Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Lighting and Electronics => Topic started by: Danneaux on December 18, 2012, 11:12:27 pm
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Hi All!
As the dark, dreary days of winter settle in on those of us in the Northern hemisphere, I find myself looking for more ways to increase my visibility to motorists. Besides the usual lights and reflectors on bike and clothing/gear, I've been pondering the individually-attachable spoke reflectors offered by SKS, M:Part, and a number of German supply houses.
Apparently differing only in length, these all have in common light plastic extrusions covered with 3M Scotchlite retro-reflective tape. These extrusions snap onto spokes and provide reflective visibility to the wheels. Apparently, all spokes must be covered to meet EU reflector regulations and perhaps those in the UK as well. I think covering half the wheel might garner more attention ("wobble effect"), and could be worth a try where regs don't apply.
I see MartinF uses these, and so may others here on the Forum. I've been reading about them here: http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=23493.0 and they seemed a hot topic in 2009 with an apparent decline in popularity since (perhaps the novelty attending first introduction wore off? Items on great discount at Lidl have usually hit the far side of the popularity curve...).
I have a few questions before shelling out for a complete lot:
1) Do these things stay in place on the spokes without getting lost frequently?
2) Do they cause noticeable air-drag or make whizzy-whooee noises while the wheels are turning at speed? Or that horrible clicking noise of the "spoke toys" kids attach?
3) Do they get all dirty-yucky from dirt, grease, oil and rim oxides and stop reflecting to a large degree?
4) Do you have a preferred length? Some are 40mm in length, others 80mm (probably cut in two to make the 40s). The 80s have double the surface area, so better for visibility but...?
5) Do they make a noticeable difference in wheel weight?
6) Is there a difference between brands?
I run Schwalbe Dureme tires with nicely reflective sidewalls, but was appalled at how quickly the reflective tape was ground away from a friend's sidewalls while we rode The Netherlands' many sand roads. They were largely gone after just a day's churning, and I fear a similar fate for mine once on the desert playa come late Spring. I figured these might last a bit longer, rding above the nipples, inside the rim and away from direct contact with dirt, rocks, etc.
Thanks in advance for your shared thoughts and experiences.
Best,
Dan.
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I can't really answer any of your questions. Whenever I pick up a new bike, the first thing I do is to remove the wheel reflectors - I have trouble with them aesthetically and I don't really think that they justify the extra (albeit small) weight. So the thought of investing in a set of individual ones is a bit alien to me. However I, too, would be interested to know what others do.
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Whenever I pick up a new bike, the first thing I do is to remove the wheel reflectors
Me too! I don't like the aesthetics, the effect on spoke tension (for ones that screw on), and the wheel imbalance of conventional reflectors. I've had some luck making small ones using a "flag" retro-reflective prism tape that wrapped around a spoke (or the cut-off barrel of a Bic pen, slit so it would slip over the spoke), but kinda hoped these individual ones might be a solution that would work reasonably well while addressing the problems that have me running from the conventional kind.
Best,
Dan
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i would not put them on my bike (wheels) to be totally honest bit of a gimmic i reckon.
i have enough light and reflective cloths to be seen at night .
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i would not put them on my bike (wheels) to be totally honest...
<nods> Yeah, I understand, jags. The thing about wheel reflectors is one generally has to be perpendicular to car headlights for them to work, and if they haven't seen you before then...its too late!
I guess I was hoping these little "sticks" might also reflect from the quarter-view of oncoming and closing car headlights, and might provide the "wobbling/strobing" effect I used to get from putting tape on the rim center...but with a bit better oblique viewing.
As an aside, I like the idea of these reflective stretchy-lycra overgloves: http://www.conspicuity.us/armsewstick.html ...and... http://www.gloglov.com/SportGG.html Might be nice for signaling turns at night. Waving a hand clad in one of these is bound to help catch attention.
Best,
Dan. (...for whom Hope -- in the form of daytime-inconspicuous nighttime-conspicuity -- springs eternal)
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I am very fortunate here that the amount of road traffic here is so low that "any" illumination or reflective material is enough to stand out but having ridden for many years in cities I would say in those circumstances there is no such thing as standing out too much.
