Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: jags on August 03, 2013, 05:58:22 pm
-
For some strange reason i feel my set up on the bike has changed no idea why but i feel my saddle is way to low :o so i'm just wondering could this be the cause on my foot pain which only started in the last few weeks. now i checked the height and its spot on with with the raleigh.
anyone know of a good video link on utube i can check out.
jags.
-
Hi jags!
If it is the Sherpa that doesn't feel right, perhaps the Brooks saddle has "settled-in" a bit (your sit-bones have embossed the saddle a little more) and you really *are* sitting a smidge lower despite the measurement across the top being the same.
I find I have to raise my Brooks saddles incrementally over time to make up for their breaking-in to me. It doesn't take much to feel "off" -- just a few mm will do it.
Hope this helps.
Best,
Dan.
-
cheers Dan yeah you could be right the fizik is a lot firmer think I'll raise it up a couple inches ;D ;D
-
My Flyer was feeling like that as though it was breaking in too much.
I was afeared of tensioning it too much so I did a bit of tensioning and then laced it with an easily adjustable lace.
The lace has made the biggest improvement, it is stopping the saddle sagging but lets me adjust it to have a bit of give.
I have not raised the saddle.
-
a lot of work me thinks lacing up a saddle ::)
-
<nods> The lacing can be a really good solution, Julian, just as you've found. Has the added benefit (compared to the tensioning belt) of avoiding the "peaky" ridge lengthwise down the middle when all one wants is to firm-up the feel a bit.
Harder to do on saddles with no skirt holes, but there's always leather punches. I've yet to do mine, but those I've modified for others were met with happy acceptance. Instead of tied laces, I used lightweight flat-woven tubular nylon webbing (looks like shoelaces) and a small plunger-type springless cordlock stored between the rails. The user just drew up the laces and drove the plunger home. If they got it too tight, they just pulled out the plunger, sat on the saddle till the lacing slackened, and had another go. I came up with the idea after the knots in other laces either bound or came loose. Seemed to work okay for long-term adjustability, but in practice one doesn't draw up the laces very often (years, if not decades between).
All the best,
Dan.
-
Dan, I can't visualize that cordlock you mentioned, do you have a link to that?
BTW, when I did my Brooks, I used a drill with a small bit. Punch was too difficult!
Thanks for the reference for the cord.
Regards,
Holly
-
Julian did you take the saddle off when you laced it how exactly does this help,does it stop the saddle from the hammock effect or what I'm baffled.i think I'll try and tension the saddle nut and maybe raising the saddle a centermiter.
-
http://www.rei.com/product/848877/gear-aid-ellipse-toggle-cord-locks (http://www.rei.com/product/848877/gear-aid-ellipse-toggle-cord-locks)
Here is a cord lock with springs that would probably do the job. But I bet Dan knows why the springless one will work better!
-
(http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Shelters/Tents/REI Cirque ASL 2 Tent/Test Report by Andrew Mytys/Cirque_CordLock.jpg)
From an REI tent review:
The cord-lock mechanism is a springless model that has a larger working surface to press against than the typical "barrel" design. I'm hoping that this choice of hardware by REI will prove easier to use in the wintertime, particularly when I'm wearing gloves.
If I ever needed to lace a saddle I really think I'd just use leather laces and tie them off.
-
Dan, I can't visualize that cordlock you mentioned, do you have a link to that?
Hi Holly!But I bet Dan knows why the springless one will work better!
Hi Jim!
I love outdoor fabrics and hardware and making things with them. My usual supplier of outdoor hardware and fabrics is The Rain Shed in Corvallis, OR (in process of moving to Albany, OR as I write this; I missed them when I dropped by the store last week and saw the moving notice): http://www.therainshed.com/
I don't see the plunger type cord lock I last used to secure a laced saddle...and I gave that one away, so I can't provide a photo. Basically, it had no spring and used a plunger with a V-shaped end to trap a flat cord against a narrowing boxed wall. Very simple and just the ticket for flat cords (a real thing, not an oxymoron).
