Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: beeb on August 05, 2021, 04:36:54 PM
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So in a week or so we should become the proud owners of two Thorn Raven touring bikes.
The rohloff will be new to both myself and my wife.
So question is, if you were doing a tour from Turkey back to the UK via the Danube and the Rhine, what would be in your tool/spares kit?
What bike mechanic skills would you skill up on prior to your tour?
This is the tour we are thinking of doing next year. Thanks for any help.
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A welcome to the forum from me.
There's an excellent booklet "Living with a Rohloff" downloadable from the Thorn website
https://www.thorncycles.co.uk/bikes
That has a pretty good touring toolkit list, it's a good basis, likely to cover all but the most extreme possibilities. I have most of the stuff in it, though depending on the tour don't always take it all.
The chances are you won't need much, but it depends how remote you'll be and how cautious. Being able to repair wheels, chains and brakes ought to cover the skills needed. Chances are if the bike is in good condition when you set of it won't need anything more than routine servicing.
EDIT - If you like multitools, the Thorn one probably has everything you're likely to need
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tools/thorn-cycles-20-function-multi-tool-cordura-case-with-t20-tool-ideal-for-rohloff/
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Welcome. Are the bikes new, or just new to you? Either way, it would be prudent to clock up enough miles on the bikes to be sure that you've got everything comfortable and everything is running smoothly. If not new then a thorough check and service would be prudent and even if you don't change the shifter cables then have a spare pair available. You should change the oil in the Rohloff hub before setting out on your journey (instructions at https://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/user_upload/3_Service_En_2015_03_web.pdf ) and, if the distance is likely to exceed 3,000 miles / 5,000 km, then you'll need to carry an oil change kit.
You need to become familiar with the procedure for rear wheel removal (quite easy but remember to set the shifter to either 1 or 14 before starting). Doing a basic service and check will reveal what tools you need. Thorn provides a simple owner's guide http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornBikeOwnerManual2Web.pdf . One disadvantage of the multitools is that they provide very limited torque for undoing something which has been tightened with full-sized tools so carrying a few selected full-sized tools may be prudent.
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if you were doing a tour from Turkey back to the UK via the Danube and the Rhine, what would be in your tool/spares kit?
I did -- twice and then some -- on my 2014 European double-crossing. After 10 days working in Bodrum Turkey, I largely followed the Danube E-W from the Black Sea at Constanta to coastal France and then again W-E (including the Danube source at Donaueschingen) and also did much of the Rhine and Rhine-Main canal connector as well as the Mosel for the major rivers and 'round the Bodensee (Lake Constance) and over the Black Forest to the Tittesee. About 9,000kms in all over four months.
The EV6 -- if you choose to follow it in part or in whole - is actually several routes. Often there are three options available, a quieter/longer one, a busier/shorter one and another more MTB oriented that may not be paved.
In Western Europe you'll often find bike shops near the route and can get what you want or need. Austria was the best in this regard, with roadside vending machines for Continental tires and tubes plus various other sundries and occasional public repair stations equipped with bike repair tools on tethers. As you go east, this was rarely the case in my experience. Along my routes in Croatia, Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria it was very difficult to find bike shops along the route and when I did, they were poorly stocked. For example, I felt lucky to find a single pair of v-brake pads in Corabia and most of the shops had only MTB knobbies in 26in or 700x23C racing tires with little in-between. Of course, places like Sofia, Budapest, Bratislava, Prague, and Begrade had everything you could wish for as those are major centers for commerce.
