Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Rohloff Internal Hub Gears => Topic started by: Cake on April 24, 2008, 10:07:56 AM
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Greetings all,
I decided to change the oil in the Rohloff for the first time yesterday and found it to be a very straightforward procedure.
The hub has done 1700 miles, i have bulk oil and cleaning oil (£1.65 per oil change inc. P&P!) so thought it would be a good idea. I know manufacturing methods and tolerances are much improved but i still remember a time when engines etc. needed an oil change after a brief period of running in - it certainly can't do any harm!
Anyway, 25ml of cleaning oil into the hub, 35 ml of oils out, and that was after an hour of settling/draining while lunch was consumed... This agrees with what jcabuckley found in an earlier post and others have shown concern about, it seems quite normal. I put 15ml of new oil back in (following Thorns advice on their YouTube spot) rather than the 25ml Rohloff suggest as i will change it again at 3000 miles and then every subsequent 3000 (easier to remember than every 3125 miles!) I think i'll put 20ml of fresh oil in from then onwards.... Any thoughts on this chaps?!
The grub screw went back in a treat with a drop of Loctite 222 to keep it in place, and that was it - an enjoyable job done.
The hub was noticably smoother and slicker during a lovely 20 mile countryside test ride and not the slightest hint of weeping from the grub screw upon my return - great!
So if there is anybody about to do this for the first time, its not something to worry about attempting, and if only a small amount of old oil comes out of the hub this is another case that supports its normality!
Gary.
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I used to change my motorbike engine oil at half the interval recommended.
Running gears in clean(er) oil is only ever a good idea.
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About 12ml adheres to the internal parts you will never get all the oil out just like with a car engine, dont expect to get more than about 5-10ml of oil back out.
Dont overfill, it will just vent out any oil it dosn't want through the axle and make you think you have a leak
I personaly cant see the point in trying to re-use drain plugs as they cost nothing compared to the price of the hub but if your going to then let the loctite dry before screwing the drain plug in as you dont want loctite getting into the internals.
When you do oil changes its worth cleaning the exterior of the seals paying attention to the lips of the seals as dirt under the seal lip will let oil past. To do this to the sprocket side you will need to remove the sprocket.
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Hi all, just to say that I have had my Thorn Raven Enduro for a year now. Its great.
Just before I took delivery of it I had the guys at SJS change the oil as it was an ex demo bike.
Now with many miles under its belt and because I love it so I decided to change the oil.
I bought the change kit from SJS cycles and got to work. I put the 25ml cleaning oil in and did as told.
Believe it or not I managed to get the full 50ml back out. It took over an hour to do it and I must admit
I never thought I'd get there, but I did.
I was indoors, at a nice room temp with a couple of cups of tea and biscuits, just drawing a little fluid
out at a time. As soon as I began to draw air out of the hub I'd wait a few moments then continue.
I know this is not thought to be the norm which is why I'm posting. I'd be interested to know if anyone else
has managed to do the same?
Simon
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I think my last oil change required a bit of in/out plunger action to get all the old oil out. Never got 50ml out though, sounds like SJSC may have put a bit more in than necessary.
Reading between the lines of how the hub can run 'dry' for many miles and how too much oil results in it leaking out I don't think there's much you can do wrong and harm the hub.
If some dirty stuff comes out and some clean stuff goes in I think you are OK.
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At my last oil change I got 60ml out! The oil change before that was done at the LBS and I suspect they either put too much in or didn’t take the time needed to get all the old oil out. It does take a while to get it all out. However I didn’t notice anything unusual about the hub when it had too much in or since. It just keeps on changing gears whenever I twist the grip shift.
Peter
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In theory you should get less out on you first oil change as some of the oil is left sticking to the gears. So if 25ml was added originally and 10ml sticks then you get out 15ml. Now you add 25ml so there is 35ml total in your hub, on your next oil change 10ml is left sticking meaning that you get 25ml back...
It is the 10ml residual that supposedly makes it safe to cycle on a 'dry' hub. (Not something I would recommend.) If the hub was truly dry I doubt that you would get 20 miles.
Personally I fill with 20ml of oil (splitting the difference between the recommendation of Rohloff and SJSC)
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I've just this evening done my first oil change. Emptied the bottle just less than 25ml of cleaning oil in, and after a very long drain period, several pulls on the syringe, hub nice and warm (next to the fire), I extracted only about 22ml.
So, though slightly concerning, I guess this ties up with other's observations, but I was expecting to get just a litle bit of oil out!
I've never seen any sign of leakage, but then I probably wouldn't as it spent it's first year with a permanent coating of mud.
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Dont overfill, it will just vent out any oil it dosn't want through the axle and make you think you have a leak
I know this is an old theread, but this needs tb said:
...and if you have a disc brake back there, your next gravel-littered steep descent (where you can't use the front brake much bc the wheel will wash out) will be "interesting"....
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Just did mine this morning. Got about 40cc out. Only problem opening the grub screw was in my case difficult. It was as tight as hell and I was about to give up when it gave. It'll be interesting to see whether my odd clunky changes and occasional initial slight slips of gear go away or not. Rode it around a small bit and it was definitely NOT quieter, nor was it noisier. I did the change at 2765 miles.
