Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: Bill C on April 09, 2010, 09:17:56 PM
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Hi all
great forum with some inspiring builds 8)
I'm Newbie to the forum and not yet an owner of a full Thorn Bike,
i have how ever bought a set of new Nomad fork's of off the bay of evil from sjs with the intention of banging them on a retro mtb but after getting them and seeing the quality i have decided that i want the whole bike ::) reading the posts on here was enough to convince me i NEED a decent frame and after checking out the competition (Surly lht and travellers check) have decided to go with a Thorn
but i don't fancy the expense of Rolhoff so it's a Sherpa but possibly a Ripio as well ( i have a fairly good spec donor mtb for the parts for that build but with mount tundra forks)
i have started buying all the kit to make my dream bike (Sherpa) come true but have a few questions
i really like the Nomad forks that i bought, i have also bought xt v brakes but have read that the front ones squeal like a tortured cat, would fitting Nomad forks with the brakes behind the forks stop this (effectively having two rear brakes) and would fitting Nomad forks to a Sherpa frame be a good move ? i've checked the specs and they are very close
also i'd really like a frame that doesn't need me to have a foot of seat post sticking out of the frame as my other bikes do as to me it looks like they are to small for me
the other bikes in case your interested are my special baby a Klein Attitude XV and a donor Giant escape MO (upgraded) for the Ripio build that i want for weekends and a bit of rough stuff, i have been using the Klein and a bob yak but after being really ill on my last ride and needing to get home for the kids (single dad) found i could take the bike on the train but not bob >:( , so it's panniers until my son's are old enough to look after themselves or i will need to call out a mate to rescue me if ever i find my self in that position again
apart from the fork/frame question
i plan on using straight bars as i haven't ridden drops in years but i'd like the choice of swapping over if i fancy it,
so i'm looking at the 585l frame as looking at the chart the difference in frame size between one for drops and one for straights could be compensated for in my choice of handlebar stem (standard size 110mm)so 130mm for straight bars and 90mm for drops would pretty much cover the difference in top tube is this a sensible idea? or do i need to decide my priorities and get it right first time
i'm hoping to order the frame in the next week or two along with a Surly nice front rack and the Thorn expedition rear rack and a few other bits and bobs
i would post the kit i have bought so far for the Sherpa build but don't want my first post to be to long winded so i'll leave that unless anyone is interested
regards Bill
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Hi Bill
I've got a Sherpa which I've had for just over a year and a half and have ben very pleased with it, it's the top spec flat bar model as they show in the brochure with a few extras. It's used most days as my commute bike and for cycle camping, carrying quite a bit of weight, so for starters I don't think you will go wrong with buying one!
As to the xt brake squeal I think that the problem is over stated, both my wifes bike and mine have the XT brakes and Rigida Grizzly CSS rims and we use the Swiss Stop Blue carbide specific pads, yes they sqeal like a pig for a while but when bedded in are fine, I don't know about the new Koolstop Carbide specific pads SJS now sell but I'm sticking to the Swisstop ones.
As to regards handlebars/sizing I'd make my decision over bars first and choose the correct size frame for that style of bar, (i used to ride drops but am converted to flats now, the Thorn anatomic ones) and as to the amount of seatpost, why don't you want a lot of seatpost showing? it's much easier to get off and on a loaded bike with a lower top tube especially if you plan to do rough stuff and seat tube length is pretty irelevant in frame sizing, its the length of the top tube that's critical. Seatposts these days are incredibly strong so there is no worry over that if that's your concern.
As to front racks , that's you choice but I can assure you that there is nothing wrong with the Thorn front low loader, I use it with ortleib classic front panniers and it's great.
