Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: MikeD on April 30, 2010, 12:14:53 PM
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Hi
I am busy sorting out the spec for my dram tour bike..... have a quick look at what is listed below and give some feedback or suggestions.
Nomad MK 2 Complete bike. Size 540L - I am only 175cm tall with a standover of 80cm - short legs ;-D and use size 42 shoes
Handlebars - Thorn Mk2 comfort bar.
Ergon GC2-L Bar ends. Hope this will give at least one other hand position.
Wheels - Andra 30 CSS black rim.
Tyres - Panaracer Pasela Tourguard 1.75”folding. (Fitted)
Brakes - Shimano XTR V brakes and levers.
Crank - 165mm Thorn conventional square taper chainset. Again for my short legs.
Bottom bracket - Royce Titanium sealed BB.
Chain - Sram PC890
Mudguards - SKS P55. These are a little big for the 1.75 tyres, but that just gives a bit more space for mud..... will be taking them off whilst using 2.25 tyres for loaded touring.
Seat post- Cane Creek 3G Thudbuster suspension seat post. I have recently had two back surgeries and want to get all the help in damping I can....
Saddle - Brooks B17 Special Mens Leather Saddle. Honey.
Pedals - Shimano PD A530 SPD
Carrier - Thorn Expedition carrier.
Carrier - Thorn Mk5 Lo-Loader.
Bottle cages - Profile Design Kage. X 3
Cat eye TL-LD 1100 10 LED Opticube rear light. X 2 - one on the seatpost and one on the rack-mount.
Thorn accessory bar 105mm extension. Mounting a bar bag here.
Schmidt dyno hub. Black
Front light - Supernova E3 Pro Anti-glare
Pump Topeak turbo morph mini track with pressure guage. where to mount this ?
Cateye CC-MC100W Wreless computer
Extra brake pads X 2
Rohloff oil change kit X 2
Rohloff Hub Cable easy set X 1
Schwalbe Marathon EX 2.25 folding tyre. X 2
Schwalbe Downhill Schrader valve tubes. X4
I am still un-decided on the S&S fittings, most of the tours will be in Scandinavia at the start, then Iceland and then Scotland and maybe France & Italy, so all easily reachable by trai or ferry from my home in Copenhagen. I know the S&S give a big advantage on flights, but at 400 pounds extra.....
Any thoughts or suggestions are very welcome
Thanks
Mike
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Can't really argue with that spec much as it's mostly higher end kit and quite similar to my Nomad Mk1!
Some minor points:
- Ergon also do a new GC3 with larger bar-ends
- Topeak Mini-Morph. Mine came with an inline mount that required it's own bottle cage bosses. Don't know whether there's a "beside the bottle cage" accessory? I also have a Alumimium Lezyne pump which does have a convenient side mount bracket.
- Sometimes powerful LED dyno lights interfere with some wireless computers...
- You won't need the Rohloff Hub Cable Easy Set (Rohloff 8573). That's for the internal gear mech version only. Nomad's have the EX Box. This uses standard gear cables for replacement (8265)
- You can probably just get one Rohloff Full Oil change kit (8410) for the syringe and replacement grub screw and then just buy the Oil refill set (8411) or find somebody to split the 1 litre oil cans with...
- You'll need the Rohloff sprocket removal tool at some point (8501)
- The Thorn For Rohloff Cast End 2 x M5 to 1 x M6 Stainless Dropout Adaptors (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Thorn-Thorn-For-Rohloff-Cast-End-2-x-M5-to-1-x-M6-Stainless-Dropout-Adaptors-11703.htm) (may or may not come as standard with your rear rack) could be useful for speading a heavy rack load across both M5 rack mounting points on the rear dropout
Shaun
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Hi Shaun,
thanks for the feedback & info. I will check with thorn about the cast ends before ordering. Looks like you have had some great rides on your Nomad, and the upcoming tour sounds great, I worked outside Toronto years ago for a few months, and Vancouver is one of my all time favorites cities ;-D Have a great tour.....
