Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Non-Thorn Related => Topic started by: in4 on May 31, 2012, 01:31:26 pm
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Take a look at the ten cycling items here, as recommended by The Independent newspaper.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/the-10-best-cycling-gear-7805011.html?action=gallery&ino=1
My eyes water at the price of this stuff!
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A backpack that doesn't contact your back directly is nice though, sweating running of my back commuting with ine, so can very well be worth the extra. My dad has one.
Merino wool has a very good name, it will not go smelly and insulates very well. The boyfriend has a top in it he won't part with even though it's got about 10 holes by now and half of the left arm is gone due to a fall, that must say something... ;)
I would say it's all not too expensive, bar the jersey, but maybe that's my shopping style. I buy expensive items in sale, trusting they will last longer. North Face has a good value I believe, I just went total snob and got a Gore jacket in the sale ;D
And a second hand Thorn now that we are on spending money for kit that lasts...and lasts...and lasts.. :P
Got a £40 waterproof backpack and guess was the back is getting loose at the seams...for heavy use items (mine is used 4 times a week commuting often bulging from laptop, food for work, training clothes etc...) in my experience you can't beat spending a few quid more.
Though the local LIDL/ALDI can do good kit at a super price, but the question is always: Do you get up early enough :P (and some stores get less stock)
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Hi All!
Ooh, nice find, Ian! Fun stuff.
My impressions...open for debate, of course! Everyone is different, and what works well for one might not for another...
1) Backpack. I commuted with one for the better part of a decade before swearing it off. A nicely foam-padded back kept the sharp-pokies out of my kidneys, but the weight took a toll on my shoulders and my back was always wet from sweat. If I can manage it, I won't wear a backpack while riding again. However (in the "never say never" category!) I could see using a pannier that doubles as a backpack off-bike, as offered by Ortlieb ( http://www.ortlieb.co.uk/back-vario-ql3.html )...if I could figure a way to match it with one on the other side of the rack. Riding an unevenly-distributed load eventually gets my back. That said, nothing beats a small day-pack for carrying loads while leaving hands free. The ultimate solution might lie in a backpack that attached firmly and securely to the rear rack-top. Yeah! That'd do for me.
2) Dry Lube. Just the ticket for many who have had better luck with it than I. Pete from Australia (aka Il Padrone, "the master") has gotten me on the Purple Extreme ( http://www.purpleextreme.com/ ) track, and so far I like it. Good on ya, Pete!).
3) Casual-looking cycling shorts. I always wear my padded-bottom black lycra shorts when "riding with intent", but when I have to wear casuals, I go with my ExOfficio Amphi shorts, with built-in brief so they double as swimming trunks that launder with hand soap in a motel sink and dry in minutes in summer weather. They even have a nifty inner key pocket and webbing straps at the bottom of the legs to prevent ballooning in the water or when riding a recumbent. The pockets and brief are mesh for quick drainage of trapped water after a swim. USD$20 on sale as a last-season's closeout, yay! Of course, like many Good Things, they are no longer made (replaced with the de-contented Nio Amphi edition http://www.exofficio.com/products/details/mens-nio-amphi-short ). Prolly 'cos the originals were perfect and lasted forever.
4) Full fingers on summer cycling gloves seem a little anomalous to me. I prefer my half-fingered padded gloves (Pearl Izumi via a Chinese eBay seller whose goods might not really be authentic when the reference retail is USD$35 and his price is $12 postpaid?) for summer and my Danneaux-modded 1981 Early Winters ( http://www.oregonphotos.com/Early-Winters-1.html ) Gore-Tex Lobster-Claw 3-fingered gauntlet overmitts for wet, cold, or wet-cold weather, atop the summer PI gloves, of course!
5) Satchel/messenger bag. Ideal for many, I've foresworn them thanks to a grisly memory from my long-ago uni days, when I witnessed a young woman wearing one while riding. She was a bit careless and didn't cross-sling it diagonally across her body. The result? It swung forward and jammed between the front tire and the near fork blade. She rotated neatly around the locked front wheel and swallowed most of her teeth. I arrived in time to pick up several of them and drop them in a small carton of milk I'd just bought for lunch (the proper way to preserve separated teeth till they can be replanted). I couldn't do much for the broken nose or cheekbone, but walked her and the bike to the hospital emergency room a half-block away, then turned the bike over to her friends for safekeeping. Every time I see one of these things, I see a broken young woman. Irrational, I know, but there ya go. Ladies' shoulder bags can do the same thing, and you don't see me using one of those, either.
