Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Muppets Threads! (And Anything Else) => Topic started by: jags on November 19, 2014, 11:34:07 AM
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What do guys reckon on this set up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrLOk8Ko0CY
anto.
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What do guys reckon on this set up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrLOk8Ko0CY
anto.
All too much and too heavy! But cheaper than my stuff!
John
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i kinda thought that 4 panniers for one week :o
anto
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Anto there are so many variables to carrying kit, it will all depend on the level of comfort you want and the bulk and weight of the items you own or can loan. After a couple of goes at packing my panniers I see on real difference in the kit that will go with me on an extended cycle trip, a week or above, than the kit I have packed when sea kayaking and backpacking, other than cycle spars and parts. What I have found over many many years of sleeping out and in all weathers, heavy or light weight is having a good routine. Where and when you tour will also have an impact on the kit you carry too.
I will garentee that on my first shake out ride and camp there will be something I will change mid tour and for the next trip. There is only one way to solve your question anto is "pack your bags with your kit"
Andy
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Andy what gets me every time is what cloths to take ::)
and they take up most of the panniers.
i think i have my Tent sorted thanks to John it's much smaller than the one i have at present but yeah its much lighter and packs smaller as well ..
This past few months Andy i've be looking at Bushcraft god i love this stuff mind you i'm only looking the wife thinks i've lost the plot.Anto sleeping in the woods ;D ;D
no faith in me that woman. ::)
but where was i oh yeah there kit is not a million miles away from cycle touring or even backpacking ?
so if a fella got his kit sorted he could do the lot ..this is what i have for a weeks touring.
shelter n sleeping.
Tent- saunders fellpacker 1 man (i think)
Exped syn matt,
Down Quilt.
Thermarest compressable pillow (med)
cooking..(god help me)
small gas stove
couple alu pots small,(soup or beans)..
bike .(nearly forgot that)
Thorn Audax 853
Tubus rear rack
Ortlieb Classic Panniers.
Small barbag..
cloths.
2 pair bibs.
2 base layers.
2 cycling jerseys
1 pair leg warmers
1 pair arm warmers
off bike
1 pair trousers
rab coat
socks
underware .
can't think of much more but going as light as i can whenever i do go. ;D
anto.
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Anto, I agree with AndyE; the best way to learn to pack is to do it for oneself and then get out there and test, test, test with successive trips, as the specific ingredients will always vary to some degree. There's also real value to be found camping in the backyard to sort out your sleep system or get used to pitching the tent in a downpour. If you get it wrong, no real penalty; just run for the house and warm bed a few meters away. :D
I've accumulated enough kit over the years -- some of it is 35 years old and still holding up fine -- so I can quickly grab and assemble a setup appropriate to need keeping in mind time away, season, geography, and proximity to resupply. At the extreme, I'm set for months or years on the road solo, regardless of location. At the lighter end of things, I'm fine for lightweight 3-season camping...overnighters that can be extended almost indefinitely if I can regularly resupply with food and water. One of these lighter setups might appeal to you, as I can take it on one of my rando bikes and it has almost no impact on my speed or distance. Here's one example...
Using just two small panniers (Ortlieb SportPacker Plus) and my rear rack, the packing looks like this:
Rear rack top: 1-person tent and rainfly with footprint (Coleman eXponent Dakota 1 or I can substitute my Terra Nova Laser Competition 1), cycling rain gear (helmet cover, shoe covers, jacket and pants, gloves), Joos Orange solar panel/accumulator battery.
Left pannier:
• Self-inflating sleeping mat, full-length; folded lengthwise and rolled, secured with a velcro strap.
• Mini-Trangia cook kit with extra fuel (my preferred combo is an Esbit spirit stove with simmer cap, Mojo pot stand, folding BSR windscreen, Mini-Trangia pot and lifter with non-stick frypan/lid, MSR piezoelectric igniter, Swiss Army Knife, two folded Primus spoons/forks, MSR scraper/brush, small fuel bottle...all stored in pot set bag. Weight: 680g. Can substitute a version made from a beer can and two cups with lid that weighs 450g and fits in my open hand).
