Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: Danneaux on July 24, 2011, 10:58:13 PM
-
Hi All,
After some years of wanting and waiting, I am now at the point of placing an order for a Thorn Sherpa. I have read Thorn's details for local sales assistance and delivery and am most impressed, but I am unsure how best to proceed for purchase from the United States and delivery to me on the Pacific Coast. I really don't know what path a foreign order takes after it is initiated or what to expect.
Is there a FAQ for foreign purchase and delivery, perhaps by country? I have questions about typical shipping costs, placing a carrier claim in the event of shipping damage, and what I might expect in terms of US Customs fees and duties, or when when the bill for same might arrive. I've scoured the forums here and gained some insight, but not much in terms of specifics and recent information.
I have sent Thorn an email this weekend with my contact telephone and hope to hear from them at the start of the business week. I've filled out the order form, checked my size, color, options and preferences, and listed my measurements and those of my favorite current bicycle for the setup dimensions; I'm prepared!
I'm most grateful for any thoughts, insight, and advice on foreign purchase and experience with the process and also beyond dealing with Thorn, which seems to provide exemplary assistance and customer service. Their staff were surely kind to answer my early emailed questions promptly and completely and I was most impressed to receive an in-depth reply from Andy Blance himself about the design. That tipped the balance toward an immediate purchase.
I am impressed by the forum and its members and the high quality of interaction here, and I thank you in advance for any information you may share.
Best,
Dan.
Oregon, USA
-
I ordered a Nomad last October & it arrived in November, a few days before Thanksgiving. The customs bill - 11% - arrived a few months later. I didn't find it necessary to file any claims, so I can't comment on that. It was a FedEx truck that came to my door, though it didn't leave GB by FedEx. Some import agent at JFK in NYC handled the import process - that's where I sent the customs fee.
I paid Thorn with several wire transfers through my bank. I was trying to hedge any currency fluctuations. But the bank fees & exchange rates were horrible. See if you can't use a credit card instead - I think the rates are better.
I'm having a blast with my bike - lots of delightful territory to explore here in the Catskills! Slowly I am getting stronger and extending my range. My fantasy is to visit as many farm stands around the area as possible, to haul home the best of the harvest!
-
Oh, thanks Jim! That's just the sort of nuts 'n' bolts information I was seeking and I'm grateful for the response.
I've long wanted a Thorn, and realize I've been in love with the bike for some time, so it is good to hear you like yours as well.
Thanks also for the suggestion of using a credit card. I've been on the phone to the issuing banks, and it appears some have higher "foreign transaction fees" than others. Right now, it appears I may be looking at 3%. Add that to the 11% customs bill plus shipping, and it is going to cost a bit to get the bike here. Offsetting that is the British VAT credit. I would imagine as a rule of thumb, I could come pretty close by converting the Thorn price in GBP to dollars and calling it good.
I'm wondering if it might be possible to pay the entire cost of the bike at once, thus locking in the price now. I'm a bit concerned next week's congressional budget decision will result in a huge dollar-valuation fluctuation no matter how it goes.
By any chance, do you recall what the shipping fees were last October? It has been awhile since then, but would give me a base to work from. Trying to budget up-front for not only the bike and accessories, but the ancillary costs as well.
Here's hoping you'll have lots of farm produce to bring home; our weather has been terrible for farmer's crops -- rainy and cold this summer in Oregon until this very weekend.
Best,
Dan.
-
Looks like 360 GBP is what I paid, so $550 more or less, for shipping.
What nailed me on wiring money was not so much explicit fees, but the exchange rate. It was like 1.66 dollars per pound when yahoo finance was listing 1.61 dollars per pound. I wish I had done my homework better!
I am sure you could pay the whole bill up front. The news out of D.C. is certainly unsettling! Truth is, that's a lot of my justification for the bike. I read folks like
http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/
so I am thinking a sturdy bike might be just the ticket in five or ten years.
-
BTW I was living in Hillsboro OR not too long ago. Lots of nice biking around there!
-
Hi, both .
Just for comparision: the custom fee in my country (Ukraine) is 45$ on items cost more then 200 EUR.
Plus shipping, which is, in my case a little more then UK VAT deduction, so you could easily get to 50% addition to price-list.
Here in Ukraine I have no choise of touring bikes of that quality, but to import one from German or UK. Approximately at the same cost.
Bur in US I read about Bruce Gordon, Co-Motion, Rivendell (Rohloff equiped, 26th, tourers), Bilenky, Seven which bikes seems to be at the same range of cost and quality.
