Thorn Cycles Forum

Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: in4 on October 27, 2024, 11:15:19 AM

Title: Pump placement
Post by: in4 on October 27, 2024, 11:15:19 AM: I’m looking at pump placement solutions. I want to attach a pump to my Nomad frame. All three of my bottle holders are in use so I was thinking I might attach the pump and its holder on to the back of the seat tube, adjacent to the rear guard. I’ve a few solutions in mind but wondered what other Nomad riders did.

I always carry two pumps but want to take one out of my tool kit so I can then use an under saddle tool bag ( freeing up a bit of pannier space )
Suggestions and/or photos appreciated.
TIA
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: WorldTourer on October 27, 2024, 12:33:08 PM: Here’s what one Nomad rider did to his great satisfaction, though I don’t know if you want to overhaul your setup this much: move two of those water bottles in the frame triangle to feed bags mounted on either side of the stem. The Decathlon feed bag, for example, is cheap, big enough to hold even a Nalgene, and durable enough to have lasted me over 20,000 km. (I guess the third bottle, if it is a mere backup, could go under the downtube.) Then, use the frame triangle for a frame bag, which really improves handling and comfort if you pack your heavier items there. The Ortlieb 6L frame bag doesn’t take up quite the entire triangle on my medium-sized Nomad Mk3 frame, so there is room underneath it to mount my pump on the top of the downtube.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: Danneaux on October 27, 2024, 02:34:48 PM: Quote
...I was thinking I might attach the pump and its holder on to the back of the seat tube, adjacent to the rear guard...

For the last 12 years, I've remained very pleased with my Zefal HPX mounted vertically behind the seat tube, Ian. For photos and description, see...
https://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4523.msg22077#msg22077

Best, Dan.

Edit: Clips are available with some pumps or separately that mount between a bottle cage and frame bosses, so you can use both a bottle/cage and a pump in the same location. A search for "Lezyne pump clips mounts" brings up a number of examples.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: UKTony on October 27, 2024, 04:21:00 PM: Quote from: Danneaux on October 27, 2024, 02:34:48 PM
Quote
...I was thinking I might attach the pump and its holder on to the back of the seat tube, adjacent to the rear guard...

For the last 12 years, I've remained very pleased with my Zefal HPX mounted vertically behind the seat tube, Ian. For photos and description, see...
https://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4523.msg22077#msg22077

Best, Dan.

Edit: Clips are available with some pumps or separately that mount between a bottle cage and frame bosses, so you can use both a bottle/cage and a pump in the same location. A search for "Lezyne pump clips mounts" brings up a number of examples.

A Lezyne mini pump came with my Mk2 Nomad in 2013 from Thorn. Not sure if this particular model of pump is still produced. The bracket is available on its own, SJSC part number 21560, say if you wanted to move the pump temporarily to another bike, and might be compatible with other Lezyne pumps. Pump mounted upside down to help prevent rain water etc getting inside the pump barrel 🙂
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: energyman on October 27, 2024, 07:47:25 PM: I've a pump clip on the same two bolts as the bottle holder. They are on ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/bn_7023567930
oops sorry Dan just re-read your post !
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: Andyb1 on October 27, 2024, 08:10:36 PM: I now carry pumps where they can not be seen, in a bag I will take with me if the bike is parked up. They are too easily stolen!
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: mickeg on October 27, 2024, 10:40:19 PM: My pump is held to the bike with a bracket under the bottle cage.

On the seat tube it collects less dust than down tube mounting.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: hendrich on October 27, 2024, 11:06:33 PM: For many years I carried a pump attached to the frame, no longer. One time, in the middle of nowhere, a flat occurred, and there were many miles/time since the last flat. The pump failed due to crud buildup over the time since the last flat. After much work and water with the pump, I managed to get some air into the tire and limp down the road to a distant gas station. If the pump is to be mounted outside, protect it with something, perhaps an umbrella case sleeve, not sure they are good for anything anyways.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: John Saxby on October 28, 2024, 02:18:46 AM: Ian,

My Lezyne pump lives in my Revelate medium frame bag, on the (shallower) left side rear. It's out of the elements and away from prying eyes.

That's on my Mercury, not a Nomad, but the pump was in the same spot on my Raven.

Plenty of space in the main triangle for the medium Revelate bag and two bottle cages -- I used a large on my Raven.

I had mounted an earlier pump on the rear of the seat tube, but that was pinched. :(

Cheers, John
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: martinf on October 28, 2024, 06:50:12 AM: Quote from: Andyb1 on October 27, 2024, 08:10:36 PM
I now carry pumps where they can not be seen, in a bag I will take with me if the bike is parked up. They are too easily stolen!

