Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: CycleTourer on February 20, 2022, 01:05:41 pm
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I’m trying to predict the total costs of ordering a Nomad frame from SJS to a EU country, and I know the local VAT plus import duty will be imposed on the order. The local VAT is easy to find out, but does anyone know what the current import duty is?
Also, anyone know approximately what percentage the courier usually imposes as its customs processing fee?
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I don’t know if it’s up-to-date but have you seen Thorn’s dealer list here
https://www.thorncycles.co.uk/thorn-dealer-list
which includes dealers in Netherlands and Greece. I’m wondering if it MIGHT be easier and cheaper to order through one of these dealerships.
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I’m in a hurry to get this frame. Thorn is finally getting new Nomad Mk3 stock in the coming weeks, but it could take months more before that stock is provided to any dealers based on the continent (if that ever happens). Anyway, I have already paid my deposit to SJS to reserve the frame from them.
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I think if you go the DHL website and enter all the details (size and weight) you will see a full quote including all tariffs and taxes. Surely SJS can you tell this as well?
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I'm pretty sure the standard duty on imported bike parts is 4%, though it's 14% for complete bikes. This is based on past experience from importing into the UK (When part of the EU) from countries outside the EU.
The import price that the duty is applied to includes the shipping. The VAT just applies to the goods. (I think I have that right)
The handling charge will be a set fee rather than a percentage, I've paid anywhere between £9 and £25.
I think that's your worst case scenario.
There is a lower rate, I think 2.5%, for some goods you are carrying yourself, someone told me this also applied to items posted, but I'm not sure they were right.
Importing into the UK there was also always a chance it would just get missed, despite having the correct customs declaration form clearly visible, you have to just treat such things as a bonus when they happen.
EDIT - Cross posted with Brush2805, I might go try that, see if I was right!
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I can’t find a DHL customs calculator that doesn’t require an account with them.
Thorn/SJS politely suggested that I find out the local import charges on my own – it’s understandable if they would rather not have to bother with these details out of their own control.
This article (https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/what-brexit-means-bicycles) about another UK seller of Taiwan-made frames suggests that the duty immediately post-Brexit was 4.7%, but that was the situation one year ago and changes may have occurred in the interim.
Perhaps someone who has recently ordered a frame and has first-hand experience, will comment on this thread eventually.
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I'm still pretty sure the rate is 4%, but if it's 4.7% that's a difference of a fiver on a £700 frameset.
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Also, anyone know approximately what percentage the courier usually imposes as its customs processing fee?
I buy art equipment and other stuff from the UK all the time, and none of the couriers chosen by my preferred vendors charge a percentage of value for the administration of importing a bike through customs. Instead they charge a flat fee parcel which could be as little as ten pounds sterling if a big mail-order house sends the parcel to about fifteen pounds for a smaller client. I'd be prepared to pay up to twice that much for an export by a private client (but that isn't the case here -- SJS is exporting the bike). A little shopping around, or a question directly to whoever handles shipping at SJS, will soon find you a good courier.
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A little shopping around, or a question directly to whoever handles shipping at SJS, will soon find you a good courier.
SJS has already chosen the courier for this order (though it is nameless on my invoice), and the price of the shipment is acceptable. I was only trying to determine what the customs-processing fee might be, since that will be a surprise when the parcel arrives – and this detail, too, is something that Thorn/SJS said I should find out on my own.
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SJS has already chosen the courier for this order (though it is nameless on my invoice), and the price of the shipment is acceptable. I was only trying to determine what the customs-processing fee might be, since that will be a surprise when the parcel arrives – and this detail, too, is something that Thorn/SJS said I should find out on my own.
I am saying this as a guess, I really have no clue. You have the invoice, were you charged the VAT prices or the excluding VAT prices, if you were charged the excluding VAT prices, expect to pay the amount of VAT in your country too.
When I bought my Nomad Mk II frame (I am in USA) I did some internet searching and learned that it would be 4 percent customs duty, but with the mail carrier brought it, it was 6 percent plus a small flat fee. My point is that whatever you estimate, expect it to be a surprise.
I was later surprised when I bought my Rohloff hub, shipped from Germany, I expected to have to pay duty on that shipment but did not.
Do any of the other sellers in UK that ship a lot of stuff to EU list any data on that on their website for customs duty? Examples would be Chainreactioncycles or Wiggle.
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Do any of the other sellers in UK that ship a lot of stuff to EU list any data on that on their website for customs duty? Examples would be Chainreactioncycles or Wiggle.
The rules between the UK and the EU are pretty much the same in either direction and also since 1st July harmonized between each when importing from the rest of the World.
Consignments under £135/E150 must have the VAT applied before export by the retailer and that retailer must be registered with the appropriate authority to do so.
Consignments over that limit, must have the VAT applied after import, payable by the consumer. (if your retailer hasn't removed it, that's between you and them, you're still going to be charged)
Large companies have found ways to get round this, perfectly legitimately, often by using an Import Agent. Basically the Export/Import takes place between businesses, which have different rules about where and when the VAT is paid, the goods are then shipped on after that's been dealt with. That may sound complicated but with high enough volumes it's easy to automate. I used to work in freight handling at East Midlands Airport, thousands of items every day change jurisdiction whilst on a conveyer belt between unloading and re-loading.
