Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => General Technical => Topic started by: Paddy on April 05, 2009, 06:03:08 pm
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Have just returned from a spin round the New Forest to find that the chain stay (on the chain side) of my Thorn Nomad has a nasty looking crack.I bought the bike second hand last year and would be grateful to know if Thorn(ie SJS) give a lifetime guarantee on the frame
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i think that guarantee only applys to the orignal owner,
but i could be wrong,would it be a big deal getting a new chainstay put in.
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I've heard very, very few reports of cracked steel frames, other than occaisonally around a welding -is a picture a possibility? I think jags is right about the warranty but you should call SJS. Any idea what caused it?
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Many Thanks for you replies.I spoke to Robin At SJS who confirmed that the guarantee applies to the original owner,and suggested l buy a new frame.Before doing that can anyone recommend someone who would repair it? Initial thoughts are Bob Jackson in Leeds,but is there anyone nearer the Bournemouth area?
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paddy why would robin suggest you buy a new frame,does he reckon the frame would be knackered because of the crack.this dosen't sound to good to me,if that's the case,
anyway i reckon you need a bikebuilder to welde your stay and realighn the frame just in case.
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This dissapointed me and to be honest has put me off buying now from a manufacturer who claims a lifetime warranty
When any bicycle manufacturer offers a lifetime warranty for the frame then it should be that..a lifetime of the frame.
As we all know nothing else on the bike meets the warranty so when you buy one, and it's not a cheap bike,with a lifetime warranty you do not expect a check the small print momment
I would hope this is reviewed as it makes excellent business sense and a step up in customer service
Also I would advise companys who advertise a lifetime warranty be a bit more honest and remove the lifetime warranty in the advert and replace it with for the life of your ownership.. this to me would seem to be more honest
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Lifetime guarantees normally apply to the original owner and rightly so IMHO. I mean, where would it end?
I've bought a second-hand Thorn frameset (a Cyclosportif in 2006) and if it ever develops a fault I'd be a bit sad to see it go but would be content considering the dramatically reduced price that I paid and the good use I've had from it thus far.
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Thats my only contention Spinnerz is the wording used
can you imagine the impact on sales if you advertised it correctly
Clearly lifetime isn't lifetime, if advertised correctly it would say for the warranty is for the time of the ownership of the original buyer. Now put that on the main page instead of the small print and I would say the manufacturer is being honest
We all know that very few of us will buy a bike and keep it till we die so how can it be lifetime?
Same with many company's though which is disheartning. Spec savers for instant will charge you extra for an anti scratch coating..take your glasses back with a scratch on a lens after 3 months and they point out that it is a scratch reduction coating and this is mentioned in the small print
Maybe it's just me..but if a company advertises one then in big letters then publish the true meaning which is different somewhere in small print I never spend my hard earned again
There is no point in having a good customer service if all they say is "Ah well it broke and our proper guaranty is in the small print...I reccomend you spend more money with us" I just wouldn't
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guarantees are not worth the paper there written on ,i was a wee bit disappointed with sjs that they dident offer to fix the frame for the op.it would proberly would have taken one of there builders a nano second to do the job.
there is one thing for sure the op wont be buying a new thorn. pity.
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Lifetime guarantees normally apply to the original owner and rightly so IMHO. I mean, where would it end?
I think Spinnerz there would no need for " where would it end" if the description of warranty was in as bold a print and on the main page. The secret is..and again it's not just thorn..if you advertise a lifetime warranty on something the minute you start in small print then it stops being what you are declaring.
If advertising it honestly by saying the lifetime warranty only applies to it's first owner and as proudly and right next to the lifetime warranty claim then how does that sit with the current bikes sold by thorn as second hand..in particular e bay items 400046242403 & 350195412679? now none of those make mention as they are second hand the thorn lifetime warranty does not apply as the new buyer will not be the original owner
Personally my feeling is and it is just my feeling is if I find out that something appears to be different from the actual, then I never spend money there again. In regards to the frame the o/p mentioned I feel it would have been huge brownie points for sjs and the thorn brand if they have offered to repair it .... but thats just my opinion
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I think Spinnerz there would no need for " where would it end" if the description of warranty was in as bold a print and on the main page. The secret is..and again it's not just thorn..if you advertise a lifetime warranty on something the minute you start in small print then it stops being what you are declaring.
