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Community => Cycle Tours => Topic started by: ourclarioncall on February 18, 2023, 10:38:30 PM

Title: John o groats route help
Post by: ourclarioncall on February 18, 2023, 10:38:30 PM: Think of doing a solo ride from near Aberdeen up to John o groats

I’m fat , unfit , never done a long distance ride like this

I hate cars /lorry’s flying past me constantly and getting close to me so not keen on main roads

Thinking about a route . Safety first.

Would possibly ride through the night to avoid traffic and use some or a lot of main roads.

Also thought about getting a train to Inverness and riding from there up

I think I’m probably biting off more than I can chew but that’s my style

I also need to think about building up my fitness and increasing time on bike

Any input appreciated
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on February 18, 2023, 11:47:38 PM: Keep me in the loop. It's a ride I've thought about.

Camping or hotel/ hostel?

I cycled down from Scrabster to ullapool a few years ago. Via Lairg.

Best

Matt
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: PH on February 19, 2023, 07:05:18 AM: You could follow NCN 1 all the way, that's all on quiet roads.
I've only done the section North of Inverness, it's a lovely ride, but fairly hilly in places, not something I'd choose if I was looking to match low fitness.
Having said that - My first cycle tour was the NCN C2C and I had zero fitness, the distance equalled the cycling I'd done in the year before, I didn't do much pedaling, walked up every hill and freewheeled down the other side, still had a great time!
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: JohnR on February 19, 2023, 08:40:07 AM: My supported LEJOG broadly followed NCN 1 north of Inverness but made two variations. We went through Muir of Ord and Dingwall but instead of going through Alness took the B9176 northwards to Bonar Bridge. This reduces the distance but goes over a hill (and has some excellent views, weather permitting). My route used the A873 / A871(very quiet roads) north of Altnaharra.

I found the Scottish hills to be less challenging than the English hills because, while they can be long, they are rarely very steep. The only nasty hill between Lairg and Bettyhill is the final climb to Bettyhill. An unfavourable wind is a bigger hazard as it's an open road. Bettyhill to JoG includes a lot of shorter hills, not helped on my ride by a modest headwind.

Planning this trip requires figuring out how many miles per day you can pedal (which will depend on what you plan to carry) and then identifying possible stopping places. If using hotels then you'll need to book well in advance.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: mickeg on February 19, 2023, 01:55:07 PM: If your fitness is in doubt, get a heart rate monitor.

I am not going to tell you what number you should use for maximum beats per minute, perhaps ask your physician?

When you start climbing a hill, frequently look at your monitor, and when the number gets up to where you do not like to see it, stop. I then get off the bike and keep pushing up the hill walking, but at a slower pace so my heart rate drops. Before I even left home, I knew that I would have to go up the hill in the first photo. And months before I got to this hill, at a 13 percent grade I knew that I would walk up that hill.

I do not have heart problems, but I am 69 and do not want to develop any heart problems so I am keeping my heart rate in a reasonable range when I am exerting myself.

I am trying to get in shape right now for a bike tour in April and also a 200k brevet at start of April. I am going to the gym three times a weeks. Besides some strength exercises, I also spend an hour on either the stair-master or on an exercise bike. I do not know about conditions where you are, but where I am, we had snow storm about three days ago, and another scheduled for this coming Thur, so I am doing what I can off of the bike to get ready.

I have never heard of anyone riding through the night to avoid traffic on a bike tour. I want to be as visible as possible to the car and truck drivers. That means high visibility clothing and a flasher on the bike. It is much harder to be that visible at night, a flashing light is attention getting but a driver can't get any depth perception on that and can't tell where you are. Lots of reflective clothing would be needed, and a driver that is half asleep in the middle of the night is not someone I would want coming towards me. Second photo, this was the worst visibility I have ever seen for a bike tour, I pulled over planning to wait for the fog to lift somewhat, but while there I saw that the few cars going past were going so slow that I decided to trust that my two rear flashers would alert drivers to my presence. So, I started riding again and the cars that came up behind me apparently did see my flashers as they slowed down.

On my last tour, I was in Canada (I live in USA), and was where you ride on the right side of the road. I started the trip with reflective stuff centered on my bike but later moved it to the left side of the bike, I think the car drivers started to give me more room that way when the reflective stuff was closer to them. See third photo, this was a rainy day so visibility was poor all day long. Not only does the rain impair visibility, but the car driver with a busted defroster and worn out wipers on the way home from a hard day at work is the one you have to worry about.

More recently, I have also bought a reflective belt with shoulder straps that I can wear over my rain jacket for more visibility, but have not used it yet. If you really want to ride at night, you should get some good reflective stuff. I assume for Audaxing you need reflective material for night riding, check those criteria and consider that a minimum.

When I go on a bike tour, I am there to see the sights, I do not ride in the dark as there are no sights to see.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: John Saxby on February 19, 2023, 03:27:34 PM: And it's worth remembering that George (mickeg) is showing photos from Nova Scotia (IIRC). "Nova Scotia" is, um, New Scotland, and there's a reason for that, beyond the hilly terrain and Gaelic names & music -- 'tis the weather, aye.

