Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: Andrew on October 28, 2003, 01:16:09 PM
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All New THORN 14 speed! Rohloff hub gear equipped Raven Tour and Raven Sport Tour - available Now! ...
Click here (http://"http://www.sjscycles.com/images/otherimages/RavenBrochure2004_4.pdf") for the latest information (takes a little time as it's a PDF, but worth waiting for!)
Contact us (http://"sales@sjscycles.com")
(http://www.sjscycles.com/images/Raven_side_on_small.gif)
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So, how much ?
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Click here (http://"http://www.sjscycles.com/thorn/raven/raven.htm")
As a complete bike the Raven Tour will cost £1099 and the Raven Sport Tour will cost £1299 both cycles will come with the superb Rohloff hub and gear shifter, top quality tyres, headset and SKS mudguards and all the other components will be of good quality… many upgrades will be available.
Touch up paint and an eccentric adjusting tool will be supplied.
(prices inc VAT).
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What tube-set are you using on the Tour? I could only see that the Sports is 853.
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Land
What tube-set are you using on the Tour? I could only see that the Sports is 853.
Hi Chris,
Thorn 969 double butted, conical, seamless, cold-drawn, heat treated cro-mo frame tubes.
With Reynolds 725 heavy-duty stays.
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Out of interest, now you've shown yourselves in favour of high-ratio-number hub gears, why do you provide your Commutour only with a 3-speed? Do you have reliability questions about Shimano or Sram's 7 speeds?
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Hi, WRT the question:
"Out of interest, now you've shown yourselves in favour of high-ratio-number hub gears, why do you provide your Commutour only with a 3-speed? Do you have reliability questions about Shimano or Sram's 7 speeds?"
The Commutour is now a model that we will not now produce, we only have a few frames left. Being made in the UK it is no longer economic or viable.
The Sturmey hub IS more reliable than SRAM or Shimano, but more importantly spares are more readily available AND it is cheap.
The Rholoff however is just fantastic in EVRY respect!!!
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quote:
Originally posted by Andrew
an eccentric adjusting tool will be supplied.
Wow ... I knew the English were a bit different but even an tool to adjust the rider! [:)]
cheers,
hoogie
Timaru/Oamaru, New Zealand
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Robin: thanks for the reply about Thorn bicycles with hub gears. I speak as an ardent enthusiast for Thorn products and service ... but I was surprised that you gave your entry for the commuting bike market only three speeds on its hub-gear version. I don't need the same number or range of gears for commuting as for touring but I would find just 3 too limiting (I actually use a Sram 7 speed and on my normal 8 mile commute use bottom for about 10 yards up one specific hill and top with a following wind)
On the other hand, would I be able to justify the cost of the 14-speed for a dedicated commuting bike rather than for touring when I wouldn't use most of the ratios? Not sure on that one, however good the engineering....
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Just curious, what is Thorn 969 tubing?
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quote:
Originally posted by RJC
Just curious, what is Thorn 969 tubing?
Hi RJC,
Welcome to the forum.
Thorn 969 tubes (down tube, top tube & seat tube) are custom cold-drawn from cro-mo to our exact specifications and are conical, double butted, seamless & heat treated. They are a heavier-duty gauge than the Reynolds 853.
The 969 frame tubeset also gets Reynolds 725 heavy-duty rear stays.
Andrew
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Hi. What are the relative weights of the two models. Any info on wheels and other componants available?
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quote:
Originally posted by strat
Hi. What are the relative weights of the two models. Any info on wheels and other componants available?
Full brochure available very shortly! Im working on it right now.
Frame weights vary by approx. 200g (Sport Tour being lighter).
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quote:
Originally posted by Andrew
Thorn 969 tubes (down tube, top tube & seat tube) are custom cold-drawn from cro-mo to our exact specifications and are conical, double butted, seamless & heat treated. They are a heavier-duty gauge than the Reynolds 853.
Is 969 similar to 531/525 in yield strength or something stronger?
Did you consider putting disc brake mounts on the rear - preferably in a way that doesn't interfere with a rack?
Robin
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What about using the disc brake version of the Rohloff hub. This would make sense with the tour for off road particularly in muddy or sandy conditions.
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andrew,how is the brochure going?
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How would a bike like this compare to a Nomad or eXp? Would you ever recommend fitting a Rohloff to one of these bikes, rather than a traditional mechanism? What are the pros and cons?
(Sorry for such open questions, I just thought that if the hub is that good, why bother with traditional gears on a top-notch expedition bike?...)
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quote:
Originally posted by strat
andrew,how is the brochure going?
We are working on the brochure right now & hope to have a version posted out tomorrow so it can be digested over christmas [:)]
Andrew
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Now Available from Stock! ...
All Raven Sport Tour & Tour sizes & colours!