So why bother with overseas import?
Regards,
Cedric.
-
I didn't do a thorough price & feature comparison... but the figures I sketched indicated that the Thorn was quite competitive with the USA brands, despite all the import expense.
I just learned that one of the Co-Motion founders is a cousin of one of my childhood friends! Would that have swayed my decision, had I known?
-
Hi, Jim .....
Definitely the world is small. :)
For Dan - Co-Motion is also located in Oregon, if I'm not mistaken.
-
Thanks, all, for the kind and insightful responses. I think the thing to do is finalize the build sheet and then commit to the entire purchase to lock-in the price at the current exchange rates. It is a gamble, for sure, but the dollar has already dropped about 1.3 cents against the GBP since yesterday and I am very concerned at the effect of the US budget ceiling confirmation or denial. Either way, I believe the exchange rates are going to be affected, and the stock market is reflecting that today as well. If I guess wrong the the dollar climbs in value...well, I'll still own a very nice bicycle.
JimK and Cedric, thanks also for the suggestions to consider a domestic (US) builder. I live in Eugene, and have toured Dwan and Danny's Co-Motion facility several times and some years ago, arranged university bike-class tours of Bruce Gordon's shop when he was also based in Eugene. Gary Hale is another local-area builder I've been lucky to know for nearly 30 years. Clearly, we're fortunate here in the US -- and the Northwest in particular -- to have a number of fine builders whose workmanship and products are exquisite. Portland is even richer soil, with Sacha White (Vanilla) and others. I build frames myself for a hobby, so I am familiar with what goes into a custom frame and bicycle. With materials costs, component costs, paint/powdercoat and my time, I really couldn't match the value of a Sherpa as a complete bicycle. That might not be the case if I went with 700C wheels and components I already have and simply made or purchased a frame, but when you add in the cost of all the 26"-wheeled components, it makes sense to buy instead of make. That's why I have decided to purchase one.
Nice as these domestic framebuilders' products are, they don't quite fill my needs. I am a long-distance solo adventure rider who has to carry a great deal of weight in water stores for desert crossings where only non-potable alkali water sources prevail. For an example, see:
http://giantloopmoto.blogspot.com/search?q=Daniel+Wood
I am fortunate to own a variety of nice touring bicycles to use, but it is plain I need something more robust and while I might prefer a Rohloff-equipped Nomad, my budget allows for the derailleur Sherpa. The Co-Motion Americano, for example, is a wonderful frame/bicycle and well-reviewed. I was most impressed when I saw it, but the Sherpa is a better fit for my purposes and -- despite the unenviable situation caused by the poor Dollar-Pound exchange rate -- is a relative bargain. The Co-Motion would be considerably more expensive even so.
And, too, there's the indefinable...I have already fallen "in love" with the satin black 560S Sherpa. :) Hard to argue with that.
Cedric, you make a very good point of comparison with other countries. I spent some time looking at the tariff schedules for other countries as well as the US, and was shocked to find there is something close to a 213% tariff on bicycles imported to Thailand if I read correctly. There is a Thorn Owner's Group there; they must be dedicated. They've posted some terrific photos of their bicycles that can be found with a Google or Bing image search.
That all said, it takes an act of faith to buy a bicycle by this means unridden and sight-unseen. Offsetting that is this very helpful user's forum and the words of many happy and satisfied customers and the reassurance Thorn will work through any problems that might arise. The Thorn online sales brochure has really helped as well, and I've nearly read the print off the pages, looking at every detail. I hope it will work out alright in the end, and have faith it will.
Thanks again for your input, thoughts, and suggestions, and please add any more you can. I also have questions about tire selection, and will address those in a separate topic in the appropriate forum.
Best,
Dan.
-
Hi, Dan .
Sure, there will be no default as there is still no default for Greece yet. :) Let's see next Tuesday . Other way it will hurt TOO many around the Globe.
In October 2008 Ukrainian UAH depreciated against USD up to 40% and I would say that we were a little unhappy with that. So do not be afraid of small fluctuations up to 10% you will forget about them in several months of happy riding.
When I found out about Thorn and read thoroughly all the booklets I also started the comparison with other similar bikes (especially German which are closer to Ukraine). Many information I found on this forum. And, without telling you further details, certainly you know better, came to the conclusion that Thorn has much more advantages than any other.
About colour - don't you think that it would be much better in bright colours (yellow, red) for better visibility on the roads?
Regards,
Cedric.
-
JimK, While the shipping costs seem jaw-droppingly high, it is reassuring to know they are in line with what you paid; thanks. May I contact you offline if I have specific questions?