Invest in conspicuity -- being seen saves lives.

And, enjoy your journey!
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: navrig on February 19, 2023, 04:30:18 PM: I've lived in Aberdeen (3 years), Moray (3 years) and Inverness (12 years). I've cycled, to varying degrees, throughout these areas although generally not touring cycling. I am mostly a road rider venturing into touring.

Unless you have your heart set on John O'Groats I would suggest there alternative routes which will be more rewarding in terms of roads, views, towns etc.

Aberdeen to JOG is just short of 300 miles using a scenic, quieter road route. This takes you to Tongue and along the north coast. This limits your A9 exposure which is strongly recommended.

For about 300 miles you could do
Aberdeen - Strathcarron - Ullapool - Garve. From Garve you can get a train back to Inverness and then Aberdeen.

Both routes take you through Inverness for which you have a few options and, again, avoiding the A96 is a primary objective.

I'd consider going Aberdeen - Dufftown (over the Cabrach) - Elgin and then follow the country roads to Inverness.

In terms of getting started you really ought to get a bike which fits you and is suitable for carrying luggage. Then go out and try a 30 mile route (unloaded) to see how you feel. A bike computer will help with routing and, if you go down the HRM route, gathering some data about how your heart responds to the effort.

Good luck and remember to pace yourself. Getting ready from a standing start is about building hours in the saddle and toughening up your backside.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: mickeg on February 19, 2023, 04:31:35 PM: Quote from: John Saxby on February 19, 2023, 03:27:34 PM
And it's worth remembering that George (mickeg) is showing photos from Nova Scotia (IIRC). "Nova Scotia" is, um, New Scotland, ...

Thank you for the education, I did not know what Nova Scotia stood for.

Yes, all three photos were from that trip.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: navrig on February 19, 2023, 04:35:15 PM: I would not recommend riding at night. Whilst the traffic may be much less there will still be fishermen, fish lorries, Tesco lorries/vans running around the Highlands in the dark. Not to mention the tourists who have hired a motorhome and have no idea how to drive it safely.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on February 19, 2023, 05:33:45 PM: Quote from: navrig on February 19, 2023, 04:35:15 PM
I would not recommend riding at night. Whilst the traffic may be much less there will still be fishermen, fish lorries, Tesco lorries/vans running around the Highlands in the dark. Not to mention the tourists who have hired a motorhome and have no idea how to drive it safely.

Night riding:
I'll second and third that. I had missed it in your original post. Count me out for night time riding. Not sure what your reasoning is for non daylight riding?
But keep me up-dated on your plans.
How is your Thorn bike coming along? I think you had a few minor adjustments to do?

Camping or hostel/hotel. That can make quite a bit of difference re weight.

I camped when I did my Scottish end 2 end trip down from Muckle Flugga on Shetland to Mull of Galloway.
90 miles was my max distance for a day. Plenty of shorter days to smell the thistles. And I stopped off in Fort Bill to pop up Ben Nevis.

How long are you planning to be away? Bike up and train back?

Best

Matt
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: in4 on February 19, 2023, 06:06:47 PM: I did a night ride up over Swaledale as part of my C2C ride. Apart from it being a bit tough with a loaded tourer I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Whilst I was not bothered by traffic I needed very good lights and a high degree of concentration given the road conditions, sheep and unknown unknowns. The only strange bit was coming across 20 plus people sitting around an open fire engaging in some sort of quasi-religious ceremony. It was Swaledale though lol

For reasons already stated I’d not do a night ride on main roads either. Too risky for me.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: ourclarioncall on February 19, 2023, 07:04:30 PM: Thanks for feedback gentleman

Really appreciate it

I like night riding as I’ve done couple of longish rides through the night in the summertime and I loved it.

I like back roads but sometimes I feel they are potentially risky as they are narrower and sometimes have poor visibility on corners and I’m just waiting for that 18 year old kid and all his friends to fly round the corner in his dads sports cars at 80 mph and I’m hedges in with nowhere to dive for cover . Saying that , it sounds like not all back /side roads are equal and from what I’m hearing it makes daytime riding up the top middle of Scotland more worthy of consideration

I don’t like main roads but yet I do . Feel a bit safer and more roomy in some ways yet it begins to develop road rage in you when people repetitively come to close and you start losing your joy coz you get a bit edgy anticipating the next close call. Like Chinese water torture . You’ve also got the pressure of being assertive by taking the room you need to avoid drains /debris/potholes etc at at the side of the road without antagonising drivers who have issues with cyclists . Know wot I meen?

I remember a guy saying “don’t swim with sharks “

It’s true and it kind of put me off cycling on the road altogether

So generally riding at night on main roads is appealing as less traffic , better roads (well that’s debatable) and I feel better geographically speaking as I have more confidence knowing I’m on the right track and connecting from town to town along the coast

IF … hypothetically I rode through the night I would do al that I could do to be as visible as possible. Well, even if it’s daylight I would too . But I appreciate there’s still risks .