• Homemade Reflectix cozy for freezer-bag cooking.
• Spare jersey and shorts.
• Under the cap-top lid: Cycling tights and longsleeve wool jersey with wind panels, carried in a small stuff sack.
• Toilet kit (asthma/thyroid meds, toothbrush/paste/floss, crystal deodorant/antiperspiran, small bottle baby shampoo that also serves as dish soap)
Right pannier:
• Sleeping bag in stuff sack with inflatable pillow or use rain gear stuff sack as pillow.
• Food, carried in a roller sack.
• Spare socks and underwear, head buff, light fleece balaclava in small sack..
• Under the cap-top lid: Midweight fleece pullover carried in small stuff sack.
In my rear jersey pockets:
• Smartphone (which includes my camera, GPS/maps, flashlight, compass, Internet access, and e-books as well as movies and music plus phone functions)
• Mains charger, spare battery, and ear buds for phone.
• Small packets of facial tissues for general cleanup, nose-blowing, and toilet paper.
• Pocket first-aid kit
• If needed, SteriPen water purifier and toilet trowel.
With this setup, I can eat hot food/drink, remain warm and dry riding or sleeping down to freezing/0°C, and don't even need a handlebar bag. I can read e-books, listen to music, or watch movies in my tent. I can navigate if needed (backup compass on my watch), and the lot is light enough to not interfere when I want to make good time/distance. I prefer to carry the two small panniers on my front rack, but they can be carried at the rear instead. No suffering, good fun, and fast/light for little cost. Sleeping pad is my usual Nemo Tuo 20R at 1kg but is comfortable and warm, can substitute a featherweight Thermarest in hot weather), and my lighter, sub-kilo down sleeping bag good to freezing. The whole works does well up to a week or so, but can be easily extended if one wishes. At the colder end, one can wear everything and be warm as toast.
A good, useful touring kit needn't be expensive, bulky, or heavy and it doesn't require suffering!
Best,
Dan.
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Anto,
Layering is the key to the clothing issue. Try and calculate the coldest you'll be, and take enough so you'll be warm if you wear everything including the rain gear.
For "town use", I might add a pair of lightweight nylon-blend trousers (cargo pants) with zip-off legs and a nylon webbing belt. I use my jersey as a shirt, tucked in to the waistband of the pants so it looks a little neater. My longsleeved, zip-front jersey or a wind jacket can go over that and look okay. I *probably* won't be attending the opera while on-tour, and this is good enough to get me into a cafe or for shopping/being a tourist while off the bike.
Best,
Dan.
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Pretty good guide, Dan--thanks!
Three-season camping has just ended here -- the wind chill this morning was -18, and the wet snow from earlier in the week was all crust and ice :-(
Looking at experimenting over the winter with using no rear panniers, only 2-3-4 drybags strapped to the rear rack. The T-42 Arkels are effective but quite heavy. (2.7 kg / 6 lbs) By comparison, three or four drybags and several bungees weigh 500 gms or less, barely a pound. Reports to come in a few months.
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cheers dan i will study that lot ;)
anto
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The T-42 Arkels are effective but quite heavy.
<nods> True enough, John, and same for Ortliebs. I'm always astonished at how much I'm carrying to carry even more!
Still, heavy bags are sturdy bags for long-term use. I've made my own panniers and handlebar bags in the past, sometimes using lightweight materials and the result came in at considerably less weight...until the bags failed in use that would never have phased a heavier set. Leaning the loaded bike against a tree, for example, proved to be a no-no as rough bark punched the odd hole or two right through the fabric, which was selected for linear toughness but did nothing much at all to prevent through-punctures.
Looking forward to your drybag trials!
All the best,
Dan.