Thanks
Mike
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Mike,
looks like a great bike.
I have the same Schmidt/Supernova combination which I just leave on whilst riding, it often gets commented on during the day so it is effective and great in the dark. I also have the Supernova rear dynamo light, rack mounted with a couple of Stagonset stainless P-clips to the rearmost rack bar (in place of the rear light plate), recommended in place of one of the LD1100s.
Adding a small battery front light will give you a complete set dynamo/battery front/rear for all occasions.
Make sure you get the Supernova gold connectors and a bar mounted front light so that you can remove it, otherwise at £200 or so some light fingered rat will steal it when you leave your bike unattended.
If you are mounting a bar bag then you have to fit it below the bar mounted light, extension bar at the bottom of any spacer stack, or put the light on a permanent fork crown fitting and raise the bar bag a bit.
The Supernova is the second best dynamo LED for lack of interference with wireless computers and I run mine with the light bar mounted to one side of the stem and a Cateye V-3 Triple Wireless to the other side of the stem. I had a Cateye CC-MC100W, although it worked alongside the Supernova it did not get on well with the rain in the UK.
Pump, I mount a similar pump in a pannier, it is small enough.
I added mudflaps to my mudguards, front one useful if riding in wet/muddy conditions to keep the drivetrain cleaner, rear one if riding in company.
I added a small B&M Star mirror which I find useful riding in traffic.
A lock may be worth adding to the list...
I opted for the S&S couplings and although used infrequently they are useful, even for just quickly splitting the bike to go in the back of a car.
If you get them then you have to allow for any rear light cables to be splittable (more gold connectors).
Julian.
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Schmidt dyno hub. Black
Front light - Supernova E3 Pro Anti-glare
I am still un-decided on the S&S fittings, most of the tours will be in Scandinavia at the start, then Iceland and then Scotland and maybe France & Italy, so all easily reachable by trai or ferry from my home in Copenhagen. I know the S&S give a big advantage on flights, but at 400 pounds extra.....
That Supernova is rather expensive! Unless your Nomad is also doing winter commuting (?) may be it's overkill on a touring bike that you won't probably do much, if any, night riding on. I've got a B&M IQ Cyo that is pretty good and very bright and can be had for £60 direct from Germany. (£80 from SJSC).
If the Supernova and Schmidt is *just* for touring, you could get a cheap battery light for emergency use and spend the £400 on something else (or S&S couplings!!).
Shaun
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Hi Shaun,
I live in Copenhagen and plan on using the bike for adventure touring, but also quick weekend trips during the whole year. By jumping on a train in Copenhagen at 1600 on a friday afternoon after work, I can be in in southern Sweden very quickly for a great weekend tour. Most of the areas that I will be touring on these trips have no street lighting, and many, many kms of gravel tracks, so I see the Supernova as a must for this type of touring. You dont need to go much further north to have the sun coming up at around 0930 and going down again at around 1500.... so good lighting really is a must.
Still un-decided about the S&S couplings, I might just bight the bullet and hope I get to use them years from now. I know my first big planned trips are to Northern Norway & Sweden (& maybe Lofoten), and Iceland. all easily doable by ferry and train.
Should be placing my order on Tuesday all being well.
Thanks for the input, nice to get some fesh ideas and viewpoints
all the best
Mike
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Well I orderd the dream machine yesterday.
Regarding lighting I decided to go with the Edelux on the front to be supplemented later with an Ixon IQ that can be recharged via the E-Werk. Rear lighting will be two Cateye TL-LD1100 10 LED units, one on the rear carrier mount, the other high-up on the seatpost.