I’m also considering night riding along the remote roads too

I’m kinda under a bit of pressure to get up to groats and back so I don’t leave my wife with 5 kids for two long in her own

She will be driving up as our family have a special boat trip planned to the little island called stroma next to groats where they lived on it many decades ago.

So far I’ve plotted a route from Boddam to Elgin. Stop at an Indian buffet in new pitsligo. There is a travelodge hotel I can stay in that I can check in anytime and I don’t have to check out till 12pm. So I could leave about 4pm-6pm and use a portion of an old railway line to get going.

I would get 6 to 12 hours sleep in the hotel at Elgin and then I could ride through the day , but I’m quite intimidated by riding up and though Inverness to wherever I’m going next which I don’t know yet , whether that be day or night . If day then I need safer back roads , if night then I’d maybe go with main or a mixture .

Some hotels won’t let you check in late at night if I need to and there not much hotel chains like travelodge once you start getting up last Inverness . There is plenty places to stay if I ride in the day and check in early evening , but I doubt at 2am.

I’m thinking that once I’m loaded up on my bike that I’m going to average like 5 mph haha. I can do 10mph on a good day unloaded . If I’m doing 70 miles a day then that’s normally 7 hours riding . But I will need breaks . Plus if I’m slow then il double the time to 14 hours for 70 miles . I might need that , I might not , depending how tired I am and how many breaks I take . I guess that there will be plenty times il be flying down hills at high speed too. It’s quite hard to gauge time needed.

I’m probably biting off more than I can chew … but maybe not. Again I’ve got that time pressure thing . But you don’t really want to ride under pressure . Hence my other option was a train up to near Inverness and then ride from there up to groats .
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: mickeg on February 19, 2023, 08:29:04 PM: Quote from: ourclarioncall on February 19, 2023, 07:04:30 PM
...
So generally riding at night on main roads is appealing as less traffic , better roads (well that’s debatable) and ...

If you really meant to say that the roads are better at night, it is because you can't see how bad they are at that time of day.

Outside of UK, I have traveled a lot on back roads with minimal traffic. When I did my Iceland tour, I found that there was very little traffic before 9:30am on a lot of the backroads, I usually tried to start riding at 7 or 7:30 am to avoid much of the traffic. But I have been other places were back roads were quite busy before 7am with people driving to work.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: ourclarioncall on February 19, 2023, 10:06:55 PM: Quote from: mickeg on February 19, 2023, 08:29:04 PM
Quote from: ourclarioncall on February 19, 2023, 07:04:30 PM
...
So generally riding at night on main roads is appealing as less traffic , better roads (well that’s debatable) and ...

If you really meant to say that the roads are better at night, it is because you can't see how bad they are at that time of day.

Outside of UK, I have traveled a lot on back roads with minimal traffic. When I did my Iceland tour, I found that there was very little traffic before 9:30am on a lot of the backroads, I usually tried to start riding at 7 or 7:30 am to avoid much of the traffic. But I have been other places were back roads were quite busy before 7am with people driving to work.

Haha yeah. It’s like playing Mario Kart over here in the last month or two. My wife hates driving at night dodging pot holes . Worse when it’s rained as it’s harder to see them

I guess you’ve got to know the roads well and the area to make a judgement call on which time of day to ride safely . I’m pretty confident in my own local area , but that’s it
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: JohnR on February 20, 2023, 08:23:28 AM: I woud be very reluctant to cycle on unfamiliar roads at night. Even very good lights may struggle to highlight a pothole or a very sharp bend. I enjoy visiting Scotland (usually by car) because even the main roads (with a few exceptions) have limited traffic compared to further south. Which month are you planning to make the trip? Will it be outside the main tourist season?
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: PH on February 20, 2023, 09:55:07 AM: I absolutely love riding through the night, some of my favorite Audaxs have a late evening start and all the 300's & 400's include a large proportion of it. I don't in any way see it as an increased danger. When touring, I wouldn't set out with that intention, it just wouldn't fit with the aims for any tour, I'd be out on synch with everything else I wanted to do, everywhere would be shut when I wanted it open and it would limit accommodation choices (If you spend all day somewhere it'll cost you two nights!) However, if I have no accommodation booked, and I'm having a good day, I will often ride into the night, finding somewhere off site to sleep in the early hours. Much talk of visibility, two things - it easier to spot a lit cyclist in the dark than in daylight, particularly at certain times of the day, I was out yesterday and a low sun reduced my visibility and I was concerned that I could easily be invisible to an approaching motorist. Secondly - When's ourclarioncall thinking of doing this? Summer nights in the North of Scotland don't see much darkness, I've done a couple of Summer Scottish Audaxes where dusk transforms seamlessly into dawn.

