Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Rohloff Internal Hub Gears => Topic started by: Dunroving on July 07, 2023, 05:23:45 pm
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Hi, sorry for a real newbie question, and yes, I have searched for this topic. As per title, my Rohloff now only gives 13 gears (12 "clicks"), whereas it used to give me 14. I've searched the interWeb but every time this comes up as a topic, it is to do with the Rohloff having only 13 gears from original set-up (so, set-up is the issue, such as wrong cable length), or after replacing cables. Neither applies in my case.
In my case, my Rohloff has given me 14 gears since I had it (about 18 months), and I've just realised it's now giving me only 13 gears - and from the twist grip markings, looks like it's gear 14 ("hardest" gear) that's missing. I don't know exactly when the change occurred, as I've not had the need to use the full range of gears my last few rides. However, I did recently remove the "gear control box" in order to remove the wheel and wonder if this could be a clue?
I'm about to ride Ireland and am very wary of doing anything drastic to try to fix it (like cutting the cable!) - I'd rather do the ride with only 13 gears and fix it when I get back than do something that can't be rectified before I leave. But if there are any simple things I can be looking at before I leave, any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, all.
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Sounds like you haven’t put the gear twist shifter into the correct gear before hand. I can’t remember which gear you need to select but it’s in the manual.
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Sounds like you haven’t put the gear twist shifter into the correct gear before hand. I can’t remember which gear you need to select but it’s in the manual.
IIRC, you put it in top or bottom gear before removing (and don't mess with the twist shifter while the wheel is off). I have done this a handful of times without any issue.
I just removed the gear control box and in doing so realised that one of the cables was jammed up against the bike frame. I'll post photos in a bit, but currently I am unable to get the gear control box to go back on! I know it's supposed to "click" on, but it's not playing ball. I'll try a couple more times and if that doesn't work, I'll put the bike away for the night and post the photos.
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Sounds like you haven’t put the gear twist shifter into the correct gear before hand. I can’t remember which gear you need to select but it’s in the manual.
IIRC, you put it in top or bottom gear before removing (and don't mess with the twist shifter while the wheel is off). I have done this a handful of times without any issue.
I just removed the gear control box and in doing so realised that one of the cables was jammed up against the bike frame. I'll post photos in a bit, but currently I am unable to get the gear control box to go back on! I know it's supposed to "click" on, but it's not playing ball. I'll try a couple more times and if that doesn't work, I'll put the bike away for the night and post the photos.
I now have the gear control box on and wheel tightened down. I can now get 14 (gears" (13 "clicks" on the twist grip, whereas I could only get 13 "gears" (12 clicks) before. However, when pedalling, it still only goes to the 13th gear.
One thing I noticed when watching the YouTube video on Shand's YT channel is that their torque arm seems torquey - moves, but springs back. My torque arm doesn't seem very fluid in comparison. It wants to be in one position and will move, but not readily (it feels stuck and when I push it, it moves but is then still feeling a bit stuck in its new position).
<<sigh>> I love my Rohloff, but any time I mess with removing the wheel it doesn't seem as straightforward as it should be.
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Well, I thought I just posted a YT video link and three photos, but when I clicked "Post", it didn't load for some reason. Time for some tea, I think.
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Cr@p, just tried loading the photos again, but no joy. When I click on "Post" the post disappears, but hasn't loaded.
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OK, break it down into component parts.
Disconnect the cable box:
Does the shifter turn smoothly from from gear 1 showing to gear 14?
With an 8mm spanner, on the exposed part of the external mechanism, can you get all 13 clicks?
With it on a stand, or upside down, can the gears rotate freely whilst changing gear with a spanner and the cable box disconnected?
If you can get all the gears with a spanner and the shifter is moving freely, then it's just misaligned - Shifter in 14, nut turned all the way anti-clockwise. It does sometimes need a bit of a jiggle, rocking the shifter can help, just be careful not to lose a position when doing so.
If either the disconnected shifter, or the hub without, isn't offering the full range, knowing which narrows it down.
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Cr@p, just tried loading the photos again, but no joy. When I click on "Post" the post disappears, but hasn't loaded.
For the youtube just post a link.
The photos might be a size thing, I' don't know, I always host elsewhere.
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Cr@p, just tried loading the photos again, but no joy. When I click on "Post" the post disappears, but hasn't loaded.
