Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Non-Thorn Related => Topic started by: Danneaux on May 15, 2012, 03:42:21 PM
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Hi All!
(If you're looking to buy something Brooksian at a discount, this is your lucky day. Actually, you'll be in luck till 2 June, thanks to a survey-completion incentive. I decided not to give the direct link, as the survey is short and Brooks will use it to improve their offerings, so it seems fair to jump that small hoop.)
Today's email brought a new edition of the Brooks Despatch, with the following links of interest:
- Take a survey, get a 40% discount in Brooks' online store:
http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/WEB22FN8FV3DSJ
- Direct link to Brooks' _Bugle_ (blog) Issue 4:
http://blog.brooksengland.com/wps/bugle/
- Brooks at Tweed Run 2012:
http://blog.brooksengland.com/wps/brooks-at-the-london-springtime-tweed-run/
- Brooks Cinema (videos including PBP 2011, EuroBike 2011, touring and race videos):
http://blog.brooksengland.com/wps/videos/
- Update on the World Cycle Race:
http://blog.brooksengland.com/wps/wcr-grand-tour-update-the-ninth/
- Link to their PedaLed online shop:
http://www.pedaled.com/shop
- And last of all, in the want.need must.have. waaaaaaaant category...
...the B.17 World Traveler Edition, at € 250.00:
http://www.brooksengland.com/catalogue-and-shop/basket/
Photos here:
http://www.brooksengland.com/en/ResampleImg.ashx?imgurl=../images/shop/shop_editions/Limited_Editions/World-Traveller-2102a.jpg&Width=600&Height=500&format=jpeg&bkColor=FFFFFF
...here...
http://www.brooksengland.com/en/ResampleImg.ashx?imgurl=~/images/shop/shop_editions/Limited_Editions/B17_Select_World_Traveller_2012/Pictures/World-Traveller-2102b.jpg&Height=500&format=jpeg&bkColor=FFFFFF
...and here...
http://www.brooksengland.com/en/ResampleImg.ashx?imgurl=~/images/shop/shop_editions/Limited_Editions/B17_Select_World_Traveller_2012/Pictures/World-Traveller-2102c.jpg&Height=500&format=jpeg&bkColor=FFFFFF
Actually the last thing I'd want on a genuine world tourer, as it is a magnet for thieves. Perfect for mounting on a wall, however. Wish I could afford one even at 40% discount (nets out at £120/€150/USD$192 after survey discount, with free delivery to many countries)
This, along with the new edition of Bicycle Traveler ( http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4235.msg19475;topicseen#msg19475 ) should pretty well kill productivity for today. :D
Best,
Dan.
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For that price it doesn't even have titanium rails? :P (just kidding!)
The other half went touring on a Brooks, apparently it helps if your backside has a "Brooks fit" but if not they run in to your shape but that takes some miles.
Brooks and Sturmey Archer have become trendy in the UK after years of absence or mostly sales in other countries (my parents always had Brooks)
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Thanks for posting this Dan, I am now awaiting delivery of a Titanium railed Swift with Honey coloured leather, with 40% discount, great stuff ;D
Oh, and Mrs Relayer said "What on earth do you need another saddle for?!?!?" ;)
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...now awaiting delivery of a Titanium railed Swift...with 40% discount...
Yay! So glad it worked out for you, Jim; that's terrific! ...Mrs Relayer said "What on earth do you need another saddle for?!?!?"
Um, "'Cos Dan said it was a really great deal that won't last, and if I don't act now, I'll never again get one this cheap and it's 40% off and it's beautiful *and* titanium *and* honey-colored *and* a Brooks"?
Yeh, that'll do it. ;)
Pictures! A little gallery entry with it on your bike would be wonderful!
All the best (and glad it's coming),
Dan. (Certified Bad Influence)
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Bugger
Looks like I missed it!!
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Bugger Looks like I missed it!!
Graham, I know that awful-sick feeling of having just discovered the "greatest" offer...right after it's over. Usually happens to me with consumer electronics and especially computers and peripherals. Did just snag another reasonably fast 3TB hard drive for a bit more than 50% off, though, and a 32GB Class10 SDHC card for 60% reduction. Now watch me miss the next dozen or so similar offers.
<nods> Yes, sadly, this one was valid only until 2 June 2012.
I often get advance notice of reductions from friends in the industry, so I'll keep the Forum posted of any more like this that happen to drop my way.
Best and condolences,
Dan.
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Thanks
I "need" sorry "want" another Brooks Titanium Swallow!
