Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: Matt2matt2002 on June 29, 2016, 12:13:22 PM
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Pardon the language but my front forks were badly damaged on the flight from UK to Sri Lanka.
Unable to post pictures at the moment but one of the forks was definitely out of line.
I had used a fork spacer when I packed the bike but that was missing from the ripped open end of the box!
I was unable to insert the axel across the fork ends. It was that much out of line.
This was on day one of my 30 day tour. Not happy.
Leaving aside my claim against the airline; long story, separate post.
A local bike shop manager to realign the fork ends enough to get me back on the road . 101 km today and wheels looks true without any brake rubbing etc.
I can see that the spindle is not 100% through the forks but enough to tighten things up.
What is best to do on my return?
Can local bike shops re set the forks or is it a job for SJS?
Enjoying Sri Lanka, now that I'm back on the road.
More posts on that subject to follow.
Thanks folks
Matt
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Really sorry to hear about that especially at the start of a tour. Fork damage is always a concern although at least steel is a generally forgiving material. Check carefully for any signs of cracking especially at the welds. I might be tempted to buy a new set on return for peace of mind.
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So sorry to hear what has befallen the Old Bird, Matt, but very glad the rest of the bike appears okay and your tour was not delayed.
The good news is, Thorn's replacement forks are a tremendous bargain, considering the engineering and work put into them, and they are available pre-powdercoated to match your frame paint at very good prices. There are three models available for your Raven Tour, depending on your original fork rake (a match determined by frame size so handling will remain the same):
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/search/?term=raven%20tour%20fork&geoc=US&vat=INC
Be careful on downhills, as the handling may have changed.
Do take care and know good thoughts go with you.
All the best,
Dan.
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My last touring bike (non Thorn) had its forks mangled by baggage handlers once. Luckily it was when returning home at the end of a tour. I took it to a local frame builder and he re aligned them and checked them over. I carried on using them for another ten years no problem. Superseded by my Sherpa now, but they are still in the shed.
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The good news is, Thorn's replacement forks are a tremendous bargain
And they're beautiful too, especially that zweidecker design that SJS calls "twin plate".
Takeaways, Matt: inspect under a strong light for cracks, especially in the welds, and take care on the downhills until you understand whether and how the handling of the bike has been changed by the involuntary new "geometry" of your fork.
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Sorry to hear about your disaster. I am no expert so wouldn't take the risk, and would replace them, especially if you load the front end or go downhills fast!
Andy
Shetland
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Thanks folks.
600+ km now on the damaged forks.
There is some shuddering when I use the front brake but tracking is fine.
All flat roads so far so no hard braking .
Hills should start in a week or so.
I will certainly be very careful then.
Just using rear panniers on this tour.
Matt
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So sorry to hear what has befallen the Old Bird, Matt, but very glad the rest of the bike appears okay and your tour was not delayed.
The good news is, Thorn's replacement forks are a tremendous bargain, considering the engineering and work put into them, and they are available pre-powdercoated to match your frame paint at very good prices. There are three models available for your Raven Tour, depending on your original fork rake (a match determined by frame size so handling will remain the same):
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/search/?term=raven%20tour%20fork&geoc=US&vat=INC
Be careful on downhills, as the handling may have changed.
Do take care and know good thoughts go with you.
All the best,
Dan. UB
I'm having problems identifying the correct fork, Dan.
My frame number is
587L07013
I can't see a reference for that size.
Perhaps all this heat has gone to my head?
;)
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Hi Matt!
By your serial number, you have a size 587L (Long tip tube) frame. I see SJS Cycles lists a replacement fork for the 587S (Short top tube) frame here:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/26-thorn-531-raven-tour-twin-plate-steel-fork-54-mm-offset-black/?geoc=US
I can't imagine the length of the top tube would affect fork rake, but it would be best to check with SJS Cycles first before ordering. The fork offsets aren't listed in the original Raven Tour brochure:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070818182847/http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/thornpdf/ThornRavenTourBroHiRes.pdf
All the best,
Dan.
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This one appears to fit the long top tube Raven Tours including the 587L:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/26-thorn-531-raven-tour-twin-plate-steel-fork-48-mm-offset-dark-green-gloss/
It appears that the Long TT frames have 48mm offset, 54mm offset for most of the short TT frames and 60mm offset for the smallest short TT frames.
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Yay! Great job, Mac'; thanks!
Dan.
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Yay! Great job, Mac'; thanks!
Dan.