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SJS has already chosen the courier for this order (though it is nameless on my invoice), and the price of the shipment is acceptable. I was only trying to determine what the customs-processing fee might be, since that will be a surprise when the parcel arrives – and this detail, too, is something that Thorn/SJS said I should find out on my own.
if you work it out as:
Invoice
+ local VAT rate on the goods
+ 4% duty on the goods & carriage
+ £25 for handling
That's likely to be your worst case scenario, up to £10 less the most likely outcome, much less than that unlikely but a possibility. There should be no scenario where you're presented with a large unexpected invoice.
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if you work it out as:
Invoice
+ local VAT rate on the goods
+ 4% duty on the goods & carriage
+ £25 for handling
That's likely to be your worst case scenario, up to £10 less the most likely outcome, much less than that unlikely but a possibility. There should be no scenario where you're presented with a large unexpected invoice.
OK, fingers crossed. I’ll try to remember to report back here next month after receiving the shipment.
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if you work it out as:
Invoice
+ local VAT rate on the goods
+ 4% duty on the goods & carriage
+ £25 for handling
That's likely to be your worst case scenario, up to £10 less the most likely outcome, much less than that unlikely but a possibility. There should be no scenario where you're presented with a large unexpected invoice.
OK, fingers crossed. I’ll try to remember to report back here next month after receiving the shipment.
Yes good luck, hope the new bike is everything you hope, looking forward to the photos ;)
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Hi CycleTourer,
I'm pretty certain this is NOT the same in each EU country.
For Germany (where I live) the import tax happens to be the same rate as the local VAT. There can also be a paperwork handling fee levied by the courier on top of that.
Once in the EU, with taxes paid at point of entry, it goes back to free movement of goods and services in the zone without new taxes being levied.
My friends recently ordered some Austin parts from UK and these were sent via DHL who are the German Post parcel division. The UK vendor took off the 20% UK VAT when charging and DHL charged the local 19% VAT on delivery. The total VAT was less than EUR 6- and would have left the final price about the same after the transaction but the handling charge to process it was EUR 7.50. Other carriers (DPD, GLS, TNT, FedEX etc) are free to charge a less competitive rate if they handle the VAT processing. Same friend had to pay a EUR 40 handling fee on some 2nd hand parts that were not sent via DHL to Germany. In this case, the handling fee exceeded the cost of the shipment.
For larger platforms (Amazon/Ebay/Aliexpress etc) the VAT exchange on international transactions is often now built into their systems, so there is no processing fee when delivered. At least, that is my experience since Brexit.
I suggest you check the national customs and excise website of where you live to see what the local import tax level would be. The long and short of it, each EU member sets their own VAT and import tax rates you have to pay. So my answer is only true if you live in Germany. But France or Spain or Italy etc. will all have their own rates which may be different from the other countries.
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The long and short of it, each EU member sets their own VAT and import tax rates you have to pay.
Each EU member country sets its own VAT, but I am pretty sure that the import duty applied to things like Taiwan-manufactured steel bicycle frames is the same across the EU. Everything I have read about bicycle-frame imports suggests that, and in the article I linked above this import duty was 4.7% as of last March.
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The long and short of it, each EU member sets their own VAT and import tax rates you have to pay.
This is simply incorrect, have a think about it, how could the EU work if that were correct? Everything would enter where it was cheapest! That's the point of a trading block, standardisation. VAT varies, standard rate from 18 to 25%, but for online sales from July last year it's applicable at the consumers local rate rather than the retailers. Google IOSS if you'd like the full details.
My friends recently ordered some Austin parts from UK and these were sent via DHL who are the German Post parcel division. The UK vendor took off the 20% UK VAT when charging and DHL charged the local 19% VAT on delivery. The total VAT was less than EUR 6- and would have left the final price about the same after the transaction but the handling charge to process it was EUR 7.50. Other carriers (DPD, GLS, TNT, FedEX etc) are free to charge a less competitive rate if they handle the VAT processing. Same friend had to pay a EUR 40 handling fee on some 2nd hand parts that were not sent via DHL to Germany. In this case, the handling fee exceeded the cost of the shipment.
For larger platforms (Amazon/Ebay/Aliexpress etc) the VAT exchange on international transactions is often now built into their systems, so there is no processing fee when delivered. At least, that is my experience since Brexit.
I detailed the regulations upthread, member States can't vary them, consignment* under E150 the VAT has to be paid before Export, over that and it has to be paid after Import. If you've received goods over that value from outside the EU, then the supplier has set up a process where you're technically being supplied from within, also mentioned upthread.
If you friends have been billed for any additional cost on an order under E150, a mistake has been made and they should apply for a refund. There's been several stories in the UK press about such mistakes on goods sent from the UK to EU, so it is happening, but it shouldn't.
* That it's consignment value rather than the individual item values is important.
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I received the Nomad Mk3 frame sent to Poland, and the money I had to pay on my end was indeed local VAT + 4.5% duty on the Taiwan-made steel frame and fork. There was probably a handling fee in there from Parcelforce’s local counterpart (the Polish national post company) but it must have been tiny.
The only unpleasant surprise is that Parcelforce’s shipping is now considered an economy-class parcel, at least to Poland. It took a month for the box to even reach Poland, let alone go through customs. Pre-Brexit, even a full frameset would reach me in Eastern Europe in little more than a week.
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I received the Nomad Mk3 frame sent to Poland, and the money I had to pay on my end was indeed local VAT + 4.5% duty on the Taiwan-made steel frame and fork.
Glad it was as predicted, though that's a shocking delivery time :o