I think visibility from the side is one of the nost critical (being noticed at junctions) and here is a product that is cheap, free to run and extremely light.
I think it deserves the Dan test.
Andy
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I think it deserves the Dan test.
Oh, no...not "the Dan test"!! :o :o :o
:D ;)
Sigh. I fear the inevitable is coming, though I have had dismal luck with some recent purchases...."Dan tests" are getting expendysive!
All the best,
Dan. (..."Testing"..."Testing"..."Testing"...)
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I prefer those dangling coloured strings from the ends of handle bars. :D They are seen by everyone and the reaction is either "cute" or "saddo" BUT they are very noticible which is the whole point.
However those spoke things are also noticible - I've seen them in the dark when driving.
The real question is "do I still have street cred if I put them on"
Happy Christmas Dan !
If only our village paper delivery boys & girls would think that wearing reflectives and having lights on their bikes is cool I would not worry so much about their safety ! After all their generation is the one that will keep the economy going to pay our pensions.
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Hi Dan,
I have all my family's bikes fitted with them ( and my three bikes).
They work very well and visible for nearly all the angles.
Answers to your questions ( see below)
1)Do these things stay in place on the spokes without getting lost frequently?
Yes, they fit very securely. When manipulating the bike ( fitting into the car rack with other bikes) sometimes they may partially come out; but it is a firm fit.
After each ride, quick inspection of the sticks can identify any "runner".
2) Do they cause noticeable air-drag or make whizzy-whooee noises while the wheels are turning at speed? Or that horrible clicking noise of the "spoke toys" kids attach?
I love "silent" cycling ( I am obssesive in this subject: ready to disassemble a bike to find "that noise" ) . I haven't noticed any noise originated by the sticks.
3) Do they get all dirty-yucky from dirt, grease, oil and rim oxides and stop reflecting to a large degree?
I have been using them for three years now. Sometimes you can see some darker shades ( not sure they are oil stains) but they keep pretty well.
4) Do you have a preferred length? Some are 40mm in length, others 80mm (probably cut in two to make the 40s). The 80s have double the surface area, so better for visibility but...?
I have the 8mm ones. Once you go for them, go for the full enchilada!
5) Do they make a noticeable difference in wheel weight?
I would say no. The whole packet of 40s is very light.
6) Is there a difference between brands?
I know the 3M and the ones marketed by Aldi ( supermarket) own brand .
I have the 3M ones; I have seen the Aldi ones : tempted to buy them but never did. My very personal impression was that the reflective paint didn't look evenly applied ( again, just my impression)
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1) Do these things stay in place on the spokes without getting lost frequently?
2) Do they cause noticeable air-drag or make whizzy-whooee noises while the wheels are turning at speed? Or that horrible clicking noise of the "spoke toys" kids attach?
3) Do they get all dirty-yucky from dirt, grease, oil and rim oxides and stop reflecting to a large degree?
4) Do you have a preferred length? Some are 40mm in length, others 80mm (probably cut in two to make the 40s). The 80s have double the surface area, so better for visibility but...?
5) Do they make a noticeable difference in wheel weight?
6) Is there a difference between brands?
I've had them (Sekuclips) on the bike I used for my Spanish trip for about 15 months and about 6,000 kms.
1) Yes. I used a small piece of insulating tape on the thin spokes (1.5 mm ? 1.8 mm ?) on the front wheel, as they would have been a bit loose otherwise. Not lost a single Sekuclip so far, despite a fair amount of use on bumpy tracks.
2) I don’t notice any drag or noise.
3) They do get dirty, especially on the rear wheel from drivetrain muck, but I had derailleur gears at the time so messier. I clean them from time to time. After cleaning they still reflect reasonably well, but of course not as good as when new.
I've since fitted Sekuclips to 2 other bikes. The new Thorn has them on both wheels and has a Chainglider so they should stay cleaner. My old 5-speed only on the front, because I fitted the Sekuclips before I got the Chainglider
I find tyre reflectors on bikes ridden in wet weather get very dull quite quickly with rim brake debris, plus drivetrain muck on the rear. In my opinion, the Sekuclips stay cleaner for longer.
