Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => General Technical => Topic started by: jags on January 10, 2009, 01:38:57 PM
-
can i just ask ,is it worth fitting a kickstand to my sherpa.
i can see the benifit of keeping the bike upright all the time,especally when loaded.
but is it a lot of hassle to fit one ,witch one is best as in strong ,light easy to fit.
oh where to buy,has sjs got them thanks.
-
I've got an ESGE one which I bought in Holland (you can get them here which fits near the rear drop outs it works well and saves you having to find some where to prop the bike. very easy to fit and remove.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd29/bobsimpson1953/Glen%20kinglass%20090908/BridgeofOrchytoOban090908007.jpg)
-
Dear Jags,
For an alternative approach try: http://www.click-stand.com/
Yours, James
-
bob's your a gent,that sherpa get's better looking every time i see it.
bobs tell me is it heavy ,i dont want to add any more big weight to the rear wheel.mind you the only difference i can see in our set up is, i now have the carradice camper on mine and i have my akto in there along with the ground sheet (home made builders plastic which is a pain to fold up small) and tent poles and bike spares.
thank's again bob's.
-
jimmer i take a look at that ,im in ireland is it not going to cost me a small fortune to get it here .i bough a lightweight stool on line from the states and it cost me more for postage than it did for the stool.but i'll take a look anyway oh is it ant good .
-
The ESGE is not that heavy it is easy to put on and take off so I only use when I'm going on a trip. I've thought about the clikstand its very light but have to store and take it out when required.
Bob
-
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_173290_langId_-1_categoryId_165673
cheap and easy to get hold of
-
Some stands will invalidate your Thorn warranty.
-
I didn't know that bob? best I ask before I fit
-
Hi,
How's your Pletscher rear kickstand holding up?
I'd originally used a Hebie rear stand but this eventually gave out!
The Pletscher looks a stronger item, been casted compared to the plated Hebie.
I'd considered a centre stand, but read the rear stands are a better option overall?
Nigel
-
When i was ordering my bike Andy very emphatically said that any kick stand would invalidate the life time guarantee on the frame. I've ordered a Clic-Stand from the USA. www.click-stand.com/Home-Page.html (ftp://www.click-stand.com/Home-Page.html) OK there is postage but whats a life time guarantee worth?
-
I wonder if the Click-stand is considered in the same category (for warranty purposes) as a clamped-on-the-chainstay stand? Is the problem clamping/deforming pressure on the chainstay, or rust? Or is the threat to the bike's integrity based on a stand not supporting the bike, so that it falls over?
Anyway, CGOAB has some useful reviews of bikestands:
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/reviews/board/?o=1&board_id=3597&v=35
I've used the Click-stand & have been very pleased with it. (There is some after-market fettling to be done -- Danneaux is a good source on that, as on so many things.) Will continue to do so, as I'm not sure I'll have a full frame warranty anyway, having only the Raven frame & forks.
J.
-
I used a Pletscher for a few years with no damage (apart from scraping some of the paint), but have moved to a Clickstand. The Pletscher is good for instant deployment (just kick it down and that's it) while the Clickstand is a faff (take it out of the saddlebag, unfold it, apply the brake bands), but the reason for the change is that the bike will fall over when being loaded using the Pletscher and has not (yet) done so with the Clickstand.
The downside is that in daily use I now look for somewhere to lean the bike against as I can't be arsed to get the Clickstand out!
-
I wonder if the Click-stand is considered in the same category (for warranty purposes) as a clamped-on-the-chainstay stand? Is the problem clamping/deforming pressure on the chainstay, or rust? Or is the threat to the bike's integrity based on a stand not supporting the bike, so that it falls over?
Hi John!
Thorn actively discourage kickstands and endorse Click-Stands as an alternative, explained here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/FAQ/prop.pdf
Best,
Dan.
-
Hard to underSTAND when & why a STAND is not a STAND, ho ho ho...Gets hard to STAND the gaff, sometimes, eh? - J.
-
:D
Best,
Dan. (...who thought this rather punny)
-
.... good for instant deployment (just kick it down and that's it) while the Clickstand is a faff (take it out of the saddlebag, unfold it, apply the brake bands), but the reason for the change is that the bike will fall over when being loaded using the Pletscher and has not (yet) done so with the Clickstand.
