Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Wheels, Tyres and Brakes => Topic started by: KDean on May 31, 2023, 09:09:46 AM
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If running tubes is there any point in getting the folding version of the same tyre ?
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Minor differences, weight, possibly stiffer sidewalls. You do need to be sure they are the same tyre, the name isn't always a reliable indicator, some Schwalbe models have different features and/or compounds between folding and rigid, the Mondial for example.
I have a few of wire bead tyres still in use, I'm in no hurry to change them, but when I am looking for tyres, the better ones do seem to be more likely to be folding.
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Look at the tire specifications in more detail. With Schwalbe and possibly other brands, the folding tire might have other characteristics like rubber compounds, threads per inch, etc.
Example, look at the section on ratings on the Mondial page, they rate the two differently.
https://www.schwalbetires.com/Marathon-Mondial-11100308
The Dureme tire used to be available as both folding and wire bead, the folding version had much more flexible sidewalls and less rolling resistance. And later they added a third version, a folding version that was labeled "Tandem Ready" that had much more rolling resistance than the other folding version.
The Vittoria Randonneur tire is known to have high rolling resistance, but I am running the Pro (folding) version (discontinued) on my rando bike, the folding version had more threads per inch and I am pretty happy with it.
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A folding tyre is cheaper to post, easier to store and compact enough to take on tour as a spare if going to remote places.
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flip , I've just ordered wired Mondials .
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A folding tyre is cheaper to post, easier to store and compact enough to take on tour as a spare if going to remote places.
And I'd add to that, folders are vastly easier to remove & reinstall. I don't have any wired tires; if I did, the arthritis in my thumbs would make them nearly impossible to remove. (That may be an issue mainly for those of us into their eighth decade. ;))
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And I'd add to that, folders are vastly easier to remove & reinstall.
I generally agree, though sometimes new folders straight out the packet drive me nuts, flopping all over the place, at least wired tyres hold their shape.
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I’ve got some Duremes on atm. They were hard work getting on and getting seated correctly.
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I have had some folding tires that had supple sidewalls that I almost had trouble getting to stay on a rim long enough for me to start getting air into them. I have blown a tube or two from trying to start airing up a tire with an overly flexible bead.
Last year there was a kid on the side of a bike path, I saw him there working on his bike while I was out for an exercise loop. About 10 or 15 minutes later on my return, he was still there. I stopped to see if he needed help. He did not have strong enough hands to break the bead off of the shelf on his tubeless rim. He had tubes, but the tires and rim were tubeless specification, the tire really wanted to stay on that rim.
I had one tire several years ago sold as a tubeless ready tire, and that tire I had trouble getting it onto my rim. I thought I was going to break a tire lever, fortunately did not as I was about 35 miles from home. In the future, I plan to look for tires that specifically are not sold as tubeless since I am sticking with tubes.
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And I'd add to that, folders are vastly easier to remove & reinstall.
I generally agree, though sometimes new folders straight out the packet drive me nuts, flopping all over the place, at least wired tyres hold their shape.
Last night I was fitting a new Vittoria mezcal tyre to my surly Ogre & it wouldn't have happened with out my compressor .
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I did see a useful video not so long ago re fitting tyres. The presenter used a strap ( bit like one from a Carradice bag) to ‘tie’ the tyre to the wheel; holding it in a place whilst using his hands to get the rest on.
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I did see a useful video not so long ago re fitting tyres. The presenter used a strap ( bit like one from a Carradice bag) to ‘tie’ the tyre to the wheel; holding it in a place whilst using his hands to get the rest on.
Yes, I discovered that tip a while back.
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Likewise -- I use one of my trusty QR rubber ties.
(After I discovered them abut 25-30 years ago, I asked myself, "How did I ever manage life without these?" ;) )
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I've used straps and then velcro cable ties until I discovered the Schwalbe tyre levers which can be clipped on a rim to hold a partly fitted tyre in place while struggling with the rest. Highly recommended.
Edit: I've attached a photo showing it in action.
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I've used straps and then velcro cable ties until I discovered the Schwalbe tyre levers which can be clipped on a rim to hold a partly fitted tyre in place while struggling with the rest. Highly recommended.
I have a set of those and never realised that was a feature, if I could remember where they were I'd give it a try. Luckily all my tyres come off and refit roadside fairly easily and at home I'll reach for some toe straps if new ones are proving troublesome.
The video in4 might be thinking of could be this one for the dreaded Marathon Plus, I offer my own advice for dealing with those, involving a bin and ordering some better tyres...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUFVrl0UT4
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The video in4 might be thinking of could be this one for the dreaded Marathon Plus, I offer my own advice for dealing with those, involving a bin and ordering some better tyres...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUFVrl0UT4
I also recall finding that video when wrestling with Marathons of some flavour. I assume the theory is that once they are on then there should need to remove them by the side of the road to fix a puncture.
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I also recall finding that video when wrestling with Marathons of some flavour. I assume the theory is that once they are on then there should be no need to remove them by the side of the road to fix a puncture.
That's the general idea of using Marathon Plus.
I prefer putting up with the occasional puncture (not very frequent with 50x559 Supremes or Duremes) rather than having the slight loss of comfort and the slightly greater loss of responsiveness from Marathon Plus in the same size.
The 700C (28x622) old generation Marathon Plus I had on my former visitor bikes were really horrible, almost like riding on solid tyres, not surprising considering the reduced air space inside due to the thick walls and tread.
But I have 50x559 Marathon Plus on the rear wheels of the current two visitor bikes, as I don't want inexperienced riders messing with the Nexus hub gear change settings. As the distances on the island where I keep these bikes are short, the performance hit of Marathon Plus isn't significant.
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I prefer putting up with the occasional puncture (not very frequent with 50x559 Supremes or Duremes) rather than having the slight loss of comfort and the slightly greater loss of responsiveness from Marathon Plus in the same size.
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That is my thinking too. I have never owned one of the Marathon Plus series. I average one puncture a year.
I did a short tour this past April. About 380 miles (~610 km), I had no punctures. My touring partner used Marathon Plus Tour tires, and he added tire liners to them to make sure. Somehow his rear tire liner caused a flat.
I had a Hutchinson Globetrotter (discontinued) rear tire, and up front a Marathon XR (discontinued). Both had some flat protection, but not as much as the plus tires. No problems at all.
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I assume the theory is that once they are on then there should need to remove them by the side of the road to fix a puncture.
I've only had one set of Marathon Plus, on my Raven about twenty years ago, fitted for a 36 mile a day commute, much of it along urban cycle paths, in the dark. They never punctured, they were replaced when the rear wore out and the commute had come to an end. I replaced them with something that rode better and it wasn't until I did so that the realisation of how much I dislike riding them really struck me, I'm scarred for life. OTOH, I regularly ride with someone who uses them for everything, day rides, touring, Audax, commuting... so opinions do differ!
Back to tight tyres, they do ease off with use and I have a feeling wired ones more so than folding. I had some rigid Marathon Racers that were a real struggle to fit, I dreaded a puncture but when the first happened, after several hundred miles, I had no problem removing or refitting. I think it's some kind of settling in, though I offer no theory about how that physically happens.