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Community => Rohloff Internal Hub Gears => Topic started by: martinf on January 04, 2016, 08:17:03 PM

Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: martinf on January 04, 2016, 08:17:03 PM: You should soon have the possibility of a 38x18, with the new splined Rohloff sprockets in 13T to 19T plus 21T and thread/spline adapter due out in March 2016.
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Hoodatder on January 04, 2016, 09:43:08 PM: Quote from: geocycle on January 04, 2016, 03:44:05 PM
Hoot: There 'may' be a slight fly in the ointment. I noticed in one of your posts you have an RST? I tried fitting a chainglider to my RST after having much satisfaction with one on the RT but it never quite worked. It did go on but rubs against the seat stay as the clearance is quite tight. This meant that the glide was never as smooth as on the RT and I rubbed the paint off the frame. If you try it make sure you mask the contact point and be prepared to do some surgery on the end of the glider.

Thanks martinf,

but will it address the problem mentions above? What is a splined sprocket?

Thanks

Hoot
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: mickeg on January 04, 2016, 10:07:08 PM: Quote from: hoodatder on January 04, 2016, 09:43:08 PM
... What is a splined sprocket?

Thanks

Hoot

Rohloff is changing from a threaded on sprocket (I call it a cog) to a threaded on carrier, then you can put a splined cog on the splined carrier.

http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/sprockets/index.html

I wish they would make a 20 tooth cog. More teeth on the rear cog will result in less chain wear. But I want to stay with the even number of teeth theory, so I have no interest in a 19 or 21.

http://sheldonbrown.com/chain-life.html

On the other hand, the spline system increases chainline by 4mm, mine is already off by 5mm and that would result in my chainline being off by 9mm. I have many years to go before I need a new cog, so I have plenty of time to decide which option to use, an old style threaded on cog or a new splined carrier and cog.
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: martinf on January 05, 2016, 05:39:56 AM: Quote from: hoodatder on January 04, 2016, 09:43:08 PM
but will it address the problem mentions above? What is a splined sprocket?

I have an RT, not an RST, so I can't be sure. The 4 mm increased chainline with the new splined sprockets might help, as the chainglider should theoretically be positioned 4 mm further out from the frame as compared to the situation with the current threaded sprockets.

One downside with the increased chainline is that a new bottom bracket unit might be necessary to move the crank/chainring out.
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Hoodatder on January 05, 2016, 02:33:28 PM: Ok, here goes,
Quote from: martinf on January 04, 2016, 08:17:03 PM
You should soon have the possibility of a 38x18, with the new splined Rohloff sprockets in 13T to 19T plus 21T and thread/spline adapter due out in March 2016.

That's good - it fits in with Sheldon's theory of extended chain life and gives the lower gearing.

Quote from: hoodatder on January 04, 2016, 09:43:08 PM
but will it address the problem mentions above? What is a splined sprocket?

But applying mickeg's theory (nay, actual practice) of using a derailleur type chain, there should be enough slap / wing;e / waggle to accommodate this slight deviation and not have the hassle / expense of another bottom bracket. Incidentally, for the avoidance of doubt, do you mean eccentric bottom bracket. That was not a facetious question.

Quote from: geocycle on January 04, 2016, 03:44:05 PM
Hoot: There 'may' be a slight fly in the ointment. I noticed in one of your posts you have an RST? I tried fitting a chainglider to my RST after having much satisfaction with one on the RT but it never quite worked. It did go on but rubs against the seat stay as the clearance is quite tight. This meant that the glide was never as smooth as on the RT and I rubbed the paint off the frame. If you try it make sure you mask the contact point and be prepared to do some surgery on the end of the glider.

If fitting the splined sprocket takes it 4mm -5mm away from the seat stay, then this will eliminate the chafing and also remove the need for corrective surgery, I hope. Sometimes I think it's easier and less stressful to spec and buy another bike. Judging by the amount of moths that flew out when I opened my wallet, I consider that a sign of healthy status, although the thrupenny bits and tanners gave a modicum of concern. ::)

Thanks all

Hoot
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: mickeg on January 05, 2016, 03:28:50 PM: According to this:

http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/sprockets/index.html

The chainline on the new splined system will be 58mm. But current chainline is 54mm (except for the 13T sprocket which is different).