The downside is that in daily use I now look for somewhere to lean the bike against as I can't be arsed to get the Clickstand out!
That has been pretty much my experience .... but I find the click stand is very much more stable than the Esge style kick-stand it replaced, particularly when the bike is loaded up. I use an old shackle lock bracket to keep my stand easily accessible which takes some of the hassle away.
Photo here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/steve_gale/9308162702/in/photostream/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/steve_gale/9308162702/in/photostream/)
sdg.
-
Thank you for the replies.
I've only purchased the frame and forks, so don't expect a warranty as described in Thorn warranty document.
The click-stand looks a good idea as having the weight held up above the mass, compared to it being centred on a point below the mass. Simple physics! Just seems a lot of hassle!
Also, all the side-stands have a max limit, which could well be exceeded when loaded up with water for an evening wild camping.
Might have to design-build something of my own ???
Must say though, the Pletscher looks a pretty sturdy bit of kit.
In hindsight now, I'm wondering if having the side-stand for a heavy loaded touring bike might have been why first, my rack attachment to the frame sheared off, then on the same side a spoke went ??? hmmm.... indeed!
Nigel
ps. Even these snap! http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/reviews/board/message/?nested=0&o=1&page=2&thread_id=38350&v=35
-
this is my home made version:
-
sorry , didn´t give a description of how i made it:
it´s made out of 2 bits of bamboo with black insulation tape wound around to partly stiffen it but also to make it the same colour as my Sherpa.
at the bottom it has a rubber foot made out of little bits of inner tube(very handy for so many things)
the 2 bits of bamboo connect with a plastic tube i found laying about in the garage.
the top part that goes under the top tube is made out of an old light bracket
also on the top i´ve use an old raw plug so the 2 bits go together and then i insert it into a sleeve made out of an old inner tube(again)
this then sits on my down tube with the "light bracket" sitting nicely on the BB and the main part in an old pump holder.
-
This is the first that I had heard that there is a warranty issue for a kickstand on my new Nomad frame.
-
Click Stands - simple, effective & cool !
(not sure what "cool" implies but most things are according to neighbour's children)
-
I have been using a Pletscher Multi-zoom kickstand for the past two and a half years on my Thorn Nomad. Before that I had a Greenfields alloy side-stand on my Giant Sedona..... since ~2003. There has never been any concerns from either of them - certainly nothing that I would consider a warranty issue. I did manage to break the Pletscher in Central Australia, but that was with a very heavy load and probably not loading the bike correctly. Soon after I bought a replacement stand - Pletscher again. To avoid overloading the stand do not pack panniers or push stuff hard into them when bags are on the rear rack. Pack the bags up off the bike, then fit to the rack (easy with Ortliebs).
I reckon Thorn are just covering themselves against 'grunts' who overtighten everything. When I bought the Greenfields from a LBS I was spun a different yarn. "Most people break these alloy stands after 12 months. You'll be back." That was 10 years ago and my son is still using that same stand on the same frame.
All loaded up on the Pletscher. It works extremely well with the bike fully loaded.
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/petesig26/Italia%20Tour%202013/980375_10151551118806107_328674757_o.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/petesig26/media/Italia%20Tour%202013/980375_10151551118806107_328674757_o.jpg.html)
Clickstands..... way too much fiddle-farting about IMHO. I'll be in the cafe sitting down with my coffee while you're still securing your brake straps :P
even simply, gently lay your bike down on the ground!
Does that not raise potential warranty issues for your Rohloff hub ?? Leaking the oil out and such?
-
Well I thought, give the Pletscher Multi Zoom Rear Kickstand a try. Just finished a recce ride for next weeks bike ride and the creeking from the rear stays on my otherwise silent belt bike was amazing. OK it's alloy frame and not a Thorn iron bike.
Should I be worried ?
-
For those considering a Clickstand but concerned about shipping, the top rate is $11 USD.
For most destinations outside North America, Tom is subsidizing the price, as his cost is around $14.