John
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Hi John
thanks for the reply
i'm 99% certain i'll be using flat bars though i do keep looking at the drops but i have a trashed disk so leaning to low long term isn't an option (btw the duff back is what started me cycling again as i was overweight and the doctor was threatening me with a wheelchair, i lost nearly 7 stone from about 19 1/2 down to just over 12 1/2 but have put some back on over winter ::), since taking up cycling again i haven't had a proper bad back so i have no option but to keep pedalling lol )
i collect classic camp stoves as a hobby and have been selling of a few of my doubles to get the new bike using the option 4 expedition spec in the catalogue as a starting point
the seat tube length is just purely personal i'm not keen on loads of post showing but that's just me and not a very good reason to make a buying decision i'll admit
i've pretty much bought everything i need for the build but the frame and racks are still needed, i fancied the surly nice rack over the Thorn low riders as it means i'll have somewhere to carry a good thick sleeping mat, having a duff disk i need the extra thick ones at present i'm using a 2 kilo 5cm mat i don't mind the weight as it means i'm comfortable at night, but the bulk of it is a different matter same with my sleeping bag i use the USMC sleep system heavy and bulky but totally flexible and suits my needs the bags and mat will fill the top of both front and rear racks
i also want to use rear panniers on the front so that i have the option of taking/carrying extra kit and the Surly nice means i can keep them well off the deck
for the time being i'm limited with the time i get to go far as i mentioned in my previous post i'm a single dad so i just grab the opportunity to get out for a few days when i get the chance
but in another few years that will change and i'll be free to travel were ever i like, so i'm gradually getting the best kit i can so that i'm ready for the off
i want to go right around the coast of the uk then later over to Europe on the Eurovelo routes at least that is my intention
up until now my Klein and Bob have been fine but after being told that i can't take a trailer on the train it has stopped being so useful although my back is much better and as long as i keep riding i'm fine it is always in the back of my mind that it could pop again and i could be in serious trouble so the train/plane is a backup plan
sorry if i'm waffling but buying the bits for the bike was the easy part as they can be bunged on any frame, but the frame itself i want to get right first time as it's the main expense and i will hopefully be on it for a good while so it needs to be right
as for the Nomad forks on a Sherpa frame, i bought the forks off ebay and when they got here i was totally gob-smacked by the quality of them and it was the main reason i decided i want a Thorn bike, i haven't seen one in the flesh but the forks ooze quality and it was enough for me to make a decision, i just need a pep talk to make the final commitment hearing that the XT brakes should bed in is a good one thanks for that
i don't know if this will work but here are a couple of pics of the set up i want to replace
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hi there bill,
I beleive you are making a very fine choice in a bicycle for life! I can honestly say that the sherpa has the most awesome ride quality. Its very smooth on the flat, surprisingly quick, soaks up bumps beautifly and decends with a great feeling of control. I origanally bought my frame and then fitted it with my old mtb kit. I have recently fitted a full xt groupset and new wheels (see members gallery for pictures). The beauty of it being steel is that it will last a lifetime. I had considered saving for a rohloff raven tour or nomad but i felt that with the performance quality of shimano and some regular cleaning and maintenance i would be able to have a bike that will last and perform for years. I understand the long term cost saving with rohloff but I dont own a car so for me to have to spend a couple of hundred pounds every few years on chain rings, chain and cassette is almost unoticeable really in comparison to costs of a car and public transport. I also feel that with rohloff although there have been no reported failures of a hub there is always a chance there might be! The worst failures possible with a derailure system are all repairable at the roadside if you know what your doing and have the right tools/spares and as long as your prepared to clean and maintain the drivetrain theres no reason why you can't get about 10,000 miles out of a set of chain rings, a chain and a cassette with the cost of replacement perhaps being a couple of hundred. For any long tours these parts would be light and packable. A freehub is the most most crucial componant on a derailure system but this is replaceble and can be changed with a ten mill allen key and a cassette tool with cone spanners. The appeal of owning a beautifull handbuilt thorn rohloff exp is in my mind but unfortenately my bank account would never allow it! At some stage I might invest in an EXP frame with s and s couplings but im satisfied with my faithfull Sherpa for now. A world tour is my current goal having done landsend john o groats last year. Anyway, if your able to I would go for the full expedition build on the sherpa, you'll absolutely love it!!