Ditto.
😀
I'm awaiting a reply from SJS
Matt
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I don't suppose it is helpful, but this thread is fascinating, life and death stuff in farflung corners of hot, exotic places. It's the shiver-making stuff of Boy's Own fiction, which, when turned into a TV dramadoc, will star Michael Palin as Matt the Intrepid.
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...which, when turned into a TV dramadoc, will star Michael Palin as Matt the Intrepid.
I figured on casting a not-old Harrison Ford as Matt; he already has a fedora and bullwhip, both items likely to be useful to Our Mr. Newton as he enters the Sri Lankan uplands....
Best,
Dan.
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Funny you should mention Michael Palin
My brother in law is a dead ringer for him.
Still waiting to hear from SJS
I had hoped to order it from here so I could have it waiting for me when I return.
I guess a local bike shop in UK could take a look but I'm not sure I'll ever trust them again.
Continuing my ride and topped 1,000+ km today. No fork problems. The bike rides like dream. Rohloff so silent.
Some local folks were giving it the once over today and I overheard one of them say, " Belt drive".
It must have been my Chaingliger fooling them.
😉
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Just had a reply from SJS
Hi Matthew
Dave is away for the rest of the week so I will help if i may.
It would be worth checking the rake on the fork to ensure we match the rake with the current ones fitted. If you drop the fork out it will have a number stamped into the steerer tube and this is going to be the rake of the fork. I have added the link of the forks that will suit below and just make sure you pick the right rake and colour. You may find we no longer stock the exact rake but if your states 50mm then I would opt for a 48mm as 2mm will not affect the steering so just match up as close as possible if you cannot find the exact match.
How easy is it to drop the forks out? I've not done that before.
I'm inclined to leave it until I get home incase I make things worse and scupper the rest of my tour here.
Do I need special tools?
Thanks folks
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Just had a reply from SJS
Hi Matthew
Dave is away for the rest of the week so I will help if i may.
It would be worth checking the rake on the fork to ensure we match the rake with the current ones fitted. If you drop the fork out it will have a number stamped into the steerer tube and this is going to be the rake of the fork. I have added the link of the forks that will suit below and just make sure you pick the right rake and colour. You may find we no longer stock the exact rake but if your states 50mm then I would opt for a 48mm as 2mm will not affect the steering so just match up as close as possible if you cannot find the exact match.
How easy is it to drop the forks out? I've not done that before.
I'm inclined to leave it until I get home incase I make things worse and scupper the rest of my tour here.
Do I need special tools?
Thanks folks
Hi Matt,
It is quite easy to remove the forks, simply undo the headset bolts, lift off the cap, lift off the stem and bars that will be suspended by the cables, store the spacers and slide the forks down. You might not need to remove completely to read the number, so that means the bearings etc will all stay in roughly the right place. In an old frame some encouragement might be needed as steerer tubes can be corroded. Personally, I'd wait until you get back and leave well alone as you are currently functional.
Keep focused on the tour, not the bike, that's why you've got a Thorn!
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Keep focused on the tour, not the bike, that's why you've got a Thorn!
Yo, Dan, you may wish to inscribe this wisdom over the entry door to the Forum. That's the sort of line a fellow paid more than the President of the US in an ad agency writes once or twice in a lifetime, and then receives many honors for his cleverness.
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True, that, Andre! :)
Best,
Dan.
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Keep focused on the tour, not the bike, that's why you've got a Thorn!
Yo, Dan, you may wish to inscribe this wisdom over the entry door to the Forum. That's the sort of line a fellow paid more than the President of the US in an ad agency writes once or twice in a lifetime, and then receives many honors for his cleverness.
Thanks for the kind remarks Andre. As the brevity of my posts demonstrates, I am a man of few words but some of them come out in the right order.
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It takes very little effort to drop the fork out and look at it, but if you have not done that before it is best done at home because you have to get the bearing pressure set right when you reassemble it. It is easy to learn and do, but it is probably best done at home the first time.
When I take a fork out, I immediately put all the headset parts and spacers on the fork steerer tube in the CORRECT order to make it easier to reassemble in the CORRECT order and oriented properly. And if unsure, a photo before you start may come in handy to get the right number of spacers in the right number of places.
Photo is of my Nomad fork headset parts, the rubber band holds it all from falling off. The cups of course stay pressed into the frame, not shown in photo.