I think I paid £90 for the one I have now approx 20 years ago!
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Thanks
I "need" sorry "want" another Brooks Titanium Swallow!
I think I paid £90 for the one I have now approx 20 years ago!
You like Swallow!
I have a new "Swallow Limited Edition 2005" just hanging on my wall, I order it year's ago before finding out that it was a Limited Edition Brooks ;) too good to use and cost to mush to sale :(
I love my Team Pro Chrome and Flyer Special (the best)
Pete.
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It would be nice to have a Brooks saddle on all my road bikes.
Have to keep saving up the pennies!
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I like the B17 saddles but as I have registered for the 40% discount I thought I would try either the Swallow or the Team Pro. Has anyone had any problems with either of these saddles?
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Hi Richard!
I haven't had any problems with the Swallow or Team Pro in terms of construction, but I have in terms of suitability for purpose.
Let's look at how the saddles differ:
The Swallow measures 153mm wide x 285mm long
The Team Pro measures 160 wide x 273mm long
The B.17 (Standard-series, not Narrow) measures 175mm wide x275mm long
Now, let's look at what happens when you sit on a saddle in various positions:
A person sits on their ischial tuberosities -- sit bones. Those vary in effective width depending on how upright you sit. As you lean forward, the pelvis also rotates forward and the bony prominences converge (narrow). As you sit more upright, the pelvis rotates backward and the spacing of the sit-bones becomes effectively wider.
None of this would matter much except the Brooks saddles are essentially leather slings riveted to a steel frame rail at the rear. If the saddle (as defined by the steel rail...the suspended leather is much narrower) is too skinny for your position/sit bones, you end up sitting on the steel frame at the rear. Having learned this early on the hard way, I can tell you after a few miles it is exquisite agony, and it will never get better, 'cos the human sit bones are *not* stronger than the steel subframe. My experience was with a gorgeous Fujita Pro saddle with a very thick water buffalo cover. It killed me for touring (actually wore holes in Danneaux! :o ) but worked wonderfully well for my neighbor, who put it on a bike with a very long-reach stem and he mostly rode on the drops. Riding that way, his sit-bones were narrow enough to ride on suspended leather. Sitting more upright, I got the steel flange -- ouch!
I really think this is one reason why some people don't like leather saddles -- the saddle isn't matched to their intended use and they're riding on the unyielding rear support flange, instead of being nicely suspended on a hammock of leather that quickly shapes to their behind.
The trick, then, is to match the saddle width to your intended position. If you tend to raise your handlebars until they are the same height as the saddle top, go with the B.17. If your handlebars are considerably lower than the saddle-top or you habitually use the drops, then you'll be fine with a Swallow or Pro. It's down to horses for courses. Andre can tell you that for even more upright use, nothing beats one of Brook's spring-equipped saddles, and he is absolutely correct. For the gentleperson riding in an upright position, I can think of nothing better. However, for general touring, the B.17 and its variations rules. For sporty-speedy use, the Swallow or Team Pro should be fine.
Best,
Dan.
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Dan
Thanks you have confirmed exactly what my thinking was.
As I am changing to a bike that will have the bars below the saddle I thought that a Team Pro would be ideal it is wider than the Swallow and I think it should suit its intended purpose. I have always found that the B17 breaks in very quickly and hopefully this should do the same. My one issue with the B17 is that on an extend ride it eventually irritates only slightly my inner thigh and I hope with the narrow saddle and the chamfered sides this may not happen.
Also as a result of your earlier post I have managed to get one with 40% discount which is always a bonus so thanks for that also.
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Hi Richard!
I'm pleased the earlier posts were helpful to you, and yes! -- I do think the Brooks Pro will do the job nicely for you in the position you describe. I wold probably choose it over the Swallow, which I have already tried. If you haven't seen the underside of the Swallow, it is a little different from the more conventional Brooks saddle. See: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007/shows/nahmbs07/?id=/photos/2007/tech/shows/nahmbs07/nahmbs075/Brooks_Limited_Edition_Swallow_titanium_bottom_view for a photo showing clearly how the side leather is rolled under and secured with a center plate in the center. I found the shallow sides actually seemed to catch my shorts legs/thighs a bit more than the more conventional saddles with longer side skirts. Of course, this varies with the rider and most Swallow users I've talked to love theirs.
As for the B.17 rubbing slightly on your inner thigh...
These saddles are all handmade, and some variations are inevitable. The one that arrived on Sherpa is canted to one side at the nose, and one side flares noticeably, but the top is square as can be.
