Chain life

[léo woodland]

Hi

Forgive me is this has come up before: I've looked but not found anything.

The question is: how many kilometres do you get from a chain before a measuring widget shows it's stretched (I put it that way because there'll always be those who've been round the world five times on the same chain).

This last time, the chain measured as stretched in 5 000km - one oil change, therefore. The first chain lasted longer but not "a lifetime" that the most optimistic think ought to be possible.

So, allowing that chains can be of different quality and that riding conditions come into it, how long do you think is reasonable?

happy days

léo

[Andybg]

Hi Leo

There has been a lot of discussion elsewhere on the forum pertaining to chainlife and I am sure that someone will be along in a bit to point you in the right direction. The answer seems to vary a lot dependant on rider, riding style and conditions the bike is ridden in. 5000km seems a fair life for a chain and between the chain, chainwheel and rear cog it is by far the cheapest component in the drivetrain and definelty the one you want to sacrifice in favour of protecting the other two. There is quite a bit of forum investigation going into the use of herbe chaingliders with the desire being that the chain can last the 5000km between Rohloff Oil changes without any cleaning or further oiling other than what the chain originaly came with. It is definetly a consensus that the more modern 9 speed chains (that the Rohloff uses) has a much shorter lifespan than the older 6 speed chains.

Hope this helps

Andy

[Andybg]

Here is the link to the chainglider experiment:

http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=6813.0

Andy

[Andre Jute]

Seems to me that with a chain life of 5000km you've done well, Léo. There are many here who do better but perhaps they also spend more time cleaning chains, are hummingbird spinners who never change down out of top gear, or know the right magic incantation. But I've never actually seen 5000km on a chain, though I've come within 4%.

Andre Jute

[Danneaux]

Hi, Léo!

As I recall, our record-holder for chain life on a Rohloff drivetrain was Stuart (Stutho) with >12,000 miles to his credit on an RST. I would be delighted to get 12,000 kilometers/7456mi out of a chain! His "trick" is simply to let the chain to wear-into the chainring and sprocket, then reverse both gears and start anew with a fresh chain. As I recall, he used a Thorn aluminum chainring. Having costed-out the figures, he found he was well ahead by letting the chain stay in place and wear-into/wear-out the 'ring and sprocket compared to replacing numerous chains along the way. This is surely an interesting thought, one that worked well for Stuart and others who went against the prevailing tide of (derailleur drivetrain) practice and one I intend to try myself, albeit with a stainless-steel Surly chainring.

Stuart posted a progress report here at 8,000mi:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1632.msg7269#msg7269
...and a followup here:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=873.msg11407#msg11407

Davefife had similarly good luck (he runs his own repair shop, so likely was very good about keeping up with lubrication and cleanliness as well):
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=873.msg9385#msg9385

Though it initially focused on reversing sprockets, this whole thread is interesting and soon turns to mention of chain life and overall Rohloff drivetrain component life: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=873.0

Another good thread on the topic of chain life is here (and the 16,000-mile mark for Stuart's chain!):
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=2239.0
...and... http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1345.0
...andan update from Stuart in kilometers here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1674.msg7626#msg7626

Whether mi or km, this is remarkable chainlife, and something I hope to approach. There's a lot of factors involved, however. Andre was spot-on in mentioning the ratios ridden and pedaling cadence; both would result in different revolutions per unit of road measurement. and of course, there is pedaling style as well, spinners versus mashers.

From all I can see, housing the chain away from weather and road debris in a Hebie Chainglider can only help a chain last longer before replacement.

One huge factor that has changed over time, I think, is the use of 9-speed chains instead of the 8-speed models that were more commonly used on earlier Rohloffs. On the other hand -- opposite what one might suppose -- some chainwear and elongation tests are saying Shimano's 10- and 11-speed chains have much longer service lives than 9-speed chains in derailleur use. It would surely be interesting to see if the same held true when such chains were used on a Rohloff, though I'm not sure they would be compatible with the Rohloff's sprocket width. See: http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/02/19/bikerumor-shimano-chainwear-challenge-the-results/

Best,

Dan.