Regards, Beef (aka john)
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hi bill hope your enjoying your new sherpa (that's if you got it ) ;)
it's a great all round bike pure mule as the man said solid on the road no matter what the load.
anyway just on the sleeping mat and sleeping bag.i have the exped 7 down bag light as a feather ;)packs small and super comfy honest.the s/bag is from alpkit pipedream 400 brilliant bag .
that's me best of luck on the new bike you wont regtet it.
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Hi Jags & Beef
thanks for your replies and interest, i haven't finished getting all the bit's together yet
i'm still waiting for my handlebars to get here from Holland and a stem from Ireland (and a few other bit's still to get),
when the handlebars get here i can check them for size and i might order a set of bar top interrupter levers for drop v brakes (i have only found two types compatible with v's and drops both in America so that might hold me up for another week or two)
i have had a rethink and have now changed my mind about the build ::) i have bought xt flat bar brake levers, xt style sjs thumbshifters and ergon grips but have now decided i want a drop bar tourer, i think it will be better for me in the long run ::)
so i need to get in contact with sjs to see if either i can get the bar end dura ace shifters, hopefully i can either get just the end adaptors or with any luck sjs might allow me to swap the thumbies for bar end shifters, luckily i haven't ordered the frame yet as i want to get the frame a surly nice front rack and the thorn rear rack in one order (but that can wait until i have everything here and ready to build), so if i ask to swap the gear levers at the same time i order the rest i should be in a better position
i have found a great leather worker and have had 3 honey saddlebags made in different sizes (one should fit between the drops on the handlebars) and another two in black for one of my other bikes the craftsmanship is top notch and at what i consider to be a great price
the build is dragging on a bit but i'd sooner take my time and have it the way i want as i have big plans for the bike in the future
i'm not sure of forum rules or etiquette otherwise i would post pictures of the saddle bags i have had made and a link to the seller as i'm pretty sure there would be some interest from other cyclists?
the Honey ones are a standard fit for the loops on the saddle but the seller is quiet happy to modify them to fit other saddles so i got him to make up a black one to fit my brooks conquest using the lower rear rail for a mounting point
on a plus note i am having a reproduction made in honey of my 1930's Primus cyclists stove outfit made that fits to the crossbar and i can't wait ;D , it might seem a bit sad but i really like my vintage stoves ::) and want to have a usable reproduction to take with me on my trips/days out, the original 1930's primus outfit i have is too old and rare to be used on a daily basis so it's for display
i'll keep you posted on how i am getting on and when she's finished i'll post some pics in the members gallery
thanks again for the interest and replies
atb Bill
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update
I just had a knock at the door and my handlebars are here 8) i bought Modolo Gran Fondo's 43cm size
i won't be ordering the interrupter levers as i don't think they will be of much benefit and they might get in the way of my big mitts :o
the honey bar bag fit's a dream and looks the part so i suppose i'd better order my brooks honey bar tape now as i'm certain i made the right choice (yes i know i risk over doing the leather but i like it lol, i'm fighting the honey mud flaps but it's a losing battle ::) )
the handlebars are swept back and up to give a more upright position than normal drops so it should give my back a rest if it starts to ache
just looking at the saddle and saddlebag and the handlebar and bag assembled is giving me a very positive feeling about the bike and i'm really starting to see it finished at long last and i can't wait,
i have a trip from Devon up to Newark on Trent planned in 4 weeks to the classic camp stove rally/meet and would really like to be riding the sherpa there as it should be a great chance to try her out for real and it's the first time i will have had more than a couple of days to myself since becoming a single dad so i'd like to make the most of it, two weeks with no kids, a hint of things to come when they are grown up and i'll be free at last ;D
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You said:- two weeks with no kids, a hint of things to come when they are grown up and i'll be free at last ;D
Hi
Boy have I got news for you!
That aside, I hope that you enjoy the Sherpa build. As you in theory only do it once, make the most of it by getting it just perfect.