Decided against the S&S couplings, that will just about pay for a tour to Iceland.....
just as an afterthought I am considering adding a chainguard:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Thorn-Thorn-High-Quality-Alloy-Chainguard-for-110-PCD-Rings-up-to-38T--Black-11144.htm (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Thorn-Thorn-High-Quality-Alloy-Chainguard-for-110-PCD-Rings-up-to-38T--Black-11144.htm)
Anyone used one of these ? seems like a good idea on a touring / commuting bike.
I am also going to fit a B&M E-Werk for charging batteries on longer tours, anyone used or installed one of these ?:
https://www.starbike.com/php/product_info.php?lang=en&pid=12413 (https://www.starbike.com/php/product_info.php?lang=en&pid=12413)
Really looking forward to getting the bike, the next 5 weeks will go very, very slowly.....
Thanks again for all of the input, it really has helped & made me think long and hard about this bike build. Lisa at Thorn has also been great with feedback and ideas.
Mike
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Regarding the chain guard. I have one fitted to my MK1 Nomad. More for keeping my trousers clean on my daily commute and to protect the chainring in the rough stuff.
Excuse the mess in the picture :) It was the last day of a tour and the bike got a good clean the following day.
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- The Thorn For Rohloff Cast End 2 x M5 to 1 x M6 Stainless Dropout Adaptors (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Thorn-Thorn-For-Rohloff-Cast-End-2-x-M5-to-1-x-M6-Stainless-Dropout-Adaptors-11703.htm) (may or may not come as standard with your rear rack) could be useful for speading a heavy rack load across both M5 rack mounting points on the rear dropout
Shaun
Now I am a little confused, nothing new there....... I spoke about this with Lisa at Thorn, she said that with the nomad 6mm bolts are always used. Does that mean that the Thorn expedition rear carrier will be secured with one 6mm screw either side of the dropout, or what ??
Another descision to be made is which luggage system to go for, a huge can of worms I know...... Ortlieb for the simplicity. easy waterproofness and easy to add a little colour to the stealthy beast. I am also quite keen on the Carradice, I always pack my clothing & sleeping bag in small roll-top waterproof bags (I am a kayak instructor and have collected rather a lot of these for some reason !) so the waterproofness is not really an issue. I love the Carradice for its toughness and in that way matches the bike Nomad. The jury is still out, anyone else read this thread with some very good, but not often heard views on the ortliebs:
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/reviews/board/message/?o=RrzKj&thread_id=38352&v=2R&page=1&nested=0 (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/reviews/board/message/?o=RrzKj&thread_id=38352&v=2R&page=1&nested=0)
I can feel that it is going to be a tough waiting time to delivery of my new baby......
Thank
Mike
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Mike,
The Thorn dropouts each have two 5 or 6 mm threaded holes for the rack bolts etc.
If your bike has the larger 6mm dropout holes then the rack will be bolted on with one 6mm bolt each side at the dropout leaving one unused hole each side.
If your bike has the smaller 5mm dropout holes then you can use the gadget which bolts into the two 5mm holes and presents one 6mm hole for the stronger bolt rack fastening.
Alternatively you can drill and tap a 5mm hole to 6mm hole, I did this on my bike, there is plenty of metal in the dropouts.
If you have the Thorn rear rack and mudguards, the rear mudguard stays fasten to the rear rack legs not the dropouts.
My preference for panniers is for Carradice Super Cs, but all the major brands are very good.
Julian.
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If your bike has the smaller 5mm dropout holes then you can use the gadget which bolts into the two 5mm holes and presents one 6mm hole for the stronger bolt rack fastening.
The picture of this setup below may be helpful - look at the right side as well, which shows the two 5mm holes more clearly:
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Mike
It was my understanding that all Thorn Rohloff frames use the same rear dropouts (a cost thing, they're expensive apparently) and that these dropouts have two x 5mm bosses per side. Hence my comment about using the cast end adapters to spread the load for a heavily loaded Nomad. I know that Stu's Nomad Mk2 (http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=2391.0 (http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=2391.0)) had two x 5mm per side and that the cast dropouts were supplied with the build, because Stu and I talked about it offline. You can also see the cast end in one of his pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jalicat/4334347649/in/set-72157623240086269/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jalicat/4334347649/in/set-72157623240086269/)
Maybe this situation has changed very recently, I don't know?