If advertising it honestly by saying the lifetime warranty only applies to it's first owner and as proudly and right next to the lifetime warranty claim then how does that sit with the current bikes sold by thorn as second hand..in particular e bay items 400046242403 & 350195412679? now none of those make mention as they are second hand the thorn lifetime warranty does not apply as the new buyer will not be the original owner
Personally my feeling is and it is just my feeling is if I find out that something appears to be different from the actual, then I never spend money there again. In regards to the frame the o/p mentioned I feel it would have been huge brownie points for sjs and the thorn brand if they have offered to repair it .... but thats just my opinion
The whole World knows that warraties only apply to FIRST owners! Get a grip.
John.
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Well I'm glad you know everyone in the world John and have confirmed with them that they know this
Thank you
I see comments on the thorn website like..
The eXp range are built to last 2 lifetimes;although we only guarantee them for one! ..... and many other comments reffering to why steel is better and the quality of the frame
lifted from thorns info blurbs http://www.sandsmachine.com/bp_sjs.htm We guarantee your satisfaction Talk to us, have us build you a "Thorn" and if you contact us within 1 week of delivery and tell us that you don't wish to keep it for any reason we will arrange to have it collected and refund you in full, providing that you have not damaged the machine*. (If due to unforeseen circumstances you are unable to ride the cycle during the first week, contact us and we are likely to extend the period). Lifetime Warranty on Frame and Forks ........... 12 months Warranty on Components
As you can see we really can "Guarantee Your Satisfaction"
* = UK only
Again this isn't a dig at thorn directly but a query as to why some firms quote a lifetime warranty then do not tell the buyer it is only as long as the original buyer has it..I've seen thorns being sold second hand where the original seller has included that the bike has a lifetime warranty on the frame..clearly they didn't know
Lifetime Warranty on the Frame means just that and it is easy to see why people would think that considering the wording.
but nowhere do I see anything referring to ..this frame is only guaranteed as long as you are the original purchaser... although I'm happy John if you can show it? so the rest of us can be aware and share your knowledge
That said I really do not want to comment any further on this matter..we have established that the thorn lifetime guarranty only applies to the original purchaser and so now many more will decide on thier purchase with the fullest of correct information..nothing more nothing less
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Am I missing something here? There is no smoke and mirrors or sleight of hand!
Someone has initially gained big-time by getting a Thorn second-hand but now isn't a happy bunny because it's broken.
Let's be clear on this. Thorn make their money on the sale to the original owner (let's call him/her Buyer A) and as part of their risk/reward strategy they offer a 100-day money back deal and a lifetime guarantee. On any subsequent transactions (e.g. Buyer A sells on to Buyer B) they make no profit and therefore should have no liability, simply because they get no reward. Indeed, you could argue that Buyer A is where Buyer B should go for redress! But, of course, it doesn't work like that and most normal people readily accept that.
Like I said, I've bought a Cyclosportif frameset second-hand for £400 when they were selling for £900. I've gained but accept that I could lose if a chainstay snaps on my next ride. That's my risk/reward and I'm comfortable with it.
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The o/p asked wether there was a lifetime warranty on a thorn frame
The answer came back that the lifetime warranty was not infact a lifetime warranty but actually a warranty that only applied to the original purchaser
As there appears to be no mention of this in any information visible it was discussed
The discussion was when is a lifetime warranty not a lifetime warranty
we now have the answer
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Most of us knew the answer by sentence 1 or 2!
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Quite a few did not know the lifetime warranty on the frame was not extended beyond the first owner
I personally felt to offer a lifetime warranty on the frame it should be just that..on the frame and not the owner
That said I would buy a thorn everyday of the week in preference to many others as it is an excellent touring bike but because of this thread I would now buy another a bit better informed
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I have to say I would much prefer a manufacture give a lifetime warranty based on the first owners lifetime as it is easy defined - when your dead your dead :-) I have personally had problems with a manufacture that offered a lifetime warranty based on the lifetime of the product (NOT a bike by the way). The problem is who is to say how long the product 'lives' for. In my case the product was about 12 years old and the manufacture said that this was longer that the 'average lifespan' of the product and therefore didn't qualify for warranty. Weedy words if you ask me
One other point, even products offered with a 'lifetime of the product warranty' often (if not always) have a original owner restriction
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I think my question over it stutho , and we were talking about thorns lifetime guaranty, that it doesn't seem to be that well disclosed.