For the youtube just post a link.
The photos might be a size thing, I' don't know, I always host elsewhere.
Thanks for the detailed reply. Photos were a size issue. I'll post reduced size photos and YouTube link tomorrow.
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OK, I've resized the photos to be < 512kB so hopefully this will work. These pictures show:
(1) the cable box on the bike, in which you can see it was previously re-attached (by me) with the upper cable barrel (not the barrel adjuster; the barrel that sits in a notch in the cable box) at right angles, and the cable jammed up against the frame. I honestly don't remember it being tight up against the frame, but I do recall it being more difficult than it should be to press the cable box onto the external nut/s. If you compare my photo to the point at 0:44 in Shand's YT video (see link below), it's in a completely different position - but that is related to the (I think) torque arm - see also below, comments about torque arm.
(2) the cable box in my hand, showing how "loosey-goosey" the cables are - when fitting the cable box onto the external nut/s, the wee barrel thing does waggle around, hence possibly how it ended up being refitted in the wrong position.
(3) the external nut, torque arm, etc. in position without the cable box, in case someone can see something obviously awry.
Every time I have removed and re-fitted the cable box (about 4 times now, to remove the wheel in order to attach/remove mudguards), it's always seemed much more of a faff to get the cable box back on than in the video I typically use (Shand's video, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0CtpowOi9I&list=PLTuqXgTZqht1OJRn3pnd8AGW2SNXPJlHH&index=2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0CtpowOi9I&list=PLTuqXgTZqht1OJRn3pnd8AGW2SNXPJlHH&index=2)).
Specifically, at about 1:18 in the video, when Russell is re-inserting the wheel, the torque arm seems like a torque arm - moves back and forth with pressure, but is "springy". Mine doesn't seem like that - it is stiff and needs to be pushed backwards, and forwards, until it's in a position for the cable box to go back. I'm wondering whether that is causing the problem.
I haven't done anything this morning as I'm still fearful of messing up something that makes it worse, and that I can't remedy. Going to call the local bike shop to see if they have experience with Rohloff - time is tight at the moment and I've only just discovered this problem shortly before taking the bike for transport to Ireland. If the LBS can't sort it, I may just leave it as is and report back here in August after I get back.
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I've just had another go at removing and replacing the cable box, trying to replicate the position in Shand's video. Now the twist shifter is REALLY loose. Normally, it would waggle about half a gear marking on the shifter before clicking into the next gear. Now I can waggle it back and forth about two gear markings before it engages and clicks. I feel like I am making a bad situation worse!
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OK, break it down into component parts.
Disconnect the cable box:
Does the shifter turn smoothly from from gear 1 showing to gear 14?
With an 8mm spanner, on the exposed part of the external mechanism, can you get all 13 clicks?
With it on a stand, or upside down, can the gears rotate freely whilst changing gear with a spanner and the cable box disconnected?
If you can get all the gears with a spanner and the shifter is moving freely, then it's just misaligned - Shifter in 14, nut turned all the way anti-clockwise. It does sometimes need a bit of a jiggle, rocking the shifter can help, just be careful not to lose a position when doing so.
If either the disconnected shifter, or the hub without, isn't offering the full range, knowing which narrows it down.
I have followed your steps (1) and (2), above, in conjunction with this very brief but helpful YT video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2p80rzbtP0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2p80rzbtP0)
With cable box off, using an 8 mm spanner, I do get 14 gears (13 "clicks"). The twist shifter also moves freely from 1 to 14.
When I replace the cable box, following the YT video above (click the nut all the way anti-clockwise to gear 14, and twist the shifter to gear 14 before replacing the cable box), I still can only get 13 gears/12 "clicks". I haven't tried it on the work stand yet, but I do notice the twist shifter is VERY loose - I can rotate it it one gear in each direction before the gear change engages. This is definitely looser than it used to be (although I have always thought it was a bit loose - I've always been able to maybe twist it a half-gear in each direction without it engaging, which has never felt right).
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The theory is if you always put your gear shifter into 1 or 14, before you remove the EX box, then if you bump the shifter or stress a cable that can move it before you reassemble, you know where to reset the shifter before you reassemble.
In your case, you say you only have 13 gears. One is missing, either 1 or 14.
