Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: BobScarle on March 04, 2015, 04:41:40 PM
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I have a Thorn Audax 853, about 12 years old. Last year I did a short tour on it, this year I am planning to go a bit further and consequentially take a bit more kit. Now, I am talking about welsh roads so not dirt tracks or rough ground. I will be fitting a rack and panniers, my tent will be strapped to the rack. I will also be fitting a small bar bag. I have 36 spoke wheels.
I am really not sure about the weight limit for the bike. I did see (or thought I saw) a figure of 15Kg for a rear mounted rack, but I cannot find that again. I reckon that I will be somewhere around that figure, maybe a fraction shy. Can anybody offer any advice, or give me a figure for the maximum weight? If it comes to it, I will buy a touring bike. I weigh around 83Kg.
Bob
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Hello,
I've owned two Audax 853 bikes. I wish I had kept one of them! Really nice to ride.
In my opinion not suitable for loaded touring...
All the best,
John
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Hi Bob!
Short and sweet: ring Thorn in Bridgwater, 01278 441505. They'll have all the info you need!
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Hi Bob!
Brochure here: http://web.archive.org/web/20060911025035/http://www.sjscycles.com/thornwebsite/thornpdf/ThornAudax853BroHiRes.pdf Nothing I can see in it about cargo capacity.
Past discussion of Audax *Mark 3* cargo weight limits here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=9783.0
Though not specific to the lighter 853, it might still be useful to some degree. Me? I'd second a call to Thorn.
All the best,
Dan.
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Bob,
I ride a Nomad but I queried SJS Cycles last year about buying an Audax as a 'fast day ride bike' but was told it had an upper weight limit of 95kgs and as I am over that, it cancelled out any plans of buying one. They did suggest a Club Tour for me though. I have since found a very nice alternative that I think is a suitable option, but I wouldn't dare mention it as it isn't a Thorn.
As you are 83kg, I'd say you have 12kg up your sleeve to load your bike up with?
Here is what SJS Cycles told me in May 2014 when I enquired if I could buy an Audax for myself:
QUOTE
"Unfortunately I do not agree with your proposal of an Audax frame due to the weight limit of the rider being 15 stone (95kg). I understand your point that you will not ride with luggage and you will be on sealed roads but I would still strongly advise against this and I would push the Club Tour on you as it is basically an Audax on steroids.. It can carry more which will help with the rider weight and it can take a larger tyre which can also be an advantage. I do not want to sound harsh but I really want to stress about the weight limit of the bike and we would have to sale that frame without a warranty knowing this."
UNQUOTE
Tony
NZ
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Hello,
I repeat that in my opinion as a past owner of one of these wonderful Audax 853 bikes (NOT MK 3) it is not suitable for loaded riding.
The rear end is not long enough and the bike just does not ride with luggage.
A Club Tour is best step as it can be ridden with narrow or wide tyres and rides well and is comfortable.
Ask Thorn by all means, but the Audax 853 is in no way suited to luggage carrying.
Sorry.
Regards,
John
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Thank you for your responses, although they are not really what I wanted to hear. I will speak to Thorn and get their opinion but it's not looking hopeful. I did tour on it last year but with less luggage and although it seemed to cope it was not "happy". I'll post the response from Thorn later.
I do have a problem if the answer is no. I need a bike for touring in the summer. Ideally I would like a flat bar, hybrid style bike, perhaps a Sherpa would fit the bill. Or perhaps I should try setting up the hybrid in the garage that hasn't been used for years.
Bob
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I have a Thorn Audax 853, about 12 years old. Last year I did a short tour on it, this year I am planning to go a bit further and consequentially take a bit more kit. Now, I am talking about welsh roads so not dirt tracks or rough ground. I will be fitting a rack and panniers, my tent will be strapped to the rack. I will also be fitting a small bar bag. I have 36 spoke wheels.
I am really not sure about the weight limit for the bike. I did see (or thought I saw) a figure of 15Kg for a rear mounted rack, but I cannot find that again. I reckon that I will be somewhere around that figure, maybe a fraction shy. Can anybody offer any advice, or give me a figure for the maximum weight? If it comes to it, I will buy a touring bike. I weigh around 83Kg.