Cedric, as to color, I think it might be best to start a new thread for that discussion so this one stays on-topic for foreign/USA purchase to make future searches easier. If you start a new topic on color, I'll be glad to weigh in with an opinion! You may contact me offline if you wish. It sounds as if we are both moving toward purchase of a Thorn.
Thanks, guys. -- Dan.
-
May I contact you offline if I have specific questions?
Certainly do - my email address is on my profile.
Jim
-
Well, everyone, after an agony of indecision -- after all, I have never ridden or even seen a Thorn Sherpa in person, and it is a lot of money _to me_ -- especially with nearly USD$1000 added to the purchase price in shipping, credit card conversion fees, and US Customs duties of 11% due -- I have now purchased a Thorn Sherpa.
I made the decision to pay all at once to lock-in the present exchange rate. My worst fears regarding dollar valuation fortunately came to naught when the new US budget ceiling was approved this last weekend, and whatever happens from here on, I will have a wonderful bicycle to enjoy, I'm sure. I stayed awake late last night to catch Thorn early in their day, and I have to confess I was so keyed-up with excitement, I didn't fall asleep till after 3:30AM.
I viewed the entire experience through a lens of some anxiety over the process and purchase for reasons stated above, *and* I can also assure prospective buyers the nice folks at Thorn really have done everything they said they would. They answered my emailed questions promptly. If something was overlooked, then a followup question by me resolved the concern with answers from Sarah, Lisa, Steve, or Andy Blance himself. Conversations by telephone worked even better, and I wish I had gone that route throughout. Lisa Parsons is one of the nicest people in the world to deal with, and Sarah did a great job too. I'm sure this is true of the entire staff.
Having been through the process, I would suggest placing a call when working toward placing an order; you can interact with the person at the other end in real-time so questions are answered immediately. If Thorn staff are busy, do leave a message and they will get back to you one way or another. The prospective buyer fills out Thorn's online form with all requested measurements, then just emails it as a PDF attachment to Thorn. All will be put in writing and sent back as an email quote for your review, so you needn't be concerned about having a written record. The emailed quote gave me a chance for full review and I made some changes as a result -- I changed rims, tires, and fenders and deleted some items I was unsure about. The sales form and resulting quote/build sheet is well-conceived and executed; ask Thorn to email a screen shot rather than a printout, as it captures all the quote/build sheet to the margins so all information is included.
If there is a shortage of parts or colors when my time arrives, I'm certainly happy to wait to get what I'd like. In terms of process and timeline, Sarah advised me there is currently a 5-week waiting queue. She said the boys in the shop will build the wheels first and have them waiting and when my place in line comes due, they'll start assembling the bike to order. When it is ready, they'll call or send an email (I prefer email so I'll have a record and won't miss a call) and tell me they're ready to ship. From that point, it might take around a week to reach the U.S. and then it will take however long it takes to clear U.S. Customs before it is released to make the trip cross-country to me on the West Coast here in Oregon. At present, Thorn ships by Tuffnell's for the UK leg and they hand-off to TNT in the U.S. I'm wondering if TNT in turn might sub-contract with FedEx for stateside residential delivery, based on other U.S. customer's reports. Sarah carefully rechecked the build sheet/quote and price a fourth time and confirmed I wanted the 560S frame size with drop handlebars and the satin black and with uncut, 400mm steerer (in my size frame). All was correct, so I placed the order for everything including shipping.
For others in this position, I would suggest notifying your credit card company a week or so in advance that you plan to make the purchase sometime in the two weeks or so to follow. That way, they will be alerted to the purchase and it will go through straight away and not be refused on concerns of fraudulent activity. I'd also suggest leaving that two-week window for purchase so you will have time to make any changes to the initial quote and can work things out with Thorn if there is are concerns. For example, I was a bit concerned my Zefal HPX pump might not fit the pegs if I chose the 2" tires and 55mm fenders, but Lisa dispelled that worry straight away; it will be fine.
The only issue that gave me pause was the elimination of VAT for foreign orders. Try as I might, I could not make Thorn's figures come out to a 20% reduction until I learned how the VAT tax is structured and calculated. Unlike state sales taxes where the item is priced conventionally as tax is added at the register, the VAT results in a tax-included price and the reduction comes on that. I would suggest American buyers search online for a VAT calculator or Google "How to calculate UK VAT" for help. Once I did that, all the figures fell into line and Thorn's calculations proved spot-on.