-
I have just ordered one of the Click Stands and yes the shipping is only $11. The cost of a 5 section max stand (for touring bikes) came out at £30.15 including shipping. If you bought a 4 section stand then it would only be £28.30. I bought a 5 section as the 4 section was getting a bit close to fitting inside my bar bag and I wanted to make sure it did. I know there is a bit of faffing around with these stands, but it will be so much easier than having to always find somewhere to lean the bike against and I have already found out that my Sherpa just never seems to want to stop moving even when I want it to be still when leaning against a wall. It will also help with the loading/unloading of panniers. Another item ticked off the list. ;D
-
I got a nice compliment on my Click-Stand from a passing German cyclist in the Danube Valley a couple of years ago. These count double, I reckon -- I've found Germans to be sparing in their praise of other people's technology.
Tucking the Click-stand into your h'bar bag makes it handy, and the "Bike Brake" bands work exceptionally well on drop bars. (Dave S in Vancouver says that Tom's regular items, the ones that come with the 'stand, work fine on his Nomad.)
Not everyone is sold on the 'stand: a recent thread on crazyguy split about 50-50.
I like mine 'cos it's a nice light burgundy colour, a bit deeper tint than, say, a dry French rosé...
-
Well I thought, give the Pletscher Multi Zoom Rear Kickstand a try. Just finished a recce ride for next weeks bike ride and the creeking from the rear stays on my otherwise silent belt bike was amazing. OK it's alloy frame and not a Thorn iron bike.
Should I be worried ?
Creaking? Is this while riding or when using the stand?
Creaking while riding just doesn't make sense - the stand should be stationary, unless riding over bumps when you may get a little vibration or rattle. If it creaks when you activate the stand I'd suggest that it may not be tight enough, but be wary of over-tightening too.
-
Another vote for Click-Stand here:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7037/13656375193_9607d1e9dc_c.jpg)
Click-Stand Foxton Bridge New Zealand
The brake bands are excellent too, even if not using the Click-Stand, i.e. when leaning the bike against a wall and not wanting it to roll forward. I got the 4 section and it fits into my handlebar bag, but I usually stash it under the same bungee that is also keeping my orange drink attached.
-
My votes definitely for a Click-stand and as said above the brake bands are useful even when parking the bike not using the stand
-
Creaking? Is this while riding or when using the stand?
Creaking while riding just doesn't make sense - the stand should be stationary, unless riding over bumps when you may get a little vibration or rattle. If it creaks when you activate the stand I'd suggest that it may not be tight enough, but be wary of over-tightening too.
Creaking whilst riding - do frames flex when on rough pathways ?
-
Poor man's kickstand/clickstand :
-
Light and reliable too ;D
-
Poor man's kickstand/clickstand
Y'know, Rual, when I saw that photo in your flickr show, I thought, "OMG! he's crashed!" Glad it was just an advert for a low-calorie kickstand...
-
Rualexander,
Great ''Poor man's kickstand/clickstand"
I studied your Flickr gallery over breakfast before heading out today. Wonderful series of photos - I was tempted to comment on lots and lots of them but thought I might annoy you with too many, but rest assured great album.
Did a nice little winter ride here in Wellington, NZ today:
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5491/14155602329_c559f1177d_b.jpg)
Wellington, NZ on a Winters Day - there is a saying that you can't beat Wellington on a good day, and I think they may be on to something.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nztony/14155602329/
Tony
-
I suspect that NZTony is in the pay of the NZ Tourist Board ? ::)
Beautiful photo of a Thorn and the sea and the mountains........
-
Energyman, very kind comments, thank you! I knew when I left home today I wanted to get this photo, or something very similar.
-
Creaking whilst riding - do frames flex when on rough pathways ?
Frames flex, but not too much and especially not enough to cause movement in the rear end of the rear triangle.
-
Thanks, from your comment eons ago it is much more convenient just to alight and kick the stand ! Especially when delivering newspapers & magazines !
-
Can anyone supply a link/info about 'small' kick stands for front pannier racks; to stabilize the front of the bike when fully loaded.
I met a cycle tourist years ago who was using one. Or did I imagine it?
-
Can anyone supply a link/info about 'small' kick stands for front pannier racks; to stabilize the front of the bike when fully loaded.
I met a cycle tourist years ago who was using one. Or did I imagine it?
No, you didn't imagine it. I'm sure there are more front stands, but the one I know is the Tubus one that fits several of their low riders (from memory, Tara, Duo, Nova and Ergo). I dunno how "small" this thing is; it's as long as necessary, plus some adjustment length which you might consider surplus avoirdupois, and probably quite a bit stronger than necessary to cover Tubus's backside and reputation. This is it at SJS http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tubus-front-kickstand-for-lowrider-with-adapter-plate-prod24478/ -- uh, duh, I see they have a list of what it fits, so I could have saved the typing.