Bob
See Thorn mega brochure page 12 for Thorn bike comparison matrix showing the suitability of their bikes for various tasks.
They show sugested maximum weights for touring gear for the latest versions. How much has the Audax changed since you bought yours?
Re comment about short chain stays, I have just acquired a Mercury and had to adjust the sliding Ortlieb pannier hooks quite well aft to avoid heel strike.
Cheers
Mike
http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/thorn_mega_brochure.pdf
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I have just spoken to Steve at SJS and his advice really confirms what has been said. The limit would be around 12 - 15Kg. I am looking to carry about 15Kg so I am left with a problem. The old hybrid will come out and I will see if it can be pressed into action, but it is certainly possible that I will be buying a Sherpa. Oh well.........
Bob
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I may get banned from the forum for saying this...
but at 19 stone and six foot five, I bought a Surly Long Haul Trucker because it has a 25 stone weight limit. It may not be as quick a bike as you want, but it rides really nicely and does everything I want it to.
Jim
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Hello,
People ride around the World on Mono cycles, 'Penny Farthings' Moultons and Bromptons. But none of these make for a great ride!
Regards,
John
If you have a size 550 S Audax 853 I will be happy to buy it from you for nostalgia!
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John. Thank you for the offer, but I enjoy my 853 rather too much to think about selling it.
Can't say that I am not disappointed. I was hoping that the bike would be up to the job, but then it's not what it is meant for. Having looked at the hybrid you can see that it is low quality and not really suitable. I could upgrade the components and hope that the frame would be ok, but I don't think it is worth while. So now I am looking at a Sherpa and wondering where I can get £1300 from.
Bob
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Stick a trailer on the 853 maybe?
Extrawheel trailer or something?
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A trailers a good idea
i'd get/borrow/rent a BOB yak, unless your going to be using the train
used mine quiet a bit when i was riding a klein, couldn't put racks on it, BOB did the job ;D (worth carrying a spare qr though)
bit pricey to hire but you can here http://www.cycletrailercentre.co.uk/Bob-Yak-for-hire.html
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now I am looking at a Sherpa...
Bob, there's a review of an Audax Mk III used for commuting & light touring, here: https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/reviews/board/message/?o=Sh&thread_id=610130&page=1&nested=0&v=H At the end of the review, there's a link to a journal describing a lightly-loaded tour, which seems to have been just splendid.
This is by Graham Smith of Australia, who posts here as well from time to time.
...and wondering where I can get £1300 from.
Only downside, I guess, is that the Mk 3 is about the same price as a Sherpa. Is a used bike a possibility, perhaps with the 853 in p/ex? But you may not want to part with your bike, and I can understand that. Good luck in any case.
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I may get banned from the forum for saying this...
but at 19 stone and six foot five, I bought a Surly Long Haul Trucker because it has a 25 stone weight limit. It may not be as quick a bike as you want, but it rides really nicely and does everything I want it to.
Jim
My 58cm Surly LHT frame is only 200g heavier than my 56cm CT 4 frame. The Surly is as quick as the rider, I find it as quick as the CT 4 frame. Most of the 'quickness' of a bike is in the components, not the frame. The components that come on a new LHT/Disc Trucker are much better than those spec'd on the CT. The Surly goes everywhere, including loaded rides off-road. My LHT was derided by a roadie group, until I out sprinted their carbon-whatnots up a climb.
When I was buying the CT, and considering the Audax 3, I was told that the Audax shouldn't be ridden on anything worse than a smooth canal tow path (with no luggage). This kind of went against everything I thought I knew about steel bikes; in that they were pretty tough. But then, over the past year, as I've ridden the CT and compared it against my own experiences with the Surly, I've come to the conclusion that 'versatility' is viewed by Thorn and Thorn enthusiasts as a negative characteristic.