If your shifter won't go to 1 on the number plate, the lowest your shifter will go to on the shifter number plate is 2, then you know that when your shifter plate says you are in gear 2 that you really are in your lowest gear which is 1. With the shifter in your lowest gear, remove the EX box, move your shifter to 1 on the number plate, reassemble.
If the EX Box does not want to go on, you have to jiggle your shifter cables a bit so that the hex shaped hole on the cable spool in the EX box lines up with the hex shaped knob on the wheel that your EX box goes over. Just make sure that you did not jiggle the cables so much that you moved the shifter so far that it is no longer in the right gear on the shifter number plate.
Or, if instead your shifter won't go to 14 on the number plate, the highest the shifter will go to on the number plate is 13, then you know that when your shifter plate says you are in gear 13 that you really are in your highest gear which is 14. With the shifter in your highest gear, remove the EX box, move your shifter to 14 on the number plate, reassemble.
I never bother to set my shifter to 1 or 14 before I disassemble because I simply forget to do it. The first time I only had 13 gears on reassembly, it drove me nuts until I realized that I must have bumped the shifter or pulled on a cable which moved the shifter position. Once I figured out how to remedy it, I never worried about it again, it is a simple fix when it happens.
That said, you stated:
...I just removed the gear control box and in doing so realised that one of the cables was jammed up against the bike frame. ...
If one of your cables is not properly threaded through the frame cable guides or has been damaged, that could cause problems that prevent it from working right.
On torque arm issues, I can't comment. I have a Thorn bike which uses an OEM plate instead, not a torque arm.
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The theory is if you always put your gear shifter into 1 or 14, before you remove the EX box, then if you bump the shifter or stress a cable that can move it before you reassemble, you know where to reset the shifter before you reassemble.
In your case, you say you only have 13 gears. One is missing, either 1 or 14.
If your shifter won't go to 1 on the number plate, the lowest your shifter will go to on the shifter number plate is 2, then you know that when your shifter plate says you are in gear 2 that you really are in your lowest gear which is 1. With the shifter in your lowest gear, remove the EX box, move your shifter to 1 on the number plate, reassemble.
If the EX Box does not want to go on, you have to jiggle your shifter cables a bit so that the hex shaped hole on the cable spool in the EX box lines up with the hex shaped knob on the wheel that your EX box goes over. Just make sure that you did not jiggle the cables so much that you moved the shifter so far that it is no longer in the right gear on the shifter number plate.
Or, if instead your shifter won't go to 14 on the number plate, the highest the shifter will go to on the number plate is 13, then you know that when your shifter plate says you are in gear 13 that you really are in your highest gear which is 14. With the shifter in your highest gear, remove the EX box, move your shifter to 14 on the number plate, reassemble.
I never bother to set my shifter to 1 or 14 before I disassemble because I simply forget to do it. The first time I only had 13 gears on reassembly, it drove me nuts until I realized that I must have bumped the shifter or pulled on a cable which moved the shifter position. Once I figured out how to remedy it, I never worried about it again, it is a simple fix when it happens.
That said, you stated:
...I just removed the gear control box and in doing so realised that one of the cables was jammed up against the bike frame. ...
If one of your cables is not properly threaded through the frame cable guides or has been damaged, that could cause problems that prevent it from working right.
On torque arm issues, I can't comment. I have a Thorn bike which uses an OEM plate instead, not a torque arm.
Thanks for the added information, Mick. [I have looked for a "thumbs up" button to thank responders, but can't see one]
Couple of developments: (1) I discovered another very brief but helpful YT video from the same folks who created the other very brief one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HInYif8GIa0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HInYif8GIa0) - it's related to cable play, which I interpret as also being related to twist shifter "wiggle" or "loosey-gooseyness". Therefore, after checking this, (2) my cable end barrels were pretty tight in the cable box, so I loosened the barrel adjuster a little and now I do get 14 gears, although Gear 1 does seem a bit "tight" (twist shifter only just agrees to go into 1st gear). I take this as meaning that it just requires a bit of fine-tuning of the cable tightness.
Regarding your comment about whether the shifter will "go to" 1 or 14, my shifter is so slack that even when I can only get 13 gears, the shifter would go to the 1 or 14 position, it just wouldn't change gear. I've read that the twist shifter should have a little play in it, but mine has always had more than what I'd call a "little" play.
