Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Muppets Threads! (And Anything Else) => Topic started by: ourclarioncall on March 16, 2023, 03:00:04 PM
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Does anyone keep their bike inside their tent with them at night ?
I’m considering this as an option . Possibly just a psychological thing (not that it would make anything safer) but I think I would like all my stuff indoors next to me . Also less stuff to draw attention to or attract thieves.
I would be just camping on my own so wonder how big a tent I would need. I’m 6 foot ish , 17 stone. I sleep on a medium sized sleeping mat.
I’d like to get a high quality tent too that is bombproof
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Whoosh. This is a bigger topic than one might think at first blush, as there is a lot to consider.
I'll boil it down to the essentials.
Over the last 45 years, I've tested a lot of outdoors equipment for makers, many products in the prototype stage as I did catalog product shoots and found the flaws in the field the designers missed in the studio. Those nascent designs often had severe flaws and I got cold, wet, hungry, or sometimes all three when they failed so I always took reliable, proven gear as a backup.
One of the tent designs that seems evergreen in the touring world is the bike-parking tent. The idea seems so logical for all the reasons you cite but the practicalities seem to always outweigh (often literally) the benefits. They're larger than you really need to house only yourself and the rest of your gear apart from the bike. They are heavier due to the extra material. They generally catch more wind and then there's the conundrum of parking the bike securely upright (or fully inverted for those designs that use the bike's upended wheels as a structural support) and how to keep the rest of the tent interior clean and dry after you wheel a very road-dirty and wet bicycle into it. An added challenge with most designs is avoiding the bike as you enter and exit.
I've tried the gamut, from the MSR Ghisallo to a Tatonka Alaska 3 and a whole variety of ultralight tarplike structures. With the exception of the Tatonka Alaska -- which happens to be an expedition-class tunnel tent good for holding a lot of gear, all the bike-specific shelters I tested made it about a year on the market before leaving. The Ghisalo was nice, light, slept 1 person, but...the wall between the occupant and the bike was subject to snagging and tearing, the compartment was not long enough to hold many long-wheelbase touring bikes with racks fitted, and the one I had failed to support the bike one windy night, when it came crashing down on me. For photos, see...
https://www.rei.com/product/779410/mountain-hardwear-ghisallo-1-tent
The tarps stretched over overturned bikes were great in concept but not execution, as dirty water from the bike's wheels and oily drivetrain leaked onto my sleeping bag and the greatest headroom was over the wheels, leaving a very low "shed" for me to sleep under. Here is a good, well-developed example of the type I have not tried, so cannot speak about firsthand...
https://www.cyclon.cc/?fbclid=IwAR3YfW8FhHhvDZ028rnUhS-kfwAgBb2H-oceZ-c8ekaRieGJyUSXoxjjWhI
There is not a lot of room inside for the occupant.
The most successful version I tried belonged to my Dutch touring buddy when we toured the NL and BE together in 2008. He wanted security for his bike and all his gear and lots of room to stretch out. You can see it here...
https://www.tatonka.com/en/product/alaska-3-235-pu/
It ticks all your boxes for space and sturdiness, but is heavy and -- measuring 4.7m/15.4ft plus guylines! -- it takes up as much space as a car when looking for a camping pitch. It weighs 4.5kg/10lb dry but when it gets wet, it weighs even more as it did during our tours when it rained nearly every day and night. It packs big, too. Still, he was very pleased with it and there was a lot of space inside. We slept side-by-side as two in the three-person capacity rear portion, the door screened against ticks. The entire front vestibule was devoted to gear storage and he did indeed park his inside, using the rear kickstand for support. He rode a fairly small frame; I don't think it would have been tall or long enough to hold my own bicycle. The vestibule was floorless, which solved the problem of dirty bike water and he had the option of flooring it with the tarp he brought as well. A great tent but a bit "much" for 1-2 person cycle-touring. He enjoyed "lux camping" and when he came to visit me here in America for a tandem tour, the big bike with trailer weighed 272kg/600lb with us on it; my self-made trailer we towed weighed 57kg/127lb alone, filled with such luxuries as the Dutch tanker's boots he preferred to hike in...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanker_boot
Needless to day, these were adventures far from the lightweight or ultralight gear I prefer, but still a lot of fun in their own way.