Enjoy yourself,
About the first line of this message, I have a 19 almost 20 daughter who is as you say ,grown up' leaving me free. Its not quite so simple......have fun!
John.
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ah bill stick those photos up theres a good lad ;)
bill you might just be the lad to ask what is a really good gas stove ,i have the optimus crux brilliant quick stove but that problem with it the arms are to small for the pot,im looking for a stove thats not to pricy booils fairly quick and good support the pots.thanks...
btw why barend shifters why not TIAGRA 9 speed sti super smooth i love mine. ;)
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hi jags
i'm not much of a mechanic and when the sti's on the Klein go out of adjustment i find it a pain getting them right
my old road bike had i think 105 flight control sti's and i didn't get on with them so i thought stick with gears that can go in friction mode just to save the hassle
i have seen some thumbie adaptors in the states for the top of drop bars with a 26mm clamp size (same as my bars) so might go for those instead,
i intend on having the bars set up quiet high so that i'm on the drops most of the time, i thought set them up with the drops about the same height maybe a little lower than the bar ends on my other bike with flat bars, it would mean i'd have plenty of different upright positions ie on the hoods, top of the drops and on the flats hopefully that should sort out any back pain i might get
me give advice on gas stoves NEVER!
your talking to the wrong person here, i don't have a single gassie in my collection to me they are evil things that should be banished to hell for the demise of proper liquid fuelled stoves ;) (it's ok the rant is over and i feel better now ::) )
now if you want a petrol stove for easy availability of fuel anywhere in the world that will work at pretty much any altitude and in cold weather get an Optimus 8r or Svea 123r if it's just for you (both great little stoves and brass too!)
if you want a stove that will never let you down then get a trangia maybe with a Optimus Nova or gas adaptor if you feel the need or need to cook for more people
me i'll settle for my Radius 43 made in the late 30's early 40's and still burning like new and it uses paraffin like my little uco candle lamp with the paraffin insert
i'll shut up now about stoves as this is a bike forum and not my usual haunt, and i tend to bang on about stoves any chance i get ::)
you mentioned photo's did you mean of the Sherpa when it's finished which i will post when it's all ready or did you mean the bags i have had made?
atb Bill
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bill i can see you know your stoves thanks for the choices you gave me,my son is in the states (montana) at the moment i'll see if he can pick me one up fairly cheap.
the photo's i was talking about was the panniers but i would not mind seeing a few of the sherpa and your favourate stoves ;)
cheers
jags.
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hi again jags
well you asked for it so here go's , don't say i didn't warn you not to start me on stoves lol
the pics are of my Radius 43 when i bought it and after i had fettled it,
i gave it an electrolysis bath to remove all the paint and rust then treated it with phosphoric acid to neutralise any remaining rust
then a good few coats of Satin black high heat paint
if the pics show you'll see she ain't no slouch for a 70 to 80 year old
i hope i'm still about and still using her for her centenary ;) if not i have told my son's on no account should they sell her !
i'll take some pics of the saddlebags and tool bags tomorrow in daylight to do his work full justice as it's spot on for the money i paid but no panniers yet as i didn't have the neck to ask for them lol he pm'd me to say his hands were killing after the last lot lol
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only one pic showed up i'll try again
the other two stoves are an early optimus 8 (non r petrol) in the green case and an optimus 111 kero the larger of the three in the pics
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Hi Bill,
Some nice stove pics. I used to have a petrol version of the Optimus in the above top pic(far right).
Sold it to buy a Svea 123 petrol, which I still have, somewhere.
Remember giving the brass a good polish before and after each camping trip. Happy Days. :)
Back on topic, be sure to post some pics of the Sherpa when it's finished.
Mike
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thanks for that bill man that's one nifty looking stove obviously there's no danger of it exploding the flames seem very near that tank. >:(you done a great job on restoring it.
i had a look at the optimus svea looks good but a wee bit expensive for me at the moment.
HEY MIKE i'll buy yours seen as your not useing it. ;D
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Hi Bill,
Some nice stove pics. I used to have a petrol version of the Optimus in the above top pic(far right).