I hope this helps the next prospective American buyer of a Thorn. Now, the only worry is whether it will arrive damage-free, but Lisa assures me it will be properly insured at their end and they will assist me in making things right should the worst happen, so really no worries at all!
I can't wait!
Best regards and thanks to all for your input, thoughts, and shared experiences; they helped a lot.
Dan.
Eugene, OR -- USA
-
I should point out I consider Thorn's actual prices for the Sherpa to be not only fair, but a bargain for what is offered. The real difference in price is largely accounted for by the dollar-pound exchange rate and incidental fees and costs (shipping, duties, credit card conversion fees that can be avoided in some cards) that have nothing to do with Thorn's pricing structure. Their bikes remain a remarkable deal in my opinion, particularly for design and value received. -- Dan.
-
Hey Dan - while you are waiting for your Sherpa, here is a nice journal
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=1r4vFZo&doc_id=8134&v=Ta
of a young fellow currently on a major tour, riding his own new Sherpa!
-
I did not see this thread until now, sorry.
I bought a used Thorn Sherpa frame and fork about a year and a half ago and have been very happy with it. The original owner lives in Canada and apparently shipping costs to Canada are much lower than to USA. He shipped it to me in Wisconsin from Washington State, I think the shipping was a bit over $50 USD.
Two years ago I was quoted 140 pounds for shipping cost for a frame and fork from the UK which at that time was about $225 USD. I sent SKS an e-mail saying I was not in a big hurry and could be patient if they used a slower shipping method and asked if they could do better than that for shipping cost. I got no response to my e-mail so I assumed that they did not want my business.
I think you will be very happy with the bike. It is robust and handles well with a load.
-
Thanks, Mick, for the reply. I am in the process of waiting for the build to complete, then delivery. The days really do pass, and I know the delivery will be here before I know it. As a kid, I'd save cereal box-tops for the prizes advertised on the back of the box. Just about the time the mailman picked up the post and got to the end of the street, I'd figure he'd go 'round the block one more time and deliver my Prize Whatsit. Of course, it didn't work that way, and I had to learn patience at an early age. I'm being patient now. ;D
Thanks too, JimK, for the link to the Sherpa tour on the CrazyGuyOnABike site. Boy, that sure whets the appetite for adventure! I can't wait to get the new bike and take it out for some shakedown runs in Oregon's Cascade mountain range and the Coast Range as well.
I'll be sure and let everyone know when it arrives...though you'll no doubt hear the whoops of joy when it does.
All the best,
Dan.
-
Just to let followers know...
I paid for my Sherpa in full and placed my final order on 2 August 2011. On 8 September, I received notice from Lisa at Thorn saying it was completed 7 September and awaiting shipping. That put the build time right between 4-5 weeks, as estimated by Thorn at time of purchase in what wass still their high season. Because I would be traveling, she said it was my call to choose immediate or delayed shipping, so I chose immediate and received notice the bike was dispatched the next day, 9 September.
In her completion email, Lisa estimated 5-10 working days, and this seems realistic given it has to transit the US to my home on the West Coast. When Cath at Thorn notified me of dispatch, she indicated it could arrive in as little a 4-6 days. I suppose this is possible if it arrives and is cleared at a customs port here on the West Coast.
Now, all I have to do is wait...!
Hopefully, the next post will say it is here...and perfect!
Best,
Dan.
-
As I recall, I could track the shipment on the U.K. side of things. I think it flew to Amsterdam and then New York. Probably yours will go to San Francisco. Then it just disappeared from the radar. Several days later I got a phone call from the transfer agent that handles customs, and it was just a couple days later it showed up at my door.
I'm sure still enjoying my Fearless Nomad!
-
JimK,
Thanks for the your thoughts regarding the possible route my Sherpa may take on delivery. Your thoughts give me hope it may arrive sooner rather than later -- especially if it can arrive at a West Coast US Customs Office instead of landing, say, in New York and then having to go overland from there.
WRT tracking, Cath at Thorn advised, "Unfortunately Tuffnells do not provide tracking numbers for third parties such as yourself as technically we are their customer". I have seen it go both ways with shippers making tracking numbers available to both shipper and intended recipient, but increasingly, such info seems restricted to the shipping party.
Jim...it may have been you in an earlier post or someone else, but I remember a previous American buyer mentioning a telephone call from either the transfer agent or US Customs asking for a Social Security number...I presume for the later Customs billing for 11% of the bike purchase price. I'm a little leery of giving my Social Security number to some voice on the telephone...by any chance did the party clearly identify themselves in regard to the purpose and relate it to the purchase of your bike? This part has me kinda worried in this age of easy identity theft.
