Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: KDean on October 08, 2021, 12:18:03 PM
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After my operation I won't be able to use my nearly new Nomad Mrk2 as it will be too heavy for me to lift on to my van rack & over gates etc . I'll move it on & like to hear recommendations of something lighter for day trips or the odd over night , with Rohloff & 2" plus tires for comfort . I can't see any weights on the website so perhaps they are all weighty ?
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My 10+ year old Raven Tour is much lighter than a Nomad.
44lbs/ 20Kg
I run 1.25_ tires but I've had 2"+ on for tours.
Did you want a new bike?
No Ravens being made now.
( Maybe a few frames left at SJS?)
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like to hear recommendations of something lighter for day trips or the odd over night , with Rohloff & 2" plus tires for comfort.
My own "lightweight" day bike is a Raven Sport Tour built up with (relatively) light rims and no racks, just a saddlebag. Max tyre size on that frame is about 42 mm with good mudguard clearance. It weighs around 14 Kg with empty saddlebag, so about 1 Kg more than my former lightweight derailleur tourer. The saddlebag unclips fairly quickly, so I could reduce the lifted weight by a little if necessary.
I like a saddlebag for lightly-loaded rides, an alternative would be a lightweight rear rack like the Tubus Airy and unclip the rear panniers for gates and lifting onto a vehicle.
My Raven Sport Tour is one of the three bikes I store on hooks in my garage, putting it on the hook is much easier than if I try with my Raven Tour, which is a "heavy" build not far off 20 Kg with front and rear racks, Andra rims, etc.
In the current Thorn range the nearest equivalent sounds like a light build on a Mercury frame. To get the advantage of really wide tyres without adding too much weight you could specify this with 650B "gravel" tyres.
To get a good specification with a Rohloff and 2" (or bigger) tyres I don't think you could get all that much lighter than a Mercury, unless going for a carbon fibre or titanium frame, which might save another few hundred grams.
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I can't see any weights on the website so perhaps they are all weighty ?
Yes they're all weighty, all touring bikes are, Thorn offer a 700c Nomad and the brochure says "The resulting machine is almost as light as a 700c Mercury with identical 853 fork"
How much the almost is, I don't know, I'd be surprised if it was 500g.
With the right kit you could probably get your current bike below 13kg, I doubt you'd get a Mercury build much less than 12kg and only then with a lot of expense and some compromise.
I think you're going to have to consider something considerably different to make a significant difference. I find when lifting bikes it isn't so much the weight but the size and shape. My Airnimal Joey weighs in at around 12kg (Without guards and rack) it's far easier to pick up and move around than my more normal bikes.
Good luck, but I think there's a danger of spending a lot of money and finding it doesn't make any difference.
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I think you're going to have to consider something considerably different to make a significant difference.
Maybe. I reckon it depends on the current weight of the Nomad, if it is like my Raven Tour and about 20 Kg, a light tourer at about 14 Kg is much easier to lift.
I find when lifting bikes it isn't so much the weight but the size and shape. My Airnimal Joey weighs in at around 12kg (Without guards and rack) it's far easier to pick up and move around than my more normal bikes.
True to a certain extent, but the Joey at 12 Kg is probably lighter than nearly all Thorn tourers.
I found weight was important when I was regularly carrying a folded Brompton. As most of my trips involving a lot of carrying were short and in urban areas I got the weight down from about 12 Kg to about 10.5 Kg by:
- getting a Brompton superlight with titanium fork and rear triangle. Downside - expensive
- fitting the lightest possible tyres (Kevlar bead Kojaks). Downsides - fragile, more expensive, more punctures
- getting rid of the hub gear and converting to the 2 speed. Downsides - not suitable for long distances, less reliable than the hub gear.
- using removable battery-powered lighting rather than dynohub and fixed lamps. Very little overall weight saving, but easier to carry because the removable lamps went in the front luggage carried in one hand and therefore reduced the weight of the bike carried by my other hand. Downsides - less reliable and needing to think about recharging.
But 1500 g of saved weight made a very noticeable difference. And, despite the compromises and expense, worth it for me, as I reckoned I had carried a folded Brompton for a total distance of between 70 and 140 kms over the several years I had that particular pattern of use.
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I think you're going to have to consider something considerably different to make a significant difference.