I took the following for the then-new RavenTour so kindly loaned to me by forum member AndyBG:
In Ortlieb Medium Underseat bag (waterproof, for quick access to tools and supplies for most-needed repairs):
spare tube
solvent patch kit
instant patch kit
digital Schwalbe tire pressure gauge with fresh battery
Crank Bros mini-pump
Performance Spin Doctor 14 multi-Tool with all-stainless and CR-V steel tools and capable of handling high torque:
two glass-reinforced nylon tire levers
chain rivet tool
locking thin 15mm wrench for pedals and eccentric bolts
locking serrated spatula/knife
locking 12pt 10mm box wrench and 2.0 spoke nipple wrench
locking 12pt 9mm box wrench and 1.8 spoke nipple wrench
locking 12pt 8mm box wrench
locking slotted screwdriver
Chrome-vanadium (CR-V) 2mm allen key
CR-V 2.5mm allen key
CR-V 3mm allen key
CR-V 4mm allen key
CR-V 5mm allen key
CR-V 6mm allen key
CR-V 8mm allen key
CR-V No. 2 Phillips screwdriver
Thorn multi-tool of shop quality/thickness:
pin wrench for adjusting eccentric BB shell
15mm open-end wrench for adjusting ecentric bolts, attaching/removing pedals
8mm box wrench to manually shift Rohloff EX box if cable breaks
2pr heavy duty reusable nitrile gloves
spare quick-links for chain
presta-to-schraeder screw-on valve adapter
can be stored on rear wheel valve
chain lube (Triflow drip bottle)
Brooks waterproof saddle cover in sack attached to saddle rails (actually used disposable yellow vinyl shower cap stored in side mesh pocket of HB bag in high-theft areas)
TOOLS KIT in roll-top dry sack inside my waterproof Ortlieb pannier:
small SunTour v-jaw cable cutters/end crimpers
Rohloff cable measure tube
Rohloff oil change kit
spare Ortlieb bag q/r buckle
spare Ortlieb HB bag mounting cable
1 brake cable
2 shift cables (could be 3)
4 zip-ties
2 solvent patch kits (one small, one large)
Large "tool bottle" made from medicine bottle riveted top-to-top to small tool bottle::
10m high-strength, hi-viz Spectra cord
2 spare chain links (1 inner, 1 outer)
Ortlieb pannier backing nut for lower stabilizer fin (spare mounting hooks and fins already self-stored on bags)
Assorted spare stainless nylock nuts and bolts to fit bike including spare seatpost and saddle clamp bolts
small bottle, beta cyanoacrylate super glue.
spare CR2032 battery for bike computer
spare CR2032 battery for tire pressure gauge
spare CR2032 battery for wristwatch ...usually just take one CR2032 for backup if all others are fresh at start of tour.
Small "tool bottle" made from medicine bottle, lid riveted top-to-top to large tool bottle:
4m of duct tape wrapped around outside
spare bolt-in presta valve
assorted spare stainless nylock nuts, bolts, washers
spare chainring sleeve nut and peg
spare fender stay drawbolt, nut, cap
spare quick-links for chain
spare cable end caps
2 spare chain links (1 inner, 1 outer...so four links total in these two bottles)
Giant "tool bottle" made from larger medicine bottle:
4in locking mini needle-nose Vise-Grips w/cutter and plier jaws
1/4in drive Torx bits for Rohloff shifter (grasp with mini Vise-Grips)
chainring peg spanner
12 smaller zip-ties
4 small stainless screw-drive clamps
12 links of drive chain
Spokey Professional spoke key with double steel drivers and 4-side nipple drive
Rohloff sprocket remover (I have since switched to the slim splined Rohloff sprocket and carrier on my own Nomad Mk2, but carry a couple spare circlips for it as they can sometimes pop off when riding cross-country through tall grass).
If I had used my Nomad, I would also have carried a Shimano outboard bearing BB tension plastic preload adjuster
Rohloff oil change kit
Optional brake pads if Shimano, none needed if Kool-Stop salmon
Optional Coleman stove replacement pump seals if I had taken my Coleman Peak1 MultiFuel stove
Optional complete spare chain for even longer journeys
Optional for derailleur bikes:
emergency rear derailleur hanger
cassette puller /or/ freewheel puller
spare derailleur cable
Any specific items unique to the bike being used
Packed separately in panniers:
Schwalbe Dureme folding bead tire, 26x2.0in
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When all was said and done, I used very little in terms of tools and supplies:
I suffered only a single puncture in the entire journey, caused by a roofing staple in Giurgiu, Romania. My Crank Bros Power Pump worked well throughout and I checked tire pressure about every third day and topped off a couple strokes' worth every week.
