -- mounted to a T-bar. Choosing an alternative mount allows for a quick changeover between 'bars, great for experimentation,
Looking forward to your solutions, Andy!
All the best,
Dan.
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I dream of the day when somebody makes a handlebar that from the front of the bike will look something like a W with two shortish central arms and two really long outer arms set at a North Road grip sweep angle.
I had a pair of North Road bars, made by Uno-Kalloy, with straight grip sections fully 8in long, on which I used full length Brooks grips with a Rohloff control, and Magura four finger hydraulic rim brake handles, applied with only two fingers. This was a comfortable solution. The n'lock handlebars with the cable inside that I use now, also made by Uno-Kalloy, are perhaps more elegantly curved but the grip area is shorter and the Brooks grip on that side had to be reduced in length. It works but it is not as comfortable as with the long handle, and the lack of symmetry is a constant aesthetic irritation.
Andre Jute
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Andre,
Is it possible to transfer the n'lock cable from the current handlebars to your older Kalloy Unos? Unless there is something inside like a star-fangled nut (easy enough to remove), I would think the cable might be move from one 'bar to the other.
Hopefully,
Dan. (...who fervently believes there's little that can't be taken apart. Getting it back together again...well, there's the challenge!)
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Truth is, Dan, I haven't even looked. I just assumed that the cable was fixed on its sliding bit, and its stopper fixed in the tube, by welding. It would be silly to make a security cable that could be easily dismantle from its holder... -- Andre Jute
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Andre,
Given the n'lock's quality, I don't think they would weld a plug in the 'bar (welding would require milling to overcome heat distortion and welding heat could anneal the cold-worked temper of the alu 'bar; see: http://www.alumeco.com/Technical_information/Temper_description.aspx ), but it is possible. I suspect a star-fangled nut, which is extremely secure under all normal circumstances, especially if pulled by forces opposite the "star". In the event they did use an SFN, it would be effectively permanent unless one took special measures for removal, which no thief would be equipped to do in normal circumstances...
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3800.0
Might be worth a peek inside the end someday or firing off a letter of inquiry to n'lock, if you could get the best of all worlds as a result.
Best,
Dan. (...who frequently finds himself looking for challenges and realizes there's no shortage)
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That's an idea, Dan. I'll look into it in the new year, when I'll have time. Meanwhile, I went to check the bars, and you're right, they're alloy. I also have essentially similar bars in steel, but about 20mm wider, and with longer grip area, and also in alloy in two very slightly different styles. (I had an agreement with a bike shop in the city to hold North Road takeoffs for me until I had one for each of my bikes and a spare.) — Andre Jute