The point of all the above is to say a tent shared with a bike comes with a lot of compromises and the end result has never been as good for me as the one-person tents I prefer for quick and easy pitching and small footprints, the bike securely locked outside leaning on its Click-Stand and armed with a remote-controlled motion-detector to alert me to any theft attempt (or more commonly, to porcupines with a taste for sweat-soaked Brooks leather saddles!).
I've attached a photo I took one morning as we dried our wet gear out using the guys as clotheslines.
Best, Dan
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A variation on Dan's reply:
On tours when I'm camping for any length of time, I have usually used a quality lightweight tarp, approx 6' x 9' (weight ~400 gms with pegs & extra guylines). For two persons or two tents, I have used a larger tarp, about 9' x 12'.
I learned about tarps from canoe-camping, where they're invaluable for weather protection, esp when cooking a distance away from the tent(s). (On account of the bears, eh?)
For cycle-touring, I usually rig the tarp beside and partly over the tent, and I use the bike as a prop. The bike can be parallel to the tent, or at 90º to one end of it. (A dual-entry tent design is handy, obviously.)
Whether & how I secure the bike depends on where I am camping. (Longer discussion.)
This arrangement lets me be sure I can cook supper or breakfast in a dry spot, with the stove on the ground and not threatening tent or tarp. (I don't usually go touring in bear country.)
Hope that's helpful,
John
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Nor intended as endorsements, just rounding out the field with more offerings for your consideration. Alas, most of these seem to have gone the way of so many others and are listed as "currently unavailable"...
https://gearjunkie.com/camping/nsr-bicycle-tour-camping-tent-review
https://www.topeak.com/storage/app/media/download/2017-catalogue/2b_PROT_topeak_2017_tent_0117.pdf
https://www.amazon.com/Topeak-Bikamper-One-Person-Bicycling-Tent/dp/B000FIE3NW/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
https://bicycletouringpro.com/upon-nova-bike-tent-review/
https://bikepacking.com/plog/set-up-a-tarp-using-your-bike/
https://www.core77.com/posts/116330/Yea-or-Nay-A-Tent-That-Incorporates-Your-Bike-in-the-Support-Structure
https://ultimatedirection.com/bike-tarp-conversion-kit/
https://abelbrown.com/products/nomad-4-tent
https://www.reddit.com/r/bikepacking/comments/ooag5o/bikepacking_without_a_tent_but_without/
https://imgur.com/a/AavGJ
https://bicycletouringpro.com/mehler-adventure-trans-alp-bicycle-tent/
https://newatlas.com/outdoors/moruta-hogar-2p-bicycle-tent/
If weight were no problem and you had a motorcycle...
https://redverz.com/atacama/
Best, Dan.
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Wow, thanks Dan, loads of great info and links . Lots of food for thought there
No you’ve got me wanting to ask about good small minimalist tents for 1 person
I like the idea of having a low stealthy tent , maybe dark or camouflage
And maybe laying the bike on its side next to tent with a camouflage cover over the top (not sure if you get them
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A variation on Dan's reply:
On tours when I'm camping for any length of time, I have usually used a quality lightweight tarp, approx 6' x 9' (weight ~400 gms with pegs & extra guylines). For two persons or two tents, I have used a larger tarp, about 9' x 12'.
I learned about tarps from canoe-camping, where they're invaluable for weather protection, esp when cooking a distance away from the tent(s). (On account of the bears, eh?)
For cycle-touring, I usually rig the tarp beside and partly over the tent, and I use the bike as a prop. The bike can be parallel to the tent, or at 90º to one end of it. (A dual-entry tent design is handy, obviously.)
Whether & how I secure the bike depends on where I am camping. (Longer discussion.)
This arrangement lets me be sure I can cook supper or breakfast in a dry spot, with the stove on the ground and not threatening tent or tarp. (I don't usually go touring in bear country.)
