Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Rohloff Internal Hub Gears => Topic started by: expr on December 30, 2010, 06:53:03 PM
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Just noticed this on ebay and thought it may be of use to some of you!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROHLOFF-speedhub-60ml-oil-service-kit-syringe-available-/120662029410?pt=UK_SportGoods_CyclAcces_RL&hash=item1c18047462
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I bought some a month or so ago from him. Quick delivery, seems a good service, well packaged.
Got enough for 2 years worth of changes in one go!!
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does the 3000 mile oil change intervals matter or could it be left a bit longer
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Is this its first service or an interval, if its the first one I would be tempted to do it now rather than later. The first service is quite important in that it serves as a flush out if any contaminants are present or fragments from the running in period.
If its an interval oil change you can more than likely get away with some extra miles without any trouble.
Dave.
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7th oil chang are we talking a few hundre or a few thousand
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I thought I'd done an interval change at 15,000 but when I got round to doing the next one at 21,000 I realised I hadn't, so that was 11,000km between oil changes, there was plenty of oil left when I drained it and it didn't seem to have done it any harm.
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why is it that when i change the oil at 3000 mls after putting in the flushing oil i do not seem to get any more than the flushing oil out where does the lubericating oil go its not on the garage floor or workshop floor so where does it go
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On your 1st oil change then you wont get out much Volume than that of the flush oil going in (note the stuff coming out will be a mix of flush an real oil)
Why? - Because about 15ml of oil is left adhering to the internal surfaces.
If you get almost nothing back out then you may have an air lock. Inject air into the hub with the syringe and then draw the oil back out - again with the syringe.
StuTho
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I seem to remember reading somewhere that even if your mileage is low, you should still change the oil each year - as the oil gradually absorbs moisture - is that right? Seem an expensive thing to do, but not compared with the cost of the hub or economies over other gear systems.
Lewis
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I seem to remember reading somewhere that even if your mileage is low, you should still change the oil each year - as the oil gradually absorbs moisture - is that right?
Yep ;)
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I seem to remember reading somewhere that even if your mileage is low, you should still change the oil each year - as the oil gradually absorbs moisture - is that right? Seem an expensive thing to do, but not compared with the cost of the hub or economies over other gear systems.
Lewis
It's the same with car engines; it needs to be at X miles OR 12 months, whichever is sooner.
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I seem to remember reading somewhere that even if your mileage is low, you should still change the oil each year - as the oil gradually absorbs moisture - is that right? Seem an expensive thing to do, but not compared with the cost of the hub or economies over other gear systems.
Lewis
What, atmospheric moisture? What if the bike lives in a warm house?
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There is MORE moisture (g/litre) in most houses than there is in the atmosphere. However the relative humidity may be less dependent on temperature
(This is why you normally get condensation on the inside of the windows)
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Stuart you are quite right, and I can only reiterate your comments. I wasn't aware however that the oil was hygroscopic, but do seem to remember reading something about it at some point.
Again the point made regarding amount of miles or length of time is to instill in us all the importance of regular maintenance, however my suggestion to slightly overlook this in gillyberts post was maybe a tad wrong although I'm sure it was received in the manner it was aimed at. Assuming that the oil change would take place sooner rather than later!
Temperature will have some affect on the amount of oil that can be extracted out as this will affect the viscosity of it and its ability to remain as a tacky substance that remains on the internal surfaces or a runny liquid that drains freely from the hub.
In reality the hub would never really "run out" of oil as the required amount allways remains in the hub anyway, and for those people who are certain that the correct amount went in but failed to remove it in the draining procedure then a few things could affect it as suggested, along with the possability of a small leak that doesn't really show itself just down to oil migration. There are points on the hub that WILL allow oil to migrate from that have no oil seals but really solely on an interference fit with no seal etc and has at some point been the topic of conversation before regarding the hub, although this shouldn't be a cause for concern, its just the nature of the beast.