On a more general point about cycling safety. It's a shame the perception of danger puts so many people off, I know some of the behaviour on our roads if frightening, but the chances of an incident are very small. I don't know that I'd get any pleasure from cycling if I didn't believe that. Or I might choose to ride the growing number of routes with a high proportion of traffic free sections.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: mickeg on February 20, 2023, 10:06:45 AM: There is a reason why there is no headlamp mounted on my bike in the photo. I was not going to ride in the dark. (Another photo from Nova Scotia.)

I had a headlamp inside my handlebar bag that I could attach to the handlebar with an elastic in event of a tunnel or the sudden urge to go to a pub at night. So I was prepared for contingencies. On this trip, all power from my dynohub went to battery charging, which includes taillight batteries.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: ourclarioncall on March 04, 2023, 01:47:08 PM: Back again

So, just had my first longer bike ride in a long time, it was about 15 miles to work. Seemed easy enough . Road was pretty flat most of the way.

I had my hiviz vest on , over blue jacket , and two flashing rear lights. Most cars gave me a decent amount of room , but I wouldn’t say the approx 5 feet or more they are supposed to. There were about 3 cars/vans that made me nervous coming past closer or at high speed. The worst is when they pass you right at the exact time an oncoming car is passing you on the right lane. I think of it as a sandwich , they are the jam and you end up bring one of the slices of bread. It seems like it also encourages other drivers behind to squeeze through too.

Anyway , that was enough to make me look up alternative safer sections to ride on where possible . Still enjoyed it tho .

Ok so I have about 12 weeks to get ready to go to John o groats

Thinking I might go through the day instead of night

If I did about 70 mile a day (which I can spilt up through the morning/afternoon /evening) I think that would be a good balance between not being away from the family too long and landing in good locations for hotels or camping

I would be looking to do
———————-
DAY 1 (tue 30th may)
Peterhead to Elgin
Accommodation - hotel

DAY 2 (wed 31st may)
Elgin to ???
Accommodation - ???

DAY 3 (thu 1st June)
??? To ???
Accommodation - ???

DAY 4 (fri 2nd June)
??? To John o groats
Accommodation - pre booked hotel with family
—————————
not sure about return journey yet, maybe do the same route backwards, or something different or bus/train etc

If I go for it I’ve Got about 12 weeks to build up some fitness and miles /experience. I don’t know how to approach this . Any ideas appreciated. I have about a 15 mile ride to work and same on the return . I could use this a foundation to build upon ? I could maybe extend my route 5 miles a week or something?

I also need to get my diet in order. I’m pretty knowledgeable in this department, research a lot about food and fasting etc. did a 9 day water fast a while back. So the discipline is there. At times ! I do love carbs tho. Thinking about keto or low carb diet to help lose weight as well as keeping my calorie intake consistent and not too high. Saying that , I love carbs 😄 and I kind of feel like my body likes carbs and I may need them for energy while riding long days. I dunno. Part of the fun is knowing in 20 miles youl be sitting down at an Indian buffet for supper 😄

Anyway , sorry I haven’t responded to everyone’s posts, family life is hectric . I do read them and take them on board. I’m also on my phone and don’t know what I’m doing with al the quoting and responding .

Cheers
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: energyman on March 04, 2023, 03:36:12 PM: That is on my bucket list too. Still hoping to do it before you know what !
Have a look at https://cycle.travel/
Best of luck.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: mickeg on March 04, 2023, 05:07:37 PM: Quote from: ourclarioncall on March 04, 2023, 01:47:08 PM
...
So, just had my first longer bike ride in a long time, it was about 15 miles to work. Seemed easy enough . Road was pretty flat most of the way.
...
The worst is when they pass you right at the exact time an oncoming car is passing you on the right lane. I think of it as a sandwich , they are the jam and you end up bring one of the slices of bread. It seems like it also encourages other drivers behind to squeeze through too.
...
Ok so I have about 12 weeks to get ready to go to John o groats
...
If I did about 70 mile a day (which I can spilt up through the morning/afternoon /evening) I think that would be a good balance between not being away from the family too long and landing in good locations for hotels or camping
...
I also need to get my diet in order. I’m pretty knowledgeable in this department, research a lot about food and fasting etc. did a 9 day water fast a while back. So the discipline is there. At times ! I do love carbs tho. Thinking about keto or low carb diet to help lose weight as well as keeping my calorie intake consistent and not too high. Saying that , I love carbs 😄 and I kind of feel like my body likes carbs and I may need them for energy while riding long days. I dunno. Part of the fun is knowing in 20 miles youl be sitting down at an Indian buffet for supper 😄
...

If a long ride is 15 miles, in 12 weeks you might find a 70 mile ride in a day to be quite difficult. If that is every day, that could be murder. But it depends on hills. If you can't enjoy a bike tour, it will be your last bike tour. Maybe you can get to that point, it depends on your age and fitness level.

19 years ago for me, a 6 mile ride was a long ride.

But I worked on it. A few years later, got to the point were a 20 mile exercise ride was pretty good, but a 35 mile ride was a chore.

Then 14 years ago I did my first loaded bike tour with camping gear, a 50-60 mile ride each day was tough, but do-able and not bad enough to make me stop bike touring.