I love the fact that I cycled up Ventoux on TdF day, full loaded, and I'm cycling past weight-weenies in full Rapha clothing. The value of my LHT is in it's versatility, a week prior I was crossing from Spain into France on an off-road trail. I think this is the cultural fork in the road, where you take a left to Surly-ville, or right onto the road that values specialisation.
Certainly, if you promote/foster the idea of specialisation you sell more bikes. Owners of multiple bikes feel good, at having the right tool for the job (I guess). This is my bike for smooth roads, if I want to ride a canal path I take this one, off-road is this one, cloudy days I take this other one. The crazyness of 'gravel bikes' highlights this perfectly; it's a CX bike with new stickers, and a CX bike is a touring bike with new stickers.
A sherpa seems complete overkill/over-specialisation, just to be able to carry 15kg. 15kg! Get yourself a cheap mountian bike, or a second hand cheap mountain bike, and go and have fun. Use the £1000 you just saved to go on an adventure. I took a £200 Edinburgh Bicycle Cuillin mountain bike with 40kg of luggage on my first tour. Or just take your 853, I find it inconceivable that a steel bike would wilt with an extra 15kg on smooth roads.
I've realised that some people won't ever see the value of a LHT, because they've gone past that cultural fork in the road and are unwilling to backup a bit and question themselves. And when people compare Surly's to Ordinarys, Bromptons, etc, it simply betrays something about their cultural stubornness. Those sorts of people are not attacking Surlys or Bromptons, they're declaring their own loyalty to specialisation.
If you do a search for Joff Sommerfield, you'll find a pretty adventurous guy currently in Central America on his Ordinary, which he built himself. On this trip he's ridden down from Canana, and I think that sort of distance makes his bike 'versatile' and therefore of great value.
cheers,
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My 58cm Surly LHT frame is only 200g heavier than my 56cm CT 4 frame. The Surly is as quick as the rider, I find it as quick as the CT 4 frame. Most of the 'quickness' of a bike is in the components, not the frame. The components that come on a new LHT/Disc Trucker are much better than those spec'd on the CT. The Surly goes everywhere, including loaded rides off-road. My LHT was derided by a roadie group, until I out sprinted their carbon-whatnots up a climb.
When I was buying the CT, and considering the Audax 3, I was told that the Audax shouldn't be ridden on anything worse than a smooth canal tow path (with no luggage). This kind of went against everything I thought I knew about steel bikes; in that they were pretty tough. But then, over the past year, as I've ridden the CT and compared it against my own experiences with the Surly, I've come to the conclusion that 'versatility' is viewed by Thorn and Thorn enthusiasts as a negative characteristic.
I love the fact that I cycled up Ventoux on TdF day, full loaded, and I'm cycling past weight-weenies in full Rapha clothing. The value of my LHT is in it's versatility, a week prior I was crossing from Spain into France on an off-road trail. I think this is the cultural fork in the road, where you take a left to Surly-ville, or right onto the road that values specialisation.
Certainly, if you promote/foster the idea of specialisation you sell more bikes. Owners of multiple bikes feel good, at having the right tool for the job (I guess). This is my bike for smooth roads, if I want to ride a canal path I take this one, off-road is this one, cloudy days I take this other one. The crazyness of 'gravel bikes' highlights this perfectly; it's a CX bike with new stickers, and a CX bike is a touring bike with new stickers.
A sherpa seems complete overkill/over-specialisation, just to be able to carry 15kg. 15kg! Get yourself a cheap mountian bike, or a second hand cheap mountain bike, and go and have fun. Use the £1000 you just saved to go on an adventure. I took a £200 Edinburgh Bicycle Cuillin mountain bike with 40kg of luggage on my first tour. Or just take your 853, I find it inconceivable that a steel bike would wilt with an extra 15kg on smooth roads.
I've realised that some people won't ever see the value of a LHT, because they've gone past that cultural fork in the road and are unwilling to backup a bit and question themselves. And when people compare Surly's to Ordinarys, Bromptons, etc, it simply betrays something about their cultural stubornness. Those sorts of people are not attacking Surlys or Bromptons, they're declaring their own loyalty to specialisation.