Maybe. I reckon it depends on the current weight of the Nomad, if it is like my Raven Tour and about 20 Kg, a light tourer at about 14 Kg is much easier to lift.
I could maybe have written that better, I'd said
With the right kit you could probably get your current bike below 13kg,
It's in relation to that I believe it'd have to be a different sort of bike to be significantly lighter.
But yes, if the current Nomad build is 20kg, then a 13kg bike will be noticeably easier to lift. But a new 13kg bike won't be any easier than a re-configured 13kg Nomad.
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50mm tyres -- and don't forget the tubes because at these sizes they too weigh appreciably -- by themselves will make a substantial weight unless you give puncture protection bands, another weight generator, a miss. I was an invalid for a while after heart surgery, and I still can't bend over the bike for long, so I would be loath to give up the protection band in my bike's tyres. You can however make a weight saving on the tubes by choosing Schwalbe's Extraleich semi-racing tubes. The ones I use are for 622mm rims, Schwalbe Type 19A; they've never let me down.
Good luck with getting a bike and fitting-out that suits you.
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What about a low loader towball mounted rack?
https://www.crazysales.com.au/online-3-bike-carrier-rack-towbar-bike-rack-hitch-mount-bicycle-holder-for-car
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After my operation I won't be able to use my nearly new Nomad Mrk2 as it will be too heavy for me to lift on to my van rack & over gates etc . I'll move it on & like to hear recommendations of something lighter for day trips or the odd over night , with Rohloff & 2" plus tires for comfort . I can't see any weights on the website so perhaps they are all weighty ?
As suggested above, a 650b Mercury would be the obvious choice from the Thorn stable, if you can still get one in your size. Perfect for day trips and occasional overnights. More lively ride than a Nomad when unladen, given the lighter tubing used in the frame. Its a really fun bike.
That's if you want a new bike. As PH observes, the sturdier Nomad frame doesn't appear to add much weight - likely less than 1kg. The rest is in the sturdier components, which could be replaced.
If you're no longer planning big trips, a bike swap sounds like the way to go though. My Mercury 650b (http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14275.0) is 13.8kg with Brooks seat, dynohub and a 550g Tubus rack.
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After my operation I won't be able to use my nearly new Nomad Mrk2 as it will be too heavy for me to lift on to my van rack & over gates etc . I'll move it on & like to hear recommendations of something lighter for day trips or the odd over night , with Rohloff & 2" plus tires for comfort . I can't see any weights on the website so perhaps they are all weighty ?
Just a thought, depends upon your height etc. here's a nice Raven
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?PHPSESSID=k0cdcpf0k98jnis3334hfi6ou7&topic=14364.0
Not mine, incidentally.
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Thank you very much for all of your constructive comments ..,I actually became ill doing LEJOG 800 miles in (how frustrating ) & using my Ribble off road adventure bike that's considerably lighter( It's a shame it won't take a Rohloff) I found that frustrating enough trying to get it over /through some of the anti motorbike barriers , who ever designed them needs a good talking to.
I'll have a close look at the Mercury Mk3.
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my Ribble off road adventure bike that's considerably lighter( It's a shame it won't take a Rohloff)
With a Monkybone* and a chain tensioner the Rohloff ought to fit fine. It isn't as elegant a solution as a purpose made frame, but it isn't as bad as some would have you believe (It's what I use on on the aforementioned Airnimal)
The Mercury is a great bike, as Moronic says the lighter tubing is probably a major contributor to the livelier feel (Compared to a Raven, I haven't owned a Nomad though had a days ride on a derailleur model) but the difference in frame weight isn't going to make much difference when you lift it.
If you have the time and inclination, strip your Ribble and Nomad down to the frameset and weigh them, that's the maximum saving you're going to achieve if you build them in a similar style. As an estimate, the Mercury is going to be half way between them. Then depending on the Ribble's gearing the Rohloff is going to add 250 - 500g on to that. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the difference between gearing systems wasn't as much as the difference between the current Mercury and Nomad frame weights. I know it may seem like herasy, particulaly as I've been collecting them for twenty years, but if weight was high on my list of priorities, a Rohloff wouldn't be.
* Possibly, depending on where the disc caliper fitting is, though there are other solutions.