Thus, your chain will be further out. I have never tried to fit a chainglider, but I assume that this will put the chainglider closer to the seatstay and if you fit a wider bottom bracket it would be further away from the chainstay.
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Hoodatder on January 05, 2016, 04:13:21 PM: Thanks mickeg,

I seem to be interpreting everything the wrong way i.e cms for mms, sprocket way from the stay, etc. I had phase 8/9 ago of getting things crossed in my head but appearing quite normal to me in front of my eyes. The quack believed it was "burn out". Fatal, when you think I was dealing with gas and hot water!!! I thought that phased had passed, but, seemingly, in conjunction with things said and done externally to this forum that phase appears to be manifesting itself. Look out world - he's back!!

Seriously, thanks for your patience and the subtle corrections - appreciated.

Hoot
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: martinf on January 05, 2016, 09:06:45 PM: Quote from: hoodatder on January 05, 2016, 02:33:28 PM
But applying mickeg's theory (nay, actual practice) of using a derailleur type chain, there should be enough slap / wing;e / waggle to accommodate this slight deviation and not have the hassle / expense of another bottom bracket. Incidentally, for the avoidance of doubt, do you mean eccentric bottom bracket. That was not a facetious question.

If the current chainline is spot on, a 4 mm deviation shouldn't be too bad, although I would prefer to adjust the front end, by fitting a longer bottom bracket unit, the part that fits inside the eccentric, or maybe spacers to move the current bottom bracket unit outboard if that is possible (done that without problems but not yet on a Thorn frame).
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: martinf on January 05, 2016, 09:12:19 PM: Quote from: mickeg on January 05, 2016, 03:28:50 PM
Thus, your chain will be further out. I have never tried to fit a chainglider, but I assume that this will put the chainglider closer to the seatstay.

Mickeg is right and I am wrong - an increase in chainline will make fitting a Chainglider to an RST more difficult, not easier.
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: John Saxby on January 06, 2016, 12:30:35 AM: If I understand Rohloff's product info correctly, the "splined carrier" (article # 8540) in the parts list at the bottom of the page in the link above, fits onto an existing Speedhub, and accepts a new, splined sprocket.

If one fits the splined carrier (an "adapter", in my jargon) to an existing hub, does the chainline remain 54mm, or does it increase to 58?

I couldn't chase down the exploded-hub photo of the new adapter/splined carrier on the Rohloff site. From the photo in the link below (from a thread on crazyguy a few months back) it looked to me as if the chainline would remain constant if the splined carrier were mated to an existing hub. Here's the link:
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/forum/board/message/?o=tS&thread_id=670360&page=1&nested=0&v=L#670439 (https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/forum/board/message/?o=tS&thread_id=670360&page=1&nested=0&v=L#670439)
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Andre Jute on January 06, 2016, 12:46:14 AM: If there's already interference between the seat stay and the Chainglider, an 8mm wider tread ("Q factor" for the trendies) (4mm extra per side, from 54mm to 58mm) will very likely make the Chainglider impossible to fit. The side of the Chainglider channel is definitely not more than 4mm thick, so the chain would soon be exposed.

In fact, I wonder whether, Chainglider aside, when the new Rohloff cog is fitted to those Raven sizes which already have too little clearance to fit a Chainglider, the chain itself won't scrape against the seat stay. Perhaps one of the forum members who adjusted their Chainglider with a blade or sandpaper can eyeball the clearance and give us a definitive answer. I imagine future Ravens of those sizes will be built with clearances that take the 58mm Rohloff chainline into consideration.

DEFINITION OF CHAINLINE

It should be noted that Rohloff expects the transmission chain to be fitted with a chainline that deviates no more than 1mm from the 54mm spec; if the same applies to the new cog's 58mm chainline, a new bottom bracket and/or crankset would be required, so that changing the cog could become expensive.

For the purposes of those who are confused about what the chainline is, which must be more than Hootadder (and certainly included me until Sheldon, blessed be his name, straightened me out), the chainline is the entire run of chain between the chainring and the rear sprocket, which should parallel the longitudinal centreline of the bike for the entire run of the chain. The chainline is taken in the centre of the chain, perpendicular to the longitudinal centreline of the bike. If there is only one chainring, the chainline runs over it, if there are two chainrings (very uncommon in Rohloff installations), the chainline is taken centrally between the two chainrings, if there are three chainrings (almost unheard of in Rohloff installations -- why would anyone do anything so stupid?), the middle chainring defines the chainline. Similar adaptations are made when more than one sprocket is fitted on the rear axle.
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: mickeg on January 06, 2016, 01:23:26 AM: For those of you that plan to use the new splined system when it comes out, maybe the discussion should be a new thread instead of continuing on the what is your Rohloff ratio thread.