4) As they are very light I think 80 mm length is probably best, this is what was available locally
5) Not for me.
6) Don’t know, only Sekuclip is easy to get locally.
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Spoke (or tyre) reflectors are mandatory here in France. I reckon ordinary wheel reflectors are fairly useless as only really visible from the side, so would be seen too late to avoid collision in most circumstances.
In my opinion, the only reflectors that really matter are the ones facing straight back. I’m not a great believer in the benefit of wheel reflectors, but, as I have to fit them to stay legal, I prefer Sekuclips. Being cylindrical, they are visible from quite wide angles and they don't fall off/cause wheel balance issues like some of the ordinary wheel reflectors.
Its raining quite heavily here, so photo taken in a damp and cluttered garage, lit from the flash (none of the bike lights are in operation). The Sekuclips on the blue bike are the ones that have been used for 15 months - they are much more noticeable than the tyre reflector on the red bike. The orange-red stripes on the mudflap don't show up all that well at the photo angle, but they are very visible from directly behind. The reflector on the mudguard mounted B&M Seculight still shows up well in the photo, but isn't very visible once the viewing angle is increased.
The front reflector on the Brompton shows up quite well, but is almost directly in line with the camera, in practice I don't think it is much use, its only there to comply with regulations.
You can also just make out the reflective tyre logo and wheel reflector on the Brompton front wheel. This reflector is "Moonline", which was available a few years ago. It is a similar concept to the Sekuclips, a cylindrical tube coated with reflective material, but fitted as a continuous length woven between the spokes and running parallel to the rim to form a complete circle. In my opinion, better than ordinary wheel reflectors, but not as simple and less visible than Sekuclips
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There is another small advantage to Sekuclips. At the moment they are unusual, so they should get noticed more than the standard type
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I use the standard BUMM wheel reflectors, a curved rectangle, amber, double sided, an opposed clip to each side which hold the reflector by tension between two spokes. I dispose mine at the two quarters of the wheel perpendicular to the line through the Presta and the computer's signal magnet for the best balance. I don't care about the tension on the spokes; if you wheel is so badly built that so little weight and tension upsets it, it is far, far too dangerous to ride.
Aesthetics are personal, but I'm an artist and a critic who's never been known to pull a punch, and they don't bother me. As for their functionality, I'd give up the reflecting band around the tyre before I give up those four amber rotating reflectors. If you've ever watched from a car as a bicycle with them fitted ride across an intersection, you would know why I am so strongly in favour of them.
As for the reflectors that clip on to individual spokes, I looked into them, and also into those that are electrically illuminated, right up to sending a scrolling message ("My bike and I weigh a lot. Your car will be very expensively damaged. And my lawyers are piranhas.") to motorists to stay clear, and decided that any and all of them are superfluous to requirements when one has the effective, modest, unobtrusive amber pair per wheel described above.
Matter of taste, really, I suppose. But I consider the BUMM pair per wheel the acceptable fuctional minimum for me. They're also the best value for money item in the BUMM catalogue.
Andre Jute
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Over the summer I was driving at dusk through a rather busy town and came upon a few young cyclists wearing dark clothing. The only reflectors they had were on the pedals, but those really helped. That got me on the quest for pedal reflectors.
I went over to my local LBS, just around the corner. The owner has a big tub full of junk parts, which he dumped out on the gravel driveway for easier searching. He helped me find a couple old press-in plastic pedal reflectors. I found another couple, but in pulling them out of the pedals they were in, I snapped off one of the press-in fittings. Oops! The owner tossed me a plastic bag with some snap-on wheel reflectors and said "You can't be too visible!" I hadn't been thinking about those but then I figured, yeah, probably he is right! So I put them on my bike too.
I tried gluing on that one pedal reflector whose fitting I had snapped. That held for a month or so, and then another reflector came off too. Probably that was on the same crazy ride/push where I destroyed the connector for my rear light wiring! Anyway, I bought some screw-on pedal reflectors which I hope hold up better!