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Was going to say much the same as PH. I love having a rohloff but it does not lead to lightweight bikes. When you are riding it is possible to forget about it, but when lifting the bike it reminds you like a bad back. The fact it’s concentrated on the back wheel doesn’t help. My RST is about 13kg when stripped of luggage and accessories if I recall correctly. Feels fine to ride but it rarely goes on the wall hangers. My Ti audax is about 10kg, not a huge difference but certainly one you would notice.
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With a Monkybone* and a chain tensioner the Rohloff ought to fit fine.
thanks I'll look into it . But as the Ribble is designed for complete off road I can't see myself doing a lot of that moving both on & having a close look at the Mercury may be a good idea.
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If changing components to reduce weight what would you use makes etc .
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Consider how you are lifting the bike to put on the rack, etc.
If I lift my Nomad Mk II onto the receiver hitch rack that my bike top tube hangs on, it is quite difficult if I try to stand upright and lift the bike by lifting the top part of the bike. But it is a lot easier if I use my knees to lower myself a bit, then lift it by using one hand on a chainstay, as I can use more of my leg muscles to do some of the lifting instead of relying solely on my arm muscles to lift it.
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I'm considering making a ramp I saw on Youtube made out of guttering & a alloy strip running up the back ,so I could push it straight onto the rack .
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Tyres and tubes would be a good place to start, as Andre says there can be a huge difference. What do you have on it now?
Then before swapping components, consider what you have attached and if you need it, racks, pump, lock, lights, bags... when you come to lift it the less stuff on it the better so anything that doesn't need to be attached might be better off in an easily removable bag. Only then would I start looking at components. wheels might be a big one, but also a big job and expense, so I'd be inclined to leave alone. Saddle? If you have a kg of cowhide there, it might be time to look at alternatives. Bar ends? Crankset? There's a lot of weight difference in these, external bearing seem to be lighter, what have you? BB to match of course, and look at pedals at the same time. Then there's not much left, bars and seatpost, if they're the Thorn branded originals they're mid weight and durable, you might shave a couple of hundred grams off, but you might not want to. Likewise brakes, I assume V's? I've never considered the weight, there might be some saving.
I don't know what your frame weight is, this is the only part of your bike that isn't changeable, assuming you stick with the idea of the Rohloff. I did a quick google and found a review of a S&S coupled Nomad, bike weight 16.9kg frameset weight 3.8kg, maybe 3.5 without the S&S. This is what you're dealing with, this is the point I'd like to get across, if you build another bike up with a similar spec, you'll only be improving on that 3.5kg.
https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/road-bikes/thorn-raven-nomad-ss-review/
I've only considered your question in relation to lifting it, there may be other good reasons to choose a different bike.
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I don't know what your frame weight is, this is the only part of your bike that isn't changeable, assuming you stick with the idea of the Rohloff. I did a quick google and found a review of a S&S coupled Nomad, bike weight 16.9kg frameset weight 3.8kg, maybe 3.5 without the S&S. This is what you're dealing with, this is the point I'd like to get across, if you build another bike up with a similar spec, you'll only be improving on that 3.5kg.
https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/road-bikes/thorn-raven-nomad-ss-review/
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The Nomad Mk II frame likely weighs a bit more than the Nomad cited in that review. The Nomad Mk II has a more robust downtube to headtube connection. And of course, different sizes have different weights.
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Removing fronts & rear racks has saved 4lbs , I'll give SJS a call to see what they suggest .
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The Nomad Mk II frame likely weighs a bit more than the Nomad cited in that review. The Nomad Mk II has a more robust downtube to headtube connection. And of course, different sizes have different weights.
Maybe, the problem is quantifying that bit more. The reviewed frame weight is 2.8kg and 300g of that is going to be the S&S couplings. so 2.5kg. The forks look the same.
Here's an old Reynolds guide to the difference in frame weights, the difference between a track and a touring frame is 550g. I suspect the difference between any two touring frames will be less than that.
http://equusbicycle.com/bike/reynolds/images/006reynolds80brochure.jpg
I've been down this road, I replaced my Raven with a custom titanium frame, there was 270g difference, the ti was heavier. OK it was different in a lot of other ways and suited me better, but I had hoped to also shave a bit of weight off.