I probably will stay with the threaded rear sprocket (or I call it a cog) instead of the new splined one and won't be using a chainglider, so good luck everyone, I am bowing out of this conversation.
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Andre Jute on January 06, 2016, 01:33:50 AM: [There is already a very extensive thread on possible Rohloff chainring and cog combos at http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4412.0 which newbies should read all the way through as I expect much of the wisdom in there will not be repeated here.] [Slight edit for continuity after splitting and merging topics -- Dan.]

Rohloff now has two different fitments of drive sprocket (screw-on and splined), with two different chainlines (54 and 58mm), and, most important, with new permissible torque ratios (Rohloff calls them "transmission factors"), 1.9 for solo riders under 100kg, and 2.5 for solo riders over 100kg and tandems.

There are thus now the pre-existing threaded sprockets with 13, 15, 16 or 17 teeth, plus splined sprockets with 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 or 21 teeth. The splined sprockets can be fitted to existing Rohloff hub gearboxes via an adaptor Rohloff will also supply. The splined sprockets will be cheaper than the threaded sprockets.

(http://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_splined_c178ea2ae6.png)
Splined sprocket adapter for Rohloff Speedhub 14 and splined sprocket. Photo courtesy Rohloff.

So, let's say you have a 40 tooth chainring already fitted or lurking in your spares, and you want a real stump puller of a loaded touring bike, which sprocket can you fit? 40/1.9 = 21. You can fit the 21 tooth sprocket without breaking Rohloff's rules, given you weigh under 100kg. If you weigh more than 100kg or ride a tandem, then 40/2.5 = 16, so you have to fit the 16 tooth sprocket, but you now have a choice of threaded or splined sprockets.

Here are some combos specifically sanctioned by Rolloff for sub-100kg solo riders: 32/17, 30/16, 28/15 and 26/13.

For the over 100kg solo rider and for tandems, Rohloff now sanctions 34/13, 38/15, 40/16, 42/17.

Larger chainrings can be used without limit.

Other combinations are also permitted within the torque ratios specified for the weight classes/applications, for instance by using the new 18, 19 and 21 tooth sprockets. I've given worked examples above.

The choice is now much wider. Deliveries will start in March 2016.

The only information I can currently find is the bare announcement at http://www.rohloff.de/en/news/news/news/detail/News/product-news-2016-eurobike-2015/index.html but the new torque input ratio has already shown up in the older pages for the existing threaded sprockets.
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Andre Jute on January 06, 2016, 01:52:52 AM: Quote from: mickeg on January 06, 2016, 01:23:26 AM
For those of you that plan to use the new splined system when it comes out, maybe the discussion should be a new thread instead of continuing on the what is your Rohloff ratio thread.

Great minds think alike. (Mind you, my English teacher, Sam Bosman, a great man who helped shape my life with admirable wisdom, used to add, "but fools never differ.")

The new thread is at
Latest Rohloff transmission combos: which chainring and cog for you? (http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=11576.msg84230#msg84230[/url)
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=11576.msg84230#msg84230 (http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=11576.msg84230#msg84230)
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: John Saxby on January 06, 2016, 02:20:03 AM: Quote
changing the cog could become expensive

My thoughts exactly, Andre. Ummm, we'll only need a new thread if the adapter/splined carrier mated to an existing hub changes the chainline to 58mm. Rohloff's website is coy on that matter.

I'd be interested in getting the adapter so as to fit a splined sprocket when my current threaded sprocket wears out...but I've also assumed that my sprocket, BB and knees will exit stage right more or less en groupe, ages hence, so the issue may be a cow's opinion. (A moooot point, that is.)
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Danneaux on January 06, 2016, 03:05:36 AM: Methinks it would be a Very Good Idea to sometimes remove the thread-to-spline adapter occasionally for regreasing to avoid having the carrier seize in place. :o

Looking at how to split the thread with minimal modification to the posts already made....
[...annnnnd, done]

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: martinf on January 06, 2016, 05:59:15 AM: Checked my Raven Tour this morning. There is currently about 1,5 mm of clearance between Chainglider and seatstay, with the 54 mm chainline. So in my case, fitting splined sprockets at 58 mm chainline would require cutting the Chainglider .
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Andre Jute on January 06, 2016, 07:01:12 AM: John: My current sprocket has done only 8500km, zero signs of wear, in large part because I take trouble to arrange a perfect 54mm chainline, I have an unused spare as well, and I'm happy with my current setup (44x16T), so I'll wait and see how stressful removing the sprocket lock is time before I decide whether I need the adapter/splined sprocket which will require a whole new engineering job at the front. I rather suspect I'll be the last Rohloffie to give up the threaded sprockets, unless it is you! Also, though I've had a quick look, clearances on my bike are 1mm off the showroom floor -- owners are not encouraged to mess with it! -- so the new chainline may not fit at all.