If you keep the B.17 and wish to try and address the rubbing problem, it is both possible and easy to punch or drill several holes in each saddle skirt and lace the sides together. Brooks itself does this on at least one model, the Imperial ( http://www.brooksengland.com/catalogue-and-shop/saddles/Touring%20&%20Trekking/B17%20Imperial/ ). For some nice tutorials on the do-it-yourself version, see:
http://andy.ride-earth.org.uk/blog/2010/10/11/how-to-lace-up-a-misshapen-brooks-champion-flyer-saddle/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/brookssaddles/discuss/72157619231337301/
http://highsnobiety.com/columns/jeffcarvalho/2008/09/23/how-to-lace-a-brooks-saddle/
Do be aware if you lace the saddle it will not only become narrower, but also stiffer, at least initially.
There are other ways to reshape a Brooks saddle, and I can detail them if there is sufficient interest. It is also easy to replace frames and covers and re-rivet saddles with larger, all-copper Brooks rivets. I have done many for myself and others, always with good results.
Best,
Dan.
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I have always found that the B17 breaks in very quickly and hopefully this should do the same.
Richard
I tried a Team Pro and it definitely did not break in as quickly as a B17. As a result I revisited the Brooks website to find "The Team Pro and the B17 Narrow are our stiffest saddle offerings. ". This is consistent with my first ever Brooks saddle, a 'B17 Narrow' which took months to break in. With that in mind I gave up on the Team Pro and reverted to a standard B17 which for me is very comfortable straight out of the box.
Having said that, the Team Pro would have been ideal for my drop bar bike if I had been prepared to go through the extended breaking in process, and I believe it would last a good bit longer than a standard B17. As in an earlier post on this thread I got a Swift Titanium with 40% off for my drop bar bike, which I think is in between these two in breaking in terms.
Be patient Richard and you will be rewarded with a very fine saddle for many years to come. ;)
Jim
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I have four Brooks :o I find Swallow is very Stiff after I got my Limited Edition (which was to good to MTB with I got a STD Swallow, it was just too stiff for me so I sold it off.
I like my Team Pro Chrome and my Swift Titanium very much but I love my Flyer Special
I would like to find a new Conquest (it's a Narrow version of a Flyer) at the end of the day a Brooks is the only way to go!
;D
Pete
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Anyone who missed this 40% discount deal shouldn't be too disappointed as the starting prices from Brooks themselves are much higher than many other retailers offer Brooks saddles at.
e.g. Team Pro direct from Brooks is ?73 but available from bike-discount.de (http://www.bike-discount.de/inhalt/impressum.html) for around ?47 plus about ?6 postage.
Bike-Discount.de don't have the full Brooks range but they have some great prices on other models too.
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My sweetheart's son has a type of autism. He's 18, just graduating from high school, heading off to college, planning to study electrical engineering. In some ways he is quite smart, but then sometimes he just misses the boat. That's how his autism manifests!
He and I are registered for the Erie Canal Ride (http://www.ptny.org/canaltour/index.shtml) in early July - 400 miles in 8 days. Then after that, his Mom, and perhaps my sister and maybe even one of my sister's friends, will head into New York City for the Bridges Ride for Autism. (http://www.bridgesrideforautism.com/) This will only be 19 miles, but my sweetheart isn't a big biker, or hasn't been.
But then she suggests we get in a bit of training, on the Hurley Rail Trail (http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/103886045), which ought to be quite flat. I use the S&S couplers on my Nomad to pack that in the rear luggage compartment of my Corolla, and then hang her Giant Transcend (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/transend.dx.w/5689/36580/) off a rack on the back of the car.
The start of the trail along Route 209 is smooth and level. But then where the trail and the road split apart, the trail turns into gravel, mud, tree roots, etc. Neither of us have ever been on this section of the trail. In fact we're not quite sure where it goes!
We just keep going to find out where it goes, and end up in High Falls, where we get a nice brunch at The Last Bite (http://thelastbitesite.com/).
By the time we get back to the car, it's turned into a 19 mile bike ride. My sweetheart says it's the longest ride she's ever been on! And she's sore from all the bumping around!
When this thread got started, I took the survey and wrote down the codes for the discount on the back of some envelope along with all kinds of other odd notes. I looked at the Brooks web site to see how I might take advantage of the discount. I love Ventile cloth and would love one of their cycling jackets, but 60% of $1000 is still out of my budget! I have a spare Flyer Select in my storage unit, in reserve for when my current Flyer Special gives up the ghost. I just couldn't see a good way to use the discount!