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Here is a photo of my bike down in the basement with just the camera flash. I didn't take care to orient those spoke reflectors but anyway I can't see them at all!
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/kukulaj/Nomad/IMG_1563_zpsc406e608.jpg)
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I just saw Martin's photograph, and went down with my camera to discover what my bike reflects rearwards. I've changed my mind. I think I'll look into the Sekuclips again. Thanks for raising it, Dan.
The Sekuclips on the blue bike are the ones that have been used for 15 months - they are much more noticeable than the tyre reflector on the red bike.
You can say that again. Thanks for the photo, Martin. Nothing like someone else with actual experience to help you make up your mind.
Andre Jute
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Hi All!
This...is an outstanding response far beyond what I hoped for; thanks so very much! What a nice illustration of our collective power in wisdom and knowledge present on this Forum -- Yay!
I think I will indeed spring for a complete set of the 80mm Scotchlite spoke reflectors and give it a go. The care you all took to answer each of my questions really shows, and Martin's photo was truly worth a thousand words, showing just the sort of oblique visibility I was hoping for (Jim...your photo reflects [sorry] my own experience with conventional spoke reflectors from this angle of approach, typical for traffic closing from the rear): Invisibility. Tartalo's got these on multiple bike, and Martin has lengthy experience with them in conditions similar to mine; I'm sold.
I prefer those dangling coloured strings from the ends of handle bars.
Chris, it may help your street cred to know these are actually popular with some outlaw motorcycle gangs here on this side of the pond. They fit them as a sort of open dare so they can ehm, "respond" to any untoward comments. It must work, as *no* one ever says a disparaging word and, as you've found, they're surely noticeable. Seriously. I'm uh, taking a closer look at you already, Chris: You've got those dangling coloured strings on the ends of your 'bars. Uh-huh. DEFINITELY not "cute" or "saddo". Instead: Respect. Word! 8) The spoke things can't possibly hurt your street cred. Happy Christmas to you, too; thanks!...I looked into them, and also into those that are electrically illuminated, right up to sending a scrolling message ("My bike and I weigh a lot. Your car will be very expensively damaged. And my lawyers are piranhas.")
Snerk! Andre, I was drinking water when I read this, and have not yet recovered from the results of so much laughter! Man, can you ever write.
Thanks again, everyone named and unnamed; I greatly appreciate your efforts.
Best,
Dan. (...Glad I spoke about it; time to stop reflecting and buy!)
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Hi All!
The deed is done. I went with an eBay vendor ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spoke-Reflectors-3M-Scotchlite-Reflective-Safety-Wheel-ReflectaClip-Sekuclip-36-/160940615732?pt=UK_Cycling_Clothing&var=&hash=item2578cee834#shId ) after checking the prices including shipping to the US from all online sources I could find; these were the best deal to here. This is not an endorsement of the vendor, just passing along the lister I purchased from, who is based in Harrow, UK.
These are the 8mm jobbies, listed as 3M Scotchlite and the words ReflectaClip Sekuclip appeared in the listing title. I went for 72. This should be enough to cover *all* the spokes in the Nomad (32x2) with 8 left over for spares or to fit to my rando bike so it is that much more visible. Or, I could fit a bunch to 1/3 of each wheel on most of my bikes to get that attention-getting "wobble-effect" (no regs on how many must be used here in 'Merka).
As with most cycle-safety stuff, I keep thinking about how I'd just kick (what was left of) myself if I got hit by a car 'cos I was too tight to spend the money, which is modest as these things go. Seems worth a try. If they don't work for me, I may sell off the lot or bits of it, so stay tuned. If they get grubby, I figure I can drop them in my little ultrasonic cleaner with some dishwashing detergent and they should clean right up. I'll be Dan-testing these...for Science! For physics!
All the best,
Dan. (...who wonders how increased nighttime visibility on the road can be made congruent with stealth camping)
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As with most cycle-safety stuff, I keep thinking about how I'd just kick (what was left of) myself if I got hit by a car 'cos I was too tight to spend the money, which is modest as these things go. Seems worth a try.
