Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Wheels, Tyres and Brakes => Topic started by: freddered on July 03, 2007, 06:31:46 pm
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Has anyone bought the very expensive Avid Ultimate V-Brakes?
I am considering one for the front because it has a reversible Noodle and will allow better cable routing from my drop bars (Raven Tour).
My front brake needs all the help it can get (Dia Compe 287V levers, poor cable routing)
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I've got a pair on order from chain reaction £54 each. Silly money I know relative to deore or avid single digits which will probably do 90% of the job. However, I do like the simple lines, the reversability and the fact they get excellent reviews. I considered XTRs (a similar price to ultimates) but reviews are more mixed regarding the parallelogram design and noise. I also thought about magura hydraulics. In fact I nearly went for maguras as they are excellent at stopping but have found them hard to modulate when slowing down -they seem to be either on or off and I found I was locking the wheel.
I did draw the line at buying avid ultimate levers though, a mere £119 for a pair of levers, no thanks! Will let you know how I get on.
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Hi Freddered,
I have got Ultimates on my bike. Being able to reverse the noodle is VERY helpful, especially on the rear brake. Without a doubt they are a very well designed and manufactured to a high standard.
Are they worth £60?
When I built up my bike I decided on a "no holds bared" approach to the breaking system. I fitted ceramic rims, Ultimates and Koolstop salmons. A few months back I narrowly avoided a crash that I am SURE I would of had on any of my other bikes. (It was a very close call.) By avoiding that one crash I reckon that they have paid for themselves.
The only other brake I considered fitting to my bike was the Arch Rivals. They are a lot cheaper than the XTC's and get better reviews however parallelogram designs have more to go wrong and I like to keep it simple.
I have had one bad experience with the Ultimates. There is a pin and circlip that is used to attach the noodle hanger. Somehow I lost the circlip - I suspect after transporting the bike on a car carrier. I spotted the fault mid ride and by the grace of God I didn't loss the pin. (No pin = NO front braking.) Anyway I now have a bag of stainless circlips in spares box if you ever need one!
One final point I have attached mine to the frame with Security Torx bolts - they are too expensive (and nickable) to just uses an Allen bolt.
PS
Dia Compe 287V levers, I have got these too. I agree there are very poor if there was a better lever I would swap them out tomorrow.
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One other thing just came to mind the Avid noodle fits my frame better than the 287V adjustable noodle so I swapped the adjuster onto the Avid noodle.
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Stutho, I couldn't figure out why reversible noodle would help at the back so I went to check.
You're right, I didn't realise how poor the routng was into the rear noodle, worse than the front really.
Gulp....>£100 on 2 small bits of alloy. I think I'll try one at the front first.
XTRs are too complex for something as simple as linear-pull. I currently get a lot of 'stiction' on my brakes and have bent the return springs in order to get cleaner centering.
I hear that the bearings in the Ultimates are much smoother and should help this.
Are there any recommended cables? Teflon lined...or whatever, I may as well do the whole lot in one go.
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quote:
I hear that the bearings in the Ultimates are mush smoother and should help this.
Yes I run my front brake with almost no tension at all. My back brake has a bit more to cope with cable drag.
I am currently using cheapo cable housing with stainless inners but a maintenance free, Teflon lined cable has to be the way to go. I haven’t changed the brake cables since I put the bike together. This winter I might have a look at switch them for something more slick
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quote:
Originally posted by stuthoPS
Dia Compe 287V levers, I have got these too. I agree there are very poor if there was a better lever I would swap them out tomorrow.
Stutho, do you mean they don't work very well? I assume they stop other wise you wouldn't use them [:D]. How do they compare to a decent straight bar lever? Are they badly designed or very difficult to fit? Perhaps a mixture of all these?
Kevin
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quote:
Are they badly designed or very difficult to fit?
Yes and Yes. They also bend the cable very badly giving lots of cable drag.