As julk says, you can tap out the 5mm bosses (if your bike does come with them) to 6mm if you want. I wasn't brave enough, so I use the cast ends!
Shaun
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Hi Shaun,
I will call thorn next week to clarify the situation, it would be nice to have the 6mm on the dropout, otherwise I will ask them to either tap out to 6mm or fit with the adapter plate thingy. I will post again with the Thorn comments 7 solution
Mike
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It will be interestng to know the current position. I was mildly peeved when my Nomad (Mk1) arrived with M5 bosses, after reading the Nomad literature advertising oversized 6mm bosses. My Nomad arrived with the Thorn Exped. Rack affixed with one M5 bolt per side. I had to request the cast ends separately after delivery. I had a minor rant about it on my blog: Raven Nomad Rack Mounting Bosses (http://sbseven-shaun-canada-2010.blogspot.com/2010/02/raven-nomad-rack-mounting-points.html)!
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I have just got of the phone after a conversation with Lisa Parsons at Thorn, she assures me that all (including the rear dropout) mounting bosses on the Nomad are indeed 6mm and not 5mm. They are 5mm on the Raven tour & the Raven Sport. Hope this clarifies any doubts anyone has. Furthermore Lisa said that the bosses on the Nomad had always been 6mm........
;)Mike
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Thanks for the update, Mike.
Something's not quite right somewhere! As mentioned above, Stu's Nomad Mk2 came with the cast end adapters fitted. These wouldn't fit if the rear dropout bosses were 6mm. My 2009 Nomad Mk1 definitely has 5mm rear dropout bosses. Oh well...
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Regarding lighting I decided to go with the Edelux on the front to be supplemented later with an Ixon IQ that can be recharged via the E-Werk.
Mike
Nice spec.
I'd have another think about the lights, the Edelux and Ixon have very similar reflectors, they have the same beam pattern. The second light will not add much, you'll have the same pool of light, just brighter. That would have been a considerable benefit with halogens, but modern LEDs are so good it's a bit of a waste.
That's not to say running two lights isn't a good idea. they just need to be different enough to give benefit. An E3 with an Ixon would have been a good mix, an Edelux with something like the Hope One or another narrowish spot would offer the same.
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Well I have today received an email from Lisa at thorn with the following text:
Looking more closely into this I have found the that lower rear rack braze-on is 5mm. We use a drop out adaptor which is 6mm
this is after several requests for confirmation on the size of these braze-ons....
I have since spoken to Andy Blance, who was convinced that the solution offered using this adapter:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Thorn-Thorn-For-Rohloff-Cast-End-2-x-M5-to-1-x-M6-Stainless-Dropout-Adaptors-11703.htm (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Thorn-Thorn-For-Rohloff-Cast-End-2-x-M5-to-1-x-M6-Stainless-Dropout-Adaptors-11703.htm)
This entails using 1 6mm bolt either side of the thorn rack to secure it to the adapter, then securing this adapter to the braz-ons with 2 5mm bolts on each side. Andy pointed out, that the rack is now secured via 4 5mm bolts spread over 4 seperate fittings. Of course this is all very well, Andy, as he reminded me, has crossed the Andes 23 times and never had any problems.... he was either annoyed that I had dared to question his wisdom or beleived that I had no input that was worthy of hearing.
I am now in two minds as to what to do, Thorn do produce great bikes and if you want a Rohloff equipped touring bike the options are very few and far between.
Do I let the order go through, save some money and order a Raven Tour (This has the same mounting options anyway at a lower price...), I may talk to a few other builders, Roberts etc.
I must admit, after placing a deposit on a Bike costing very close to £3,500 including a few spare parts etc. I am a little suprised.