-
Thanks, I had not looked for it in the rack accessories :)
-
My Thorn is not where I am at, so I can't tell you the make/model, but I have a side stand that attaches to the frame between the bottom bracket and the rear wheel. It appears to have one leg until you push down and that leg becomes two, so to speak, so you then have a sort of bipod stand.
I have a Click-stand for the M**lt*ns and it deploys very quickly once you have the knack.
English is my first language I'm afraid!
-
Another vote for Click-Stand here:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7037/13656375193_9607d1e9dc_c.jpg)
Click-Stand Foxton Bridge New Zealand
The brake bands are excellent too, even if not using the Click-Stand, i.e. when leaning the bike against a wall and not wanting it to roll forward. I got the 4 section and it fits into my handlebar bag, but I usually stash it under the same bungee that is also keeping my orange drink attached.
Hi Tony
I how that road :o its just down the road a few k's :D
Click-Stand is the best way to go..
I have two of them
Only thing is my "Tom" is just setting around for me to take cycle touring :)
I'm loving my adventure bike at this time and just riding and riding........
Kiwi Pete
-
Another one working for the NZ Tourist Board ?
-
I think they're on holiday in Holland or Norfolk -- looks pretty flat to me, & no sheep anywhere to be seen ...
-
<snip>
I reckon Thorn are just covering themselves against 'grunts' who overtighten everything.
<snip>
Clickstands..... way too much fiddle-farting about IMHO. I'll be in the cafe sitting down with my coffee while you're still securing your brake bands...
Hi Pete - I'm sure you're right about Thorn's concerns, but I've no doubt they're valid! :)
But I have to add my vote for the Clickstand. I can whip my stand out of my bar bag and set my bands (one is usually all that's needed) in about 10 seconds. If you're already having coffee, it's either cold or you've phoned ahead with your order! :D
I found the lackey bands supplied by Tom were great for the drops on my Trek, but they got in the way on my Nomad's comfort bars. So I just carry a little length of fine-hook Velcro tape rolled up on the bar. It takes about 3 seconds to whip it off and wrap it around the brake lever. I carry a spare but almost never set both brakes.
-
Not just us that have noticed the pitfalls of using clamp on stands, http://surlybikes.com/info_hole/spew/kickstands_on_long_haul_truckers
-
I must say I consider a bicycle designed for adults without a stand to be a sign of incompetence. I simply don't believe the designers who retrospectively foam at the mouth and try to make out that not supplying mounting points for a stand is matter of principle; they're just trying to bluster away their oversight: "Well for f*ck's sake." -- official Surly response; see http://surlybikes.com/info_hole/spew/kickstands_on_long_haul_truckers
Personally, I think of Andy Blance as a sort of minor god, but even he has two little toes of clay, and one of them is the lack of fittings on his bikes for a stand. The other is welding on an expensive steel bike where there should be lugs. Both arise from the same place as so much unwanted bicycle "heritage" creeping into design with deleterious effects, racing in the wretched Peugeot 10-speed era, whose influence seems ineradicable. There are now only two bikes on my shortlist every year at Christmas when I wonder about buying a new bike, and on the very short demerits list for Thorn the first two items are "Welded!" and "No Stand!" Those have been dealbreakers ever since I started keeping that list in 2002, when there were five bikes on it, welded bikes were still admissable, and "No Stand!" was the top deal breaker. I have zero intention of laying an expensive bike on the ground, and even less intention at my age of bending over inelegantly to pick up a loaded bike. Both are silly things to expect a customer to do. Carrying a separate stick in the luggage, and working with velcro ties (which will last how long before they lose their nap?), is a bodge Heath Robinson himself would reject out of hand.
This entire business of turning stands into the primary evil of touring bikes is one of the great duh-moments of bicycle design, and so widespread as to assume the dimensions of a mass-hysteria, which is why "for f*ck's sake" Surly and others overreact every time the subject is raised. Ask yourself how much it would cost, if you're having your own tubes drawn anyway, as Thorn brags of doing, to have extra-long butts for mounting two-leg standers drawn into the front end of chain stays? The answer is peanuts. This is about either not thinking of it, or reflexively, because of the hanging history of racing bike design, rejecting the few extra grammes, thus consigning cyclists to years of inconvenience for the sake of a few grammes.