If you do a search for Joff Sommerfield, you'll find a pretty adventurous guy currently in Central America on his Ordinary, which he built himself. On this trip he's ridden down from Canana, and I think that sort of distance makes his bike 'versatile' and therefore of great value.
cheers,
Hello,
I can read, I can read into the above!
Let the opening poster spend his money on what he wants! Preferably a Thorn. From what I recall 'you' were not keen on your Club Tour?
Regards,
John
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Get yourself a cheap mountian bike, or a second hand cheap mountain bike, and go and have fun. Use the £1000 you just saved to go on an adventure. I took a £200 Edinburgh Bicycle Cuillin mountain bike with 40kg of luggage on my first tour. Or just take your 853, I find it inconceivable that a steel bike would wilt with an extra 15kg on smooth roads.
I'd agree with the cheap mountain bike for a loaded tour.
My original plan for my 2011 Spain trip (just under a month) was to get a Thorn Nomad tourer with a Rohloff. But I left it too late to order and fettle a new bike.
I had the choice of 5 bikes for my tour :
- a 531 frame lightweight tourer from 1977, originally 27" but converted to 700C.
- a fairly heavy steel frame mountain bike from 1990
- a very old steel frame 650B wheel bike with 5-speed hub gears.
- a fairly new Moulton TSR
- a Brompton, fettled with reasonably wide range gearing.
I had enough time to ride all the way and back without using other transport, so discounted the use of the Moulton and the Brompton. I have had good tours with these two bikes, especially the latter, which has often enabled me to get a few days riding on family visits or work-related trips, combined with use of buses and trains.
The 650B bike didn't have enough gear range for the Pyrenees and the Picos, and, though it will take the load, my lightweight tourer doesn't behave very well with a month's worth of luggage, so I chose the mountain bike.
I spent a bit of money converting it to suit my idea of what I wanted - dynohub, steel 24T inner chainring, new wide capacity Deore rear derailleur, drop bars, Marathon Supreme 2.0 tyres - but the new parts were only a fraction of the price of a dedicated touring bike.
I had great fun on my tour, the only real downside was the cleaning required for the derailleur transmission, which meant that I avoided some opportunities to ride on tracks and paths so as to reduce the amount of muck getting on chain/sprockets.
I have since bought a dedicated touring bike, so will be ready for my next big tour. Andy Blance talked me out of a Nomad, so I got one of the last Raven Tours (slightly heavier frame than the current Raven), which should be sufficiently robust for the kind of touring I am likely to do.
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I spent a bit of money converting it to suit my idea of what I wanted - dynohub, steel 24T inner chainring, new wide capacity Deore rear derailleur, drop bars, Marathon Supreme 2.0 tyres - but the new parts were only a fraction of the price of a dedicated touring bike.
That's the best way to go I think, self-build.
Just to be clear, I'm not suggestion specialisation (or Thorn) is a bad thing. Simply pointing out to that the suggestion of a Surly will likely fall on deaf ears to a Thorn rider, as it often does to many people who feel a tailored bike is the best tool for the job. Not because there's anything wrong with a Surly Trucker, but for the reason that what a person feels and observes as 'value' is different.
Also I do think that the majority of people are quite capable of recognising objective value in the bikes/things that they may not personally want, that different things work for different people.
cheers,
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Simply pointing out to that the suggestion of a Surly will likely fall on deaf ears to a Thorn rider, as it often does to many people who feel a tailored bike is the best tool for the job.
Drifting a wee bit away from the question of the Audax 853's carrying capacity, I know, but I have a rather different take on the Surly/Thorn/specialisation question: I was looking for a versatile bike, with a capacity for loaded touring. From some questioning around the Ottawa area where I live (not so helpful, really) and more from combing through crazyguy and this forum, I narrowed the search quite quickly to a Surly LHT and a Thorn Raven, precisely because of the versatility--hence, for me, value--which both offer. I especially liked the price of the LHT relative to the Raven--2 for 1, really. The biggest negative for me with the Surly was the fact that I'd had ten years of derailleur hassles of one kind or another, and (more positively) the Rohloff offered a better gear-inch range for my purposes, and one more easily adjusted. On balance, the Rohloff was the deciding factor, linked as well to the fact that the Raven was purpose-built for the Rohloff. No regrets at all so far, although I understand the appeal of the LHT.