I am still a bit concerned that the position of my torque arm is rather random, and the torque arm is pretty stiff. However, I now know what it should look like when it's in the right position, with the two cables running parallel to the chain stay, roughly, so am OK at the moment with the fact my Rohloff does work across all 14 gears and will look into that when I come back from my Ireland trip. Don't fix what isn't broke, as they say.
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Forget this, start with my post below then come back to it!
I am still a bit concerned that the position of my torque arm is rather random, and the torque arm is pretty stiff.
That would concern me as well. the torque plate (i assume we're talking about the OEM2 version) should only fit in one place, with an appropriate fitting holding it there.
Other than that, I think your cables are too loose, it isn't possible to tell from photos, though I can't imagine anyone fitting a cable that didn't require the adjusters to be further out than you have yours. There's also a slight possibility, that a loose cable has come out of the pully grove, don't be frightened of taking the cover off and having a look. This youtube gives an idea of what it should look like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_ha9__3VLg&t=95s
If you've got all 14 gears with a spanner, the shifter is moving freely and the OEM plate is positioned correctly, I really can't see it being anything other than a cable issue.
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STOP!
If your photos are correct. your OEM plate is not positioned correctly, do not ride your bike like this.
Excuse the crude diagram, this cutout should surround a bolt or fitting, it's what stops the hub rotating, have you removed something? It looks like it would line up with that top hole.
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STOP!
If your photos are correct. your OEM plate is not positioned correctly, do not ride your bike like this.
Excuse the crude diagram, this cutout should surround a bolt or fitting, it's what stops the hub rotating, have you removed something? It looks like it would line up with that top hole.
I've attached clearer photos of its current position (which is different from the photos I posted previously, that you are responding to). I have also attached the only screen grab I have ever found that has a similar modular drop-out set-up to mine (and I've Googled for it several times before).
I agree with what you are saying - intuitively, the U-shaped notch at the top of the OEM plate looks like it should be "doing something" (otherwise, why is it there?), but I don't recall it ever having a fixing there. Having said that, I have installed and remove mudguards using the various bolt-holes and it is possible (.....) that in doing this, I've removed a bolt that belongs in one of the holes in the drop-outs.
From the first two photos of my bike, the groove in the OEM doesn't look to be in much of a different position to the one in the Shand video screen-grab (third photo). Also, the notch in the OEM is directly behind the top bolt-hole in the drop out (see last photo, taken from the reverse side, looking through the wheel). So, if everything I've said is correct in terms of position, and what you've said is correct in terms of securing the OEM in place, do I just need to screw in a bolt that is long enough to prevent the OEM rotating? (having said that, it feels very secure as it is; if it makes any difference, my rear wheel is attached via thru-axle).
Thanks for persisting; I need to get this done right.
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(Sorry about the rubbish photos; reducing the file size doesn't reduce the image size in the post, but does seem to mess up the resolution - and I can't reduce any smaller using my very basic photo software)
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I have not looked at any of your photos. I am just making generic responses.
My cables, I have about a half of a gear shift position of looseness. Thus, if I am in gear 9, my shifter can easily move from position 8.5 to 9.5 without doing anything. It seems to work just right for me, so I keep it that way.
Years ago when I first bought my Rohloff I had them tighter, but would occasionally not have it shift right, loosening them to the point where I am not has fixed that.
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I have not looked at any of your photos. I am just making generic responses.
My cables, I have about a half of a gear shift position of looseness. Thus, if I am in gear 9, my shifter can easily move from position 8.5 to 9.5 without doing anything. It seems to work just right for me, so I keep it that way.
Years ago when I first bought my Rohloff I had them tighter, but would occasionally not have it shift right, loosening them to the point where I am not has fixed that.
Thanks, Mick, it's basic personal experiences like this that help to reassure me whether mine is correct. Since I adjusted the barrel adjusters to give more play at the cable box end, the loosey-gooseyness of the twist shifter has improved (not so loose) - which seems counterintuitive, but that's what it is.
I've come to the conclusion that the issue I was having with only 13 gears and with loosey-goosey twist shifter is primarily one of adjusting cable tightness, plus making sure the twist shifter is in position 14 (or 1) and the gears are also in gear 14 (or 1) when I replace the cable box (EX box). Thanks again.
Just need to check the OEM issue now! I've sent photos to the person who made my bike to ask him about the OEM, also, and will post here with what he says.