Also, a question for any others reading... I have read various claims indicating the 11% US Customs fee may be reduced if an imported bicycle is used for commercial purposes. Since mine will eventually be used in my role as a tour leader, that possibility is attractive. Does anyone know more about the particulars and if this is still (or ever was) a possibility? From what I've read, it may take as much as 90 days for the US Customs bill to arrive, and then there is a timeframe for possible appeal, say in the event the fee is based on total cost including shipping and not just the net cost of the bike. Thanks in advance for any info.
Man! Waiting is agony! For once, I'm hoping the days pass quickly...of course, I was the kid who saved cereal box-tops for prizes, and then started watching for the return post right after my letter was collected. Jim, your Nomad is a beauty!
Best,
Dan.
-
a telephone call from either the transfer agent or US Customs asking for a Social Security number...I presume for the later Customs billing for 11% of the bike purchase price. I'm a little leery of giving my Social Security number to some voice on the telephone...by any chance did the party clearly identify themselves in regard to the purpose and relate it to the purchase of your bike? This part has me kinda worried in this age of easy identity theft.
Yeah, it was a curious phone call, and identity theft is surely a concern. It was a transfer agent that I'd never heard of... ah, the miracle of Quicken: it was TNT Express. I imagine there are many such agents, but this is the only time I have played in such territory. I didn't quiz the fellow at all - I forget how I managed to track the bike, but I was sure expecting to receive some kind of signal plus or minus a couple days. I'm sure you could poke about a bit to make sure the folks really have your bike. Why do they need a social security number, I have no idea!
-
it may take as much as 90 days for the US Customs bill to arrive,
My customs bill came from TNT Express, about a month after my bike arrived.
-
Cath at Thorn advised, "Unfortunately Tuffnells do not provide tracking numbers for third parties such as yourself as technically we are their customer".
I don't see any record of the tracking number in my email archives. Entirely possible that I figured out the route my bike had taken after I received it, by using the tracking number on the box. Or maybe my imagination has carried me off, yet again!
-
Thanks, Jim...your experience has given me a bit of a heads-up and some fair warning wrt to the likely call I'll be getting...and from whom. I Know Lisa Parsons at Thorn mentioned Tuffnall's would be handing off to TNT stateside (they appear to be Australian-owned), so that squares with your experience. If the person doesn't say, then I'll ask which firm he represents and the "right" answer should be TNT.
Again, I really appreciate your kindness in reviewing your records, Jim.
Waiting...!
Best,
Dan.
-
Hi, Dan .
Any news yet? Can't wait for pics.
Regards,
Cedric
-
The Sherpa arrived 2 weeks ago! I am thrilled, but some issues in assembly and delivery (which Thorn hastened to correct at all levels) have delayed riding and final assembly. Pics and a full report soon, but early indications are it is a lovely, wonderful, superlative ride! Pics to follow in the gallery when it is all up to form.
Dan.
-
Congrats on your new bike! As an aside, US buyers don't have to pay customs on, for example, a Thorn frame, just a complete bike. I've bought tons of parts and accessories from SJS including a Ripio frame last year and have never been charged customs - because they're "parts" not "bikes". Best of luck with your new Sherpa.
-
Thanks for the kind words, Pexio, and the great information! I had a similar experience when I purchased my Thorn Low-Loader Mk. V front racks (love 'em!). The amount I saved in VAT just about equaled the postage fees; a very nice surprise and -- yes! - no Customs duty on them as they were "parts". The bicycle itself is wonderful, and I keep casting admiring glances at it myself and petting it occasionally! ;) It'll be a good 'un, I know, and it'll take a long time for the "new" to wear off. It has been 22 years since I last purchased a bike, so this is a Big Event for me.
The bike arrived 11 business days (weekdays) after I was notified of dispatch by Thorn, so it was pretty much right on schedule. It was handled by four carriers, according to the paperwork, stickers, and envelopes on the box: Tuffnells in the UK > TNT @ US entry > FedEx @ Houston > home delivery by UPS to me here in Oregon. I was prepared to pay about USD$300 in customs fees, but was grateful when Tuffnells tendered the bill a week after arrival for "only" USD$139.73. This included Tuffnells fees for negotiating the customs payment for me, and the bill was to reimburse them for the principal fees and their secondary fees, which were reasonable and I paid them online through their secure server -- no Social Security number needed. My proof of payment is an emailed receipt and my VISA billing (they also accept PayPal or you can send a check by post). Apparently, my Sherpa never saw a Customs inspection; it would seem the Tuffnells/Securitas x-ray certificate was sufficient in lieu of inspection. Based on how my Miyata 1000LT was heavily damaged by TSA inspection after a flight home from Europe, I'd feared the worst from a Customs inspection. The TSA told me no compensation was possible, and I'd heard the same about US Customs incidental damage, so it could have been costly if US anti-terrorism efforts had been directed toward my innocent new Sherpa.