Then 4 years ago (just before Covid), did my first 200k brevet (126 miles). That was the same year I did my Canadian Maritimes tour. One fourth of my days on that tour were over 60 miles, those were the longer days. I would not have wanted to do a 70 mile a day average. You might instead think of a maximum that you want to do in planning, and then add a few zero distance days.

My Canadian Maritimes tour, it was 33 days on the bike, I had three days that I did not travel due to high winds and no travel for three days of rain. Two of those three rain days, when I saw that much rain was in the forecast, I changed my plan and stayed at a hostel in Charlottetown for three nights to avoid the worst of the rain, did some sightseeing in a historic community instead.

Most of the snow has melted here, two days ago I did a 33.3 mile exercise ride, trying to get ready for another 200k brevet that is four weeks from today. To be followed by a 470 mile bike tour. Unfortunately for my exercise ride, I found one of the bike paths had not been snow plowed, was nasty ice (first photo) where it was shaded from very much sunlight. But I could ride a 200k last year, so I think I can build up to it in four weeks.

My planned bike tour next month would be with an old friend that I have bike toured with before. He has not bike toured since 2017, I have not since 2019. We are planning an overnight in about 2 or 3 weeks, short distance, but enough to remember what it is like. And to test our gear. Plan is 20 miles each of two days, but on gravel so it would be slower than pavement. We will be bringing our touring gear for that, as a test.

You might want to add an overnight tour a couple weeks before your trip.

***

Regarding being passed by a car at the same time that a car is coming from the other direction and for a split second you would be three abreast on the road, two cars and your bike, that is tough. A couple times a year I pull off the road and stop if I see a car ahead and another car behind in my mirror where it looks like they will both get to me simultaneously. Sometimes you can't get off the road if there is a steep embankment or something, you just have to hug the edge as close as you can. It is worst if you are approaching a hill or curve where you can see both cars, but neither car driver can see the other car, for them it is a surprise when they get to both you and the other car and they have no time to think in advance what to do. If I see a huge truck approaching me on a windy day, there have been a few days I stopped and pulled off the pavement so that the wind blast does not suck me into the traffic lane behind them as they pass.

***

Diet? I am not sure if you are talking for the next 12 weeks or if you mean food for the trip.

One pound of body weight is about 3500 calories that you removed from your normal diet. It is not too hard to cut 500 calories a day which is one pounds per week, but more is harder and if you are trying to build up muscle at the same time, that is difficult.

After my Iceland bike tour, my physician diagnosed a bad protein deficiency. I try to make sure that I get enough protein every day that involves significant exertion. On a bike tour, I try to eat a protein bar with 20 grams of protein after I finish my riding each day. Physical trainers will tell you that you need protein after a hard workout for muscle recovery.

For other foods during your bike tour, it is not a race so your exertion level will be low to moderate. Thus, trying to only eat carbs like a racer is not necessary. The article at this link is old and has old data but it is still one of the best articles that I have seen on the types of food needed for different exertion levels. At low exertion, your body fat stores is enough.
https://www.roadbikerider.com/energy-sources-exercise-intensities/

That article was silent on electrolytes. I try to keep some salty snack food in my handlebar bag in case I feel that I am just running out of energy where calories and water don't fix it, the next option I try is something salty for electrolytes.

Second photo, this is a great meal (fish and chips) for after a long day in the saddle. I ordered it with double fish for more protein. From the map I have on the table, I can say I ate that on Prince Edward Island.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: JohnR on March 04, 2023, 06:29:48 PM: The last 3 nights before JoG on my supported LEJOG were Drumnadrochit, Lairg and Bettyhill. You won't need to go as far south as Drumnadrochit and the Muir of Ord area looks to be about the right distance from Elgin. There's not much accommodation between Lairg and Bettyhill. The Crask Inn north of Lairg is a good refreshment stop.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on March 04, 2023, 08:17:03 PM: The Crask Inn north of Lairg is a good refreshment stop
When I passed by a few years ago, they offer free camping in their garden. It happened to be midge central so I kept on going. Not that the midges stopped following me!
New owners now; accommodation is available I believe.

Camping site at Lairg has gone. Not sure about B&B's

Best Matt
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: PH on March 04, 2023, 10:30:57 PM: Quote from: Matt2matt2002 on March 04, 2023, 08:17:03 PM
The Crask Inn north of Lairg is a good refreshment stop
When I passed by a few years ago, they offer free camping in their garden.
Indeed they do, though it's changed hands since I was last there
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3082/5766166166_74348512cd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/9Mx7j3)Crask Inn (https://flic.kr/p/9Mx7j3) by Paul (https://www.flickr.com/photos/phbike/), on Flickr
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: PH on March 04, 2023, 10:43:01 PM: Quote from: ourclarioncall on March 04, 2023, 01:47:08 PM
If I did about 70 mile a day (which I can spilt up through the morning/afternoon /evening) I think that would be a good balance between not being away from the family too long and landing in good locations for hotels or camping
Cheers
I think that's doable, just get as much riding as possible between now and then. If possible I'd aim to have done the same distance as your longest day a couple of times before and at least one pair of back to back rides of a decent distance. Are you comfortable on your bike? That's the one which makes completing such trips less likely rather than fitness. As you say, it can be broken up into chunks and you have all day. I have a preference for an early start, easier when camping rather than waiting on a hotel breakfast. Then well over half the days mileage before stopping for lunch.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: ourclarioncall on March 05, 2023, 12:10:45 AM: After a lot of frustration and changing saddles and adjusting stuff I’ve found a position that is working . I don’t think it’s ideal but not a lot I can do . It is pretty comfy tho . I’m a lot lower on the saddle than I’d like to be to get more power .