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I agree with what you are saying - intuitively, the U-shaped notch at the top of the OEM plate looks like it should be "doing something" (otherwise, why is it there?), but I don't recall it ever having a fixing there. Having said that, I have installed and remove mudguards using the various bolt-holes and it is possible (.....) that in doing this, I've removed a bolt that belongs in one of the holes in the drop-outs.
I'm glad you've contacted Shand, their photo clearly shows the OEM plate captured by a bolt, that is the purpose of the plate, you can wreck a hub or frame running without. The type of axle makes no difference. You can buy a bolt specifically for it, though it isn't uncommon for it to share a fitting with a rack and/or guards. I can't imagine Shand would have supplied a bike without.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/rohloff-support-bolt-for-axle-plate-oem2-8560/
Photos - This forum is pretty poor for showing photos, to make them clear, you need to reduce the pixel size rather than the file size, otherwise when we click the thumbnail we get a huge sized, poor quality image, compare the Shand photo with your own.
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I agree with what you are saying - intuitively, the U-shaped notch at the top of the OEM plate looks like it should be "doing something" (otherwise, why is it there?), but I don't recall it ever having a fixing there. Having said that, I have installed and remove mudguards using the various bolt-holes and it is possible (.....) that in doing this, I've removed a bolt that belongs in one of the holes in the drop-outs.
I'm glad you've contacted Shand, their photo clearly shows the OEM plate captured by a bolt, that is the purpose of the plate, you can wreck a hub or frame running without. You can buy a bolt specifically for it, though it isn't uncommon for it to share a fitting with a rack and/or guards. I can't imagine Shand would have supplied a bike without.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/rohloff-support-bolt-for-axle-plate-oem2-8560/
Photos - This forum is pretty poor for showing photos, to make them clear, you need to reduce the pixel size rather than the file size, otherwise when we click the thumbnail we get a huge sized, poor quality image, compare the Shand photo with your own.
Thanks - and for the advice on resizing photos. I rarely use online forums these days and even more rarely do I upload photos.
Just to clarify , it wasn't Shand who built the bike. I contacted the frame builder who built the bike (I won't include the name as I wouldn't want anyone to think he messed up, because he definitely didn't; he's very experienced with Rohloff builds). He's confirmed that there would have been a fancy-looking washer/nut that either came loose (unlikely) or I stupidly removed when removing the mudguards. I haven't been able to find the original in my magnetic tray of nuts and bolts, but he's said in the meantime, any appropriately-sized nut and bolt will do the job. So, the OEM axle plate is definitely in the right place (had to move it a mm to get the nut in), and it looks like I have 14 gears - haven't test-ridden it yet as it's chucking down, but hopefully that's me sorted.
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I agree with what you are saying - intuitively, the U-shaped notch at the top of the OEM plate looks like it should be "doing something" (otherwise, why is it there?), but I don't recall it ever having a fixing there. Having said that, I have installed and remove mudguards using the various bolt-holes and it is possible (.....) that in doing this, I've removed a bolt that belongs in one of the holes in the drop-outs.
I'm glad you've contacted Shand, their photo clearly shows the OEM plate captured by a bolt, that is the purpose of the plate, you can wreck a hub or frame running without. The type of axle makes no difference. You can buy a bolt specifically for it, though it isn't uncommon for it to share a fitting with a rack and/or guards. I can't imagine Shand would have supplied a bike without.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/rohloff-support-bolt-for-axle-plate-oem2-8560/
Photos - This forum is pretty poor for showing photos, to make them clear, you need to reduce the pixel size rather than the file size, otherwise when we click the thumbnail we get a huge sized, poor quality image, compare the Shand photo with your own.
And HUGE thanks for spotting the incorrect OEM axle plate position in my cr@p photo!
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I finally looked at your photos.
Your photos clearly show a part on the cable adjuster not fitted quite right.
The cylindrical part that the threaded adjuster is threaded into, both of those should be horizontal and inset part way into the EX box. The lower one is correct, the upper one is not.
This photo shows it correct.