Hope that's helpful,
John
Thanks John
So the bike acts as the “tent poles” as it were
Yeah that could be handy to hold your bike from sight somewhat and have a wee shelter for safe cooking or just from weather
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Does anyone keep their bike inside their tent with them at night
Only on the few occasions I have camped with a Brompton folder.
Otherwise I lock the bike to something and cover the Brooks saddle with something waterproof, usually a plastic bag with a bit of nylon cord to draw in the handles and fasten it to the seat post to stop it blowing away in a gale.
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That was another thought
If the bike is outside , and padlocked , but not padlocked to anything. No tree , no gate etc .
Still a bit risky as folk could just pick up your bike and walk even tho it is locked through the frame to the wheel
Tie a bit of string to the bike and then onto your big toe
I know you get alarms but I’m just not sure I like the idea
Could maybe cause a bad reaction from a thief if his adrenaline starts pumping from the surprise and the potential attack of the guy unzipping his tent to see what’s going on
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I use a Brooks leather saddle. So I use a good waterproof saddle cover over the saddle every night in case of heavy dew or rain.
I use a two person tent that I can take my panniers inside the tent with me, some overflow in the tent vestibule.
A touring bike is supposed to get wet in the rain.
I always stay at developed campgrounds. Usually there is a picnic table available that I can lock my bike to.
I have photos from two different trips, thus two different photos.
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You said you wanted a minimalist one person tent. I bought a small one on Amazon for backpacking. When I am carrying the tent on my back, no wheels involved, that is when weight gets important.
Photo is the one I bought and used for two weeks this past September. The tent does not come with a pole, the theory is you use a trekking pole instead, it is designed for backpacking and most backpackers carry trekking poles.
From Amazon, there are several manufacturers, but the model name is Lanshan 1. https://www.amazon.com/MIER-Ultralight-3-Season-Backpacking-1-Person/dp/B07MCT6QSM/
I am in USA, thus used the USA Amazon site. I have no clue if they sell them in the UK or not.
There also are some that say they are Pro version. Mine is not the Pro version, mine has a separate netting tent with a tent fly. Just barely big enough for one person and not much gear. Hard to get more minimalist than this.
I saw reviews that said that where there are two guy lines attached to the rain fly, water can come in. I seam sealed those spots before I used it the first time.
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you’ve got me wanting to ask about good small minimalist tents for 1 person
I have a very good quality, very good condition Tarptent Moment DW one-person tent available for sale any time from now.
Price will be CDN$100. Cost me USD 285 in 2015. I've used it for cycle-touring and paddling in summers 2015 through 2019, and only a couple of times since then. I can find a photo and post, but none pop up right now.
Tent is light (36 to 48 oz, depending on spec) and spacious.
Don't know what the shipping to UK would cost.
I also have a Revelate Sweetroll (medium) handlebar-mounted bikepacking bag. Little used, also CDN$100, original cost (2021) $140.
Reason for sale: surplus to requirements. Please PM me if you're interested, and I can supply photos, etc.
Cheers, John
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you’ve got me wanting to ask about good small minimalist tents for 1 person
I have a very good quality, very good condition Tarptent Moment DW one-person tent available for sale any time from now.
Price will be CDN$100. Cost me USD 285 in 2015. ...
That is a nice looking tent. Unfortunately, I have five 1-person tents already, a sixth would make my storage even more crowded. That is a better deal than the Amazon one that I cited.
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I've never felt any need to put a bike in a tent. Although that means it's usually in sight, i don't think it's very secure. What do you do when you pop to the shower or anywhere else you're not taking the bike? I try and find somewhere near the tent to lock it, then forget it, if that really isn't an option, I thread a guy through the wheel and lock it to itself.
We've done security before and we all have to find the level we're content to accept, I consider a campsite, whether commercial or off-site, a low risk situation.
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If you are really nervous about theft, get a good lock. And also store your front wheel inside the tent or tent vestibule, not many thieves want to steal a bike missing a wheel.