I lubed my chain regularly, sometimes daily if it was raining. I used a mascara brush to floss it before relubing when it got dusty in western Romania.
I had a shop change the hub oil in Germany and kept my oil change kit as a spare if needed.
I adjusted the eccentric bottom bracket once in Romania on the return leg of my tour headed back to the Black Sea. This was the one time I had a problem. I removed a link-pair from the chain to compensate for the dialed-back eccentric and discovered the 8-sp quick-link I had was 0.1mm too thick to fit the chain(there are two thicknesses of 8-sp quick-links and I had the one that was to thick to fit my chain). I was really in a pickle but a kindly farmer came to my aid. I figured the best approach would be to file down the links to fit but he insisted on using a hammer and drift punch as my heart sank. He did manage to get it together after two hours'(!) work and I was surely grateful. It held together fine for the rest of my trip, quickly wearing in the necessary amount for clearance. I've attached a photo of this hero below. What a nice and generous fellow he was! I repaid his kindness with a half-dozen premium chocolate bars I purchased from a magazine in the next village. People like him can really make or save an entire tour.
As for skills, I would suggest a general familiarity with basic bike repair but most especially:
Wheel removal and puncture repair/tube replacement and some familiarity with reconnecting your Rohloff cables (either bayonet or EX click-box).
Brake pad replacement/cable replacement and adjustment
Chain shortening and replacement along with adjusting and securing the eccentric bottom bracket (check in advance to be sure your quick links actually fit)
Basic wheel truing -- Roads in Bulgaria can be BAD with lots of frost heaves, broken pavement, occasional missing street hatch covers and what I called "tar blowups" caused by heavily filled potholes that see car and truck traffic before they have cooled. This squashes the fresh tar into big heaves that really unsettle the bike and rider.
Rohloff cable replacement -- at least familiarity with what's required even if you don't try it in advance.
Rohloff oil change procedure
In closing, I would add the suggestion that if you go one-way, you make it west-to-east. The prevailing winds will be with you and the hill slopes are gentler. It is much more work to go east-to-west. I was able to easily ride some 200km days eastbound fully loaded in hill country, yet struggled sometimes to make 112km/day westbound.
Hope this helps.
Best,
Dan.
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Compared to Dan's list
Stuff I don't take:
instant patch kit I prefer the old-fashioned rubber solution patch kits
presta-to-schraeder screw-on valve adapter Never needed this
small SunTour v-jaw cable cutters/end crimpers Never had a cable failure on tour, if I do I would look for a bike shop or garage
1 brake cable Ditto, and can be found fairly easily in Western Europe
10m high-strength, hi-viz Spectra cord No idea what this is for!
small bottle, beta cyanoacrylate super glue. Never needed this on tour, and easy to buy in Western Europe
spare bolt-in presta valve If needed I could take one from the spare tube
spare chainring sleeve nut and peg Never had a chainring bolt come loose on tour, if I do I would look for a bike shop or garage
spare cable end caps Would do without if necessary
1/4in drive Torx bits for Rohloff shifter (grasp with mini Vise-Grips) Might be a good idea to take this as Torx could be awkward to find locally
chainring peg spanner Never had a chainring bolt come loose on tour, if I do I would look for a bike shop or garage
4 small stainless screw-drive clamps Never needed these
spare Ortlieb bag q/r buckle Never broken a bag buckle on tour. If it happens, I would probably just use a locally bought bungee
cord or similar
Stuff where I do things slightly differently:
Performance Spin Doctor 14 multi-Tool I prefer separate tools, even though they are a bit heavier and bulkier
Optional complete spare chain for even longer journeys I did carry a spare chain when touring with a derailleur bike, and used it PLUS I bought two others while on tour. I wouldn't bother for a tour of less than 6,000 kms with a Rohloff and Chainglider.
Thorn multi-tool of shop quality/thickness If I need to adjust the eccentric on tour I would borrow a hammer and punch.