It's plain guilt causing bicycle designers to get hot under the collar any time the subject of bicycle stands is raised.
-
In Yorkshire they say God built thousands of miles of drystone walls and countless brick outhouses to save us fitting stands. Those that do fit them are subject to divine retribution for their ungratefulness and have to carry the burden up all the hills. I once went a month on a motorcycle without any stands and that was only a minor inconvenience ::)
Andre you sound like you might defect to Rivendell if they fitted hub gears.
It's all mechanical Marmite to someone out there...
Don't stand when you can lean ( or summat!)
Ian
-
Don't stand when you can lean ( or summat!)
Ian
Absolutely nothing, not even electrification, divides cyclists as much as the common or garden bike stand! Dan had better hurry back before the bloodshed starts.
-
If you kids don't behave I'm turning the car around right now! I can see you in the rearview mirror.
All the best,
Dan (...who took a gamble that paid off and rode diagonally across a good part of Hungary today to end up well south of Budapest)
-
Well Sir I challenge you to a duel. Pletscher aluminium or klickstand? Choose your weapon.
Quick while Dan's not looking.
-
Well Sir I challenge you to a duel. Pletscher aluminium or klickstand? Choose your weapon.
Esge.
-
Not now Cato!
I only fight in Esperanto on sundays.
You standites are all doomed as the tentacles of consumerism will eventually trap you to with something like this http://www.bmw-motorrad.com/com/en/index.html?content=http://www.bmw-motorrad.com/com/en/technology_new/item_electrohydraulic_centre_stand.html¬rack=1
-
The Surly position on long haul truckers and kickstands has been around for about 4 or 5 years. I am not sure if they started having problems when they redesigned the frames or not, but I think that their warning on crushing chainstays came out about a year after the frame re-design, which leads me to suspect that the chainstays became a bit more fragile with the new design.
I bought my long haul trucker frame in fall 2004 which was their first year of production. At that time I suggested to Surly (by e-mail) that they move their spare spokes holder to the right chainstay instead of the left where they installed it because the spare spokes holder got in the way of mounting a kickstand at the rear dropout.
Surly responded:
"most frames traditionally had the spoke braze-ons on the right side
(driveside) of the frame. but we opted to put it on the left side, to avoid
having the chainslap ruin the paint on them. there are a bunch of dropout
mounted kickstands on the market, all have differnt profiles, so it's hard
to make sure they all work and keep the functionality of the spoke holders.
but thanks for the suggestion, if i ever get unburried, i'll go test some
out."
Thus, I installed the kickstand on the chainstays where Surly now says you can crush the chainstays. I think part of the problem is that kickstand manufacturers often used really big bolts. Big bolts require big wrenches. When you have a big wrench on a big bolt, you apply a lot of torque. I use blue locktite on my kickstand bolts and I am always careful to not tighten them too much, only enough for them to stay on and not shift position. But some people probably were not careful to only use just enough but not too much torque.
I really hate the kickstand in that position, especially if I have 60 pounds of camping gear on the bike, I prefer the kickstand mounted at the rear dropout.
Kickstand on my LHT is in the up position in the attached photo. The black stuff on the chainstays is inner tube rubber to protect the paint from the kickstand. You can also see the front but not the back part of the spare spoke holder in the photo.
-
On my Nomad I am quite happy with a single legged kickstand at the rear dropout. The brand of kickstand is Greenfield. It comes with plastic to wrap around the frame to protect the paint. I did not used their plastic on the seatstay, instead I put several wraps of electrical tape around it because the provided plastic did not stay in the right place.
I only tighten the bolts "enough" to keep it on and I use blue locktite on the bolts to prevent them from coming too loose. Since the kickstand initially deforms the plastic, it needs periodic tightening every couple weeks when first installed.
I have never used the click stand and I am not saying that there is anything wrong with it. I am just saying I prefer a frame mounted kickstand.
I have watched people try to get something out of an Ortlieb backroller when there was nothing nearby to lean their bike against and they did not have any form of stand. It was rather humorous to watch.
I would be nervous about the stress on a frame with a two legged kickstand that lifts one wheel off of the ground when the bike is loaded with panniers, thus I think the single legged stand is best - or for those that prefer the clickstand, using that.