After having pump and/or water bottles stolen on toilet stops, since the late 1970's I put my pump in one of my bags, not necessarily one that I take with me. And I use disposable water bottles.

Since decent small pumps became available I use one of those, either a very small Lezyne pump with aluminium barrel and reversible flexible connector that goes with my everyday toolkit, or on long tours where I know I will have to top up the tyres I take a larger Lezyne like the one in UKTony's photo.

The small one is only for punctures, it takes quite a long time to pump a fat tyre up to pressure, but I rarely have to use it. The larger pump is bulkier but more convenient to use.

As I don't do wilderness touring (no real wilderness in France and neighbouring countries) I only carry one of the two.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: in4 on October 28, 2024, 08:23:23 AM: Great replies, thanks everyone.
I hadn’t thought about the theft issue but yes it’s unfortunately a consideration. Only yesterday a fellow cyclist witnessed the attempted theft of a ‘senior’ rider’s ebike. The gentleman was approached by two teenagers riding a Surron. Suffice to say other passing cyclists offered the alleged thieves some appropriate encouragement re the wisdom of their venture.

My pump is a comparatively minor issue. That said I do have a small frame bag that will take a pump. If I can site it somewhere on the frame I might have a solution.
Thanks again. It’s great to see photos of your bikes.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: mickeg on October 28, 2024, 12:09:58 PM: Near home I usually use a Road Morph G.

Bike touring, either the Road Morph G or the Lezyne Micro Floor Drive.

The one I use near home sees a lot of dust from frequent riding on gravel trails. I have several bikes and have pumps on all of them. When the Road Morph G starts to look pretty dusty, I give it a good cleaning, inside and out.

I put it on the seat tube, not the down tube, the seat tube area attracts less dust from the front wheel than it would if located on the downtube.

Before I do a tour, I test all my critical equipment, such as tent, pump, etc., to make sure everything is still functional. My headlamp for my head failed a couple years ago, fortunately if failed in my test at home and not on the tour a couple weeks later.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: geocycle on October 28, 2024, 06:27:52 PM: I like my Lezyne pumps except when they unscrew the valve core. I recently discovered after several years of ownership the ABS system. This automatic bleed system is a rubber covered valve at the head which relieves pressure after pumping. This releases the grip and the valve core remains in place. I’m sure you all knew that but as someone who rarely reads instructions I’d missed this useful feature.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: mickeg on October 29, 2024, 09:12:31 AM: Quote from: geocycle on October 28, 2024, 06:27:52 PM
I like my Lezyne pumps except when they unscrew the valve core. I recently discovered after several years of ownership the ABS system. This automatic bleed system is a rubber covered valve at the head which relieves pressure after pumping. This releases the grip and the valve core remains in place. I’m sure you all knew that but as someone who rarely reads instructions I’d missed this useful feature.

Mine are older, do not have that extra valve. I have to use a wrench to tighten my valve cores to make sure they stay in place. I also used a thread locker on some of my valve cores, but I am hesitant to do that as you have to be careful to make sure none of it gets on valve seats that could cause a slow leak.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: PH on October 29, 2024, 11:15:07 AM: I think most of what can be said already has been, the days of the frame pump are over, they go missing too often (Two in my case) and better pumps have become available. Add to that the trend for larger volume, lower pressure tyres and the ideal pump isn't the one for narrower high pressure ones. it's no surprise that the one time gold standard HPX is no longer in production or that most framebuilders, inc Thorn, no longer include a pump peg as standard.
I had a HPX when I bought my Raven, in the location designed for it, behind the seat tube, it was at the time the best choice. I now have the mini track pump style and they're better in every way except they're a touch more awkward to pack. As I nearly always have a saddle bag, I carry mine attached just under the lid, in a purpose made bag.
I'm quite tempted by those USB rechargeable elec compressor pumps, I've seen one in use a coupler of times and been impressed. I would want to carry it without a back up, but that could be the smallest of mini pumps. For those not familiar, this sort of thing
https://www.cyclinguk.org/cycle-magazine/review-fumpa-and-minifumpa-battery-pumps
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: PH on October 29, 2024, 11:24:07 AM: Quote from: geocycle on October 28, 2024, 06:27:52 PM
I like my Lezyne pumps except when they unscrew the valve core.
I used to have a screw on floor pump that had the same issue, tightening the core reduced it, changing to tubes without a removeable core eliminated it, Michelin do some, or did, it's at least a decade since I had that pump.
For tightening - by coincidence or design, the jaws of a chain tool fit the core, there's no need for the specific tool in your kit, at home, any sort of thin pliers will do.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: Andre Jute on October 29, 2024, 01:35:51 PM: Depending on how long your pump is, and what you use the bike for, an unobtrusive location for the pump is under a longitudinal rail of the rack. Depending on how long your rack is, you might even be able to fit one of the shorter Zefal HPX pumps; they come in four lengths, the longer the more desirable but even the shortest one is a powerhouse compared to most mini-pumps -- there's no substitute for cubic inches of air. This works on tour if your panniers clip onto the lower rails of the rack, and your rack top bag doesn't droop over the edges of the rack, so you can get the pump out.