After today's ride, I could see that a B67 could be just the ticket for my sweetheart. Oh, that discount! When I got home I dug through my trash and lo, there was the envelope! And the discount is valid through June 21! So I just ordered a B67 S Aged. 57 Euro instead of 95. Nice!
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...I could see that a B67 could be just the ticket for my sweetheart. Oh, that discount! When I got home I dug through my trash and lo, there was the envelope! And the discount is valid through June 21! So I just ordered a B67 S Aged. 57 Euro instead of 95. Nice!
What a wonderful story, Jim, and so glad the discount worked out to bring your sweetie into the Brooksian fold. I'm sure she'll enjoy it, and this change might make biking in general more appealing to her.
I so hope the Erie Canal Ride will go well for you and her son. He's dealing with some challenges, and you may be too as you ride with him on the long tour. A good deal of patience may be the answer. Some friends have kids who fall somewhere on the autistim/Asperger's spectrum, and they find the simpler life of camping does wonders. As their son said, "The world here is about the right size for me". Ironic, given he was talking about the Great Outdoors, but perfectly understandable when taken to mean a simpler lifestyle with less "noise and static" for him to deal with. Perhaps that will be the case here as well. There is a gentle rhythm to camping, touring, and living outdoors, and certainly the simpler lifestyle appeals to me as well.
The Bridges Ride for Autism sounds special because you can all do it together.
Meanwhile, the ride to The Last Bite sounds worth it for the food alone -- sign me up for the "Widowmaker" sandwich!
Isn't it great to explore new paths and places? Now you know where the path goes when it splits off Route 209, and your sweetheart surprised herself! Well done, and a nice introduction to longer (but not "too long") cycling for her.
Best,
Dan.
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Now you know where the path goes
One fun detail about this rail trail. There is one place where a long railroad bridge is just gone. The stone abutments are all that is left. The trail drops down into the low ground cut by the creek, and crosses the creek over a much smaller bridge. The trail cuts a sharp turn around the first abutment before a steep descent. I was going slow but had a difficult time keeping control on that steep gravel. I shouted a warning and my sweetheart could stop at the top and walk down.
Coming back through after our brunch, I tried to climb that gravel but quickly gave up. Standing up on the pedals to get the power to climb such a steep grade, I lost the weight I needed on the rear wheel to get enough grip on the gravel. I have 2 inch Duremes on the bike.
This was the first time I've had to walk my Nomad up a hill! Often enough I have stopped to get my wind back, but then I keep riding. This otherwise very gently sloped rail trail was just beyond my capabilities!
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A couple comments about that little hill from
http://www.traillink.com/trail-reviews/d--h-canal-heritage-corridor-(ow-rail-trail).aspx (http://www.traillink.com/trail-reviews/d--h-canal-heritage-corridor-(ow-rail-trail).aspx)
Large Hill North of 213 where bridge used to be:
Hi, I saw that this hill is already mentioned. I have a a suggestion (would love to know where to send it) It's very difficult to walk down with a bike and a very bad idea to ride down. I would suggest putting a railing of some sort to hold on to as you walk down to control the pace and weight. The other hand can then hold the bike. It would make the ride possible. As it is now I'd want to turn back at that point. Thanks
Dangerous hill:
The part the past Cottekill road to Leggett road has very dangerous hill where once a rail road bridge was.
Do not ride down hill. It is very easy to fall. It is very poorily designed.
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The B67 S Pre-Aged got delivered here this morning:
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/kukulaj/b67ob.jpg)
I gather the "aging" process makes the leather soft enough that it is liable to sag before long, so they install laces to make it easy to snug it up lateraly:
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/kukulaj/b67rev.jpg)
If my sweetheart comes to love this saddle, then maybe for the next one we will skip the pre-age bit, and the one after then can be the tougher Select version. But for someone who is not sure about cycling at all and for whom the Brooks is intended to create a more comfortable entry, the pre-aging seems appropriate.
Here is the saddle on her bike:
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/kukulaj/b67onbike.jpg)
Not a fancy bike. I was surprised to find that the seat clamp has no tilt adjustment! The saddle seems comfortable enough to me on my little ride around the grass. She and her son are off for a few days at his first year college orientation. I'll be anxious to see how she likes her new saddle, but no telling when she will get around to testing it! So I need to relax and let go!
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Hi Jim!
Gee, that's a lovely saddle, and even prettier on the bike. It really helps to see how they look off the catalog page. Much nicer than I could have imagined. The lacing looks good, too. Indications are good for an early break-in for your sweetie.