In their absence, these cordlocks are functionally identical:
http://usaknifemaker.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/w/h/wheel-cord-ends-650px.jpg
http://www.accomplishquilting.com/catalog/images/side%20clamp%20cord%20lock.jpg
These people have good outdoor hardware, too: http://www.plastic-buckle.com/all-cord-locks.aspx
The beauty of these springless cord locks is they work on the wedge principle: Under increasing stress, they hold more tightly, unlike the spring types, which can slip (sometimes a Very Good Quality in other applications). I found the pressure of sitting on the saddle and then hitting a bump could exert more force on the cord than a spring-loaded cord lock could hold, so I went with the friction type. Knots didn't work so well for me 'cos they either became untyable in the long-term or untied themselves in the short-term. Springless cord locks proved more secure, quicker to adjust, and more convenient in my use, but knots are traditional and seem to work well for others.
The tubular flat webbing I used to lace the saddle skirts is Needloft Craft Cord in a 10yd/9.2m hank. It is 0.125in/~3.5mm wide. I got mine at the JoAnn Fabrics chain here in the US, but I see they now only carry Needloft yarn, which won't do. Amazon has it (Amazon has everything, just like eBay) on 20yd cards: http://www.amazon.com/Needloft-Craft-Cord-Cards-Solid/dp/B004RIXNDM The tubular webbing draws flat and is nylon, so the ends can be cut with a hot knife or melted over a match flame and won't fray, stretches little if any and won't rot, unlike rawhide or cotton cording and lacing. The tubular construction is just soft and pliable enough to be kind to the punched leather skirting of the Brooks saddle and it comes in a variety of colors....when you laced it how exactly does this help
Jags, I realize you asked this of Julian, but I'll give it a go: I found lacing the sides kept them from bowing out under sitting pressure. As a result -- yes! -- the saddle forms less of a sway-backed hammock in the middle and feels more akin to a new saddle than broken-in.
The advantage of lacing over tightening the tension bolt is the bolt can cause a ridge to form lengthwise along the saddle while doing little or nothing to raise the portions where your sit-bones go or tighten the hammock. That ridge can become uncomfortable in itself and is why some people like Jobst Brandt have referred to Brooks as um, "hatchets" for one's posterior. I prefer a newer, dome-shape to my brooks saddles, as the long ridge has caused some abrasions in tender areas that required me to consult a proctologist. Brooks saddles don't seem to be as rigid these days as in the past (catering to a wider buyer base?) and break-in quickly -- often too soon for my taste, so I sell 'em on about the time most people think they're just starting to break-in.
The lacing draws the sides in and stiffens the whole structure in my experience. The trick to punching the holes is to avoid getting them too low on the skirt; that can cause old leather to crack out between the holes. It really pays to look at Brooks' website and copy their hole locations if you decide to do this, at least on the first go-'round. Done with care, the results look every bit as nice and professional as Brooks' OEM efforts. I prefer a leather punch for clean-edged holes, but others have used drills with reasonable success and appearance.
Hope this helps.
Best,
Dan. (...who is back on his saddle again with largely recovered knees after the Great SPD Cleat-Release Experiments)
-
OH i think i'll leave things alone, the saddle looks perfect to me as new so i'll just raise it up some.
i seen a video of the great cyclist eddie mercks in his early days, he would always carry a spanner in his jersey pocket to adjust his saddle height until he got it perfect.he would adjust it severl times on a ride so theres hope for me yet. ::)
-
I think Dan has pretty much answered for me!
I did all this with the saddle on the bike and have not had to alter the height at all.
I punched the holes with a hand operated leather punch for neatness, very easy, tried to get them in similar positions to the Brooks lacing.
I used a flat ribbon like cord, red for contrast, with a spring loaded cordlock taken off a spare peg bag.
First try was far too tight, no give in the saddle, so loosened off until sitting on it felt right.
I had taken up some tension with the nose bolt, but was wary as I had previously 'ridged' a saddle doing this and had ended up tossing that one.
I have not had problems yet with a spring loaded cordlock, but I will watch it and go for a springless one if I need it.
It really is a good solution if you have a modern Brooks and it is starting to feel a bit saggy.
-
i raised the saddle up quarter inch i'll test it out tomorrow ;)
-
Okay, jags; looking forward to hearing how you fare.
All the best,
Dan.