6) Lightweight jersey. Ideal; I have some light summer jerseys, and they really do make a difference wrt air flow. My recent purchase of two long-sleeved neon high-viz yellow-green jerseys are made of like stuff, have an SPF 50+ sun-block rating, and feel cooler than nothing at all, passing the breezes while wicking me dry. Mine were a sale item at 46% reduction here: http://www.nashbar.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=524336&storeId=10053&catalogId=10052&langId=-1 Zipper pull is on the "wrong" side and the zipper separates if you open it like a jacket, so don't. It still works fine if you consider it to be simply a really long-zipped neck opening and makes for easy on/off by pulling over the head. So bright, these make the house walls glow when I stand near near them. Wearable alone or over another jersey.
7) Helmet with detachable visor. An individual choice; some always wear 'em (me), some never do, and others kinda-sorta-sometimes might, depending. I prefer a lighter, more swoopy design than the one pictured, and have had terrible luck with visors. I have a small, narrow noggin, and the best-fitting most-comfortable and coolest helmet I've ever used is the Euro-market Bell Alchera, sold in the States with a visor as the Bell Influx. I liked the Alchera so much I bought two in different colors (one red, the other bloonwite [blue and white]) so I could wash and dry one and ride the other. Like having a Ghisallo at a bargain rate...that actually fits. USD$29 and $49 respectively, on sale. More (or less) now: http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/SearchDisplay?storeId=10053&catalogId=10052&langId=-1&cn1=&gast=alchera&URL=CatalogSearchResultView&searchTerm=alchera
8 ) Kryptonite EvoLite lock and cable set. I love the secure Evo2000 Kryptonite sent me free as compensation for the Bic pen-openable model I bought. Lacking only the hanging tang, it is otherwise identical to the one pictured, and free is hard to beat. Combined with my AXA Defender ring-lock, plug-in AXA cable, and a set of Atomic-22 security skewers and appropriate steerer-cap bolts, I'm set. Oh! and the motion-detecting security alarm on the seatpost.
9) Trigger-spray bike cleaner. I have good luck treating my shiny-finish frames with a co-polymer lotion intended as a post-wax gloss-enhancer on show cars. Any dirt that gets on the bike after treatment just wipes off with a damp cloth or slides off under a stream of water. Won't work on Sherpa's matte finish, so will use a gentle, phosphate-free detergent. Don't forget common hair shampoo, which has no phosphates that would otherwise pit and discolor raw aluminum (i.e. rim sidewalls). Gentle, safe, cheap stuff without conditioner at the Dollar Store (baby shampoo is best)...and you really deserve a sweet-smelling bike, right?
10) Kevlar-belted Conti road tires. I'm a reluctant belted-tire convert, still somewhat unconvinced of their ultimate worth, but since flats always happen at the worst times...why not? The early models I tried when they were first introduced in the early 1980s were atrocious and often suffered from tread separations that were worse than the flats they were supposed to prevent. They got that straightened out, but rolling resistance went through the roof, and they felt like pedaling lead hoops through deep mud on a foam mattress. That seems to be largely addressed, so I no longer have an excuse except for grousing about the extra rotational mass. I do wish my Schwalbe Duremes would survive the steel belt shrapnel from exploded truck tires, but the little wires go through the tread and belt like a hot knife through butter. These things are the bane of highway shoulder-travelling tourists, but the belts have gotta help compared to the alternative and the problem really doesn't happen very often. Once, so far, so I can't complain.
So, there you have it; my two cents, adjusted for inflation.
All the best,
Dan. (who prefers "frugal" to "tight" or "cheap")
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My take on the items listed ...
1) Backpack: I don't mind walking with one, but for cycling I always want to carry anything on the bike rather than on me (like Andy Blance). I can see merit in using a backpack for a short commute, but that doesn't apply to me.
2) Dry Lube: doesn't cut it in our wet climate in Scotland, Finish Line Cross Country wet lube please.
3) Baggy shorts: I am a bit of a cycling chameleon, with drop bars and skinny tyres I like to wear lycra cycling gear (mostly Gore bike wear), but on the RST I tend to go more casual and wear The North Face Levada baggy shorts, sometimes with an outdoor (TNF Sequoia) shirt ... looks civilised for cafe stops and lots of pockets for carrying stuff.
