Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: Audax hopeful on November 21, 2014, 09:07:07 PM
-
I'm toying in my head with changing the fork/stem/handlebar arrangement on my Audax Mk3. At present I have 70mm of spacers (inc a Thorn accessory bar) below my -8 degree 110mm stem.
I no longer need the accessory bar, and I've never really liked the pile of spacers - but until recently I wasn't too keen on inclined stems either. However I'm changing my mind (FarOeuf's bike was one of the bad influences!) and considering flipping the stem to allow reducing the stack of spacers. I feel a slight height increase might be beneficial, but the reach is about right. I don't want to lose flexibility, but I can always use a 17 degree stem in the future to obtain even more height. Question is - how many spacers to keep?
Of course I'll try out options before cutting the stem down, but was wondering on the thoughts of the collective "wisdom" in the forum?!
Nich
-
Hi Nich!
If you're dismayed by the number of spacers, you can achieve a much more integrated look by substituting some of Thorn's "tall" spacers (up to 48mm), shown in links here: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/find.asp?site=&name=thorn&page=1&geoc=US#filterkey=cat&cat=590&page=1
As for steerer length, I decided to keep mine full length (uncut) when I owned Sherpa and did the same for my Nomad, using the extra space to mount bottles alongside the steerer, among other things. I figure it is a hedge against Future Days when I might wish to place my handlebars higher than they are now.
I suspect you've pretty well settled on your position now and forever, but your musings on stem length leave open the possibility you may still wish to make some adjustments. With that in mind, it might be best to leave the steerer uncut till you finish playing with different spacer/stem combinations.
As for strength, I don't think you'll find any issues with Thorn's robust steerer regardless whether it is full length or cut-down.
All the best,
Dan.
-
are you asking in terms of aesthetics or strength?
I've always (going back 15 years of A-headsets) kept the stem-clamp covering not less than 3/4 of the head tube. that's by no means scientific, but I've never had a failure (steel forks always, on mountain-bikes and very rough terrain).
Once you've measured fork axle to stem, as a baseline, I think it's great to play about with options. It's also one of the great things about the bikes we have (ie steel), that they're not shrink-wrapped and you can play around with different configurations more easily.
(btw, I had two tall spacers on my CT which were too tall for my new (oversized to fit the new bars) 'flipped' stem. So if you want a large (Thorn) spacer I have a 50mm gathering dust).
cheers,
Doug
-
I can see my ambiguous post has caused some confusion. No, I have no concerns about the strength of the steerer stem at different lengths (it's a Thorn steel one after all!); similarly it's not the number of spacers, but the combined height and resultant aesthetics!
[Aside - if I do settle on a final spacer height of 50mm I will be in touch Doug, a single spacer might look really neat!]
My steerer is already cut down from its full length, but I'm considering taking an extra 15 to 30mm off it's present length. I feel it's important to remember this is an Audax frame, not a Raven or Nomad which I may well feel needed a different aesthetic approach! Still interested in feedback...
Nich
-
I personally like a 17 degree stem in the horizontal position, as on my Sherpa. Also, if I sell it having a longer steerer tube may be a plus. In the photo I have two 10mm spacers above the stem, I am too lazy to cut it down.
I did cut the steerer tube on my Nomad, but I might want to pack the fork for transport, thus wanted it shorter so there was a reason to cut it. I was careful not to cut too much, I actually cut it three times, it is better to leave it a little long and cut it again later than to cut it too much the first time.
-
I much prefer the look of a slopping stem over a large stack of spacers and a flat to the floor stem, especially on an audax where a slopping stem can be made to match the slope of the top tube.
-
Hello,
Having looked at all variations I see some are bothered and some are not!n
In my own opinion too many Thorn bikes are out on the road, built to fit the purchaser but with really over long steerers! Why?
My bikes if you take a look, have a decent (to look at) steerer length. I see no reason, other than having incorrect frame size, why anyone should have what looks a too long steerer.
Thorn bikes when discussed on some of those 'Roadie' Forums are laughed at because of just this!