Rohloff cable measure tube For (very) long tours I carry a set of spare shifter cables and ferrules pre-cut to size
Schwalbe Dureme folding bead tire, 26x2.0in Only if going to a really remote area. For a long tour I start with new tyres.
For road use, I find 26" x 50 mm Schwalbe Supremes are good for at least 10,000 kms.
I'd fit Duremes instead if going to a place with bad road surfaces.
Ortlieb pannier backing nut for lower stabilizer fin I don't bother as I have already doubled the fins on all 4 bags and the hooks on the
rear bags (merci Dan for that idea)
spare CR2032 battery for bike computer I take a complete spare bike computer, as I don't have a smartphone or GPS and need the bike
computer for distances and to tell the time.
4in locking mini needle-nose Vise-Grips Not quite the same utility, I have a Facom 6" adjustable end wrench instead
w/cutter and plier jaws
Stuff not mentioned by Dan that I (always or sometimes) take:
1.5 mm Allen key This fits something on one of my bikes, so is in my basic toolkit. Weighs almost nothing
Several small rags to prevent tools from rattling/wipe hands. In my basic toolkit
Piece of Kojak folding tyre for use as a large tyre boot. In my basic toolkit, a long time ago this was useful to patch an otherwise unusable tyre.
Valve core tool. In my basic toolkit. Used fairly often. Weighs very little.
3 small safety pins. In my basic toolkit.
Small grease tub (or syringe). For long tours. Not used very often.
Crank extractor, depending on bike. For long tours. Some crank models I have need a special extractor which would be difficult
to find on tour (even in a bike shop)
Spare spokes (length depends on bike used). For long tours. Never needed them on tour yet. Generally taped to a seatstay.
Spare Rohloff sprocket. For long tours. Probably unnecessary with a Chainglider.
Spare bayonet connector for Rohloff. For long tours. When changing cables it is easy to damage the Allen key bolt in these.
Hub cable easy set for Rohloff, with instruction sheet. For very long tours. Only needed with the Rohloff internal mech. It would probably make
more sense to change the internal gear cables preemptively, as for a motor vehicle fan belt
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Those are comprehensive lists! My only comment is that I've adjusted the EBB by putting the end of a suitably-sized Allen key into one of the holes and nudging it round with the crank (after slackening the EBB fixing fixing bolts).
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thanks for all of this, really good advice
very glad to have joined the forum
when we get our new bikes I'll post a photograph
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I hope your new bikes are with you very soon - if not yet arrived. My wife and I bought two Thorn Raven Sport Tours on August 17 2010. We have them still and they have never missed a (serious) beat.
We have completed 5 month long tours and very many shorter trips. We suffered one puncture and the eccentric hub on one bike worked loose once in that time. That is it. No other mechanicals whatsoever. We are credit card bike tourers and all our trips have been in the UK or Europe. I carried some chain lube, a couple of spare tubes in case of punctures, a decent pump, a few spare spokes (never needed), a couple of spare cables (not used), a decent multitool and the 15mm 'fancy' spanner supplied for chain adjustment. Oh, and a rag for cleaning, some cable ties and a wad of duct tape (again the latter two unused).
In Europe, how far are you going to be from a bike shop for repairs? Relax and enjoy. They are brilliant bikes. All the best. :-)
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This is all I think that is needed for a tour of up to 5000Km in distance (about 4 months of touring for us) in an area with limited bike shops. Longer than that the only extra item needed is an Rohloff oil change kit.
The multi-tool includes all the usual hex tools plus a chain splitter, spoke tool, tyre levers, screw drivers etc. The extra tools are a Brooks saddle wrench, cable measuring tool for the Rohloff cables, chain-ring tool, mini-cable cutter and mini-pliers.
The spares are Rohloff and brake cables, brake inserts, spare tube, patches, and rubber adhesive, plus a few 5mm hex bolts and washers. The syringe has grease. Chain lubricant is bought at the starting point of the tour - wax based if in dry environments otherwise a wet lube.
I have often carried more than this but over thirty thousand kilometers of touring in, mostly, the developing world, I haven't used half of this let alone all the stuff I have stopped carrying over time.
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From the Living with brochure.