From a very deep analysis of my squatting technique which I did a while back I realised I have long femurs (upper leg bones) . So when squatting that sticks all my weight out the back and I have to lean forward with a weight extended out in front of me to counter balance . Combined with poor ankle mobility. No way I could do a normal back squat it would have to be a front or zercher squat.

So now I have a slightly better understanding of what’s going on when I’m sitting on a bike. Kinda
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: ourclarioncall on March 05, 2023, 12:11:37 AM: Quote from: energyman on March 04, 2023, 03:36:12 PM
That is on my bucket list too. Still hoping to do it before you know what !
Have a look at https://cycle.travel/
Best of luck.
handy website , had a look
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: ourclarioncall on March 05, 2023, 12:14:50 AM: Mickeg

Mmm, that fish and chips looks good mate

My hometown is supposed to be the biggest white fish port in Europe. I think . Could be wrong . So we love our fish and chips here. Haddock deep fried in batter
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: ourclarioncall on March 05, 2023, 12:15:53 AM: Quote from: Matt2matt2002 on March 04, 2023, 08:17:03 PM
The Crask Inn north of Lairg is a good refreshment stop
When I passed by a few years ago, they offer free camping in their garden. It happened to be midge central so I kept on going. Not that the midges stopped following me!
New owners now; accommodation is available I believe.

Camping site at Lairg has gone. Not sure about B&B's

Best Matt
Thanks for info. Need to go have a look at the map again
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: ourclarioncall on March 05, 2023, 12:17:14 AM: Quote from: Matt2matt2002 on March 04, 2023, 08:17:03 PM
The Crask Inn north of Lairg is a good refreshment stop
When I passed by a few years ago, they offer free camping in their garden. It happened to be midge central so I kept on going. Not that the midges stopped following me!
New owners now; accommodation is available I believe.

Camping site at Lairg has gone. Not sure about B&B's

Best Matt

Oh, midges, forgot about them.

I remember as a kid visiting my granny in John o groats we have a repellent called jungle juice or something like that
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: JohnR on March 05, 2023, 08:14:34 AM: Quote from: ourclarioncall on March 05, 2023, 12:17:14 AM
Oh, midges, forgot about them.

I remember as a kid visiting my granny in John o groats we have a repellent called jungle juice or something like that
Investigate Smidge https://www.smidgeup.com/. I bought some but the weather was good for cyclists so it wasn't put to a proper test.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: mickeg on March 05, 2023, 01:17:34 PM: For bugs, my last tour had a LOT of mosquitos in several campsites.

And of course bike jerseys have a knit fabric that bugs can easily bite through. Since then, I have bought and used some Permethrin to treat fabrics, but I have not been out in buggy locales since so I can't say how well it works. I am in USA, it is my understanding that some countries do not allow the sale of permethrin, I do not know about UK.

I used to use Deet, but Deet has a reputation for damaging some things, such as some plastics it comes in contact with. Starting roughly five years ago I stared to use Picaridin instead, it works quite well and should not damage anything.

One particular buggy site on my last bike tour, I used a bit of Deet when the Picaridin did not seem to be fully effective, I have a tiny bottle of 100 percent Deet that is about 30 years old, having both Picaridin and Deet on seemed to work. That said, that was only one day that the Picaridin was not enough out of almost five weeks.

The brand I used for both Picaridin and Permethrin is Sawyer. I do not know if that brand is sold in UK or not.

One morning on my last bike tour, the mosquitos were outside my tent screen door waiting for me to open the door so they could come in for breakfast, photo attached.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: in4 on March 05, 2023, 06:00:32 PM: I think there is an Avon product called either skin so soft or something similar that is well regarded re keeping the midges away. Anecdotal stories of soldiers using it abound.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: JohnR on March 05, 2023, 10:36:05 PM: I was once told that chewing two cloves of raw garlic per day would fend off mosquitoes. Perhaps this also works with midges (I'm not planning to try ::) ).
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: ourclarioncall on March 06, 2023, 05:05:33 AM: Hmmm, thoughts ?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1239891353285405/

Been wanting a nomad for a long time . And it’s pretty close to where I live
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: Matt2matt2002 on March 06, 2023, 08:43:03 AM: Quote from: ourclarioncall on March 06, 2023, 05:05:33 AM
Hmmm, thoughts ?