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Just an update to tie everything together. I'll bullet point it, to make it easier to follow:
(1) Initial issue was only getting 13 gears, as per title. Bottom line is that in the end, this was a cable management issue, tied in with the fact I had the OEM axle plate incorrectly positioned. However, from what I learned over the course of these messages, I'd recommend the first port of call for anyone experiencing the same problem would be to remove the EX box, and use an 8 mm spanner on the nut that's normally inside the EX box to check that they can get 14 gears (13 clicks). Also, check at the same time that the twist shifter moves freely from 1 to 14. If the answer is "Yes" to both of these, use the 8 mm spanner to rotate the nut fully anti-clockwise into 14th gear. Rotate the twist shifter to 14th gear also, and then replace the EX box. (Of course you could do the opposite - rotate the nut fully clockwise and put the twist shifter in 1st gear). Especially if the EX box has been removed at some point recently, this to me is the obvious first thing to try.
(2) Thanks to eagle-eyed PH, I realised my axle plate was (a) in the wrong position, and (b) not secured by a nut running through the modular drop-out, to sit within the U-shaped notch. This was also causing my upper cable to be incorrectly positioned, jammed up against the chainstay. I think for most people, this won't be the issue, but always worth checking. I've explained how (I think) this happened below, with a "note to self and others".
(3) I discovered (again) that searching for solutions to these types of problems can be quite difficult, especially because not all Rohloff hubs are installed the same, depending on frame type, etc. In fact I have only found one photo on the whole of the interWeb that has a similar set-up to mine - the Shand YT video demonstrating how to remove a Rohloff-equipped wheel (albeit their wheel is QR and mine is thru-axle). Of course, I'm sure the answer is somewhere in the Rohloff manual, but it's one of those Catch 22 situations where if you don't know what you are looking for, you won't find it, even if it's there somewhere ...
Note to self and others: If you have a new bike that is equipped in a way you are not familiar with, take detailed photos of anything and everything. That way, if you ever take it apart, or wonder if something has become out of position or out of adjustment, or may be missing something, you can look at the photo. I *think* my axle plate issue arose when I removed the mudguards I had fitted. One of the bolts that secures the rear mudguard runs through the mudguard eyelet, through the modular drop-out, and out the other side, to - you guessed it - the U-shaped notch in the axle plate. I remember removing the mudguard, screwing all the bolts back into the frame/dropouts and then trying to re-install the wheel, but I couldn't get the EX box into position. I realised that it was because the torque arm couldn't rotate far enough anti-clockwise - the bolt described above was sticking out too far, preventing the axle plate from rotating any further - so I removed the bolt thinking it was long in order to go through the mudguard eyelet. What I didn't realise was that the axle plate must have moved (clockwise) while I had the wheel off, that I should have removed the bolt far enough to rotate the axle plate into its correct position, and re-installed the bolt. Lesson learned!
Thanks for all the replies, you really helped.
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Post-script: Here's a photo of Shand's Bahookie Rohloff set-up, that shows very clearly the position of the axle plate, and the special nut that *should be* holding it in place. It's even clearer than the video screen grab I posted previously.
Having seen that now, I know for sure that I never removed anything resembling that, as it's so unique I would have remembered it - plus, it LOOKS like it's doing a very specific job. Curiouser and curiouser .... I wonder if it came unstuck when I was hurtling down the lumpy-bumpy slopes of the Trans Cambrian Way ...
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Post-script: Here's a photo of Shand's Bahookie Rohloff set-up, that shows very clearly the position of the axle plate, and the special nut that *should be* holding it in place. It's even clearer than the video screen grab I posted previously.
The special nut is Rohloff part 8552 https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/rohloff-oem2-adapter-for-m5-fender-luggage-rack-bolt-8552/. I know it well having fitted a Rohloff hub onto a derailleur frame using the OEM axleplate and that nut for torque management http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14396.msg108175#msg108175.
If your nut has disappeared and you aren't getting any small rotation of the hub under different loading conditions (it should twist one way in gears below 11 and the other way in gears above 11) then this shows that friction can hold the hub in place under normal usage and Rohloff's design is for the worst case https://www.rohloff.de/en/service/handbook/speedhub/assembly/torque-anchoring.
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Post-script: Here's a photo of Shand's Bahookie Rohloff set-up, that shows very clearly the position of the axle plate, and the special nut that *should be* holding it in place. It's even clearer than the video screen grab I posted previously.