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Bush craft, field craft, camp craft, call it what you will all the same to me, just different gear and techniques for any given situation. What matters is been confident in using "your Kit" in rain or shine. What kit works for me may not be OK for you! Don't be fooled in to thinking that anyone has a perfect system or equipment because they don't. What differs is experience and an ability to make and make do at times and adapt to a situation with the kit you have.
A close sea kayaking friend of mine is 6'5" he paddles what can only be described as the Panamax of sea Kayaks. His kit is completely different to that of mine, yet we both have light weight and low volume tents and sleeping mats, sleeping bags, Packing wise his kit just that bit bigger than mine. He has a system and routine for packing his kit, I have a system and routine for packing mine.
Anto your system and routine will come with practice.
Andy
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Pretty good guide, Dan--thanks!
Three-season camping has just ended here -- the wind chill this morning was -18, and the wet snow from earlier in the week was all crust and ice :-(
Looking at experimenting over the winter with using no rear panniers, only 2-3-4 drybags strapped to the rear rack. The T-42 Arkels are effective but quite heavy. (2.7 kg / 6 lbs) By comparison, three or four drybags and several bungees weigh 500 gms or less, barely a pound. Reports to come in a few months.
I used an Alpkit drybag for about 1500km, bungeed on, and it was fine. I've had problems with bungees cutting through bags before (notably tent compression sacks, and then the tent), but the dry bag was fine. In winter conditions I'm not sure of any advantage in lightweight bags. Bungees are a pain in warm weather, in cold weather (cold hands) they a real pain. Weight of panniers is more headline grabbing (1.5kg !!!!!) than practically a probem (less than 1% difference in all-up weight?).
But experimentation is the only way to know what works for you.
cheers,
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Doug,
I've had very good luck over the years using Arno straps:
http://arnostrap.com/default.asp?content=productdetails&id=12
http://www.rei.com/product/833518/coghlans-arno-straps
The Arno straps are easy to tie up or undo with one hand even in frigid conditions and hold fast and tight without wobble or harming delicate loads beneath so long as minimal care is used in buckle placement. The zinc-plated steel buckles have outlasted plastic pinch-fasteners for me under continued UV exposure and extreme cold. I still use plastic Fastex buckles and nylon webbing for my pannier cinch straps, but it's Arno all the way for my rack-top loads.
I gave up on bungees after I found they became stretched-out and allowed the load to wobble in my use. The capper came when I talked to a fellow who had lost an eye to one. The hook slipped under tension and...! Shortly after, I met another fellow who had lost his front teeth in a similar accident. Grisly.
Best,
Dan.
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Thanks again lads for all the advice.
Andy i.ll get there in the end fear not.
anto.
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Something that many newcomers to the magic of cycle-touring often ask with wonder is 'How do you carry all your food and camping gear on a long summer tour?' It is something that comes from long experience, trying different types of camping gear and accessories, loading the bike in various combinations of rear panniers, handlebar bag, front panniers and even trying a trailer.
For a tour of anything over 3 days you need to start looking at carrying a wider range of tools and spares for the bike, and camping items that will give you a bit of creature comforts. Subject to your hill climbing ability and low gears, carrying a bit of extra weight is manageable on a bike - after all the weight is not on your back like on a bushwalk. The bike carries the weight on sturdy racks and panniers; you just have to push it along. As a result I have never been a fan of the school of ultra-light weight gear. I like things that are reliable and will last me for more than one tour. Accordingly some of the items in this list of gear to tour with may seem luxurious or even excessive, however I tour with them regularly on longer trips and still seem to get up the mountains OK. It is to some extent what you are used to.
Note: this list is the items suitable for extended remote area touring with lots of bush camping. An abbreviated list could be used when touring in more developed areas with mainly caravan park camps.