-
I must say I consider a bicycle designed for adults without a stand to be a sign of incompetence. I simply don't believe the designers who retrospectively foam at the mouth and try to make out that not supplying mounting points for a stand is matter of principle; they're just trying to bluster away their oversight: "Well for f*ck's sake." -- official Surly response; see http://surlybikes.com/info_hole/spew/kickstands_on_long_haul_truckers
It's plain guilt causing bicycle designers to get hot under the collar any time the subject of bicycle stands is raised.
Displays of emotion can be unsettling for middle aged men, but the point seems sound. A 50kg bike is a hassle to manhandle.
-
Who started this Thread anyway ::)
-
Who started this Thread anyway ::)
I think 'twas me that poked the sleeping beast ;)
Jokes aside, Andre is right. Why it's even an issue in this age of advanced frame design is bewildering. You would think that bikes that are so purposely designed for all day use under heavy loads should be designed to accommodate convenience as well as reliability, and the extra weight would be negligible.
I've never ridden one, but a friend is about to start selling Tout Terrain in his LBS, and I can't wait to try out a Silk Road with integrated rear carrier, disc brakes (asymmetric forks) and standard kickstand (dropout-mounted). I'm keen to compare ride quality, etc. with my Nomad, as a gauge for appreciating the relative merits of the design choices made.
-
In Yorkshire they say God built thousands of miles of drystone walls and countless brick outhouses to save us fitting stands. Those that do fit them are subject to divine retribution for their ungratefulness and have to carry the burden up all the hills.
Out in these parts a kickstand comes in mighty handy ;)
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/petesig26/Outback%20Tour%202010/The%20Oodnadatta%20Track/DSCF4501_zps5c7f2c16.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/petesig26/media/Outback%20Tour%202010/The%20Oodnadatta%20Track/DSCF4501_zps5c7f2c16.jpg.html)
-
You would think that bikes that are so purposely designed for all day use under heavy loads should be designed to accommodate convenience as well as reliability, and the extra weight would be negligible.
I've never ridden one, but a friend is about to start selling Tout Terrain in his LBS, and I can't wait to try out a Silk Road with integrated rear carrier, disc brakes (asymmetric forks) and standard kickstand (dropout-mounted).
Tout Terrain with built-in stand mount. Excellent design.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3301/3635909481_2b6f910bce.jpg)
-
On my Nomad I am quite happy with a single legged kickstand at the rear dropout. The brand of kickstand is Greenfield. It comes with plastic to wrap around the frame to protect the paint. I did not used their plastic on the seatstay, instead I put several wraps of electrical tape around it because the provided plastic did not stay in the right place.
I only tighten the bolts "enough" to keep it on and I use blue locktite on the bolts to prevent them from coming too loose. Since the kickstand initially deforms the plastic, it needs periodic tightening every couple weeks when first installed.
Having looked at how the Greenfields works on your bike (I had one on my previous bike), it seems the frame reinforcing bar gets in the way of the Greenfields a bit. I would suggest now that the Pletscher Multi-zoom would give a better fit on the Thorn Nomad frame.
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/petesig26/Stray%20shots/P1000802_zpsab0d4c32.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/petesig26/media/Stray%20shots/P1000802_zpsab0d4c32.jpg.html)
-
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/petesig26/Outback%20Tour%202010/The%20Oodnadatta%20Track/DSCF4501_zps5c7f2c16.jpg)[/URL]
This awesome photograph represents everything that is most powerful about touring in Australia.
Yeah, yeah, it's a varied continent, very much so, but if you have to choose one image to represent even that variety, without blinking again I'd choose this one.
-
Couple of things about this photo. This is a place where a flagpole on a bike is the highest (non-living) feature! A place you bring the "sights to see" with you. And the bikes. We are in a Thorm forum, the front bike is a Giant. What bike is so bad it is hidden behind the Giant?
-
This is my depth photo.
-
Couple of things about this photo. This is a place where a flagpole on a bike is the highest (non-living) feature! A place you bring the "sights to see" with you. And the bikes. We are in a Thorm forum, the front bike is a Giant. What bike is so bad it is hidden behind the Giant?
This was taken pre-Thorn conversion. The bike behind is also a Giant MTB converted for touring.