A friend of mine was quite nervous about theft on our last bike tour, his chain weighed a tonne. See photo.
My next trip, I am taking my titanium bike, I plan to use my Bordo 6100 and also a good cable. Yes, there are better locks than the Bordo 6100, but I prefer a combination over key and this is better than the ones I have used in the past. My titanium bike is not my most expensive bike, but it looks like my most expensive bike, thus need a good lock. The cable I bring will be a short one, but long enough to get around a small tree or picnic table bench, and maybe also the front wheel.
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I have five 1-person tents already, a sixth would make my storage even more crowded.
Wow! George, that's verging on the eccentric, and not the BB variant. ;)
The Tarptent has been very kind to me over the years, but beset by advancing age and creaky hips (the latter nearly fixed, the former immutable) I decided to invest in a 2-person Nemo Dragonfly. It's not really a 2-person tent by my reckoning, but it's very spacious and just 3 oz heavier than the Tarptent. Even though it was discounted as last year's stock, it still set me back nearly Cdn$600. Sign of the times, eh?
Cheers, John
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I have five 1-person tents already, a sixth would make my storage even more crowded.
Wow! George, that's verging on the eccentric, and not the BB variant. ;)
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My first solo tent, bought it in the 90s. Might have only used it for three trips that I can remember. Bought it new. It was not a bad tent, but I was still about 15 years short of retirement, so did not use it much. And by today standards, too heavy.
The second and third ones, REI (the USA equivalent to what you used to have in MEC) occasionally had Scratch and Dent sales of returned and damaged items. And occasionally they had GREAT deals. I picked up a tent there for between 10 and 20 percent of original price, and at that price decided that I could not go wrong. It did not include the optional foot print, but the next time they had a Scratch and Dent sale, I looked in the tent bin to see if they had the foot print. And they did, and it was bundled with another of the same tent for about the same price. It was cheaper than a replacement pole set, so got it too. I think I got these about 12 or 14 years ago. Used one for maybe a total of five weeks. Plus loaned one out for a few more weeks. Used these for a few bike tours, but it really lacked interior space and the vestibule was too small for a bike trip. Subsequent bike tours were with a two person (rated) tent.
Fourth, I think I bought it about six years ago, weird tent, used it for a two week backpacking trip, no specific flaws, but I just never really got used to it. Too small for a bike trip.
The fifth one, that is the one I got from Amazon that I cited above. A tiny ultra light trekking pole tent, but I cut a pole to use with it so that I did not have to adjust the length of a trekking pole for it every time. It is too small to bring my backpack (on a backpacking trip) inside to pack up the pack, so one morning with a steady rain I had to pack up my backpack outside in the rain, everything got wet. So, my current plan is to use this tent on backpacking trips where the forecast is for dry weather, something else that is more roomy for wet weather.
Starting about nine years ago, my bike tours are with a two person tent, or that is the rating. Two people in the tent that I use would become enemies for life. It is the one in the 3rd and 4th photos in my above post with four photos. Single wall tent so the ceiling gets covered in condensation, but with a double A frame shape, I can sleep in the middle where the peak height is enough that I do not rub on the ceiling. That is why I say it would be a problem for two people, they would be rubbing on the ceiling and getting wet with condensation. It is a trekking pole style tent, I cut tent poles to use with it so I do not need to carry trekking poles on a bike trip, I cut them short enough when folded to fit in a front pannier. Very light and a spacious vestibule. Only down side is that it is not self supporting, so when I was camped on a platform, I had to jam twigs in between the planks to substitute for stakes. First attached photo, the tan and orange tent on the left. This photo was at a state park in Florida Keys in a mangrove forest where they had hike in campsites on platforms. Vestibule is spacious enough that I feel safe in heating water inside the vestibule on a butane (but not on a liquid fuel) stove for coffee in the morning. Second photo is the vestibule, I was in the tent body when i took the photo, this photo was when I was on PEI. The gold pole in the center of the photo is the pole I cut for it to avoid having to carry trekking poles on a bike. It had been raining for a full day when I got to the campsite, there was some newsprint in a recycle bin that I grabbed to put on the muddy ground in the vestibule to keep my gear out of the mud. I had a pot on a butane stove in that photo and my coffee mug is full, so I must have just finished heating water. This is a Big Agnes Scout Plus, which is now out of production. They made three different tents in the Scout series, this is the middle sized one. With the poles I cut for it and a piece of plastic for ground sheet, a few extra bigger stakes, weighs 1565 grams. Has enough room inside for all four panniers, handlebar bag and me. I have packed up all my gear inside on a rainy morning, so the last thing I needed to pack is my tent. I expect to be sleeping in this tent for at least two weeks next month.