Tools
6" shifting spanner
pliers
2 tyre levers
Topeak Alien multi-tool
8mm spanner
15mm pedal spanner
chain tool
6, 8, 10mm allen keys
spoke key
Rohloff sprocket remover
screw driver (dual head)
cleaning brush
puncture repair kit
tyre boot
Spares
gear & brake cables
spokes (inside handlebar)
brake pads
adhesive tape
zip ties (asstd. sizes)
baling wire
hose clamp
steel rod (5 x 110mm)
assorted nuts & bolts
2 tubes
grease tub
chain lube
Camping & Cooking
tent
groundsheet
extra rain fly
Exped Synmat
LED lantern
Helinox camping chair
stove & fuel
cooking set (w/pot grip, matches, lighter, dishwashing liquid)
mess kit
serrated knife
cutting board
wooden spoon
water purification tablets
Ortlieb collapsible basin
6L water bag
sleeping bag
silk sleeping sheet
Clothes - cycling
T-shirts x 3
cycling jersey
knicks x 2
Juggernauts shorts
lycra tights
thermal underwear
socks x 4
cycling jacket
windproof fleece top
Showerspass rain jacket & overpants
cycling shoes
cycling mitts
Clothes - casual
shirt
jeans/travel pants
sandals/street shoes
sun hat
Personal toiletries
toothbrush )
toothpaste )
shaver )all in kit bag
soap )
shampoo )
pocket knife )
ear plugs )
bath plug )
travel towel
first-aid kit
small roll toilet paper
folding toilet trowel
Food storage
assorted plastic food jars
snap-lock bags
insulated lunch pack
Extra items
LED head torch
digital camera
fly net
thermometer (clipped outside handlebar bag)
compass
maps & map pocket
ocky straps
pens
mp3 player
book to read
cycle bidons
bike computer
1.5L water bottle
stuff sacks
sunglasses
UV blockout
RID insect spray
spare batteries
pegless clothesline
Winter Gear
Super-roubbaix skull cap
Polarfleece jacket
thermal gloves
waterproof ski gloves
overboots
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Reads like a hell of a lot of gear but i suppose once packed your well sorted.
my cycling has changed over the last 5 years or so i've gotten much slower lower back pain mainly the cause of that and lack of quality miles,i keep promising myself i'll do more on the bike but yeah seldom i do,
so yeah for me its keeping things simple light' ish bike same with camping gear but i reckon what i have QUALITY will see me out.
i'm still a pretty good cyclist well clever in the saddle put it like that, i know how to ride a bike but this touring is a whole new ball game to me very slow learner ;D ;D
aw sure i love it all the same.
anto.
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I normally carry all that gear on the bike in bags like this , with room in the front panniers for up to 5-6 days food supplies:
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/petesig26/East%20Coast%20Tasmania%202012/P1000878_zpsf3ebe4ee.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/petesig26/media/East%20Coast%20Tasmania%202012/P1000878_zpsf3ebe4ee.jpg.html)
Once you have a routine for packing it is a lot easier to put it all together, and if you follow that set routine then it is also much easier to find whatever you need when you are on the road.
All this gear, together with food for up to 6 days, will fit into 4 panniers, a handlebar bag and a rack bag without too much cursing and hair pulling. Careful folding of clothes, the use of stuff sacks to organise and compress some items and judicious organisation of spaces in your bag helps greatly. I like to use a regular pattern of packing which helps to avoid that common touring problem "Oh, it's in the other pannier". When there are four of them it can lead to a lot of frustrated rustling. So, below I give some idea of my system for packing the bags. I like to think of them in terms of packing the different rooms in my 'house'. You may of course use a different system.