The slightly over rated term that the hub sits in a "bath" of oil comes to be realised when its more of a small spill really! I think it just sends a placebo picture to the mind of all those gears enjoying a deep soothing and relaxing soak in all seasons when in reality its nothing more than a small drip. However without wanting to cause dismay and lucid thoughts of dried up gears as long as there is 15ml in the hub the gears are ecstatic with lubrication.
Dave.
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Hygroscopic in the sense that the oil will hold onto any moisture that condenses inside the hub.
However I don't think that the oil will draw gaseous H20 out of the atmosphere. (I may be wrong on this!)
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The slightly over rated term that the hub sits in a "bath" of oil comes to be realised when its more of a small spill really!
Dave: I think the phrase you're looking for is "a permanent film of oil on the gears". Apparently that's about 12ml, and semi-publicly Rohloff says 15ml, and supplies 25ml just to make sure. I don't think it worth trying to save less than a tenner by trying to make a refill kit go twice, especially not on such an expensive piece of kit.
I had a small spill under my gearbox at one stage, not too long after an oilchange, described in another thread here, and eventually by draining and refilling the gearbox with the same oil that came out, determined that there was still around 10ml of free oil in the gearbox. I've since stopped worrying about whether there is oil in my Rohloff.
Stuart: I don't know if oil is hygroscopic, but condensation, when you bring a cold bike into a warm house or garage, is a mechanism for leeching water from air.
Rohloff calls the oil loss through the interference fit joints "misting" and I've seen it in the summer as a thin layer of oil near the joints, more so on the non-drive side for some reason. The manual, or a support document, does warn against overfilling.
André Jute
What I do when I can't ride my bike:
http://coolmainpress.com/iditarod1.html
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Stuart: I don't know if oil is hygroscopic, but condensation, when you bring a cold bike into a warm house or garage, is a mechanism for leeching water from air.
Totally agree - that is what I was trying to say!
Stutho
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Jeez. So not only do we have to worry about putting priceless Rohloff Unicorn Horn Oil into the hub only, but the bloody stuff is hoovering-up moisture from the air everytime I boil a kettle or take a shower. :o
I'd have thought this would mean the volume of liquid sucked out every year would far exceed the amount squirted in. ;D
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wheezy wow boy,
don't worry its not as bad as it reads. The oil is definitely not hygroscopic, I've checked, and water ingress will only take place if the bike is power washed at the seals area or the bike is subjected to lots of water with defective seals etc etc.
As Stuart has pointed out also, condensation can be a contributing factor although this would only create a minimal amount "if any" considering the small amount of air that is in the hub anyway.
Hobbes, yes your descriptive words are better than mine, misting of oil is the term I was looking for and describes the oil loss better, along with permanent oil film over the gears.
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wheezy wow boy,
It's OK, everybody. I've had my medication, and the palpitations are subsiding. I'm just a Speedhub user on the edge.
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It's OK, everybody. I've had my medication, and the palpitations are subsiding. I'm just a Speedhub user on the edge.
At the replacement price you should bloody-well be "on edge"!
LOL!
Actually, that's one of the things this board is good for. I remember how apprehensive (that's putting it mildly!) I was when I found a drip under my Speedhub. But the guys here soon calmed me down and suggested a procedure for checking that there was indeed oil in the hub.
André Jute
What I do when I can't ride my bike:
http://coolmainpress.com/iditarod1.html
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The guy selling this oil recommends not bothering with the fill-tube. I don't have one, and my first change is due.
Anybody have any strong opinions on this one?
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Hi wheezy,
I do my oil change now through the sprocket oil seal. Simply take off the sprocket and put the cleaner oil in and refit the sprocket go for a ride etc and take the sprocket back off and empty it out, or leave on its side for a while over a container etc, then add oil and refit sprocket.
Dave.
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The guy selling this oil recommends not bothering with the fill-tube. I don't have one, and my first change is due.
Anybody have any strong opinions on this one?
I wouldn't say I have strong opinions about it.....but....I'm assumnimng you mean the syringe and tube combination?
If this is what you are referring to, then I kind of like the idea. You can manage the oil better through the tube and syringe, fewer spills, and also it lets you draw off a little pressure once you've filled the hub up (although I guess this wouldn't be an issue if you hadn't used the pressure of the syringe!).