Regards,
John
-
i can see the reason for not cutting the steerer tube, for add on's bar extensions and whatever.
but for me it's about 2inches max if i was younger then i would have one .
reason being i picked the right size frame ;)
i reckon the same goes with seat tube.i often see guys with the seat tube fully extended ;D ;D give me a break they are obviously on the wrong size frame .
bit of a macho thing going on or should i say wally.
jags.
-
i can see the reason for not cutting the steerer tube, for add on's bar extensions and whatever.
but for me it's about 2inches max if i was younger then i would have one .
reason being i picked the right size frame ;)
i reckon the same goes with seat tube.i often see guys with the seat tube fully extended ;D ;D give me a break they are obviously on the wrong size frame .
bit of a macho thing going on or should i say wally.
jags.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
i can see the reason for not cutting the steerer tube, for add on's bar extensions and whatever.
but for me it's about 2inches max if i was younger then i would have one .
reason being i picked the right size frame ;)
i reckon the same goes with seat tube.i often see guys with the seat tube fully extended ;D ;D give me a break they are obviously on the wrong size frame .
bit of a macho thing going on or should i say wally.
jags.
Or maybe because a suitably sized frame is not available other than though the custom built route.
My Audax Mk3 and Sherpa are both the largest sizes Thorn produce, and I have more seatpost showing than I would like from an aesthetic viewpoint. I don't have a big stack of spacers at the front because I prefer a steep sloping stem to extra spacers, and have my bars a couple of inches below saddle level.
I could have bought a different brand maybe (Surly etc) but other aspects of the geometries of othe brands didn't suit me.
My old Cannondale 700c tourer (which cracked) was a 25" frame and had a level top tube, there was about 4" of seat tube showing on it.
-
thorn had better go back to the drawing board so.why dont the make the seat tube part of the frame with these sloping top tubes.
a fully extended seat post does look out of place on a sloping top tube IMHO.
i can't figure this one out surly it has been proven that the seat tube height give you the proper size frame top tube for reach am i missing something here. ::)
jags.
-
Or maybe because a suitably sized frame is not available other than though the custom built route.
My Audax Mk3 and Sherpa are both the largest sizes Thorn produce, and I have more seatpost showing than I would like from an aesthetic viewpoint. I don't have a big stack of spacers at the front because I prefer a steep sloping stem to extra spacers, and have my bars a couple of inches below saddle level.
I could have bought a different brand maybe (Surly etc) but other aspects of the geometries of othe brands didn't suit me.
My old Cannondale 700c tourer (which cracked) was a 25" frame and had a level top tube, there was about 4" of seat tube showing on it.
Hello
I think you may be an exception due to being 7 feet tall?
Tall headtubes are because the frame is not large enough or because a person has particularly short legs/long body?
John
-
Hello
I think you may be an exception due to being 7 feet tall?
Tall headtubes are because the frame is not large enough or because a person has particularly short legs/long body?
John
Nope, I am only 6'2", not exceptionally tall these days.
-
i reckon the same goes with seat tube.i often see guys with the seat tube fully extended ;D ;D give me a break they are obviously on the wrong size frame .
bit of a macho thing going on or should i say wally.
Wally.
More show than engineering.
-
Nope, I am only 6'2", not exceptionally tall these days.
I am surprised that you feel too much seatpost is showing. If you have a biggest size then I should have thought the opposite!
Anyhow it is steerer spacers in question.....
John
-
I am surprised that you feel too much seatpost is showing. If you have a biggest size then I should have thought the opposite!
Anyhow it is steerer spacers in question.....
John
Well if I didn't have a steep high rise stem I would have a lot more steerer spacers.
You can see my Mk3 here http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=9693.msg67961#msg67961
-
Thought I'd attach a couple of photos to show the starting point of my present tinkering!
-
And the second one:
-
And the second one:
Hello,
I am not a lover of those accessory bars but, at least the steerer is a decent length!
Regards,n
John
-
Well if I didn't have a steep high rise stem I would have a lot more steerer spacers.