Here is a vertical mounting to the leg of a rack on one of my bikes.
(http://coolmainpress.com/Trek%20article%20illustrations%20Trimmed%20wide/xRear%20wheel,%20tyre,%20coat%20guard,%20roller%20brake%20and%20cooling%20discjpg.jpg)

This doesn't work too well if you use panniers, but I mostly use wire mesh pannier baskets (made by the Dutch Basel company), which leave access to the pump if not free at least visible so you don't scratch your hands extracting it. The pump is an SKS.

Below is my present pump attachment solution. The bottle is a Nathan which comes with rubber diaper, essential for preventing rattles; it's other convenience is that you sip from the top with the bottle upright instead of having to tilt it above your head.

(http://coolmainpress.com/aIMAGES/andre_jute_topeak_pump_bracket_mounted_under_bottle_holder_800pxw.jpg)

Some Topeak pumps come with a handy bracket which fits under the bottle cage anywhere your bike has sockets, with the pump mounting in the angle of the tube and the cage, instantly accessible. Topeak also sells the bracket separately.

(http://coolmainpress.com/aIMAGES/andre_jute_topeak_pump_bracket_under_bottle_cage_bracket_800pxh.jpg)

The higher black band is a velcro strap I fitted for additional security, with the end of the velcro hidden under the water bottle: without undoing the velcro all the way, the pump doesn't come out of the clip. The Topeak Peak DX in the clip was the best of the mini pumps by rigorous professional engineering test roundabout fifteen years ago.

Good luck with finding a solution that works for you.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: geocycle on October 29, 2024, 07:12:07 PM: Quote from: PH on October 29, 2024, 11:15:07 AM
I'm quite tempted by those USB rechargeable elec compressor pumps, I've seen one in use a coupler of times and been impressed. I would want to carry it without a back up, but that could be the smallest of mini pumps. For those not familiar, this sort of thing
https://www.cyclinguk.org/cycle-magazine/review-fumpa-and-minifumpa-battery-pumps

I have the Fumpa nano. It’s about the size of a matchbox and weighs very little. It charges very quickly and will inflate a touring tyre from flat to rideable. I’ve used it a couple of times and appreciated not having the upper body work out having a dodgy shoulder. I’d not rely completely on it as the capacity is a bit limited so for me it is a back up to the mini pump. I suppose if you had a power bank with you on tour it might be a reasonable risk. A bonus is the loud farting noise it makes!
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: WorldTourer on October 29, 2024, 07:52:55 PM: Never knew before now that people are using little USB pumps for tires. When I cycled Central Asia this summer, I did meet a few people with those pumps, but they were using them for their sleeping mats, since the ThermaRest NeoAir Xlite that is currently the most popular bikepacking mat is not self-inflating.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: mickeg on October 30, 2024, 11:07:13 AM: I average one puncture a year, if I was going to rely an an electric pump I would probably find out that the battery died months before I needed it.

The only time I get really perturbed with how long it takes to inflate tires with a small pump are when I fly somewhere with my Nomad Mk II. I have to deflate the 57mm wide tires to fit the bike in the S&S case. And pumping up two 57mm wide tires with a small pump takes some time and my arms are not used to that much work.

So, I will just continue to put up with the inconvenience of muscle powered pumps. That said, I might re-assess the electrics before my next trip with the Nomad Mk II.

The Lezyne Micro Floor Drive, that comes in a high pressure and a high volume version. I have both, use the high volume on my Nomad Mk II for tours, high pressure for my 37mm tires on my light touring bike. But around home use a Toppeak Road Morph G instead.

My last tour, I was a bit worried about theft of my pump on the frame. I carried a very tiny Zefal that would probably take eight times as long to pump up a tire as an emergency backup. But never needed it, no theft occurred. Once I topped up my tires during the two week trip, I don't need an electric for that.