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Reminded of this quote:
“We are more often frightened than hurt; and we suffer more in imagination than in reality.” — Seneca
We spend so much time worried about how bad things are going to be, that we actually torture ourselves more than the thing we’re worried about ever could (that is, if it happens at all).
While it’s too facile to say don’t worry, it is important to put your worries in perspective. Don’t let your worries grow out of proportion to what might actually happen. Don’t let imagination overtake reality. Don’t conflate worrying with prevention or preparation.
And my ol' friend Mohamed told me:
Have faith ................... but don't forget to tie up your camel.
Best
Matt
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George, that's brilliant!
My history is kinda shabby and limited by comparison. When I bought my Tarptent in 2015, I figured it was a barely-justifiable Indulgence for Specialized Use. (For 50-some years of camping before that, I'd managed with 2-person tents of varying quality & effectiveness.)
Then, I realized that the Tarptent was a creation on a whole other level, an altogether excellent design: light, durable, spacious, reasonably priced, quick to erect, well-ventilated, etc., etc.
I had only one night when it didn't meet its established standards of excellence: in Oct '21, I did an overnight in the Ottawa Valley, and got drenched with humidity. But that was my error, a classic of false economy: I chose not to take the optional end-to-end crossing pole, all 12 ounces of it. It was only one night, I figured, so I left it behind. Of course, without the tautness and extra clearance betw fly and mesh inner which the crossing pole provides, the 98% humidity--unexpected in October, but Sod's Law commanded its appearance--quickly sagged fly to mesh inner, with all the predictable consequences.
There was one other slight flaw in the design: The peak height of the tent (about 39-40") is at the beltline. Conversely, my Nemo Dragonfly has a slightly higher peak (41"); but critically, it's directly over my head.
Helluva good tent nevertheless, and I feel slightly disloyal for selling it. But, these things are made to be used, right?
Cheers, John
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Helluva good tent nevertheless, and I feel slightly disloyal for selling it. But, these things are made to be used, right?
Cheers, John
I am usually too slow to sell things that should have been sold long ago. But that is my problem. I have several other tents that I am sure I will never use again, but they no longer are desirable to a buyer, as they are too heavy or now are an outmoded design. I suspect some day I will get frustrated with too much stuff and just haul it all off to a charity.
My Big Agnes tent that I now used for bike touring replaced an older and heavier one, but I did not elaborate there because the topic was 1 person tents.
That older and heavier 2 person tent is still a good tent and I like it, so that continues to get used for canoe trips where weight is much less important. Adding several more pounds to my canoe won't slow it down in any noticeable amount, I am not paddling up hills, etc. That is also the tent I brought to Iceland, it is a great tent, but I decided while in Iceland that it is just too heavy and bulky for a bike trip, thus replaced it with the Big Agnes for biking after that trip. Photo attached from my Boundary Waters Canoe Area trip this past October.
I am not sure if what we call a canoe in N America is called the same thing in UK, so added a photo of my canoe (second photo), but I should clarify that I use a kayak paddle in a solo canoe, there is only one seat in the center so it is a solo, not a tandem canoe. My kayak was made by Valley Canoe in UK, thus I thought some clarification may be needed, third photo is my kayak. (Valley might have gone out of business, not sure if they still exist.) I am not sure if what we call a kayak in N America is called a kayak or a canoe in UK.
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My ME Dragonfly 2 XT. The extension is great for panniers and it’s a solid tent but the wrong side of 2kg and not the quickest to erect, even after lots of use.