You can see my Mk3 here http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=9693.msg67961#msg67961
Hello,
I can see that you need the bike set up this way, but if I were you I am afraid I would change to a bike that fitted 'correctly'!
Sorry but no offense intended. It just appalls me that riders (buyers) need such drastic measures to get a reasonable comfortable fit. After all your height whilst tall, is not unusual. The bikes 'designer' Andy Blance however is not tall??!!
I'm happy that I'm shorter!
Best regards,
John
-
Long seat posts gives smoother rides. I have no problem with large amounts of seat post showing, its the semi compact geometry of most bike that cause this nowadays and that's a straight design decision to build in some vibration cancelling effects granted by a long seat post.
As for stacks of spacers, its more to do with a limited number of frame sizes over anything else. I have no real problem with seeing them.
-
Long seat posts gives smoother rides. I have no problem with large amounts of seat post showing, its the semi compact geometry of most bike that cause this nowadays and that's a straight design decision to build in some vibration cancelling effects granted by a long seat post.
As for stacks of spacers, its more to do with a limited number of frame sizes over anything else. I have no real problem with seeing them.
Hewllo,
Seatpost length no worry at all, but I have seen, indeed on this Forum, bikes with steerers uncut and bars so high it seems ridiculous.
It also looks silly?
Regards,
John
-
Yeh it does look a bit odd definitely! I've cut mine down to a 50mm spacer + stem and I'm happy with the way that looks.
-
Hello,
I can see that you need the bike set up this way, but if I were you I am afraid I would change to a bike that fitted 'correctly'!
Sorry but no offense intended. It just appalls me that riders (buyers) need such drastic measures to get a reasonable comfortable fit. After all your height whilst tall, is not unusual. The bikes 'designer' Andy Blance however is not tall??!!
I'm happy that I'm shorter!
Best regards,
John
Changing to a bike "that fitted correctly" is easier said than done though.
There were no other brands that had any better overall dimensions, I could have got a frame with a slightly longer seat tube and a taller head tube but that would also have given me a longer top tube and for me, the Mk3 already has a slightly longer top tube than I would prefer.
So other than getting a frame custom built, I had to settle for a compromise.
One day I may indeed go for custom built, but its hard to justify the expense.
-
Thought I'd attach a couple of photos to show the starting point of my present tinkering!
Not sure if it's obvious, or not, but for those worried about wrecking future bar configuration options (ie, raising it up again), you can always just buy a new set of un-cut forks. If you're unhappily riding around with a huge stack of spacers and a 'just incase' thought, you don't need to. Yes, they are not particularly cheap, but they do give you some security that you're not about to permanently wreck your bike. The 'worst case scenario' isn't that bad.
Good luck.
cheers,
Doug
-
I wonder did someone start a trend accidently by leaving the tube uncut thinking ah yes i can attach so many gadgets to this if i leave 12inches sticking out.
ok i can see that the folks that adventure tour would find this great but for the like of myself that would only do a few days here and there ,sure a fella might as well get a bike that fits.
mind you having said that my own audax is to big for me ,not by much tho i reckon a 50cm frame would suit me better.
yeah unless you go the custom route your kinda stuck with what comes off the shelf not always a good choice,but personally what i have will do me fine i dont ride every day and i will never do any big tours so i reckon i can mould my little body into doing 100 plus miles a week no problem if i need to.
jags.
-
Not sure if it's obvious, or not, but for those worried about wrecking future bar configuration options (ie, raising it up again), you can always just buy a new set of un-cut forks. If you're unhappily riding around with a huge stack of spacers and a 'just incase' thought, you don't need to. Yes, they are not particularly cheap, but they do give you some security that you're not about to permanently wreck your bike. The 'worst case scenario' isn't that bad.
Good luck.
cheers,
Doug
It is possible to buy an 'invisible' extension for fork steerers if cut too short.
John :o
-
Sorry to semi-hijack this thread but my steerer is too high on my new Raven (my fault, I specified an overly relaxed fit). Is it a reasonably straight forward job with a hacksaw to shorten it?