In my opinion a powerful front lamp is the most important piece of equipment for reducing the likelihood of accidents at junctions and on roundabouts, the other main danger is being hit from behind, so rear-facing reflectors and rear lamps are also essential. My current favourites are the rack-mounted B&M Line Plus dynamo lamp, with a Cateye LD1100 battery lamp on the seatpost. The latter has the advantage of additional side-facing LEDs. On the new Thorn and my 5-speed commuter I also have a third rear lamp, a B&M Seculight on the mudguard, so two rear lights running from the SON Klassik dynohub.
The B&M Line Plus won't fit on the old carrier on my blue bike, so that only has B&M Seculight and Cateye LD1100.
Reflectors only work if the driver's lights are pointing at the bike, so I reckon the other reflectors (wheel, front, pedal) and reflective jacket have a marginal effect. But as they are mandatory here I might as well have the most effective ones.
The most important thing is to remember that despite having all these lights and reflective devices, sometimes a driver won't see you simply because they haven't looked properly. This is a particular problem with large roundabouts. Rain and darkness exacerbates the problem, when visibility from a motor vehicle is drastically reduced.
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On the new Thorn and my 5-speed commuter I also have a third rear lamp, a B&M Seculight on the mudguard, so two rear lights running from the SON Klassik dynohub.
That's interesting. How have you got these wired? Separate wires from the front light or in series? I have the seculight and two battery lights (smart 1/2 watt on seat post and cateye ? has a flat profile on rack). I used to have two toplights but I found the quality poor and they eventually died due to water ingress. Overall, I have mixed feeling about BUMM products, the IQ Fly is still going strong after 3 or more years but the others have been less robust.
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That's interesting. How have you got these wired? Separate wires from the front light or in series?
The rack-mounted Line Plus is connected as normal from the front light, and I have the mudguard mounted Seculight connected in parallel from the Line Plus. Seems to work OK.
I have the seculight and two battery lights (smart 1/2 watt on seat post and cateye ? has a flat profile on rack). I used to have two toplights but I found the quality poor and they eventually died due to water ingress. Overall, I have mixed feeling about BUMM products, the IQ Fly is still going strong after 3 or more years but the others have been less robust.
I have had good luck with B&M, except for switches on battery or Senso Plus rear lamps and Lumotec front lamps for hub dynamos. These B&M slide switches aren't designed for all-weather use and always failed after a certain amount of wet-weather.
But not (yet) had any problems with the Cyo rotating switch, and I have had some of my Cyos since they were first introduced.
Incidentally, I am not that bothered by the change in the Cyo beam. I have the original model on two bikes, and the new model on 2 others.
Some of the non-switched Toplights on family bikes have been used for over 10 years without any problems, including the one I had on my 2001 Brompton, which got exceptionally gruelling use (loads of vibration, lots of wet weather use) when I was using my Brompton intensively on coastal survey work contracts. The Toplight on the Brompton is retired now, as I consider the Line Plus to be more visible to following traffic, and the Brompton often gets nocturnal use in urban situations.
A non-switched halogen Lumotec also saw more than 10 years of use on my commuter bike (and several bulb replacements). It was still working when I replaced it with a Cyo to keep up in the lighting arms race.
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I put some sekuclips on my Nomad. They do fit loosely on the spokes - not so loose that they could fall off, but they do slide up and down the spokes.
I did a rough calculation - at about 4 mph the centripetal force should be enough to keep them spun out by the rim. Even a bit slower they'll probably hesitate to drop. But definitely when I am walking my bike, I can hear those things going up and down.
I haven't been out riding at night since I got them. My little flashlight tests do indicate they should work well!
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Hi Jim!
Mine arrived the last day of December -- 72 of them! I have been having fun playing with them, but am also a bit disappointed they don't stay in place until the wheel is spinning fast enough to throw them out against the spoke nipples. I treasure a quiet bike, and these go click-click-click. Makes me wonder about just how quiet a Chainglider might be.