Andrew
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***Forum Exclusive***
Hot off the press Christmas eve!
Tour & Sport Tour brochure:
Thorn Raven 14 speed internal hub gear cycles...
Download the PDF version of the brochure now.
Broadband (1MB) - high quality images (http://"http://www.sjscycles.com/images/otherimages/RavenBrochure2004_4.pdf")
Andrew
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Chris Land asked how the Raven compared with a Nomad.
I'm also a happy Nomad owner who'd be even happier if mine had hub gears. I use it as an only bike for everything from commuting to camping. If I could justify replacing it with a Raven would I be downgrading? (Thinking about the imported, welded, frame as opposed to the nice hand crafted Nomad one and how Reynolds 531 compares to Thorn 969). Reading the bit about custom dropouts etc. I can see that converting the existing bike isn't really a DIY job!
Also, as I assured my wife that the Nomad was worth that much money (she thinks a bike costs £150) because it would last forever I'd have a hard time spending another £1100+ on a Raven so how about a part-ex option?
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Hi Tony
Any Thorn owner can PX their bike for another Thorn @ any time, we offer 100% of the current 2nd hand value off the new purchase. WRT to Raven Tour V Nomad, our initial indications are that these frames are very similar, in fact if your Nomad is more than 3 years old, I’d say the Raven Tour was probably stiffer.
As to Taiwan V UK this is more an emotional issue than anything else. To be brutally frank, I’d say that the Taiwanese builder is MORE ACCURATE than our off site UK builder. BUT if you like the look of lugless brass braze, then you've got to stick with the UK.
We are also making custom Raven frames here in our own onsite frame shop, but this is a very expensive option and can't be really justified ONLY on the grounds of aesthetics! As to longevity, well, both framesets come with our lifetime warranty so there's no worry there.
HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL
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quote:
Originally posted by MattHodges
What about using the disc brake version of the Rohloff hub. This would make sense with the tour for off road particularly in muddy or sandy conditions.
Hi Matt
There will in fact be a special CNC plate which screws to the 2 rear mudguard and carrier eyes, this will accept a current disc brake, but better than that, when there is a NEW design disc brake with yet another fitting, we will almost certainly be able to make a plate to accept it!
However, there’s still no solution for disc brakes on the FRONT with a Reynolds fork, only by using a suspension fork can you have a fork stiff enough for the brake and yet also offer some comfort.
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Good luck with this forum. Its an excellent way to get in touch with you. A couple of questions: On the Sport Tour model, doesn't "springy" rear stays mean "whippy"? And for an average weight rider, what does a moderate amount of weight mean? Would you recommend a rear rack for this model?
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Robin (RJC) asked "Is 969 similar to 531/525 in yield strength or something stronger?"
Tony Smith asked "how Reynolds 531 compares to Thorn 969"
I'm sure this is excelent tubing, but where *does* this tubing sit in the greater scheme of things ie. weight, strength, tube diameter etc?
I see from the previous posts that the difference between the two frames is 200grams, what is the weight for a tour frame with the heavy duty forks (less HS & BB)? What is the weight of a sport tour frame with the carbon forks (less HS & BB)?
While I know it is possible to go overboard saving weight, what would you consider the weight of a "naked" (no gaurds/racks) sport tour with carbon forks & standard spec to be?
Sorry for all the weight questions, but I am looking for a do every thing bike or as near as I can get, sometimes stripped down fast bike in the summer, sometimes panniers packed to go visit Granny, sometimes m[xx(]gaurds and rack bag in winter, sometimes short runs, sometimes long audax...etc...just trying to get a picture in my head [:)]
Regards, David.
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Thorn 969 tubing!
Thorn 969 tubing is made of the same raw material as Reynolds 725, it undergoes the same processes inc heat treatment. How a frame works is not only about which steel is used, but in what diameter, thickness and shape, and more importantly, the geometry of the frame.
We don't quote weights for several reasons:
weights vary from size to size, even between sizes as there is some tolerance in manufacture resulting in difference. If you were to actually WEIGH some of the bikes/frames from other builders, who DO quote weights, you'd find them wildly different! So this is just one reason why we prefer to say, if you don't want our bike, up to 14 days after you've received it, you can return it for a 100% refund, if you're on the UK mainland we'll even collect it again (providing you kept the box) @ OUR expense.
I'm sorry that we can't weigh every frame from each range in every size and post the APPROXIMATE weights, but none of our models are race bikes, a few 100g is irrelevant relative to the other items including the rider @ say 75000g and luggage @ say 25000g
To get this in context our heaviest frame (EXP) in the smallest size would probably weigh near enough the same as our lightest frame (Cyclosportif) in the largest size.