Martin: Thanks for the check. Seems to me possible, even likely, that an extra 4mm on the chainline will bring the chain uncomfortably close to the paintwork, never mind the Chainglider. But Raven owners will have to check on a bike by bike basis, because we already know that some bikes have clearance and some have less. I suppose it is one of the costs of owning a bike which is properly scaled to size. (Paramount in the States sells a Gunnar which in the larger sizes is grotesquely misproportioned because all rear triangle are the same size no matter how tall the seat tube. It's quite a common costsaving device for designers more interested in profit margins than good bikes.)
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Hoodatder on January 06, 2016, 08:54:35 AM: Thank you all for you time and effort in returning these answers. It's not out of laziness that I ask questions as I do try and look for the technical answers and photo's elsewhere but don't seem to be delving in the right places or know my way around sites.

Anyway, the upshot for me is "If it ain't broke, don't mend it". To that end I will continue to clean my machine as and when necessary. FWIW, if I hadn't doggedly pursued fitting this Chainglider to my RST, albeit thoroughly reviewed by Andre, I would have purchased the Chainglider and been disappointed that it didn't fit as per his review. Who would I have blamed then? - Hebie? - Rolloff?- Thorn? - dare I say Andre? No, I would have been to blame for being lax in my research before purchasing it. Just in case any of you are thinking that I've taken my bat and ball in or thrown the dolly out of the pram, no, au contraire, I am sincerely grateful for the input and advice received and also for the quips that we have remembered from our mentors.

Please be aware that I am now more informed than before and you all have saved me an expensive and hugely frustrating error. To quote Clint Eastwood - "A man's gotta know his limitations" - and I know mine - that's the clever part 8)

Adios amigos

Hoot
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Andre Jute on January 06, 2016, 09:37:12 AM: It's one of the functions of a user group to save you money on components that don't match your bike!
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop on January 06, 2016, 10:31:12 AM: New sprocket carrier increases chain-line by 3mm, we have mocked a few up on our machines and it just means we will have to alter the bottom bracket length on some builds.
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Donerol on January 06, 2016, 10:50:48 AM: Quote from: Andre Jute on January 06, 2016, 07:01:12 AM
Seems to me possible, even likely, that an extra 4mm on the chainline will bring the chain uncomfortably close to the paintwork...

Please excuse my ignorance but I don't understand this. As I (?mis-)understand it the chainline is the distance from the chainring to the centre of the seat tube. So why doesn't a longer bottom bracket giving an extra 4mm move the chainline OUT and therefore further from the paintwork?
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Hoodatder on January 06, 2016, 02:43:12 PM: Quote from: Donerol on January 06, 2016, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: Andre Jute on January 06, 2016, 07:01:12 AM
Seems to me possible, even likely, that an extra 4mm on the chainline will bring the chain uncomfortably close to the paintwork...

Please excuse my ignorance but I don't understand this. As I (?mis-)understand it the chainline is the distance from the chainring to the centre of the seat tube. So why doesn't a longer bottom bracket giving an extra 4mm move the chainline OUT and therefore further from the paintwork?

I will risk sticking my newly informed and educated neck out here. :-[

Andre was referring to the paintwork on the seat stay of an RST. I wanted to fit a Chainglider and very late in the thread, martinf "rescued" the situation by informing us that fitting a Chainglider was desperately close to the seat stay on his RT and would be even closer on an RST. By also fitting a splined 18t sprocket this would increase the chainline centre taking it NEARER to the seat stay. By also increasing the sprocket centreline, one increases the chainring chainline, hence the proposed increase in the BB to maintain a perfectly straight chain. It has been the seat stay that has been the "rub" in the last few posts.

Did I get it right Dad? ;)

Hoot
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Donerol on January 06, 2016, 04:12:21 PM: Thank you - I was forgetting about the inside of the chainstay.