Have you seen how nicely Richard's saddle has aged in his latest update for Torla? See:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3916.msg20447#msg20447
Not a fancy bike...
Oh, but a very pretty one in that shot of yours. If one looks past the straight-bladed fork, it has classic lines and the rack stays are so very nicely curved. Someone who Cared about bikes set it up. I suspect it was you, given the very nice job you've done on your Nomad.I was surprised to find that the seat clamp has no tilt adjustment!
:o None?!? What a shocker! Wow! I hadn't thought that possible! If it helps, the angle looks near 'nuff perfect in the photo. Fingers crossed it will be in practice; indications are good it will be fine.She and her son are off for a few days...I'll be anxious to see how she likes her new saddle, but no telling when she will get around to testing it! So I need to relax and let go!
Ohhh, the waiting is the hardest part, Jim! No doubt she'll be thrilled when she sees it and how very nice it looks on the bike. Well done!
All the best,
Dan.
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Jim - great looking bike! With that saddle and frame your lady is up there with the cycle chic of Paris!
http://www.cyclechicparis.com/ (http://www.cyclechicparis.com/)
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the cycle chic of Paris!
I think the basket helps, too! The bike came with the fenders and rear rack. She really shocked me when she just bought that bike on the spot when we saw in in the bike shop around the corner! But she definitely has an eye for chic!
We live in Woodstock NY which is a big weekend town for New York City folk and really people from all over. The bike scene here is definitely picking up. There have long been mountain bikers and roadies and then the "beater" bikes. But now some very hip urban bikes are showing up, fixies and such. I should take a camera on the street and try to catch some of the rising ferment!
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Ah, my sweetheart went out for a ride this morning:
http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/107991601 (http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/107991601)
& made no negative comments about the new B67 on her bike. Mind you, I didn't go fishing for them, either!
I've been encouraging her to take frequent short rides rather than rare long rides. 3.5 miles is a good starting point - with 120 feet of climbing!
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Jim,
I'm guessing it is Yerry Hill that accounts for the "bump" in your elevation graph.
my sweetheart went out for a ride this morning
Well, this is encouraging, but not as much as...& made no negative comments about the new B67
Outstanding! Sometimes, no news is good news, where saddle comfort is concerned.I didn't go fishing for them, either!
Nuh uh! If the saddle is "transparent" to her riding experience, that is the very best outcome of all! "New saddle? What new saddle? Doesn't look "brand new" to me...". A very wise choice of finishes in more ways than one, methinks. I've been encouraging her to take frequent short rides rather than rare long rides.
<nods> The perfect strategy, Jim, and one that will allow her fitness and comfort levels to climb, rather than break-down. If frequent shorter rides are pleasurable, they will only encourage longer stuff while keeping it all fun and enjoyable.3.5 miles is a good starting point - with 120 feet of climbing!
Sounds like the ideal mix for all purposes.
Keep it up, Jim; you're doing all the right things to introduce her to cycling more while making it still appeal. Well done! And, she does have an unusually nice-looking bike to do it on. I am still amazed at how "right" it looks with the new saddle. Not surprising; a Brooks complements the appearance of many bikes!
Best,
Dan.
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I'm guessing it is Yerry Hill that accounts for the "bump" in your elevation graph.
It is a total mystery to me how MapMyRide puts a category 5 hill in that 3.5 mile ride. Tinker Street is a long very gradual climb, like 1%, from Woodstock to Bearsville. That little turn up toward the real Yerry Hill doesn't really get as far as the hill.
Here is the real Yerry Hill climb.
http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/59272932 (http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/59272932)
I think actually my first photo posted here was on Yerry Hill Rd! That is still a tough climb but I can get up it now. I am definitely getting stronger, but it sure is a slow process!
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oooo, out on her bike two days in a row, and I got invited along this morning!
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/kukulaj/twobrooks.jpg)
I took my Azor with its B66. I have the nose on my saddle up quite a bit, so I was worried about her saddle because her seatpost forces it to be level. But then I could see, on my Azor I am sitting quite vertical while on her Giant she is leaning forward - not a lot, but maybe 30 degrees. I think the angle of the saddle needs to reflect the angle of the pelvis which will reflect the angle of the torso.
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I reckon you're correct about the saddle angle for different riding positions. I find a similar angle is required to be comfortable on my Shogun Metro roadster.
(http://inlinethumb59.webshots.com/40058/2770176530074746151S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2770176530074746151jrymMV)