I hope this helps, if you (or anyone else for that matter) would like to discuss this or any other issue, feel free to call me on (++44)(0)1278-441522
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin Thorn
Thorn 969 tubing!
Thorn 969 tubing is made of the same raw material as Reynolds 725, it undergoes the same processes inc heat treatment. How a frame works is not only about which steel is used, but in what diameter, thickness and shape, and more importantly, the geometry of the frame.
We don't quote weights for several reasons:
weights vary from size to size, even between sizes as there is some tolerance in manufacture resulting in difference. If you were to actually WEIGH some of the bikes/frames from other builders, who DO quote weights, you'd find them wildly different! So this is just one reason why we prefer to say, if you don't want our bike, up to 14 days after you've received it, you can return it for a 100% refund, if you're on the UK mainland we'll even collect it again (providing you kept the box) @ OUR expense.
I'm sorry that we can't weigh every frame from each range in every size and post the APPROXIMATE weights, but none of our models are race bikes, a few 100g is irrelevant relative to the other items including the rider @ say 75000g and luggage @ say 25000g
To get this in context our heaviest frame (EXP) in the smallest size would probably weigh near enough the same as our lightest frame (Cyclosportif) in the largest size.
I hope this helps, if you (or anyone else for that matter) would like to discuss this or any other issue, feel free to call me on (++44)(0)1278-441522
Sorry, I saw the weight for the sherpa in the online brochure and thought you might be able to give a "from" weight.
Regards, David
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Why does the Thorn Raven have an eccentric for chain tensioning and not Rohloff dropouts? Is the eccentric better?
Ed
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Well, I took the plunge and P/Xed the Nomad for a Raven last week. It arrived on Thursday and although I'll spend the next few days messing about adjusting things to my liking I'm very pleased with it.
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Hi
the eccentric is much dearer to make, but miles better, the wheel just goes back in where it came out after a puncture with no faffing about getting the wheel straight, chain tight etc.
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Imagine my horror when I opened the Cycling+ a couple of months ago, to find a bike almost identical to the one I have had made. The Raven would have cost me considerably less with comparable steel frame, but I still have to put up with the torque arm and getting the wheel aligned. The speedhub is fantastic, it makes mixed and undulating riding so much easier. To put potential users mind at rest, the hub does get quieter and smoother on the lower gears after a few months use [ or have I just got used to it?! ]
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If anyone is trying to make up their mind about a Raven - I took the plunge with an Adventure Tour a couple of weeks ago and I am DEEELighted! I have loved the three Thorns I previously owned, but this is definitely a move in the right direction for me. If you're poised on the brink - go for it![^]
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I took delivery of my Thorn Raven two weeks ago. It is superb in every way - build, handling, and mechanically (the Rohloff is a magnificent piece of kit with quick and positive gear changes). Would not contemplate owning a derailleur bike again. So far I've only used it for the daily commute (20 mile round trip) and a couple of longer rides (350 miles to date). I will be using it for a two-day C2C over the Easter weekend, for audax, and for cycling across Switzerland in the Summer.
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I've been following the progress of the Raven ever since I got my first look at one at the Cycle Show in London last year.
This spring is when I finally take the plunge - but will it be the Raven or the XTC? I'm fascinated with the hub gears on the Raven, but I'm just not sure about the flat bars. Over long distances on the road, I've always used drops - and I can't imagine climbing a 10% using bar ends.
On the other hand, flat bars would allow me to mount a Centric Safe Haven child seat...
Any thoughts on the bars or child seat?
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I swapped from an XTC to the Raven Adventure Tour. This was not because of any dissatisfaction with the XTC, which I loved, but I am planning an End-to-End ride in April/May and decided that I would feel happier carrying my camping gear, etc., on a sturdier bike, especially as I'm hoping to take in some fairly rugged parts of NW Scotland - Inverpolly, Cape Wrath, etc.
The flat bars were one of the big questions in my mind too, but having made the change I am entirely happy. I went for the Thorn Comfort bars with Thorn carbon bar ends and have had no regrets. They are really comfortable, even after 40 miles or more. Another bonus is the fact that I feel more in control, especially off-road on rough tracks, than I ever did with drops. The brakes are right there at your fingertips, the gears are (snick,snick,) almost a subconscious action. As for climbing, it's no harder than with drops. After all, mountain bikes have used flat bars all along, haven't they?
I'm trying not to sound too brainwashed (sad!) as no-one persuaded me to buy this bike. I guess the Raven just suits my kind of cycling.
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Damn, I am beginning to get envious - however as a girly thing I dont like the celtic graphic or the branding on the tubes, i think its a bit overkill. I like the simpler traditional approach. BUT I STILL THINK I WANT ONE - ahhh well I can dream - one day [^]
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If traditional is your thing, how about the black Stealth finish? No OTT graphics there.