I had been especially concerned about the Customs duties and fees. I spent most of a year as an undergraduate studying international tariff policy in depth, so I was already familiar with the basic tariff schedules. It appeared I might well be charged the full 11% in duties and perhaps even a bit more, thanks to the Sherpa having 26" wheels, for which a special fee can be assessed. Also, others' experience indicated I should expect the billing to arrive about 90 days after purchase...just in time for Christmas and really poor timing when one is in a holiday gift-buying frame of mind. After all, shipping worked out to about USD$627, and then I had the 3% credit card conversion fees atop that and the unfavorable exchange rate at the time, which didn't help much. I had expected to spend about USD$1000 to get the bike here atop the actual purchase price. I am really grateful it worked out as it did to be a bit less than that.
In my later telephone conversation with Robin, he mentioned the difficulty in achieving reasonable shipping rates compared to some other, larger firms in the UK. Perhaps we can all think of something to ease this burden on Thorn and future foreign customers. I've been looking at DHL's rates and it appears they might actually be less expensive while still providing good service to all. I think Tuffnells use of four contract shippers in my case may have added to the actual cost of delivery. That, and I am located in the NW corner of the US, so there was the additional matter of getting the bike to me from its (air)port of entry. I wasn't able to track the package because I wasn't Tuffnells customer, so I have only the package stickers and envelope contents to go on for how it was handled between there and here.
I plan to write up and post a timeline with suggestions and costs for prospective US buyers based on my 2011 August purchase/September delivery to me here in the Pacific Northwest. Things went pretty much as I'd hoped, but it would have relieved much of my angst to compare notes with a recent buyer so I'd know what to expect for sure in terms of delivery and customs arrangements. Even if prices should change, it will represent a recent purchase and another data point for prospective buyers and hopefully prove helpful.
Best,
Dan.
-
Greetings all,
My shipping/customs experience seems to have been a bit different than what I have read from others who have posted here. I'm curious if anyone else in the USA had a similar experience to mine.
I placed my Nomad order on Feb 1st and was told to expect a completion date somewhere around the 27th. I was super excited when I heard that it was finished on the 21st! It shipped on the 24th, I believe... And it was handed off to TNT on the 27th. At that point, I was able to view the tracking info myself.
It arrived at customs on March 1st. I had received a phone call from TNT asking for my social security number (a call which I expected thanks to those of you who pointed that out in your posts -- thank you) the next day. Over the next couple of days, there did not appear to be much movement. On the 5th, I received an e-mail from TNT with a copy of the declaration from Homeland Security stating that the duty taxes needed to be paid up front. I was surprised at this, since most of you indicated that a bill showed up in the mail a few weeks/months later. So, I called TNT and paid the duty taxes and they told me that it should clear customs within 48 hours, but in reality it could be as soon as an hour from then.
Well, 48 hours went by, and there were no tracking updates. I called TNT to ask if something was wrong, or if it was picked up and maybe the tracking status did not get updated... They told me that it should have definitely been picked up by now. They said they had to send this to their Tracing Department (yikes!) to find out what was going on... And they would call me back that afternoon to let me know the status.
By that point, I was worried that it got lost, or possibly stolen!
TNT did call me back that afternoon, and they did not elaborate on what happened, but they told me that TNT themselves would deliver it to me the following morning... instead of using another carrier which was originally planned.
And that is what happened... It showed up early on Thursday March 8th!
So... The main thing I am wondering from all of you is if anyone else was asked to pay the duty taxes up front before the package was released? That seems to be the biggest discrepency from what you all have said...
Christine
-
oooo, you must be one cool cat! The Tracing Department! Perish the thought! I am so happy to hear that things turned out just fine in the end. I don't have much hair and if it had been me hearing about Tracing Departments then that little bit would be gone too.
Probably you saw that I posted a photo of my Nomad as it looks today which is probably pretty close to what it will look like on the canal ride so you can keep an eye out!
As you get your bike put together and out on the road, please do post a photo, too!