Definitely worth a look
Ask the history. Spares look good.
Rims? I have the same. Not sure I'd buy ( if available) again.
Let us know if you view it.

Best

Matt
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1239891353285405/

Been wanting a nomad for a long time . And it’s pretty close to where I live
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: PH on March 06, 2023, 08:44:58 AM: Quote from: ourclarioncall on March 06, 2023, 05:05:33 AM
Hmmm, thoughts ?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1239891353285405/

Been wanting a nomad for a long time . And it’s pretty close to where I live
That looks a good bike, in top spec (As long as you're happy with V brakes and 26" wheels), in good condition, at a very reasonable price - A new Mk3 in that spec is going to cost over twice that. But £1,500 is still a lot of money for something if it isn't right.
Is it the perfect size for you? Is it exactly what you want? Is it usable as it is? If the answer to all three is a definite yes, it could be the bike you've dreamt of. If any of the answers is a maybe, then proceed with caution. If the answer to any is no, then walk away!
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: PH on March 06, 2023, 08:47:56 AM: Quote from: in4 on March 05, 2023, 06:00:32 PM
I think there is an Avon product called either skin so soft or something similar that is well regarded re keeping the midges away. Anecdotal stories of soldiers using it abound.
Avon Skin so Soft works fantastically well, I've taken a bottle on four trips to Scotland and haven't seen a single midge and that's without opening it.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: ourclarioncall on March 06, 2023, 10:35:51 AM: Should I be concerned about the damage to the rear rack? How could that have happened? Would it take some amount of force and could that have stressed other areas of the bike ?
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: in4 on March 06, 2023, 07:30:43 PM: I’d ask the seller. I have that rack and it’s pretty tough.
Coincidentally I also have a MK2 590L. I’m 1.78M and after putting a shorter stem on find the bike a great fit. Mine is prettier, of course :)
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: Danneaux on March 06, 2023, 10:05:59 PM: Quote
Coincidentally I also have a MK2 590L...
My 2012 Nomad Mk2 is also a 590, but with the shorter top (M) top tube, with a short-reach stem and compact-drop handlebars. I stand 177.8 and it is also a perfect fit for me.

Wonderful bikes. I sure would hate to part with mine as it has been terrific throughout all my use. The 26in tire size may be getting harder to find, but it sure makes for strong, reliable wheels when carrying enormous loads as the bike was designed to do.

Quote
Mine is prettier, of course :)
Wanna bet? ;) :D ;D ::) Maybe "co-equal" in beauty? ;)

The one pictured in the ad looks to me like good value for money and the structural portion of the damaged rear rack appears unaffected from what I can see. I cannot imagine how it happened unless it was in shipping/air transport and was detached from the bike at the time. As Ian said, those racks are tough.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: PH on March 07, 2023, 11:53:39 AM: it's impossible to evaluate any damage to the frame without inspection and I'd be doing that with any secondhand bike. It wouldn't put me off looking, the ad says it happened in transit before their ownership, so they're unlikely to be able to be more specific. Having worked in air freight, damage doesn't surprise me, it doesn't happen often, but is does happen. The end of the rack is cantilevered off a fair way, and thin walled steel tubes, those would last a lifetime (Or two) in normal use and abuse, but it still wouldn't take much outside that to bend it.
Also consider this - If you were an unscrupulous seller trying to pass off a damaged frame, wouldn't you remove or replace the rack?
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: mickeg on March 07, 2023, 01:45:27 PM: The cost of a rack is a small percentage of the total cost. If you need a different rack, get one.

I use a Tubus Logo EVO on the back on my Nomad Mk II when touring with panniers. That rack sets the panniers a bit lower for lower center of gravity and if you swing your leg over the back to get on or off the bike, lower pannier height can help.

First photo with Carradry panniers on the Logo EVO.

Second photo with Ortlieb Back Rollers and 31 liter Ortlieb Rack Pack.

Long story on why I have both kinds of panniers, they are both good, I am too lazy to type the reason that I have both.

If the rack condition is that important to your decision, ask for more photos of the rack.
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: PH on March 07, 2023, 01:50:01 PM: Quote from: mickeg on March 07, 2023, 01:45:27 PM
The cost of a rack is a small percentage of the total cost. If you need a different rack, get one.

<SNIP>
If the rack condition is that important to your decision, ask for more photos of the rack.
I agree, though I don't think that was the question
Quote
Would it take some amount of force and could that have stressed other areas of the bike ?
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: John Saxby on March 07, 2023, 04:57:04 PM: Clarion, apologies for coming to this a little late -- have been away on personal stuff. Let me offer a few observations & suggestions on Dealing With Bugs'n'such, daily mileage, and diet. I'll preface this by saying that I've not done much hiking or cycling in UK, but I do have a lifetime's worth of hiking, camping, cycling and paddling in Canada/North America, Europe, & East/Central/Southern Africa. On a six-day hike of the West Highland Way in 2008, I encountered midges, sometimes lots of 'em, but they were more of a nuisance than anything else.