I generally try to avoid buying things that have a USB rechargeable non-replaceable battery. If it took AA batteries, I would be more interested.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: JohnR on October 30, 2024, 02:12:48 PM: I once had a valve core unscrew when I was removing a Lezne pump hose. Since then each of my bikes has one of these fitted on one of the wheels to make it more convenient for checking if the cores are tight https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203317910489 .
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: PH on October 30, 2024, 03:03:48 PM: Quote from: WorldTourer on October 29, 2024, 07:52:55 PM
Never knew before now that people are using little USB pumps for tires.
Might not have been the same pumps, I have one for my mat, it'll pump a lot of air but not at a high enough pressure for a tyre, it was also about 20% of the price. I suspect if you tried to use a tyre pump on a mat it would half inflate it very quickly and flatten the battery doing so.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: PH on October 30, 2024, 03:19:56 PM: Quote from: mickeg on October 30, 2024, 11:07:13 AM
So, I will just continue to put up with the inconvenience of muscle powered pumps.
Last year I managed 12 punctures, thankfully just the one so far this year, but on much reduced mileage. Even last year I didn't consider the pumping bit of the job any great inconvenience. So, although interested in gadgets I can't see me getting a elec tyre pump anytime soon. If I was still commuting, I'd be more likely to consider it. On my urban riding, I only carry a seal and inflate aerosol (Untested)
Quote
I generally try to avoid buying things that have a USB rechargeable non-replaceable battery. If it took AA batteries, I would be more interested.
Lithium batteries have become much better at managing their discharge, I've seen figures of 2% a month for three, then 1% a month after, assuming 100% to start with. I recently found a small head torch that had been lost for over a year (In the wheelbuilding toolbox obviously ::)) I thought it would be flat, but it ran on high beam for an hour, it only runs for two from fully charged.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: WorldTourer on October 30, 2024, 05:38:15 PM: Quote from: mickeg on October 30, 2024, 11:07:13 AM
I average one puncture a year, if I was going to rely an an electric pump I would probably find
I generally try to avoid buying things that have a USB rechargeable non-replaceable battery. If it took AA batteries, I would be more interested.

Tourers today are usually packing USB powerbanks with large capacities. In my interaction with fellow cyclists on routes like the Baja Divide or the Pamirs, where charging opportunities are rare and possibly expensive, two 24,000 mAh powerbanks was a popular solution for being able to charge phones, GPS units, Bluetooth speakers, etc. for well over a week. Therefore, one’s electric pump or other USB devices can be charged from the powerbank. I wonder if any air pumps can draw sufficient power from the USB input directly without having to fill the internal battery first.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: Andyb1 on October 30, 2024, 05:46:27 PM: This thread reminded me to do a little job that I had forgotten about - I just cut off the upper pump bracket from the frame of my Sherpa. I always worried that it was a nice little hook that might snag on something. When I first had the bike I could not find a pump of the correct length to fit and anyway I prefer carrying a pump safely hidden away in a bag. I seem to remember destroying a pump in the distant past when it unclipped itself from the frame.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: mickeg on October 31, 2024, 01:42:07 PM: If you decide to buy a large powerbank for touring, I do not know if this is a global restriction or only USA. But in USA, powerbanks larger than 100 watt hour capacity are banned from passenger aircraft.

The 24 amp hour capacity mentioned above should be acceptable but that would be close to the upper limit. That said, it is rare to see ones for sale over 100 watt hours.

For touring I have been using a 44 watt hour capacity one for the past half decade. I keep it charged with my dynohub and Cycle2Charge charger. But I am quite frugal with my power usage, phone off unless I am using it, etc.

I recently bought a Anker powerbank that is 20 amp hour rated, 72 watt hours.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: mickeg on October 31, 2024, 02:07:53 PM: Quote from: JohnR on October 30, 2024, 02:12:48 PM
I once had a valve core unscrew when I was removing a Lezne pump hose. Since then each of my bikes has one of these fitted on one of the wheels to make it more convenient for checking if the cores are tight https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203317910489 .

I will be ordering some of those within a few days. Thanks. Brilliant idea.

I have a Shrader to Presta adapter on my rear wheel with a Shrader cap on it on most of my bikes. Now I know what will go on the front wheel for valve cap.
Title: Re: Pump placement
Post by: francy661 on December 28, 2024, 02:01:23 AM: Attaching the pump to the back of the seat tube is definitely a good spot to save some space. I've seen other Nomad riders put the pump in similar spots, just be sure it doesn't interfere with the rear guard or the frame. Some also attach the pump to the top tube using a frame strap or on the downtube if there's room. If you can, try to find a compact holder to keep it tight and secure.