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can't upload a photo because of the file size, any ideas ?
bikes are great!
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meant to add thanks for all the hints and tips, really appreciate that!
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can't upload a photo because of the file size, any ideas ?
Either upload the photo to a photo-sharing website and post the link here or use some image resizing software to reduce the resolution and file size.
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Thanks for the extensive lists. I notice that the "Living with Rohloff" picture has a set of Rohloff torx screws and pawl springs.
I assume the torx screws are for the main hub seal. Does anyone carry spares?
Are the pawl springs for Rohloff, and if so, are they field serviceable?
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Thanks for the extensive lists. I notice that the "Living with Rohloff" picture has a set of Rohloff torx screws and pawl springs.
I assume the torx screws are for the main hub seal. Does anyone carry spares?
Are the pawl springs for Rohloff, and if so, are they field serviceable?
I suppose you could lose them if you have to do a cable change on an internal mech. The pawl springs just drop in the appropriate holes, so they can easily drop out again. I don't know why the screws, they'd be harder to lose, maybe if you ever changing the cable in the long grass... but why would you? Otherwise I suppose you might damage the head if it was hard to remove, but the point of Torx is that that's hard to do.
I don't carry either, though neither do I do long and exotic tours.
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I use the file size reduction option in my email app and then email it to myself. Quick and easy.
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Thanks for the extensive lists. I notice that the "Living with Rohloff" picture has a set of Rohloff torx screws and pawl springs.
I assume the torx screws are for the main hub seal. Does anyone carry spares?
Are the pawl springs for Rohloff, and if so, are they field serviceable?
I think if you ask a 100 people what to carry on a tour, you get 100 answers that are different. So, you are getting a compendium on different answers based on different experiences.
I am in USA, so I have slighly different options for brands and models of things like tools, etc.
You asked about skills. I built up my bikes from parts, thus when I travel I bring all my skills with me. It is hard for me to have a list of skills you should acquire. That said, you clearly need to know how to change an inner tube, adjust your chain tension, replace a gear or brake cable. If you adjust your handlebar height or change a stem, you need to know how to get your headset adjustment right. I would say these are the must have skills you need.
For two people with new Ravens built up by SJS, I am not sure if you would need to know how to true up a wheel or replace a spoke, these skills are less likely to actually need so perhaps this you could skip. If you were on a derailleur bike that you bought off the shelf, I would say one of you should know how to true up a wheel and replace a spoke. Or instead of a spoke, a Fiber Fix Emergency Spoke.
My Rohloff bike is a rim brake Nomad Mk II with S&S, not a Raven, thus I am clueless on the internal gear cable. If it was me, I would probably carry a spare and find a good Youtube video on how to replace that.
Since most of your route will be in places where bike shops are frequent, you can probably get by with a minimal amount of spares.
I do not carry spare Rohloff screws like you mentioned, I also do not carry spare pawl springs and I would not know how to fix them.
First photo below is the took kit I carried two years ago on a five week tour.
My S&S wrench on the far left is for my S&S couplers that you do not have. I also have a short stub of 8mm allen wrench that I can put in the S&S 8mm box wrench to use on crank arms and my crank puller. I also have a crank puller that I need to pack my bike in the S&S case. These are things you are unlikely to need.
That S&S wrench also functions as a pedal wrench. You should probably have a good wrench for your pedals, whether that is a long arm allen wrench or a 15mm open end wrench is up to you to decide.
I have a tiny little multi-tool that is in my pocket during the day for little things that pop up, the big multi-tool stays in my tool kit, the multi-tools are above the swiss army knife. I think the big one is a Crank Brothers, but there are many good multi-tools out there. I have also carried an Alien II instead, but that is a bit bigger and heavier.
Most multi-tools do not include a T20 wrench, make sure you have one. I have a bit of yellow tape on mine so that I do not need to wear my glasses to find it.
Small side cutter, when I pack up my bike for transport I use a lot of zip ties, you might not need a side cutter like this.
My two blue color plastic drinking straws are 100mm long, you do not need to measure 200mm of cable like I might have to with my EX box, skip those.