The advertising makes it look like the frame has a lifetime warranty but if I was the original owner and had a thorn some 40 years later I would imagine I would not be the norm and judging by thorns when they come up for sale most sellers seem to be under the missunderstanding the bike frame is warrantied for life as it's quite often quoted in adds
difficult one really to word it correctly you may lose sales..I just hate quotes on the front pages all singing all dancing in bright lights...then the fullest accurate description is hidden away in the small print..just me
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I have a Cannondale st600 touring bike bought new in 1991, and last year the weld at the seatpost binder bolt developed a crack. I took it back to the dealer I bought it from to see if there was any chance of claiming under Cannondale's lifetime warranty, but as I was unable to produce my original receipt from 17 years ago they were unable to take it further. So hang on to your receipts!
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I had an experience with this a few years back. The first bike I bought when I started back into cycling since leaving school way too many years ago was a hybrid from a well known brand that shall remain nameless (except to say it was not Thorn). I slowly started riding more and more and became hooked. After ~ 22,000 km the aluminium frame cracked around the bottom bracket and I was devastated. As it happened I did have the original receipt, the frame had a lifetime warrantee so I took the broken frame back to the original shop. The shop was pessimistic about my chances of satisfaction, largely because bike styles had moved on in the 7 years since I bought my old steed. However we tried and I also commenced researching what other bikes were out there to see what replacement I could get.
After a several months and a number of phone calls, in various “tones”, to the manufacturer’s local rep, the original manufacturer eventually provided a replacement frame. However it was from the current model. Almost none of the parts of my old bike would fit. The old canti brakes wouldn’t fit so I would need V-brakes instead, threadless headsets had come in so the old forks wouldn’t fit and the list went on. I think I could keep the pedals. The local rep said that was the best that they would do and I was lucky to even get that since the bike was so old. We weren’t getting on real well at that stage.
I asked the shop how much it would cost to get a bike going for me using the new frame and as many of the old parts that would fit. The price came out as ~$1,000.
I wrote a letter to original manufacturer that included the following paraphrased line of argument.
“I had bought a bike with a lifetime warrantee on the frame and now the frame had cracked. They (the original manufacturer) had tired and failed to provide a replacement frame. Because of their failure to provide a replacement frame it was now going to cost me $1,000 to be in the same position I would be if they had provide a replacement frame. See attached quote. Please send me $1,000.”
For effect I also quoted relevant sections of the Trade Practices Act, our local legislation that covers companies selling to the public. It basically says that if you sell something to the public and make a claim about your product then you have to follow through.
I faxed the letter off one night and by 10am the next day had a phone call from their head office saying that they would give me a brand new current model bike as a replacement and asking nicely which of their local dealers would be the most convenient for me to pick up the new bike. They also said this incident would change their warrantee claims policy. A few days later I picked up the new bike.
In the mean time my research concluded that a Thorn Raven Tour was the bike for me and I was by that time a proud new owner of said Thorn bicycle. I ended up selling the replacement hybrid to a friend as I am a one bike man. My new Thorn has now done almost 25,000 km and still rides like new only quieter ;D
Peter
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I think pdamm that's another reason why I will buy something because I want it.. not because it has a lifetime warranty
you cannot guarranty the company will be in existance if you keep it for your lifetime, losing the reciept is another one many fall foul of
Also I have yet to walk into a company with a long warranty and walked straight back out with it 100% resolved as implied at the time of purchase
if the warranty only applies to the first owner it is a useles piece of paper you have at time of resale
Me personally and I will use thorn as an example, If I was looking for a NEW bike then I would buy it because it's the bike I want, will do what I expect of it and give me the confidence to use it, the "for the lifetime of my ownership warranty" would be an added bonus during my ownership but would not see me pay extra nor would it influence my purchase