-
Hi All,
On my Tom (Nomad MK2) the saddle keep going lower when I have been riding hard Mountain Biking. So I have changed from the STD size seatpost (27.2mm plus shim) to a 30.0mm Thomsom ELITE: SETBACK.
This has stopped my seatpost from dropping! and I tested it fully on Sunday with some very hard Mountain Bike with some hard hitting grade 3 and 4 MTB Singletracks :o
Also you can try using a 30.0mm to 27.2mm shim (Cane Creek make one) it's a far better fit then the STD Thorn one...
Pete 8)
-
I had taken up some tension with the nose bolt, but was wary as I had previously 'ridged' a saddle doing this and had ended up tossing that one
Hi Julian,
You have me intrigued. Why can't you just release the tension if you've overcooked it and "ridged" the saddle?
I have 3 Brooks B17 Narrow saddles and 2 are old enough that I have tensioned them just a tiny bit over the years. (And I do mean just a tiny bit)
I have to say lacing makes sense.
Cheers,
pj
-
well got a 45 mile spin this morning pain free well near enough.
i raised the saddle by quarter inch and it felt a lot better to be honest i could go a few more mm but for now i'll leave it at that.
-
You have me intrigued. Why can't you just release the tension if you've overcooked it and "ridged" the saddle?
Peter,
This was an old well worn in saddle which very quickly went very saggy on a wet days ride from Longtown to Silloth.
It was far too hammocky for my comfort so I tried tensioning it and it ended up quite uncomfortable with a ridge.
I could not find a point where it was comfortable again.
At that point I had not considered lacing it so it went in the bin as unusable.
Julian.
-
O' OK,
Sorry I missed that point, I have been using a brooks saddle for years! (from 1987) to 2013!
No more as the new brooks are just too soft (after a few rides) and I have a few brooks saddle's ???
not updating designs with the new pressure mapping research, scientifically testing and ergonomically design!
in 1987 a Brooks was a great saddle But are how out of date. I would use a Brooks again if they start making a flatter topped Saddle with harder leather.
So I have switch too a new saddle and bike fit and how climb hills in one to two gears higher with eases ??? and no more pain (so far......)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7359/9408020152_c146afab33_z.jpg)
Pete
-
Interesting point about later Brooks saddles being softer.
I bought one in 2005 for my Club Tour that took months including LEJOG to reach that level of comfort for which Brooks is famous.
I bought another one earlier this year (for another bike) which only took about 500 km's to break in and it's already showing more sag than the other one.
Are they breeding wimpier cattle with thinner hides now?
This could be of interest:
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/components/saddles/product/review-spa--nidd-saddle-13-47238
Cheers,
pj
-
"Are they breeding wimpier cattle with thinner hides now?"
That is indeed the justification for the organic leather on the select saddles!
And it's true that when you look at the skyved lower edge the texture of select leather is VERY different (coarser) compared to special and standard tops.
Personally I think of mine having two nice bum dents rather than a ridge in the middle ;D Time will tell if they get too deep....
Has anybody tried a Brooks Cambium yet? And am I wrong in thinking I read somewhere that the Spa saddles have some sort of fabric backing to the leather?
Ian
-
"Are they breeding wimpier cattle with thinner hides now?"
Hi well I think so! So Yes :D
That is indeed the justification for the organic leather on the select saddles!
And it's true that when you look at the skyved lower edge the texture of select leather is VERY different (coarser) compared to special and standard tops.
My Organic Leather Select Saddle start breaking in after only about 100km's and still to Soft for me :(
Personally I think of mine having two nice bum dents rather than a ridge in the middle ;D Time will tell if they get too deep....
A ridge in the middle of any saddle is very bad for blood flow too the _ _ _ _ _ _ parts and for good leg power over days of long mile's riding :(
A Saddle for a Man needs to be flat across the top (rear) and Cut away for Lady's
How if Brooks made a B15 SWALLOW with two rear springs like a FLYER SPECIAL and a Stronger Select Organic Leather topping well this just maybe the Best New Saddle made ??? Huh?
Pete
-
I wrap a short piece of electrical tape around my seatpost about 5mm above the frame. That way I can see if the seatpost is sliding down or not.
-
Snap i do that as well 8)