As for the specialisation question, I dunno about that. I now have three bikes--a tiny number for some, I know: two variants on a touring bike, both versatile, but the Thorn much more so because it's better suited to loaded touring than my derailleur-equipped ti-and-carbon Eclipse; and a city bike, our son's converted MTB which is closing on 20 years now.
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Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I really don't have a problem with the LHT and will certainly consider it (no deaf ears here), I am also looking at the Kona Sutra. I enjoy riding my audax 853 bike so it is only natural that I should look at the Thorn range.
I also have 3 bikes, the aforementioned Audax 853, a carbon fibre Bianchi and an old hybrid / mountain bike. The audax, as discussed, would not be suitable. The Bianchi is of course the wrong type of bike and would not work. So that leaves me with the hybrid. I have read with interest the comments about a cheap mountain bikes and I have to say I am looking at the hybrid in a different light. I think there may be some mileage in getting it out and taking a long hard look at it. I have always thought that as it was fairly low quality it would not be any good. Maybe it's time to buy some road tyres and give it a serious workout.
Bob
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Up until I purchased a club tour late last year, I've used a hybrid with a rear rack and it worked fine for the UK / France.
Carlos
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Worth looking at the hybrid/MTB option, Bob, for sure. In 2007, I rode from Ottawa to Halifax via the hills of New England with a South African friend. It was my 60th birthday, and he was 72 at the time. I had my derailleur Eclipse, towing a trailer, and he rode my Miele hybrid with rear rack & panniers, and a handlebar bag. We camped most of the time. The Miele had an ordinary 8-spd Shimano, and he had no problems at all--not with the bike, not with the ride. I had some derailleur problems, of course...
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just read this thread all i can say is if my new audax 853 breaks with a light load on it i'll sell the wife buy a donkey and move to spain live on the beach. :'( :'( :'(
i look at other bike forums a lot and theres loads of lads touring on carbon bike's without a problem ,i reckon thorn are just covering there ass saying 15kg is the absolute max weight ,shoot over to utube and look for guys touring on lesser bikes with very heavy loads.
i wonder did the op actually buy a sherpa or did he chance the 853 guess we will never know.
anto who's a bit late answering this thread but better late than never.
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just read this thread all i can say is if my new audax 853 breaks with a light load on it i'll sell the wife buy a donkey and move to spain live on the beach. :'( :'( :'(
i look at other bike forums a lot and theres loads of lads touring on carbon bike's without a problem ,i reckon thorn are just covering there ass saying 15kg is the absolute max weight ,shoot over to utube and look for guys touring on lesser bikes with very heavy loads.
i wonder did the op actually buy a sherpa or did he chance the 853 guess we will never know.
anto who's a bit late answering this thread but better late than never.
Hello Jags,
YOU do not have an Audax 853! You have an Audax Mk3.
The Audax 853 has not been manufactured for a long time, possibly 15 years or more.
Enjoy what you now have....
John
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strange that it says 853 on the seat tube. :o
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It like says 858
John
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possible will have to check but its in the box packed away until im ready to build .not bother either way to be honest it looks class that will do me fine.
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Hello,
It is not a 'possible' at all, it is a fact! 858 is Thorn own brand tube. 853 is Reynolds tube.
Unpack it and drool....... :)
John
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As there are a few late posts on this, I thought I might give a very quick update.
In the end I listened to Thorn and decided that it was not worth taking the risk of bending or breaking the 853. I sold the hybrid as I didn't fancy trying to make something of that and eventually bought a Genesis Tour de Fer. I did a couple of really good tours on it, very happy. I am sure there are plenty of other bikes that would have done to job but this one came up at the right price so I gave it a go. I hope to tour a lot more on it.
My 853 is still going although there are some ripples on the paintwork on the top tube. I do not know what has caused them, it doesn't look like rust, although it could be.