I found not all the 72 are loose; some are extremely firm. I...am investigating to see what effect a heat gun will have. If I can induce a slight lateral arc, I think they will stay in place very nicely and remain quiet. I might be able to tweak them a little bit with just some gentle hand pressure
One thing I can't dispute -- these things are *bright* and very effective. I currently have two per wheel, and they show from nearly all angles other than dead-on. I got the 8cm versions, and each weighs 1.7-1.8g (or "not much").
Each zip-top baggie contains a sealed straw full of...something. I'll contact the seller later today, but at present, this is a mystery. A powder to make it easier to snap the reflectors on the spokes? Some sort of breakaway adhesive? Not-knowing will drive me crazy...
All the best,
Dan. ("Drive me crazy"? Won't be a long trip...)
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Hey Dan,
I suspect it's some sugary candy. I bought from the same vendor.
Yeah, they don't all slide. I suppose a touch of glue would do, but I expect I will just leave them be.
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I suspect it's some sugary candy
??? :o
You go first, Jim... ;)
All the best,
Dan. (who thinks it could be candy...the seller also included a nice Christmas card with the order)
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Hi All!
I did indeed hear back from the seller who tells me the little included straws contains sherbet powder ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherbet_(powder) ) ..."just a little something to sweeten your day".
A very pleasant surprise indeed, and a nice little "value added" extra from the seller.
I can't believe how bright these spoke reflectors are, nor how visible they are in practice. It is 20°F/-7°C this morning, but before it got really cold last night, I spent some time with the bike in its stand and me sitting behind the wheel of the car, headlights blasting forward to catch the bike from various angles. Sure, these reflectors work from the side as expected, but just as MartinF's photos showed, they also work from front quarter-oblique and rear-oblique angles as well, and really catch a driver's eyes. I had expected something of the sort from Martin's camera flash, but they are just as impressive in headlights.
I experimented for a bit (here where no specific regulations exist requiring full coverage), and found placing 2-4 on adjacent spokes gives a very attention-grabbing "wobble" effect in the lights. Given the dulled senses of many of the drivers here'bouts, this can only help.
I also found imparting a slight lateral bow to the reflector (i.e. "bending in hands") gives just enough friction for them to stay put on the spokes and not rattle when walking the bike.
So, yes, these appear successful all 'round at this point, and I'm a happy camper. I got the 72-pack of 8cm ones, and this leaves me the freedom to attach them to all the Nomad's 32x2 spokes if I wish and still leaves 8 left over (4/wheel) for the rando bike. At an average of 1.8g each, these will add a total of 115.2g/4oz to both wheels, spaced evenly so balance is not affected. Going with the 4cm version would halve the weight but would also be far less visible -- it is partly the greater length that allows these reflectors to follow the spokes toward the hub, peek out more beyond the rim and tire at an angle, and so better shine in the lights of oncoming or closing vehicles.
They address pretty much all of my complaints against ordinary wheel reflectors, including appearance and wheel balance and have the added bonus of being visible from more acute angles.
Best,
Dan.
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I put some sekuclips on my Nomad. They do fit loosely on the spokes - not so loose that they could fall off, but they do slide up and down the spokes.
On my bikes, the Sekuclips fit firmly on all but one of the wheels. Most have 2 mm spokes.
The front wheel on my blue bike has butted spokes (1.8 mm or maybe 1.6 mm in the middle). Sekuclips wouldn't fit properly on this. The mechanic at my local bike shop suggested using a small bit of insulating tape around each spoke and this did the trick.
The rear wheel on my wife's Brompton has 2.3 mm spokes. No problem fitting the Sekuclips on this.
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The mechanic at my local bike shop suggested using a small bit of insulating tape around each spoke and this did the trick.
An excellent solution for those of us with butted spokes Martin; a good share; thanks!
Bending them slightly to induce a slight arc before snapping them on does the trick, too.
All the best,
Dan. (...happy Sekuclip user who really appreciated your excellent photos of them)
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Hi Dan
Just wondring how you are getting on with these now you have had a chance to put a few miles on the clock?