Sold it to buy a Svea 123 petrol, which I still have, somewhere.
Remember giving the brass a good polish before and after each camping trip. Happy Days. :)
Back on topic, be sure to post some pics of the Sherpa when it's finished.
Mike
mike will you make watlington in july. ;)
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thanks for that bill man that's one nifty looking stove obviously there's no danger of it exploding the flames seem very near that tank. >:(you done a great job on restoring it.
i had a look at the optimus svea looks good but a wee bit expensive for me at the moment.
HEY MIKE i'll buy yours seen as your not useing it. ;D
hi jags
no chance of her exploding she is a paraffin burner so safe as houses or should that be tents?
there is a heat shield but i didn't fit it as i was taking the pics for the stove forum i am a member of
if your seriously after a 123r i have a few ::) , i dare say i could spare one of them, i could probably even find you a globetrotter pan set and handle for it
being a newbie i'm a bit worried about posting things as i don't know what the forum rules are on such things, but if i haven't over stepped the mark pm me if it's of any interest to you, and if i have over stepped the mark i apologise
the globetrotter panset is on the right with a 123r inside but i prefer the one on the left it's a camping gaz twister pan set 2x750ml pans that can be used as a double boiler
the last pic shows them set up for use (the camping gaz pot set is in double boiler mode)
hi mikerr the petrol optimus 111 is a 111b i have a couple of them but i prefer the paraffin version, i used to have about 50 111's of different types but i have been gradually reducing them, so far i have sold twenty of my stove collection to get the sherpa :'( nearly there now and no regrets so far
atb Bill
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hi bill thanks again this is all great stuff ,i would be very interested in buying one with the pots the full monty ;D BUT not just yet im a bit tight with money at the moment work's not great over here in ireland .
can you give me an idea how much it would cost i would appreciate it.
thanks
jags.
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Hi Jags
if someone walked in my door and offered to swap the svea 123r and pan set for a pack of brooks honey bar tape i'd be up for it,
i have a bit of a reputation on the stove forum of being a spawny git when it comes to buying my stoves i never pay top whack and have bought most of my stoves at ridiculous prices, the Radius 43 in the pics i posted i picked up for £17.99 BIN lol the last one i saw sell on the bay went for just under £200 and it was rough compared to mine
the weird bit is i had no interest in stoves other than for camping so had a big double gas burner with grill
then i bought my Klein, once i had that i was too scared to leave it locked up even just to grab a quick cuppa so decided if i got a small stove i'd be able to have a brew when ever i fancied one and stay with the bike,
so i bought a coleman 442 used it for a few weeks decided i didn't like it so i tried a swedish arny trangia that was ok but to slow to boil, so the quest started to find the best liquid fuelled stove for cycling
somewhere along the line the bike took back stage to the stoves and i ended up with a couple of hundred stoves and went from 4 bikes down to one,
the wheel has turned full circle now and i'm lucky enough to have a load of stoves that i have had my fun with and if i sell some of them on ebay i can make enough to buy the Sherpa without having to worry about the cost to much,hence me wanting a Ripio too the stoves turned out to be the best investment i have ever made, but i have far to many ::)
i have another 4 years to amass another collection before the boys are old enough to be left to fend for themselves and the collection will be sold to fund a tour of a lifetime (well tour of my lifetime anyway)
btw if they can't be trusted to be left on there own then they are coming with me, but i don't think they will enjoy it much
i never sell my stoves to mates for profit if i want to make money ebay is the way to do it,
so you can have the stove for the honey bar tape as that is what the stove and pans cost me to get
you are the established member and don't know me from Adam so if you'd like it i could send it to you and if your happy with it paypal the money or send me some bar tape (if i haven't bought some by then),
being the forum newbie i feel the onus is on me to prove my honesty/trustworthiness so i'm cool with sending it for your approval if it isn't what you want/need/expected send it back and all it's cost you is the postage to see if it's suitable
btw i can't send today as i have to play father Christmas and pack and send out 5 stoves that i have sold this week, the rest went yesterday
before you decide i'll take some pics of her running so that you can see it isn't a pup,
it seems i have turned this thread into a stovie thread so i suppose it's a good job it's a thread i started or i'd be in trouble for going off topic lol
but there is no point in having a touring bike if you can't make yourself a brew and a meal so to me bikes stoves and camping gear all seem to be part and parcel of the same thing we all are aiming for "getting out there and having fun with our bikes"
let me know what you think and we can sort something out
atb Bill
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bill it would be a hassle for me to sus out honey tape ,but wait how about a barbag instead ;)
i bought a karimor barbag last year but only usud a dozen times .my daughter bought me an ortlieb barbag for christmas so the karimor was put into the back room ;D
it's a great little bag not waterproof btw but its in perfect condition has the fitting's black in colour,i think i paid around 30 euro for it,look well on that new sherpa ;)
what do you think .