I'd imagine you could get very messy without a tube, unless you had the right oil catching kit at the ready?
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Hi wheezy,
I do my oil change now through the sprocket oil seal. Simply take off the sprocket and put the cleaner oil in and refit the sprocket go for a ride etc and take the sprocket back off and empty it out, or leave on its side for a while over a container etc, then add oil and refit sprocket.
Dave.
Crikey, Dave. You do like to get in amongst it, don't you? I have a feeling that removing my sprocket may be an adventure too far compared with shopping for a plastic tube. I know I'll have to get it off someday (or someone will), but whips, vices, bleeding knuckles? I may put that off for a bit. :-\
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I wouldn't say I have strong opinions about it.....but....I'm assumnimng you mean the syringe and tube combination?
If this is what you are referring to, then I kind of like the idea. You can manage the oil better through the tube and syringe, fewer spills, and also it lets you draw off a little pressure once you've filled the hub up (although I guess this wouldn't be an issue if you hadn't used the pressure of the syringe!).
I'd imagine you could get very messy without a tube, unless you had the right oil catching kit at the ready?
I think the guy means he just uses the syringe without the tube. He caught the oil in a rag, I think. As you say, I suppose you wouldn't be able to "pull" and "push" to release any trapped oil, that way? :-\
Thanks for the replies!
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I think the guy means he just uses the syringe without the tube. He caught the oil in a rag, I think. As you say, I suppose you wouldn't be able to "pull" and "push" to release any trapped oil, that way? :-\
Thanks for the replies!
Yes, you push the plunger of the syringe right in, then use its suction effect to suck out the dirty oil. Not really sure how you'd do it otherwise, as it would take days to run out under the force of gravity, I would have thought!
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shopping for a plastic tube
Try your local vet. You can probably buy a whole assembly of graduated syringe and tube.
The official Rohloff refill kit has a tube with a thread to screw onto the hub. Theoretically it is spill-proof. It is also reusable, so you need to buy it only once.
All these efforts to save money on the oil change might come to naught if you consider a couple of other facts:
-- every time you change the oil, you need a new threaded plug; comes with loctite
-- otherwise you must buy loctite; very expensive, likely to dry out before next year
-- postage for a plug that costs a couple of quid is the same as for a full refill kit
-- you can buy refill kits on the internet quite reasonably
-- if you plan smart, you will order your refill kit (or several) with other routine parts to save the postage
Hobbes
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I have the syringe, just missing the tube and the little adaptor. Can't imagine what the vets would be using the threaded adaptor for? And from personal experience, the vets is nowhere to go to save money!
Good points Hobbes, Although I do feel over £5 for a six inches of plastic tube is probably over the top. I imagine that's Rohloff pricing rather than SJS being greedy.
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I imagine that's Rohloff pricing rather than SJS being greedy.
Not so sure about that, you can get the tube in Germany (http://www.bike-components.de/advanced_search_result.php/keywords/rohloff/limit/40/page/4) for about £3.50, and the full oil change kit for £13 against SJSC's price of £25!
Postage costs from some of the German shops can reduce the saving though.
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I do my oil change now through the sprocket oil seal...
handy tip?!..& after when i have tea, if i can't find a knife and fork i'll scoop the food
into my anus and do a handstand for 5 minutes - that'll do the same job i reckon.....!!
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handy tip?!..& after when i have tea, if i can't find a knife and fork i'll scoop the food
into my anus and do a handstand for 5 minutes - that'll do the same job i reckon.....!!
Could it be that you are deliberately misunderstanding the workings of the human digestive system for comic effect?
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handy tip?!..& after when i have tea, if i can't find a knife and fork i'll scoop the food
into my anus and do a handstand for 5 minutes - that'll do the same job i reckon.....!!
Your point is what exactly!
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Well that analogy is of no practical use to those of us unable to do a handstand.
The plastic tube: try B&Q or old fashioned ironmonger or car parts shop or a nurse or...
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....or a colonic irrigationist.