The current bikes; both of us have done a Rohloff change-over. Mine with the Extrawheel is the Nomad Mk 2, my mates is a Bobobikes from Sydney that looks almost the same as the Nomad Mk 2 (note also my stickstandTM, developed as a substitute for the Pletscher Multi-zoom which gave up eventually with the 60kg payload)
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/petesig26/Red%20Centre%20Way%20and%20the%20road%20to%20Old%20Andado/P1020177_zpsaa3f4438.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/petesig26/media/Red%20Centre%20Way%20and%20the%20road%20to%20Old%20Andado/P1020177_zpsaa3f4438.jpg.html)
Better shot of Rob's Bobobike. VERY similar to my Thorn Nomad.
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/petesig26/Red%20Centre%20Way%20and%20the%20road%20to%20Old%20Andado/P1020144_zpsd9d2bcf8.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/petesig26/media/Red%20Centre%20Way%20and%20the%20road%20to%20Old%20Andado/P1020144_zpsd9d2bcf8.jpg.html)
-
How did the bike handle the "4WD Only" route?
-
The sand and corrugations of the 'main road' were challenging enough that we decided 12kms was close enough to say we had been to the centre of Australia ;).
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/petesig26/Red%20Centre%20Way%20and%20the%20road%20to%20Old%20Andado/P1020160_zpsce9c8cbb.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/petesig26/media/Red%20Centre%20Way%20and%20the%20road%20to%20Old%20Andado/P1020160_zpsce9c8cbb.jpg.html)
-
I fitted an ESGE rear kickstand using an old inner tube as a sheath to my new Raven Tour that I bought in 2005. I was blissfully unaware of any possible warranty void by fitting it. It worked without any problem at all and when I sold the bike last year (with stand), there was no indication of rust or malforming of the chainstay.
I bought a Pletscher centre stand for my Raven Sport and fitted it using a purpose made plastic protector where the stand fits under the frame and using an old inner tube for the clamp at the top. It was no where near as stable and effective as the rear mount but did look better than the rear mount. After removing the stand, I have found no blistering of paint or indentation of the frame.
I have now ordered the Pletscher multi zoom rear stand and am more than confident it will do what I expect of it. Travelling through France this year, it seemed to be the preferred choice of touring cyclists and on one occasion I saw a stand mounted at the front working in conjunction with rear stand.
As regards "lifetime warranty", it would seem this implies to the lifetime of the product whilst still on sale by the manufacturer - so if Thorn stop making the Raven Tour Sport - as they have done, admittedly still selling the frames only - does this mean the "lifetime warranty" is now void for Raven Tour Sports?
My understanding is that "lifetime warranty" guarantees repair of the faulty product whereas "lifetime guarantee" implies replacement of the faulty product. Not being a specialized bike mechanic and only a humble plumber, I fail to see how a rear stand - fitted correctly and with care and caution - can possibly challenge the integrity of a steel framed cycle. How does the 2nd owner without the prior knowledge of a rear stand having been fitted approach Thorn with a claim for a defective frame.
Imagine the logistics involved. Photgraphs sent - bike sent - frame sent - previous owner now deceased - claim and then rejection - does the warranty apply to original owner only? Personally, I would concede that the Clickstick will take more load than the rear stand, but for my loads now of only 25kg max, the rear Pletscher rear multi zoom is the choice - even just for convenience alone. I would think that most of us would want to lock our cycles to something when we left them unattended, agreed? With rear stand, that is attached to the cycle and does not look a source of attraction to the smart arse passing by. On the other hand, the Clickstick is just begging to be kicked away to see the cycle fall over by the aforementioned smart arse - now elevated to the rank of pratt!
You pays your money, you takes your choice but I do agree with part of Andre's rant that it would eliminate all doubt and conjecture if Thorn welded / brazed on purpose made brackets to fitted with a rear stand of their testing and choice. Hells bells, they recommend, specify and fit other manufacturers components to their bikes, so why not a stand?
Affectionately yours
Hoot
-
As regards "lifetime warranty", it would seem this implies to the lifetime of the product whilst still on sale by the manufacturer - so if Thorn stop making the Raven Tour Sport - as they have done, admittedly still selling the frames only - does this mean the "lifetime warranty" is now void for Raven Tour Sports?