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Rode it around a small bit and it was definitely NOT quieter, nor was it noisier. I did the change at 2765 miles.
Give it a week or so. I did my first change earlier than you have (about 1300 km) and it took a little while for the new oil to mix in with the old. It now runs very quiet with only 7th being a little noisy. That's my experience - I suspect each Speed Hub has a mind of it's own, so perhaps yours will be different.
I changed mine early because I'd done a very muddy, wet tour with the hub being submerged a few times on flooded crossings - so I wanted to see if any water had got in - it hadn't, which speaks volumes for the seals.
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I haven’t noticed any change in the noise level in any of the gears of my RT over the whole 33,000 km that I have been riding it. However others who only ride with me occasionally tell me that it is much quieter now. I guess the change has been too gradual for me to notice it day to day.
Peter
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Just did mine this morning. Got about 40cc out. Only problem opening the grub screw was in my case difficult. It was as tight as hell and I was about to give up when it gave. It'll be interesting to see whether my odd clunky changes and occasional initial slight slips of gear go away or not. Rode it around a small bit and it was definitely NOT quieter, nor was it noisier. I did the change at 2765 miles.
After a week changing was perfect. I've had no dodgy changes since. Is it quieter? Not in no. , but in the others a little, I think. The sound doesn't bother me any more anyway.
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I've just this evening done my first oil change. Emptied the bottle just less than 25ml of cleaning oil in, and after a very long drain period, several pulls on the syringe, hub nice and warm (next to the fire), I extracted only about 22ml.
So, though slightly concerning, I guess this ties up with other's observations, but I was expecting to get just a litle bit of oil out!
I've never seen any sign of leakage, but then I probably wouldn't as it spent it's first year with a permanent coating of mud.
Just done my first oil change, 25ml cleaning oil in and 24ml out! The only thing I forgot to do was extract some air after I put the cleaning oil in.
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Only got about 20ml out.
So why is the old oil black? Is it metal particles from the cogs, or dirt from the outside, or both?
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The new oil is black for starters, at least mine is.
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Didn't want to hear that... This was a new oil-change kit.
So did it used to be clear, or am I the victim of some kind of knock-off fraud?
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Didn't want to hear that... This was a new oil-change kit.
So did it used to be clear, or am I the victim of some kind of knock-off fraud?
New from the factory it is nasty black stuff. Works, though.
If you want goodlooking Rohloff oil, get the Oil of Rohloff chain oil. Just a few drops last a long time (I use a Hebie Chainglider) and it smells good too.
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The rinsing oil is clear(ish)
Peter
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I got this new from Derek Cycles. It was the complete oil-change kit, in Rohloff labelled bottles, with filler tube, replacement grub-screw etc. The two types of oil were markedly different.
Also, the guy on here (I forget who, and his post was removed) who was breaking up the big cans of cleaning and hub oil, supplied two different clear varieties.
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So anyway, I went to the source:
It can be either, depending what comes out of the factory. The black stuff is Molybdenum disulfide. Apparently the oil is one thing they constantly tinker with, to get the best performance. Oh, and always give it a good shake.
The man from Rohloff, he say Yes!
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Just about to go do an oil change. Waiting for the glue on the tube to dry. Two bottles of clear oil, both the cleaning oil and the standard oil. We'll see what comes out.
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Side note: Yesterday I tried to wash out last year's syringe with hot water and soap. Failed to get some nasty black rings out. Decided not to reuse the syringe for fear that the cleaning oil will dissolve the nasty black stuff and put it back in my gearbox. It might be just a sediment of the black oil I put in at the last service, Molybdenum disulfide, I believe, or it might be the bits ground off a box that was new before that service. In any event, reusing that syringe could become a case of being cheap in order to be stuck with a big bill later.
Hobbes
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I'm about to do my 1st oil change tonight (gulp). Haven't thought about keeping the syringe or not, what do others do, my gut feeling is to just bin the lot and get a new oil change kit for next time.
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Buy a second oil change kit and keep both syringes and connecting pipes.
You now have a syringe for old and a syringe for new clean oil for all future oil changes.
Next buy a larger quantity of oils when some one is splitting the 1litre tins and you are set up for a long time at minimum expense.
I reuse the old grub screw and it has worked for me.
I read that putting fresh loctite on on a reused grubscrew and fitting it when wet risks the loctite getting into the hub...
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Buy a second oil change kit and keep both syringes and connecting pipes.
You now have a syringe for old and a syringe for new clean oil for all future oil changes.
You're a wise man, Gunga Julk.
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The lad that was splitting and selling big tins took his post off himself due to it being so over susbcribed.
I re-use syringe and tube and nut. never use loctite, just nip it up to what feels right. 4th year now.
Interesting to hear that Rohloff are always tinkering with the formula.
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1st oil change at the weekend, it does indeed feel smoother but i wonder if thats just because its got more oil in it now.
I put in about 17 ml (compromise between thorn vid and rohloff guide)
SHifting feels a bit smoother, and gear 7 and below feel less grindy. I used a new drain plug and got it up to torq before it was fully screwed home. I'll keep an eye on this. I'll probably get all anal and park it with drain plug up form now on !