oh listen your no way stepping out of line on this forum post all the photos you like .
cheers
jags.
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Hi Jags
really sorry about the delay in getting back to you
i'm not after another handlebar bag mate sorry as i have bought a shed load of leather bags this last week or so, well they were really good value
i now have a S/B in honey.black and brown also the tool bags that fit the handle bars in honey and black so my bikes will have a bag each ( gear tart alert ::) )
BUT if you want the stove then i'll send it over to you and you can sort me when you have more work on if you like, (no hurry no worry on it as it is just sitting here unused and i have plenty of others)
i have raised the cash to pay for the frame and most other bit's so i ain't to worried about the money,
it's been a struggle getting the cash sorted as i have bought a few more stoves along the way ::) lol but if it wasn't for my addiction/obsession then i couldn't have got this far on the build
i have phoned Thorn and mentioned that i bought the thumb shifters and am now going over to drops (and that they are unused) they said send them back
and they will sort me the bar end shifters yippee lol i thought i was going to have to splash out on another set of shifters
they seem like a nice bunch at SJS and customer service seems very good, i just wish they had a few more colours on offer as i'd be happy as a pig in ,,,, if i could have the tonka yellow the new Nomads come in 8)
hopefully the cash will be transferred from paypal to my paypal debit card tomorrow or Friday and i'll place the order straight away
they have the 585l in stock, so not much left to get now,
i'm after a new seat post as i'd like one with a decent bit of layback, so i have been in contact with a firm in Ireland that i bought my velo orange stem from and they are going to get back to me on a VO Gran Cru
also bought one of those locking headset spacers so that i can keep altering the bar height without any grief, i'll ride it with the steerer bare until i have the bars set right
sorry if i seem a bit gushy but the bike is now starting to be a reality instead of a pipe dream and a box of bits
btw i haven't forgotten the pics of the bags i just haven't had time yet, but the moment i do i'll upload the pics
atb Bill
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bill your a gent how could i not take an offer like that up thanks .tell me what size jersey do you take i have a nice bicycle line large in blue perfect nick i never wore it and i'll stick a nice ras hat in the pocket.pm me your address and i'll post it off as soon as i can . ;)
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hi Jags pm sent
btw the frame is ordered and i have tracked down a VO seat post in the UK so all systems are go for next week 8)
hopefully will be posting pics soon
atb Bill
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thank's a million for that bill your a gent ;)
pm sent.
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so where are you bill ;)
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where the hell this bill c go to mystery man,
there was me thinking i would be making tea on my new stove a well not to worry
stranger things happened at sea i suppose ;D ;D
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Hi Jags
really sorry for falling off the face of the planet mate, been up to my eyes in stuff
the stove HAS been posted i'll pm you the tracking number in a minute
the bikes built and being ridden fairly hard ;) what a beauty never thought for one minute that it would be this good
i'll get some pics taken and upload them asap
again really sorry for the disappearing act but it's not just on here , today was my first post on the stove forum in 3 months i think they thought i had gone awol for good lol
atb Bill
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good stuff bill glad your back look forward to trying out that stove cheers
jags ;)