Small utility knife.
Small worn out toothbrush in case I need to clean mud off something.
Tiny pliers.
An 8mm and 10mm ratcheting box wrench. When I travel with my Nomad, I have to disassemble the bike and reassemble it, this wrench is for some of my rack bolts.
The three orange handle allen wrenches are a good size for leverage and ease of use, they are 3mm, 4mm, and 5mm.
Upper right is a spoke wrench and a Rohloff threaded sprocket removal tool.
Above list mostly stays in the bottom of a pannier, I like to have the dense stuff low in pannier for lower center of gravity.
Second photo is my patch kit and spare tubes, this goes in a triangular shaped bag on my frame. Two tubes. Some disposable medical grade gloves for doing dirty work on a bike, tire lever, a 5mm allen wrench, some self adhesive patches. I use the liquid patch kits at home, on a bike tour just use the self adhesive patches. Not shown is the pump which is on the bike frame, usually carry a Lezyne Micro Floor Drive pump with gauge but might instead use a Road Morph G, both are good pumps. The reason that there is a 5mm allen wrench with my spare tubes is because I use bolt on skewers when touring (Halo, extra long) instead of quick release, those skewers take a 5mm wrench. Some tires are very hard to get on and off a rim, some are so easy that you do not need a tire lever. Bring sufficient levers of adequate strength for what you have. Not shown in photo are some rectangles of Tyvek that I can use as a tire boot. I keep some with each spare tube, I cut them from postal envelopes.
Some trips I bring a spare folding tire, some I do not. I think for your planned trip, a spare would be good. When I carry a spare, it is not a "replacement" tire to replace one that gets cut, instead it is a light weight folding tire that is good enough to get me to a bike shop, not one to ride thousands of km. Over time, 26 inch tires are becoming harder to find in a bike shop, so for two of you, you might instead consider a replacement tire instead of a just-good-enough-for short-distances one.
Chain lube (no photo) is in my handlebar bag, so if my chain is noisy, I know it needs lube and if the lube is quite handy I am more inclined to use it in a timely fashion.
I do not have a good single photo of spares, list is:
- zip ties.
- spare brake and spare gear cable. I now carry a pre-cut gear cable to correct length, but did not initially have it pre-cut.
- one set of brake pads for one wheel.
- variety of spare nuts and bolts and washers. My stem cap bolt will also function as a seatpost bolt so I do not carry a spare one of those.
- roll of electrical tape.
- some chain links and a spare quick link or two.
Rack bolts can be a show stopper if one falls out. I use a threadlocker like locktite on my rack bolts.
A lot of this stuff you only need one of for a small group. But inner tubes and other stuff that someone might need to keep rolling if you are separated, each should carry their own.
I have heard a variety of stories about how good your bike locks need to be on part of your route. I will let you research that yourself. A few years ago I met a woman that started her bike tour in the UK, planned to go around the world. All her stuff including her bike was stolen in Bulgaria or near there. She kept going but the replacement stuff she bought was not that great. I met her in central USA after she had traveled east through asia and then flew to west coast of USA. Her bike was one that I would not have wanted to tour on more than a few hundred miles, but her really good stuff was stolen so she had little choice. Situational awareness is important, if you are nervous, leave fast.
Start your trip with a chain that is new enough that you will not need a replacement chain or sprocket. Same with tires. But I think it best to put 100 km on anything new before you leave home to make sure you did not get a defective one.
Have a great trip.
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I hope the attachment photo of my new bike works this time
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Theres a happy man for sure. Go faster red too. #result!
😃
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Looks great :)
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Excellent. I'll be popping up to see you both soon.
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First tour on the new bikes completed, 350 km loop of Aberdeenshire. Bikes performed well and managed to climb the Suie hill, just south of Clatt and north of Alford fully laden. This involves a long climb which goes to 12.9% in places. We have a 42 t at the front and a 19t at the back. Happy with the low range that gave us and never ran out at the top end. Aberdeenshire is hilly!
Our route was, Elgin to Alford to Peterhead to Turriff to Elgin.
I'll sleep well tonight!