-
I bought all three my most recent bikes sight unseen in different European countries for delivery to Ireland, an island off Britain which is itself an island off mainland Europe. Carriage is outrageously expensive, probably as much as shipping to the States, in some instances more. For my last bike I was fed up with Fedex/TNT/DHL ripping me and vented at the dealer. He suggested that he knew of a service that could cost as little as half the price of the household name couriers. There are these services where they make up a container load from various smaller parcels and at the other end split them up again. For a very large bike it turned out to be about 40% of what I was accustomed to paying, a saving of several hundred Euro, several hundred pounds sterling, many hundreds of dollars. And it was fully insured and guaranteed.
The hidden cost is that all the administration and collation takes up to four weeks. You get your bike when you get it. It is not, repeat not, an overnight service. Theoretically there is tracking but it never worked for me. Since the bike was insured for more than I actually paid (I negotiated a stiff "outgoing model" discount, a bit cheeky as my bike has been in production since 1936...), I didn't worry about that. The bike was promised if we all got very lucky for the last delivery day before Christmas or otherwise for the second week of January. All of this happened over Christmas/New Year a few years ago, and what with the festivities and other new things to distract me, I forgot all about the bike. At the end of the first week in January I remembered and called the local agent just to explain how to find my house; he called me back minutes later to report that my bike was in a container shunted to the rearmost corner of a sorting yard in a small Irish village not twenty miles from where I live, and had been sitting there since before Christmas, and they'd send it around as soon as the crane operator came back from his morning tea break. Next a monstrous trailer truck arrived in the street with my bike on a pallet standing all by its lonesome on a loadbed at least forty feet long.
The box was in a better condition than any other bike I'd ever had delivered, because it had been untouched by human hand, and in particular not thrown in and out of DHL/FedEx/UPS/TNT wrecking crew trucks at each of their "nodes", but handled on the palette by a palette crane, and then, according to route papers they obligingly looked up for me when I asked, only three times (your average couriered parcel -- including a bike -- is handled upward of thirty times, I worked out on an occasion when DHL stole one of my watches). By the way, the big truck came complete with a hydraulic lift gate and another trolley for moving the box to wherever I wanted it (as it happened on the sidewalk in front of my house because it was clearly in a rideable condition the minute I got the protective foam off), no nonsense about extra charges for moving the box a few feet out of the street, or round the back of the house to the stables if that was what I wanted. Altogether a pleasant experience.
So, if you can access such a service for a bike that has to travel to another country, I can report a happy experience. Whether you want to wait two or three weeks minimum, to a month for delivery to save a bit more than half the cost of couriering the bike, is something you must decide yourself. If Christmas hadn't intervened, I would in fact have had my bike under two weeks.
When i bought this bike, I didn't know it would become my all-time favourite bike; It was just another bike I bought because it has slightly odd engineering I wanted to study on my way to a full-custom bike of my own design, so there was no tearing hurry. If I'd known how well it would fit me, I'd have gone to Germany and fetched it back on the plane with me in a few suitcases and bugger the cost. In addition, this particular bike is sold to middle-aged comfortable men who will have it serviced by a dealer every year, and who lack the skills to put together a bike, so it is sold only fully assembled, which adds frighteningly to the carriage cost because the box is of course of an awkward shape. My understanding is that Thorn will for mechanically competent owners split the bike into two boxes, which already makes a huge saving, which a new Thorn owner in a hurry to ride his bike will probably want to investigate first.
But, if you're weighing every shekel, these palette-combining services may be just the ticket.
Andre Jute
box & wrapped bike on second page of
http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdf
-
Andre,
A fascinating account, and much valuable information on a delivery method of which I was totally unaware. Well worth my keeping in mind; thanks!
As OP and in my last post to this thread, I promised to do an update with timeline and costs, so...
As it happened though I inquired directly, no other shipping method from Thorn was available to me at time of purchase last August, neither a two-box shipment or any less-expensive, non-tracked rate. In direct answer to my query, there was one available shipping method -- Tuffnells/TNT (who according to the stamps and bills of lading on the box, handed off to FedEx in Texas, with final curbside delivery by UPS) -- and I was advised by Thorn that...Unfortunately Tuffnells do not provide tracking numbers for third parties such as yourself as technically we are their customer and not you!
I sweat bullets, and arranged for other people to be here at all times over the course of a week so it would not be missed. As it happened, the bike arrived with a wealth of assembly problems that rendered it unridable for sometime after arrival, but that was unrelated to the shipping method or carrier handling.