Any input is still welcome.....
Thanks
Mike
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Mike
I didn't want to say Lisa was wrong but I was reasonably sure of my position, having spoken to Thorn myself about this issue! I normally ask for Dave, who's their "technical query" guy and knows pretty much everything. He's also a good chap.
As discussed previously, although the bosses are 5mm on the dropouts and this IS an anomally for the Nomad spec., it isn't really an issue. It certainly shouldn't be a deal breaker, IMO. Have the cast adapters fitted (or tap out the bosses) and the rack mount is strong enough for any load you can manage to pedal! I'm certainly not worried about my rear rack load busting my 4 x 5mm bolts or bosses. Also note that most tourers have 5mm bosses anyway and you don't hear too many issues of bolts/bosses breaking. Cheap racks yes, bolts/bosses no.
Be aware that Mr. Blance is known for being, let's say "abrasive". You would not be the first, or the last, person to notice that! You mentioned Roberts, I believe they (he?) can come across the same way during the specification and ordering process. I've seen this mentioned on several forums too!
I think you were right when you said "Thorn do produce great bikes and if you want a Rohloff equipped touring bike the options are very few and far between". I think there are others worth considering such as: Santos, Koga Miyata and some other German / Dutch manufacturers that I can't name off hand. There's also Roberts (maybe other UK frame makers), as you mention, who have a fair bit of experience with Rohloffs. I thought Thorn had that extra edge, what I call "accessibility". I know I can ring them up and get immediate answers to queries. I know all the spares I could possibly want are in the warehouse behind the office and ready to ship. I know that they have a great reputation for sorting out problems (especially Rohloff problems) when you're on the other side of the world. To me, this is worth quite a lot in itself.
Regarding the Raven Tour v. Raven Nomad. The Tour is a pretty capable tourer in it's own right. Perhaps comparable with most other tourers from the companies mentioned above. I think you've got to "push the envelope a bit" to exceed the Tour's ability. A couple of differences between the two are the extra bit of robustness and the extra bit of luggage carrying capacity of the Nomad. One thing that swung it for me was the use of the Rohloff EX box on the Nomad. The Tour uses the internal gear change mechanism which is a bit more fiddly and takes a bit more effort to maintain. Note that the Tour and Nomad frames + forks are the same price, so there's no real price difference. It's all about the components used in the build. You could build up the identical bike with either frame for the same cost. Then the Nomad version would weigh about 500-700g more, I reckon. (Dave would be able to tell you, I'm sure!). The Nomad has the S&S couplings option of course. The Nomad also has the correct frame geometry to take 100mm suspension forks, which could extend it's considerable range that bit further. Whether any of these differences matter to you, I don't know. (I bought my Nomad for most of the "extras" mentioned above).
Hope that helps in some way.
Shaun
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Well, after all of the experience with Andy, I decided to think long and hard about what I wanted from the bike and looked around to see if anyone else could build a comparable bike. I have decided to continue with the Thorn build after a few emails from Robin Thorn and a telephone call from him, if I had done anything else it would have been out of spite and not a good decision for me......
I discussed the reason for the adapter with Robin, in his opinion it was the best solution, when asked about tapping out to 6mm he said that he would personally prefer the adapter, I got the distinct impression that he thought that there was not enough material to make this a better solution.
Regarding front lighting, I have decided to augment the edelux with a helmet mounted LED light that I can recharge via the E-Werk. So far the Hope Vision 1 LED is the best option for beam pattern and cost (Thanks PH), it will also be good for other activities other than on the bike. I do like the look of the Ay up V4 adventure as well, this is just a whole system and a great deal pricier.......
I have in the past few days talked at length with a local rider who rides lots of audax events, I may well be trying a couple myself over the summer if time allows. He also mentioned a ride in Norway called the great strength test, riding over lots and lots of big mountains for fun....... could be something to try !
Mike