(from bear of little brain ;D )
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: martinf on January 06, 2016, 09:26:27 PM: Quote from: Andre Jute on January 06, 2016, 07:01:12 AM
I rather suspect I'll be the last Rohloffie to give up the threaded sprockets

Maybe not. Following my recent discovery of inadequate Chainglider clearance on my bike if I fit a splined sprocket (thanks to Hoodatder for raising the issue), I will probably order a 17T threaded spare for when my current 16T wears out and forego the advantage of easy sprocket removal on tour.

I don't mind replacing a sprocket and bottom bracket (after the current parts have done reasonable mileage), but am not keen on butchering a Chainglider.
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Andre Jute on January 06, 2016, 10:11:36 PM: Quote from: Donerol on January 06, 2016, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: Andre Jute on January 06, 2016, 07:01:12 AM
Seems to me possible, even likely, that an extra 4mm on the chainline will bring the chain uncomfortably close to the paintwork...

Please excuse my ignorance but I don't understand this. As I (?mis-)understand it the chainline is the distance from the chainring to the centre of the seat tube. So why doesn't a longer bottom bracket giving an extra 4mm move the chainline OUT and therefore further from the paintwork?

I'm here talking about the paintwork on the inside of the seat stay. If the chainline is increased (a bigger number) the chain comes closer to the inside of the seat stay.

But Dave Whittle has already tried the new Rohloff adapter and sprockets on various Thorn models and found there is enough space.

You should be aware that most of the talk here about tight space (including my remark quoted above) is only about the fitment of the popular Chainglider, and affects only a few particular models and sizes of Ravens. It seems to me the matter has been blown out of proportion, though it is of course of interest to the affected owners. The Chainglider is a desirable extra, but it is only that, a convenience extra, not an essential component to the function of your bike, which if you read the threads you will discover is also the attitude of the affected owners. To be blunt, a Chainglider is a means of keeping his hands clean for the cyclist who already has everything else, and a tool in the one-upmanship of incredible mileages on a single chain. Newbies should instead concentrate on fundamentals, like fit, security at home and on tour, luggage, safety as in lamps. I know all about that; I can vividly remember when I first came into cycling obsessing for months about parts that now I wouldn't have on my bike if I were dead.
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: mickeg on January 06, 2016, 10:15:15 PM: Quote from: Danneaux on January 06, 2016, 03:05:36 AM
...
Looking at how to split the thread with minimal modification to the posts already made....
[...annnnnd, done]

All the best,

Dan.

You might want to change the title of this thread to something like - New Splined Sprockets, Chainline, Fitting Chaingliders on Splined Sprocket Bikes, Etc.
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Danneaux on January 06, 2016, 10:45:59 PM: Quote
You might want to change the title of this thread...
Excellent Idea, which I will execute later today. I just now dropped a 0.5l bowl of hot French onion soup in the kitchen and have a mess to clean. :o :P Half the contents went between the panels on the dishwasher door, so it won't be a simple mop-up. ::)

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: macspud on January 07, 2016, 12:30:54 AM: I wonder, would the Rohloff Splined-Carrier & splined sprockets, being 58mm chainline rather than 54mm, enable non-Rohloff Chainglider rear ends to be used with a Rohloff hub. If so it may increase the range of sprocket sizes and therefore gear ratios which can be used with a Chainglider.

Fingers crossed.

It would still be preferable for Hebie to make front ends available for a wider range of chainrings.
Title: Re: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop on January 07, 2016, 12:18:49 PM: Quote
being 58mm chainline rather than 54mm

57mm, its only a 3mm increase
Title: Re: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: macspud on January 07, 2016, 04:51:02 PM: Quote from: Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop on January 07, 2016, 12:18:49 PM
Quote
being 58mm chainline rather than 54mm

57mm, its only a 3mm increase

Ah, I was just going by the Rohloff website, which has it at 58mm:
http://www.rohloff.de/de/technik/speedhub/technik/index.html
&
http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/sprockets/index.html

Anyway, the less difference between the two the better.
Title: Re: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: mickeg on January 07, 2016, 08:33:13 PM: Quote from: Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop on January 07, 2016, 12:18:49 PM
Quote
being 58mm chainline rather than 54mm

57mm, its only a 3mm increase

Rohloff website said 58mm. You say 57mm. I call the difference round off error, so I consider the two numbers to be the same.
Title: Re: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: David Simpson on January 08, 2016, 12:58:10 AM: Quote from: mickeg on January 07, 2016, 08:33:13 PM
Quote from: Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop on January 07, 2016, 12:18:49 PM
Quote
being 58mm chainline rather than 54mm

57mm, its only a 3mm increase

Rohloff website said 58mm. You say 57mm. I call the difference round off error, so I consider the two numbers to be the same.