The good news was the duties bill came to a bit less than I had expected from a careful reading of the US tariff schedule (there is a premium charged for bikes with this wheel size), and was correctly based on the net cost of the bike alone and not the total including shipping, as is sometimes the case. There is an appeals process to US Customs to contest excess duties levied, but it is lengthy and convoluted and takes up to 90 days for a determination after the duties have been paid by the recipient. No one from the shipper or US Customs phoned me or told me when to expect delivery, and I was never asked for my SSN.
Before delving into prices and costs, it is useful for US buyers to remember: Costs are determined by Thorn's published rates at the time of purchase, by the options selected for a particular build, and by the prevailing exchange rate at the time. They are further affected by shipping rates and associated costs (direct and as a function of exchange rate), by individual customs duties levied (based on cost of the bike and whether they are levied on the net cost of the bike or overall purchase price including shipping), and by the foreign transaction fees/conversion rate of the credit card used for payment at the time of purchase.
I paid for my bike in full when I placed my order, to lock-in the price against fluctuations in the exchange rate (the US congress was deadlocked over a budget-funding bill at the time and the dollar was falling against the pound). In retrospect, I would not do this again. With the options selected and the exchange rate at the time, my Sherpa and shipping totaled USD$2,610.83. Of that, shipping accounted for USD$627 at the exchange rate in effect then. The foreign transaction fee added USD$78.32. The Tuffnells Customs Duty Invoice totaled USD$139.73, including a USD$15 handling service fee for TNT to clear and confirm the shipment with US Customs and another USD$15 whose code I cannot determine. So, for those who are curious, it cost USD$845.05 beyond the base price of the bike to get it to my front door. Total for everything, Sherpa delivered and with all debts settled was USD$2828.88.
The main thing I am wondering from all of you is if anyone else was asked to pay the duty taxes up front before the package was released?
No, I was not. Christine, in regard to timing...
- I scanned and sent my order form 25 July.
- I confirmed the quote and paid for the bike in full 2 August, starting the order/build process.
- I received email notice it was finished 7 September.
- It was dispatched 9 September.
- It arrived 23 September via UPS curbside delivery (standard brown truck).
- The TNT Customs Duty Invoice was made out 24 September, due 24 October.
- The TNT Customs Duty Invoice arrived by post 4 October.
- I paid the TNT Customs Duty Invoice online at tntbillpay.com 10 October.
In talking and corresponding with Robin late last September, he told me Thorn would like to reduce their overseas shipping costs, had not found a less expensive carrier for overseas shipment, and was not particularly eager to greatly expand US sales. Thorn already pay a special extra charge to export to the Americas; if business in that market grew to more than a bare minimum of total turnover, the increase in charges would cause them to reconsider sales to this market. The US market is a particularly litigious one, resulting in increased costs for overseas firms to conduct business stateside. This is not the first time I have heard this from offshore firms pondering the advisability and ultimate profitability of increased sales here. Yes, other bicycle firms have negotiated better US shipping rates on their frames and complete bikes, but their situations appear different. This is often seen in large US firms with enormous sales volume like Nashbar and Performance Bikes negotiating unusually low shipping rates with major carriers. For example, I once purchased a Brooks saddle from Nashbar and it cost USD$5.95 to ship to me; the best price available for returning it when it proved defective came to USD$16.95. It is true for large UK firms like Wiggle, as well, judging by their posted shipping rates to the US at the time I purchased my Sherpa.
I'm sorry you had to experience a different angst (or any!). JimK had kindly clued me in on what I might expect, and when it didn't come to pass, I was a bit apprehensive, worrying another bill might arrive. It turned out well in the end, and we each got our beloved bikes -- yay! It is fair to say a US buyer has to be motivated to buy a Thorn over other bicycles available domestically. It requires extra work and cost, but for me and my own needs, a suitable substitute was unavailable among the offerings available stateside; Thorn was my choice and I am happy with the end result in my Sherpa. I do believe by sharing our experiences in this thread, we can ease the way for future US buyers by giving them a range of outcomes to expect. That certainly would have helped me, and was what I was seeking when I started this topic. At the time, JimK was the only American to answer my questions regarding US purchase of an entire bike and I remain grateful for his efforts; thanks again, Jim!
Best,
Dan.
-
The actual shipping that Dan quotes, USD627 is pretty much the equivalent of shipping a touring or city bike from Europe to Ireland, maybe a little less to the UK, by the standard couriers. By the method I described above it is about Euro 225n which comes to about USD300. I think the cost has less to do with distance than the number of times the box has to be handled. -- AJ