Andy
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Very pleased at this point, Andy, and so far they are exceeding all my expectations, so I am labeling them a "success"!
I didn't expect them to be *so* visible at night. One of my prime motivators in getting them was to increase visibility from oblique angles. They surely do that, and are highly visible from just off-center to a light approaching from front or rear.
Also, nice as the reflective sidewall strips on Schwalbe's tires are, they can be worn away quickly by abrasive surfaces. As we toured the Netherlands' sand roads, my riding partner's tires lost their reflective stripes in a day's use, churning through the soft sand. I will be using my bike in desert playa and figure a similar fate could befall them. The spoke reflectors are above the rim, and so are not subject to the same grinding and abrasion as the tire sidewalls and should remain reflective for a long time.
Some of my front reflectors were loose, and MartinF's suggestion of a small strip of electrical tape between the reflector and spoke solved the problem. Curiously, none of the reflectors were a loose fit on the rear wheel's spokes.
The retro-reflective effect is nearly identical in brilliance and reflectivity to the 3M Scotchlite patches on Ortlieb bags. I initially experimented with just a pair of reflectors per wheel, thinking the "bobbing" effect might be more eye-catching to a driver, but this is trumped wholly by the far greater reflective area achieved by fitting a reflector to *all* spokes. When the wheel turns, it makes an 8cm wide band of silver-white reflected light all the way 'round the wheel. They're truly lightweight and are evenly distributed, so there is no imbalance as a result of fitting them.
I've made some unfortunate purchases in the last 6 months or so that I regret; not so these. A really solid product so far. Long-term, they may wear or become dim, but for now...outstanding, in my opinion.
One last thought in closing: I got the matte black bike thinking it would help me blend in while wild-camping at night. That is still true in the absence of light shown on the spoke reflectors, and a real bonus. I had thought about removing them before my big tour, but have since reconsidered. A popular sport in some desert areas (like the Central Oregon Sand Dunes, where there isn't much to hit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Valley_Sand_Dunes *) is for four-wheel-drive enthusiasts to head out cross-country, bashing through sand, sagebrush, and whatever off-road day...and night. I'm thinking if the bike is propped upright on its Click-Stand and every spoke is reflectorized, it just might catch the eye of a nighttime off-roader before he would otherwise flatten the tent and me in it. In that circumstance, I'd be grateful for every stray lumen they reflect. That's the one instance I'd really hope someone *did* discover my stealth camp.
Yep, at this point, "Danneaux-recommended".
Best,
Dan. (*...who thinks the Lost Forest is an interesting place as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Forest_Research_Natural_Area )
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I pulled my winter tires off yesterday & put back on the Supremes. One thing I discovered is that the spoke reflectors interfere a bit with tire irons. They're too fat to let me hook the iron over the spoke. I found if I pushed the reflector all the way to the spoke crossing, and even turned the reflector so the opening aligned with the spoke crossing so I could push the reflector down that little bit more, then that got the reflector out of the way and I could hook the tire iron on the spoke.
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I put my spoke reflectors on just eight spokes of each wheel, this gives a nice moving reflection but allows enough free spokes to use tyre levers.
It also means I can give my sons some spoke reflectors...
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Hi All!
I have posted a video of the spoke reflectors in action (rear wheel) and static (front wheel) on my YouTube Channel, TheSherpaRider: http://youtu.be/NOxhVRqw2bI
This video shows the 3M 80mm spokes reflectors mounted on the wheels of my matte black Thorn Nomad Mk2. Light source was a single-point Dorcy 145 lumen LED wearable headlight at 8 meters. There are 32 reflectors on each wheel.
Even off-axis with this low-power source, the reflectors are very noticeable.
The spoke reflectors are much brighter in the beam of car headlights, but this gives some idea of the "band of light" that is created when the wheels spin.
Best,
Dan. (...who thinks his sister was pretty terrific for providing motive power to the Nomad's rear wheel for the video)
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Thanks for the thorough review on them Dan including the video (top marks for using multimedia in your presentation). Certainly look like you get plenty of bang for your buck.