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Thanks for those comments, George and Ian. A few observations from my end about 2-person tents:
1) The line betw one- and two-person tents isn't nicely fixed, and what different people want varies too. I've used a 2-p tent in various configurations, and found it to be very good indeed, not least 'cos of its versatility. See comments & photos below on the MSR Hubba-Hubba, and on my current Nemo Dragonfly.
2) The MSR Hubba-Hubba, then: I bought an MSR H-H in 2009, and kept it until 2018. I used it in all 3 seasons for canoeing in Canada, for motorcycle touring in the US & Canada, and for cycling-touring in both Canada and Europe. I bought mine from MEC, cost about Cdn$300 in 2009. This tent is still on the market, though it now costs, er, $700.
Dimensionally, it is a full 2-P tent, unlike my Nemo Dragonfly, which is more like a 1.5-P. I used it on cycling tours and canoeing trips with our daughter, who's a strong sturdy lass, and it was big enough for us. The current H-H is advertised as weighing 3lb 4oz, a pound-plus lighter than my older generation model. Both vestibules are a good size.
My only complaint about the H-H was that its ventilation was not good enough when both vestibules were closed. I understand that MSR has added vents into the fly in recent years.
Also, I often used the H-H with a tarp, and that pretty much fixed the ventilation problem, allowing me to keep at least one vestibule half-open.
And, on my Amsterdam-to-Vienna Rhine/Danube tour in 2012, I took only the fly (no bugs! :) ), and of course it was hugely spacious, light, and well-ventilated.
See photos below of the H-H in various configurations & settings. Photos 1 & 2 are taken on cycle tours. The first is in Ontario, showing full tent with tarp & my Eclipse ti-framed light tourer. The second shows the tent as fly only. This was taken a few days' ride west of Vienna on the Danube.
For me, the Nemo Dragonfly is a very spacious one-person tent. For comments and photos, see "Rides of 2022" in the forum, Reply #42, here: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14555.30 (http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14555.30)
2) Canoeing: In the early 1990s, when our kids were younger, I bought my first canoe for camping with them. It was a 17' fibreglass item from Ottawa Valley Canoe, and at 36" beam amidships, was hugely spacious and very stable. It also weighed 56 lbs, so was a bit of load on portages. But, it carried 2 adults and two kids, plus gear & food. Tents in those days were "family" variants, spacious, bulky, and heavy.
In the late 1990s, I sold that to friends as a boat for their cottage, and treated myself to a kevlar 16' "Trillium", also designed and made by OVC. It cost me $1800, quite a bit, but was a lovely boat: light, stable, responsive, and durable. It weighed 35lbs -- I could pick it up with one hand, and hoisting it onto my shoulders was dead simple. The bow seat can slide back and forth, so that the bow paddler could set it where s/he is most comfortable.
Photos 3 & 4 below are taken from a canoeing trip in the Wildlife Reserve de la Vérendrye in West Qué, a 3-hour drive from our house in Ottawa. #3 shows the mesh inner of the H-H. If memory serves, I didn't use the fly that night, as it was hot and muggy with little wind. #4 is a typical mid-day break, my buddy stretched out in the shade, my Trillium bobbing beside the rocky shelf.
la Vérendrye (named after the 17th-century coureur de bois/fur trader/route-mapper for the country west of Superior) is a paradise, with some 1400 kms of canoe routes. I spent a lot of time there between the late 1990s and about 2015. One day, I met a scoutmaster from Pennsylvania, towing a trailer with half-a-dozen canoes on it. I said to him, "You're a long way from home." He said, "There's nowhere like this in the lower 48. I'm here with 12 scouts for a two-week trip."
In 2018, I gave my Trillium to a Brazilian-Canadian friend who emigrated to Canada in 2008. He and his wife now have two youngsters, and they all looove camping and paddling. So, I gave them my boat, the only condition being that I can join them now and then when my repaired hips allow. And, last year I sold them my trusty H-H for $100.
Cheers, J.