Handlebar bag - The Desk
documents
travel & tourist info.
camera
mp3 player
snacks
spare gloves
pen & notebook
sunglasses
Front panniers - The Pantry
Left side - Day meals
lunch & breakfast food
fresh fruit & vegies
snack bars, nuts in pocket
Right side - Evening meals
dinner food
spare ocky straps, plastic bag, blockout, in pocket
Rear panniers - Living quarters
Left side -The Kitchen
cycling clothes
fuel canisters
cooking set
stove
mess kit
cutting board
rain jacket
tool kit & spare tubes in pocket
Right side - The Bedroom
street clothes
sleeping bag
silk inner sheet
head-torch & LED lantern
towel
toiletry bag
spare shoes
pegless clothes line, trowel & toilet paper in pocket
Rack bag - The Shelter
tent
groundsheet
rain fly
Exped Synmat
Helinox camping chair
water bag, map case & sandals strapped under ocky strap
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Nice photo of a purposeful and well-sorted bike, Pete!
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I've had very good luck over the years using Arno straps
Dan, you're right that bungees can be quite a mixed blessing. I've found Aerostich bungees to be very well made, and I also use the Rokstrap flat ones on my motorcycle journeys. (Although I'm very cautious about bringing bungees close to spokes -- have seen some dire problems resulting from bungees doing a python-like grip on the rear axles of a motorcycle...)
Over the years, I've found that these work well in various modes (paddling, motorcycling, cycling):
http://www.aerostich.com/aerostich-adjustable-bungee.html
There are newer ones that look promising as well: http://www.aerostich.com/adjustable-flat-bungee.html
You make a good point about the vulnerability of drybags to pokey things. To "pokey things" once could add "abrasion". Using ultra-light bags without some external protection can be a serious false economy. If the mounting of the drybags seems promising, I'll use them on a short trip into the Madawaska Highlands, where the multiple hills will highlight the weight savings (or not!)
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I also adopt the idea of 'rooms'. However, the contents of my rear panniers are based on dryness....
Right - under no circumstances put anything wet in here, so it it used for sleeping bag, clothes, pillow
Left - prefer to keep things dry in here, but not critical, so it is used for tools, waterproofs, sleeping mat, helinox chair, towel, spare shoes and toiletries
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Yes, same thing slightly different contents. My right side rear pannier is the 100% dry bag, and the left is the 99% dry bag.
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Hello,
I use rear panniers only. Left is for bedding/clothing/toiletries. Right is for tent/cooking gear etc.
I pack very carefully and have at last very lightweight and small pack equipment. It has 'only' taken me a lifetime to achieve this,lots of changes and expense plus loss of money due to changes.
If you can afford, only buy small and expensive. Heavy and cheaper should not be an option unless you like hard work and weight.
Regards,
John
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100% with you on that john. ;)
anto.
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only buy small and expensive
You're right, John -- less really is more.
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Bungee cords ("occy straps" in Oz) are killers, and they should be banned. I have lost expensive kit off the back of my motorbike, and abraded through others. I know plenty of people who have been injured, and I specifically eliminated them from the mining workplace wherever I was in charge.
From my motorcycle days, I have had good luck with Australian company Andy Strapz http://www.andystrapz.com/products-details.php?productId=15&productCategoryId=17&Level=1 (http://www.andystrapz.com/products-details.php?productId=15&productCategoryId=17&Level=1). These were specifically designed to eliminate hard plastic and metal hooks, and they are well made. Alternatively, I always use nylon webbing "cinch straps" for smaller jobs.
Save the planet. Give bungees the boot! 8)
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Mine are not the standard occies. I have been using the Looprope (http://www.looprope.com/) for about 2-3 years. No dangerous hooks. I have never managed to wear through any occy strap, nor the looprope. I would NEVER be willing to entrust my gear to velcro fasteners.
(http://www.allinflatables.com/shopping/looprope/looprope/tie_down_green.jpg)
Used on the bike in the approved manner, carabiners are not liable to become missiles and the looprope provides multiple gear fastenings. Great for clothes drying.
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u666/petesig26/Italia%20Tour%202013/Riding%20the%20Tyrrhenian%20Islands/IMG_1087_zpsa7d80798.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/petesig26/media/Italia%20Tour%202013/Riding%20the%20Tyrrhenian%20Islands/IMG_1087_zpsa7d80798.jpg.html)