[andrewheard]

I got 22,000km on a Rohloff 8sp chain with a TA 48T chainring & 16T Rohloff sprocket a few years back. I use the Rohloff chain wear tool to measure & decide when to replace. It still wasn't in bad condition even when I replaced it. I just cleaned etc. every 400km or so, nothing fancy. All components started out new. Since then it's been a combination of various states of wear so I haven't had the opportunity to beat the record. I have a Thorn 48T chainring waiting to be installed sometime, and was thinking of trying a KMC X1 single speed chain as a test.

[léo woodland]

Thanks, everyone, for your advice. It's reassuring if not encouraging that a chain lasts nowhere as long as I thought. Mais, c'est la vie!

Thanks again.

happy days

léo

[Matt2matt2002]

I got 22,000km on a Rohloff 8sp chain with a TA 48T chainring & 16T Rohloff sprocket a few years back. I use the Rohloff chain wear tool to measure & decide when to replace. It still wasn't in bad condition even when I replaced it. I just cleaned etc. every 400km or so, nothing fancy. All components started out new. Since then it's been a combination of various states of wear so I haven't had the opportunity to beat the record. I have a Thorn 48T chainring waiting to be installed sometime, and was thinking of trying a KMC X1 single speed chain as a test.

I'm thinking of buying that kind of chain, KMC x1. May I ask your reasons for trying it out? Have you heard good reports?
Thanks
Matt

[andrewheard]

I'm thinking of buying that kind of chain, KMC x1. May I ask your reasons for trying it out? Have you heard good reports?
Thanks
Matt

My partners new Thorn Raven ST420 has one. KMC say it is tuned to Rohloff and single speed setups, so seemed like it was worth a try. I haven't seen any reviews sorry. It's not a cheap chain, but if it last longer then it means the sprocket & chainring lasts longer too.

[Andre Jute]

I'm keenly interested in how long the KMC X1 will last in the hands of known cyclists. -- Aj

[il padrone]

Having costed-out the figures, he found he was well ahead by letting the chain stay in place and wear-into/wear-out the 'ring and sprocket compared to replacing numerous chains along the way.

This surprises me a tad. Sprockets and chainrings are not all that cheap, while I have been using the KMC X8 chain with good results. I bought three of them at $A11 each from bike24 and this is dirt cheap. At this price I'd regard it as better policy to run your chains to less than ).5% stretch then swap them out and keep your chainring(s) in tip-top condition.

[Andre Jute]

This surprises me a tad. Sprockets and chainrings are not all that cheap, while I have been using the KMC X8 chain with good results. I bought three of them at $A11 each from bike24 and this is dirt cheap. At this price I'd regard it as better policy to run your chains to less than ).5% stretch then swap them out and keep your chainring(s) in tip-top condition.

On the economics, that's my take too. Where I live the landed price of a Rohloff sprocket is 3.5x a KMC X8 bought in bulk, and a Surly stainless chainring lands for 4x a KMC X8 bought in bulk. The logic is obvious: if you have to choose a part to sacrifice, it has to be the chain.

However, from what I can see, from far fewer miles than an expert like Stuart makes a chain last, and under far more favourable conditions than a commuter like Stuart meets, the Rohloff sprocket and the Surly chain ring are extraordinarily longlasting components. I'm not all certain that, even at commuting distances, you will recover extra care in less wear, to the extent of saving even a whole sprocket, in less than several years. As I pointed out within the last fortnight or so, probably in this thread, a Chainglider could start showing savings at under 10K, that is, possibly within a year for the high-milers (1). I just don't see that kind of saving arising from chain care -- says the guy who doubled his chain life when he started using chain guards, and then doubled it again by constant refinement of components and methods.

I'm very keen to make my chain go just another 9%, about 400km, to match the Rohloff oil change interval. But if I can't, I'll service the gearbox at the chain change intervals. After all, it will only add a service kit, landed cost about 30 euro if bought singly, and down to 20 if bought in threes, every eleven oil changes. The actual cost is under 2 euro per 5k. We're getting into stuff that is hardly worth calculating. Indeed, an outsider reading this may wonder at the quality and targeting of our obsession. (Q: What sort of a nutter spends hours working out how to save two bucks a year or twice a year max? A: Up yours. I'm just stubborn.)

Andre Jute