1) My main line of defence against airborne biting insects is clothing: longsleeved shirts closely buttoned a neck and wrist; long pants closed at the ankle; and especially a headnet. The latter is available with more or less fine mesh, and the best ones have a toggle drawstring closure that falls below your neckline. They weigh nothing, and fold up into a 2" cube. I may have missed it in the posts above, but I was surprised not to see it mentioned. The headnet shd be put on over a hat with a brim -- say, a bucket hat -- which allows the net to drop to your shoulders away from your face & head. NB: see the note below on repellants and clothing.

This line of defence is used mainly for campsites -- places where I'm more or less stationery, and there are lots of mozzies, etc.

2) Timing matters: When I was young an impulsive, I used to go paddling, etc., in the Canajan bush in early June. The magic of the changing seasons, etc., etc. After getting savaged by blackflies more than enough, I gave up. There is no defence against these brutes, material or chemical. So, I avoid blackfly country for the first three weeks or so of June. (you might enjoy Wade Hemsworth's song about the creature, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f389hIxZAOc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f389hIxZAOc). "Ode to a Nightingale" it ain't.)

3) Repellants: Body chemistry varies, and my experience may be specific:

* "Skin-so-soft" felt nice on my skin, but didn't keep any mozzies away.
* THE BEST repellant I ever used came from a herbalist in Yukon. Our daughter worked on their farm about 15 years ago, and gave me some. I just checked their website, however, and they seem no longer to offer it. It's probably not an immediate option, but you may want to check the site for Aroma Borealis (nice, eh?): aromaborealis.com (http://aromaborealis.com). You could say to Bev that Meg's dad recommended her product, and maybe she could make you up a special batch. It's a long shot, though.
* I now use only DEET-based repellants -- but sparingly, and very carefully. DEET is powerful stuff. If you use it, keep it away from your skin & esp your eyes -- put instead on your clothing at wrists and neck; and, on the brim of your hat above your ears. Here in Ontario DEET-based products use only 29-30% of the stuff. Do not use DEET on nylon clothing--it can effectively melt it. I've found that DEET is, however, an A-grade fire-starter -- if your kindling is sputtering, stand well back, and squirt some DEET on it. The results are truly spectacular. (Mind you, I used 96% DEET the couple of times I tied it.) Now that I'm older and wiser, I just use birch bark...

4) Placement: It may be stating the obvious, but try to pitch camp away from standing water, and try to take advantage of prevailing winds. There's often a tradeoff betw shelter (e.g. trees) and the bug-chasing value of wind. A lightweight tarp can be a great help.

5) Daily distance: Whatever you decide is your choice, obviously, but I can't help asking if what's "doable" is the issue. Personally, I'd look for a more flexible adjective: "enjoyable", perhaps? I've found that, over the course of a day, "slower" is often more enjoyable. One can always ride quickly, of course, but I've found that a guideline which allows for photos, chance conversations, lingering on a lunchtime terrace, what-have-you, can be more rewarding. FWIW, I use 90 kms/day (56 mi) as a guideline over the course of a tour. There'll be days when I do 60 kms, others when I do 130. The 4Hs play a part, of course: heat, humidity, headwinds and hills.

6) Finally, an observation on diet: Twenty years ago, after I had my first run-in with Deep vein Thrombosis, I looked into Barry Sears' book "The Zone Diet". I found it very helpful. He argues for a 40-30-30 balance among carb, fat & protein: 40% of calories from carbs, 30% from fats, and 30 from protein. They type of carbs, etc., matters greatly too, of course. He has a lot of very specific recommendations on what and how. Our son was an international-class athlete around that time, and I asked him for his opinion. He said he thought that Sears' approach--based on the necessity to regulate insulin produced by the body--was valid, but in his diet control, he used a much simpler approach: no carbs after 12 noon.

In my experience, using Sears' approach plus cycling produced a gradual but apparently profound and beneficial change in my metabolism: over the years between about 2002 and 2010, I dropped about 20 lbs in weight, from +/- 205 lbs to +/- 185. The change was gradual, and then all-of-a-sudden: I had gradually reduced my weight to about 195-200 lbs, and then in 2010 I did an 8-day tour of the Gaspé peninsula in SE Québec. When I reached home, I was down to about 185 and a bit. The latter has remained constant as my "default" for the last decade-plus. I still follow Sears' guidelines, but not as closely as I once did.

Hope that's helpful, and good luck with your big adventure!

Cheers, John
Title: Re: John o groats route help
Post by: Pavel on April 11, 2023, 05:55:36 AM: A bit late to this ... but I'd like to chime in that I absolutely love night riding. No bike of mine will ever not have a dynamo and light for that reason. But I do live in North Carolina, in the humid south west of the USA where the temperature and humindity in the daytime are terrible, so I wait for the cool nights of only 42 c. and 97 percent humidity to make progress on my trips.

The traffic is as also much lighter at night and the bugs that chase - let me keep a slightly slower cadence - more appropriate to my advancing age.