Unfortunately they are the only drop levers that will directly pull a V brake. There is one other option - to use a travel agent, but I don't like them either.
I actually reengineered my 287V to get a slightly improved cable route. Final state of play is that they are OK once fitted but I still would swap them if there were another option out there.
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Seconded.
They don't generate as much power as a straight-bar lever BUT I can still lock wheels up (so there's no point in being more powerful I guess).
It's just the quality and feel of them is very poor compared to a Shimano STI lever.
Stutho may be one of several who have drilled out the cable hole to dispense with the 'noodle' required on the lever.
They do a job I suppose but it's annoying when I have fitted quality parts everywhere else to have this piece of 1970's-looking alloy stuck on my bike.
I'm sure there's a niche market for some small outfit (like Surly) to machine a better item and sell it at a premium.
I'm just hoping Avid Ultimates make the whole setup a bit smoother and efficient
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Freddered, as you have a Raven Tour with forward facing brake bosses, why didn't you fit cantilevers with "proper" drop bar levers?
Kevin
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I've considered it but extra hardware (hangers)put me off.
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Got the rear ultimate brake on at the weekend but have not changed the cable or lever yet. Stutho's instructions f removing the rohloff adjusters on the 'rohloff newbie' thread worked fine. The brakes make a huge difference to what I was used to but I can't yet put hand on heart and say they are definitely better than a newly set up cheaper model -I probably need an emergency stop to test it properly. They are very easy to adjust and I have set them extremely close to the (still perfectly aligned) rim. Now wondering whether to just change the slightly rusty inner cables when I replace the levers, or go the whole hog with low friction outers as well....
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Geocycle...any update on how you find the Ultimates?
I just ordered a pair from ChainReaction. £98 for front and rear....gulp.
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I have both leavers and brakes on my Trek cross bike. Awsome braking, the front is on the least power, other wise I can flip the bike.
Mark
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Freddered, my riding has been restricted over the last month as I've been away. However, I am pleased with the avids so far (no flex, no screech, quality rim-friendly blocks, smooth operation and easy to fix). Without changing levers and cables they have already improved braking. nevertheless, in my opinion this has been only a relatively small improvement and is certainly disproportionate to the cost, but could still be important and significant in an emergency situation. I think with rim brakes, something less than half the efficiency is down to the hardware and the rest is the set-up and maintenance. I don't regret buying the avids as they offer simple excellence and are supremely fit for purpose, which is the principal I am looking for in my bike build.
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I have fitted mine now.
First thoughts...they look and feel superb (they should do at nearly £50 a pair).
Rear Wheel braking is much better, even on old cables.
Front Braking is improved, silky smooth now. I think mainly due to much better cable routing.
However, front brake HOWLS like a banshee. I guess I need to toe it in.
Worth it to make cable routing neater I think.
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Fitted cheap ASDA (Bell) blocks and squealing stopped. Brakes are smoother, more powerful, less 'stiction' and make the cabling less messy (shorter cable to front brake and rear cable drops straight into noodle at rear without cross-over). Expensive but worth it (in my opinion)
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Hi freddered,
Sorry for the late reply
I also had a problem with front brake squeal (Ultimates, Koolstop salmon, Ceramic 717) I fitted a carbon brake booster, which help enormously.
NB this is on the RST WITHOUT the twin plate forks
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The Avid blocks had replaceable pads and the bolt was 'floating' so I suspect there was room for some play. Basically over-complex for something I prefer to be as simple as possible.
All is well now
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I've now finished my brake overhaul using xtr cables and levers with the avid ultimates. The whole set up is really very good indeed. I'm pleased I did the upgrade and it is noticeably slicker than the standard shimano package. Is it worth the money -still not really sure! I still feel that set up is by far the most most important element with v-brakes.
Sorry you had the problem with the screeching fred, but glad you've now solved it. I must have been lucky that the avid rim wrangler pads took to my CR18 rims first time. They've been completely silent in all conditions.