I agree with you, since over the distance of the chainstay, a difference of 1mm is insignificant. However, Dave Whittle is a workshop supervisor at SJS, and Rohloff are German. In both cases, I would expect complete accuracy. So there is still a bit of mystery about the difference.

- Dave (not Whittle)
Title: Re: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop on January 08, 2016, 09:44:04 AM: Quote
I agree with you, since over the distance of the chainstay, a difference of 1mm is insignificant. However, Dave Whittle is a workshop supervisor at SJS, and Rohloff are German. In both cases, I would expect complete accuracy. So there is still a bit of mystery about the difference.

Mystery solved, I was working from an older document, they have since redesigned slightly and it is now 58mm, sorry for the confusion :-\
Title: Re: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: David Simpson on January 08, 2016, 03:03:33 PM: Quote from: Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop on January 08, 2016, 09:44:04 AM
Mystery solved, I was working from an older document, they have since redesigned slightly and it is now 58mm, sorry for the confusion :-\

Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: macspud on January 08, 2016, 07:37:51 PM: Quote from: davidjsimpson on January 08, 2016, 03:03:33 PM
Quote from: Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop on January 08, 2016, 09:44:04 AM
Mystery solved, I was working from an older document, they have since redesigned slightly and it is now 58mm, sorry for the confusion :-\

Thanks for the update!

Yes, thanks for the update, mystery solved. It's good to get these things nailed down. :)
Title: Re: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: il padrone on January 17, 2016, 10:55:56 PM: Quote from: macspud on January 07, 2016, 12:30:54 AM
I wonder, would the Rohloff Splined-Carrier & splined sprockets, being 58mm chainline rather than 54mm, enable non-Rohloff Chainglider rear ends to be used with a Rohloff hub. If so it may increase the range of sprocket sizes and therefore gear ratios which can be used with a Chainglider.

Fingers crossed.

It would still be preferable for Hebie to make front ends available for a wider range of chainrings.

A very good point and may well be correct. If the Chainglider is placed 3mm further outboard it will be placed clear of any contact with the Rohloff shell. But as mine on the Nomad sits hard against the seat stay it's all a bit academic - a 3mm wider chainline will prevent use of the Chainglider that I now value highly.
Title: Re: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop on January 18, 2016, 11:07:25 AM: Quote
A very good point and may well be correct. If the Chainglider is placed 3mm further outboard it will be placed clear of any contact with the Rohloff shell. But as mine on the Nomad sits hard against the seat stay it's all a bit academic - a 3mm wider chainline will prevent use of the Chainglider that I now value highly.

Best stock up on sprockets now, as this isn't going to be an option the new sprocket replaces the existing in all cases and stocks on the old sprockets are being run down.
Title: Re: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: macspud on January 18, 2016, 01:21:49 PM: Thanks for the heads up, Dave.

I was going to ask about exactly that question, my alarm started bells ringing when I read the words "existing stock". I didn't bring it up as I decided that it was most likely just a problem in translation between German & English on the Rohloff site.

Quote from Rohloff http://www.rohloff.de/en/news/news/news/detail/News/product-news-2016-eurobike-2015/index.html

"The current threaded sprockets (13T, 15T, 16T, 17T) will still be usable instead of the splined carrier system should one with to continue using their existing stock."
Title: Re: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: macspud on January 18, 2016, 04:47:18 PM: From what I can deduce, Rohloff have increased the chainline on their new splined sprocket & carrier system 58mm because there isn't clearance between the hub casing and the chain side plates when using 13 & 14 tooth sprockets at the old 54mm chainline. This is the same reason why the threaded 13 tooth sprockets have a 58mm chainline causing them to be asymetrical and therefore unable to be reversed.

The new chainline may now allow single speed chains to be used?

It would be possible to have a splined carrier with a Hebie Chainglider friendly 54mm chainline for sprockets of 15 tooth and over.
Title: Re: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: macspud on January 20, 2016, 04:32:06 AM: Dan,
There seems to be a problem with this thread, at least for me. It took me a few tries to post my last post, and since it finally completed posting, I just get a blank screen when I click on the thread. It is only visable when looking at "Recent Posts".
Title: Re: Rohloff splined sprockets (and Chainglider fitment)
Post by: Danneaux on January 20, 2016, 04:46:07 AM: Admin test; please do not reply.

Dan.