The special nut is Rohloff part 8552 https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/rohloff-oem2-adapter-for-m5-fender-luggage-rack-bolt-8552/. I know it well having fitted a Rohloff hub onto a derailleur frame using the OEM axleplate and that nut for torque management http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14396.msg108175#msg108175.
If your nut has disappeared and you aren't getting any small rotation of the hub under different loading conditions (it should twist one way in gears below 11 and the other way in gears above 11) then this shows that friction can hold the hub in place under normal usage and Rohloff's design is for the worst case https://www.rohloff.de/en/service/handbook/speedhub/assembly/torque-anchoring.
Thank you. I ordered that part earlier today, as well as part 8560, which supposedly will do the same job. I figured I can install one and keep the other as back-up. As you indicated, all I can think is that when my wheel is installed (thru-axle), it's held tight enough that the axle plate won't move. But at least installing the correct nut/bolt will make 100% sure it's in the right position - which it wasn't before - and is a fail-safe to prevent it moving. Think I might have dodged a bullet there. I'd love to know how long I've been riding without the correct nut/bolt in place. I'm guessing it was there during my LEJOG ride, as I installed mudguards installed for that. Since I removed the mudguards (and possibly also the bolt), I've only ridden the Dirty Reiver and a couple of training rides.
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Glad it's sorted, your framebuilder was right that any bolt/screw/nut would hold it, but you might as well have the right thing.
all I can think is that when my wheel is installed (thru-axle), it's held tight enough that the axle plate won't move.
I think you're right, though I'm less sure the axle type makes any difference (Is it really a thru axle hub? Or a hub to fit thru axle frames?) my threaded hub probably clamps it as well as any. How long that friction would have held it is anyone's guess, maybe for another mile, maybe for another thousand, it won't be a design feature, because it's dependent on how much contact there is with the dropout. When it did go, it would have been interesting (Maybe not for you!) all the energy of a rotating wheel held by the cables. That might have been fine, or it might have been a big bang!
Anyway, sorted, that's the only important bit.
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It is my understanding that Rohloff is trying to make hubs that can fit in a through axle frame. The shifting mechanism is within the axle of the hub, so it is not really through axle. But, I could be wrong, maybe you have a new design for the hub?
I think a steep uphill and your hub would have started rotating in the frame. But it would stop rotating when either the EX Box jammed into the chainstay or the gear cables prevented it from rotating further, I am not sure which way it would have rotated. The torque is strong enough to have cracked frames that were not built for the stresses of disc brakes.
If you have any removable thread locker (Locktite is a common brand), you may consider removing the nut, adding a drop to the threads, and re-installing. Removable is usually blue. You do not want it to fall off.
I suggest thread locker on all rack bolts, shoe cleat bolts, fender bolts, brake bolts, and I might think of some other things later. (Not water bottle cage bolts, seatpost bolt, stem bolts, on those I use grease.) But a lot of bike shops do not even have a bottle of thread locker anywhere in the shop, so they are unlikely to tell you what I did.
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I would add that if the bolt hole is M6 then the head of a socket head bolt fits the groove in the OEM axleplate as shown on the attached photo.
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It is my understanding that Rohloff is trying to make hubs that can fit in a through axle frame. The shifting mechanism is within the axle of the hub, so it is not really through axle. But, I could be wrong, maybe you have a new design for the hub?
I think a steep uphill and your hub would have started rotating in the frame. But it would stop rotating when either the EX Box jammed into the chainstay or the gear cables prevented it from rotating further, I am not sure which way it would have rotated. The torque is strong enough to have cracked frames that were not built for the stresses of disc brakes.
If you have any removable thread locker (Locktite is a common brand), you may consider removing the nut, adding a drop to the threads, and re-installing. Removable is usually blue. You do not want it to fall off.
I suggest thread locker on all rack bolts, shoe cleat bolts, fender bolts, brake bolts, and I might think of some other things later. (Not water bottle cage bolts, seatpost bolt, stem bolts, on those I use grease.) But a lot of bike shops do not even have a bottle of thread locker anywhere in the shop, so they are unlikely to tell you what I did.
I think you are right and that although I have a through-bolt, the "through axle" is actually part of the Paragon modular dropout and not the bicycle frame itself.
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I would add that if the bolt hole is M6 then the head of a socket head bolt fits the groove in the OEM axleplate as shown on the attached photo.
Pretty sure mine's an M5 (not close to the bike at the moment).