Warranty applies to the liftime of the origional owner only, damage caused by kickstands is fairly obvious when you see it (crushed or malformed tubing). The warranty on an RST is still valid we just replace with the closest Thorn model at the time of claim. (Raven with 853 fork probably)
You pays your money, you takes your choice but I do agree with part of Andre's rant that it would eliminate all doubt and conjecture if Thorn welded / brazed on purpose made brackets to fitted with a rear stand of their testing and choice. Hells bells, they recommend, specify and fit other manufacturers components to their bikes, so why not a stand?
We have done prototypes with lugs for a stand, to prevent the lug twisting the tube with a loaded touring bike leant on lightly we had to use such thick tubing it compromised the comfort and ride of the bike, something we just arn't going to do. Even if we did you still need a strong enough stand...
Think about it, if there was a way to do it we would do it, we would get to sell stands making money and avoid all the explanations as to why we don't fit them.
We are quite happy for people to fit stands as they wish, we just can't entertain warranty claims if the tubing where they clamp or in that proximity gets damaged.
I know people have used x,y and z stands and not had issues so far, but I know people that have run accross motorways and been fine, it doesn't mean its a good idea ;D
-
So how does Tout Terrain manage to do it with their Silk Road ??
-
So how does Tout Terrain manage to do it with their Silk Road ??
Real thick tubing I guess.
-
Hmm.... placed in a very strong position by the look of this photo. I doubt the tubing twists too much there.
(http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/shifters/TT-road-roh-ext.jpg)
-
Quote
We are quite happy for people to fit stands as they wish, we just can't entertain warranty claims if the tubing where they clamp or in that proximity gets damaged.
So, for the avoidance of doubt, if the original owner had a rear kick stand fitted and there was a problem elsewhere on the frame and unrelated to the kickstand, the lifetime warranty would still be valid and the claim upheld?
My understanding and perhaps, that of others, was that by fitting a stand - any stand - then the warranty is totally void.
Is my understanding wrong?
Thanks
-
So, for the avoidance of doubt, if the original owner had a rear kick stand fitted and there was a problem elsewhere on the frame and unrelated to the kickstand, the lifetime warranty would still be valid and the claim upheld?
Thats entirely correct, we are reasonable people, even where the customer has been proven to be at fault we have always offered a more favorable reply that "tough" (be this discounted labour/part etc).
Hope this clarifies.
-
Crystal.
Thanks for taking the effort to reply and removing the ambiguity of warranty when fitting a rear kick stand.
Common sense should tell you when it's being overloaded / strained, but sadly, that's short on the ground these days.
Mind you, if the ex climbed on my bike, that could well invalidate the warranty if you saw the state of her now.
I don't know if I'm luckier to own the RST or be shut of her - a close call!!
Have a good weekend y'all.
-
New Official Thorn stand
-
New Official Thorn stand
Dont come to us with any warranty claims on that Deore crank cap ;D
-
I'm sure the Sri Lankan farmer assured me it was a Thorn approved item however he may also have been saying "would you like some of this tasty alcoholic coconut drink?"
-
Hang on! I had already trademarked my StickStand >:( ;)
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/petesig26/Red%20Centre%20Way%20and%20the%20road%20to%20Old%20Andado/P1020140_zpsa3ace357.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/petesig26/media/Red%20Centre%20Way%20and%20the%20road%20to%20Old%20Andado/P1020140_zpsa3ace357.jpg.html)
-
Hang on! I had already trademarked my StickStand >:( ;)
Uh-oh... Lawyers at 50 paces!
-
I have approached the worldwide stick ombudsman enclosing the following video
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw6EtNps14H1M0JrcmJDd2EyRk0/view?usp=sharing
They said even if somebody had an earlier claim to this patent I would have the rights for pure devotion to the cause.
*WARNING* Contains scenes of sticky nature and heat stroke commentary
If it doesn't play use the "preview" method
-
;D ;D ;D Richie your mental 8)
jags
-
;D ;D ;D You simply made my day with this, Richie! ;D ;D ;D
All the best,
Dan.
-
Nice clip & stick.
All I heard was Persian Gulf.
Where were you approx?
Any what camera?
Thanks
Matt
-
Richie, I'm beginning to understand how you made your grand trek. Such, er, stick-to-itiveness! Glad you recovered your prop!! Cheers, John.