I do not recall how expensive the headset race that is pressed onto the fork is, but I think it was really cheap when I bought one for my suspension fork. If you change forks, you will either need to get the one off the fork and onto the other fork, or get a new one to install. I suggest you have the bike shop press a new one onto the fork, or maybe have SJS do that if you buy a new fork. And a new star nut may be needed on a new fork.
I tried to attach a PDF document, I do not know if that will attach or not.
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Progress.
:) :)
I'm not sure if I mentioned here but when I flew out to Sri Lanka from Edinburgh last month, I was not charged for my bike.
I was expecting to pay 90 Euro.
This is what I was charged on my return journey.
The forks were damaged and although a local guy got me back on the road - for 1,600Km - I thought it best to buy a new set.
The cost was about equal to my 'freebie'.
Karma? Whatever - I now have a brand new set.
And am not out of pocket - so to speak.
SJS were great when I called - finding a set not listed on their site and posting straightaway.
I had managed to drop the forks enough to see the code number printed inside.
Well wrapped
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ctgEM2YMxlGulWoPL3yT4Teabbak-4uz3DDD7k806aiMJwbDs24alobN8laWeZF1CMR7n5oQrg=w1280-h1024-rw-no)
Nice?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1rNB8HFWzy8/V6IZBch4nuI/AAAAAAAALwA/WvrLdjARGCg3SnEYq4PpfTKCHeMDjTanwCL0B/w530-d-h707-p-rw/DSC00310.jpg)
But here is my old pair still attached. There appears to be a loose washer?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/O2Q8OrsQd-XCpHqRge8sqNpCSJ9bEar1RGsA_laHGWCLco12VbK8Tor7KM23rtVQ9rU72wr4zw=w1280-h1024-rw-no)
There doesn't appear to be anything on the new forks?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9d-V80Q0-IgP8ITiRamMIUPdJjQl2C0vczH7GeElSB_-jnSbDhcn_X1StuGd3hwXz400vyZskg=w1280-h1024-rw-no)
Do I just slide the new forks in?
Is this grease Ok to use?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-thhlafXr3BA/V6IZ9Dr9uhI/AAAAAAAALxs/svKgQTFkV4UDCV8CLZsx2RIOk_Olhm5rgCL0B/w530-d-h398-p-rw/DSC00314.jpg)
Many thanks folks
Here's one fron Sri Lanka
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RGcF70TVFrA6ig_Iw_5EvPZsbS0dDzdbb5QngV6fiQrpFuGCKEyHIqHDk7ijdMbBiWqxRLhKg=w1280-h1024-rw-no)
More to follow when I sort out the stats and details of the tour
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You need a bearing crown race fitted onto your new forks Matt. You may or may not be able to transfer the one on your old forks.
Here is what you need if your headset is an FSA Orbit xl 2 or the equivalent Cane Creek version, https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/headsets/fsa-headset-orbit-xlii-crown-race-for-1-18-inch/
Easiest thing would have been to get SJS to fit one before they sent them out, but too late for that now.
The 'washer' in your photo is probably the seal from the lower bearing, it just pushes into place around the inner edge of the headset cup once the bearing is in place.
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I do not know why, but my computer did not show the photos in Firefox, but when I loaded up Chrome it showed your photos fine. So, if anyone else asks where your photos are, just tell them to try another browser.
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There doesn't appear to be anything on the new forks?
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I tried to save you from this headache when I above noted:
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I do not recall how expensive the headset race that is pressed onto the fork is, but I think it was really cheap when I bought one for my suspension fork. If you change forks, you will either need to get the one off the fork and onto the other fork, or get a new one to install. I suggest you have the bike shop press a new one onto the fork, or maybe have SJS do that if you buy a new fork. And a new star nut may be needed on a new fork.
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I assume you have not yet got a star nut, that is one more thing that you probably need. Or if not a star nut, something that your stem cap bolt can screw into.
A more costly option is one of the expanding nut thingys that people use on carbon forks, but I would only go that option if you can't find a star nut. I used one of those as a temporary fix on one bike I built up because I was not sure if I would cut the steerer tube or not. I prefer to only install a star nut when I am done doing any cutting on steerer tubes.
If you cut your steerer tube with a hacksaw, I wrap some tape all the way around it. If I do not get the tape perfectly perpendicular, then I immediately know that so I can take the tape off and reapply. Then I saw it on the edge of the tape, if my cut is not perfectly straight it is evident as I am sawing. If you do the tape thing, it may be best to mark the tape on which side of the tape to cut.