Will definetly be adding a set to the Nomad - We have very little traffic here - especially at night - which is sort of a double edged sword: I can go out and ride 60km at night and not see another vehicle on the road but on the other hand the rare car user is expecting the same and not really looking out for or giving any attention to other road users.
It is one situation where am going to pay for having 40 spokes per wheel!
Pass on my regards and thanks to your sister
Cheers
Andy
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Bought 3 packs of 36 so 80 for the bike and few spares for a rainy day
Andy
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Yay, Andy!
I hope your experience will be as positive as mine so far, and I hope the long-term prospects will be good for each of us. I have done some experimenting with the spares I have, and found severe "road smut" (road oil, dirty rainwater, and a mix of chain oil) can damp the reflectivity somewhat, but a removal and dousing in liquid dish soap and a quick round in the ultrasonic cleaner and they came up as-new once again. Hopefully, this will bode well for long-term use.
As for Jim's troubles with tire levers, I can surely see the potential for conflict between the reflectors and the tire levers. I played some this morning, and found I could simply slide the little reflective tubes further up the spokes. I generally don't use tire levers at all, and when I do, I never hook them over the spokes, so I hadn't run across this possible shortcoming myself. Another good example of how out collective experience is a terrific resource for finding problems and solutions we might not have found so readily on our own. Thanks for spotting this one, Jim.
All the best,
Dan.
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Ultrasonic cleaner? Is that the posh version of shaking the tin really quickly?
Does it work on cleaning chains?
Andy (who always makes a buzzing noise when manualy winding the windows on the car)
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(who always makes a buzzing noise when manualy winding the windows on the car)
I do that too!...but only when I have a passenger I want to impress. The car is already 24 years old and lacks electric windows, cup holders, airbags, and ABS, so I impress with what I have. ;)
Yes! Ultrasonic cleaners are useful. Cool, and/or hot also, depending on one's age demographic (yesterday's cool is today's hot...or dope; I try to keep up).
I got mine from my favorite reasonable-quality-cheap-tools place, Harbor Freight: http://www.harborfreight.com/ultrasonic-cleaner-3305.html They also now offer a cleaning powder for it, which I have yet to try. So far, the blue LEDs that light while operating and give the water a pseudo-radioactive look seem to be working fine, along with some liquid dish soap.
Speaking of Harbor...I can get lost in that place, and typically visit a couple times a week. Overall, their quality is now much better than a decade ago, but there are some wonderful values now. Harbor Freight has now become successful enough to commission and/or fund some very innovative tool designs of its own and offer them at reasonable prices. The ultrasonic cleaner ended up costing me USD$8.99 when I stacked a sale price and a 20% off coupon. It has run faithfully for the last 4 years.
For greasy-cleany stuff, I go with my solvent-based dash tank, filled with mineral spirits. Basically, it is a large diameter metal can with a flip-up lid. Inside is a large spring that supports a perforated platform. You put the desired dirty/greasy item on the platform, then depress the platform. Do it enough, and the old, greasy dirt is washed out and the part rises phoenix-like, clean and shiny as new. There's a small parts tray that is perforated and goes on the main platform as well. There is some slight loss of mineral spirits over time, but a typical charge has me cleaning derailleur drivetrains monthly for about 6 years. At that time, I recycle the 'spirits at the local solvent works and start anew. I use Nirtile gloves to protect my hands, and a metal rod to depress the spring-loaded platform. Works a treat.
You can also get much the same effect as the ultrasonic cleaner and the solvent dash tank if you fill a 1-2l PET drinks bottle with Simple Green or a similar water-based solvent, toss in the item, recap securely, and shake it like mad. This can work well for cleaning chains, though I've found (to great dismay and a cleanup roughly equal to something EXXON might deal with) that a) it really pays to make *sure* the cap is secure and b) beyond a couple uses, the Simple Green makes the PET brittle and it can crack, leading to unintended cleaning of a larger series of products.
All the best,
Dan. (...who has found "Green" is not always simple, but Simple Green usually is)