Many thanks
Mart
-
Sorry to semi-hijack this thread but my steerer is too high on my new Raven (my fault, I specified an overly relaxed fit). Is it a reasonably straight forward job with a hacksaw to shorten it?
Many thanks
Mart
Yes, just be certain about where you want to cut it.
Some folk recommend using a cutting guide to get a perfectly straight cut but its not essential.
-
Threadless headsets still seem new to me and a little crazy!
The goal when cutting the steerer is to cut it maybe 3 mm or so shorter than the top of the top spacer or the top of the stem, whatever is the top of the stack, right? That way the top cap bears down on the stack which will put a bit of compression on the bearings. I have seen some really skinny spacers - I expect that it wouldn't really work to have one of those at the top of the stack. Probably most folks have the stem at the top. I had my steerer cut a tad long, to allow for future rearrangement possibilities. So I have one 1 cm spacer above the stem.
-
Thanks. I'm going to 'practice' by cutting it halfway down to where I think I want to end up and see how I get on. That way if I do muck it up I haven't wrecked the forks.
Mart.
-
I have never cut a steerer tube, but I understand you do have to get a pretty accurate right angle. Fine if you are handy with hacksaws, files etc to clean up the cut afterwards, but accurate cutting by hand / eye takes a fair bit of practice . . . . .
Lewis (. . . he who has learnt the hard way . . . .)
-
Thanks. I'm going to 'practice' by cutting it halfway down to where I think I want to end up and see how I get on. That way if I do muck it up I haven't wrecked the forks.
Mart.
Here's an explanation : http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/fork-column-length-and-sizing (http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/fork-column-length-and-sizing)
I think a bike shop will charge £10-15 to do it for you.
cheers,
-
I have never cut a steerer tube, but I understand you do have to get a pretty accurate right angle. Fine if you are handy with hacksaws, files etc to clean up the cut afterwards, but accurate cutting by hand / eye takes a fair bit of practice . . . . .
Lewis (. . . he who has learnt the hard way . . . .)
Not really, because you have to have the top of the steerer about 2-3mm below the upper edge of your stem (or top spacer), in order for the top cap to apply compression to preload the headset bearing. Therefore it doesn't matter if your cut is at an imperfect angle.
I've done about four or five of these and never used a guide, it always ends up at a slight slant but no problem.
-
I wrap a piece of tape all the way around the steerer tube first. If I did not get the tape on perpendicular, I know that right away, remove tape and start over. Then as I cut I just keep making sure I see if I am cutting along the edge of the tape. And of course before I start cutting, I mark which side of the tape to cut so that I do not accidentally make it an inch shorter than I wanted it. A few mm off and it is not a crisis.
If I already have the star nut in the steerer tube, push that down to where I want it first before I get out the hacksaw.
If you want to be obsessive about a perfect right angle, use a file later. But it never hurts to put a 5mm or 10mm spacer above your stem.
-
Well, I've finally found time to mess around with the stem/bars/spacers on my Audax. By flipping the stem and reducing the spacers by 20mm the result is bars 11mm higher, reach reduced by 3mm. If riding leaves me happy with the result I will shorten the fork steerer. Aesthetically I'm pleased at present.
Still can't seem to add more than one photo per post, so here goes:
-
2nd photo:
-
And third:
-
Good advice with the tape, Mick, helps make a cleaner and more accurate cut. I must remember that.
Lewis
-
Aesthetically I'm pleased at present.
Looks pretty good to me, Audax! Also worth remembering "No condition permanent," as they say in Nigeria.
-
I think the max memory size of all photos combined in one post is 512k. Thus, I also can only get one photo per post.
-
Nice looking result, Nice!
Mickeg is correct...total size of photos per post is 512K. They can be reduced by various means so more than one can be attached. If you use html tags to link to photos stored offsite, then there is no filesize limit to observe. For more on that and posting photos, see my little tutorial posted here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4313.0
Best,
Dan.