4) Full finger summer gloves: I think these are for mountain bikers to protect their fingers when they fall off? I wear Specialized BG track mitts in summer.
5) Satchel/messenger bag: never needed or owned one, same principles as backpack for me.
6) Lightweight jersey: I have never seen Rapha gear in the flesh so to speak, I own Gore lycra jerseys with windstopper fronts, which are definitely not cheap!
7) Helmet with detachable visor: I own a helmet, but fall into the "kinda-sorta-sometimes might, depending" category Dan describes, I tend to wear traditional cycle racing trade style cotton caps.
8 ) Kryptonite lock: I own an aged Squire u-lock which only gets used for bike storage at home. I carry a cable lock since I only ever leave my bike unattended outside a bike shop, or outside a cafe or garden centre when partaking tea and cakes - I consider these low-risk situations.
9) Trigger spray bike cleaner: I have one of these kicking around somewhere, but I tend to use the same stuff I got for the car.
10) Kevlar belted conti road tyres: DEFINITELY! I rode many miles on Conti Top Touring tyres, the original and best, I have a pair of NOS in my loft awaiting my return to sanity and reversion from 26" wheels/tyres back to 700 x 32. Where's that Club Tour brochure again? ;)
I don't mind paying for premium quality, items that last as Jawine said. I admit [but not to Mrs Relayer] that I do probably spend too much on cycling products, but it's a hobby and I find it fascinating.
Cheers.
Jim (now got 'Living in the Past' by Jethro Tull going on in my head)
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Merino wool has a very good name, it will not go smelly and insulates very well. The boyfriend has a top in it he won't part with even though it's got about 10 holes by now and half of the left arm is gone due to a fall, that must say something... ;)
It says he's waiting for you to buy him a new one! :P
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Second the need for Finish Line Wet Lube, dry stuff won't do it here either
Well, he didn't get a new one yet cos he doesn't like any other ones he's seen! You'd think a black long sleeve Merino jersey is easy to find but...
And they say women are fussy with clothes... :P
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"Dan. (who prefers "frugal" to "tight" or "cheap")"
Or as they say in Yorkshire Dan, "careful".
Cheers
Ian
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Great choices and reasons, everyone (except now *I* can't stop hearing the Tull's LITP...darned melody is stuck in my head...).
I'm starting to see hi-viz, neon yellow-green cycling gloves showing up on local commuters. They sure do the job for hand signals (all kinds), and some also sport retro-reflective tape on the backs for night use. I finally tracked down which local shop sells them and came away disappointed. They are full-fingered, have mush for palm padding, and are (still reeling from the figure) sixty US dollars!
Or, I could drop by the construction equippage and safety store and pick up the same thing meant for road workers and costing about half: http://www.esafetystore.com/KeywordGroupSearch/Keyword/hivisglovestock
Even these are less and look very nice indeed for cooler months:
http://www.probikekit.com/us/sealskinz-ultra-grip-hi-vis-cycling-gloves-full-finger.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=google_base_usd
Wishing I could find the same locally in a half-fingered roadie's glove with decent padding for about the same cost or just a little more than "regular" biking gloves. May have to drop by The Rain Shed ( http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=the+rain+shed&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CG0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.therainshed.com%2F&ei=hczIT5j6IozrggfDr4SDAQ&usg=AFQjCNH9GMcbIBUehKVkgXB7f7O_-mpJkw&cad=rja ) on my next riding loop through Corvallis and see if I can pick up some hi-viz lycra to sew on the backs of my current gloves.
Pearl Izumi has 'em too; may have to go mail-order, where it is often tough to find good gloves the first go-round 'cos you can't try them on:
http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1111089_-1___000000
Best,
Dan. (who really likes the "careful" appellation; thanks Ian!).
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We say "as tight as a duck's backend here ;D
Dan: I had sealskin watertight gloves, they were very poor as they stopped the water going in, but the outside stayed wet so my fingers ended up freezing cold anyway :( I recommend checking reviews on their items first.
Gore Tex (or a similar waterproof material) gloves are the best choice, expensive, but you get 50% off deals in online stores. At least here in the UK.
A cheap hi-vis option is indeed construction workers kit. Put on a £5 hi-vis top and you don't need to look like a reflective lemon during the times you don't need hi-vis like...day :)
Nothing wrong with being frugal, more money for Thorn kit :P
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Another thumbs down for the Sealskinz gloves here. I've had two pairs of the winter waterproof ones and they are truly lamentable. I wear substantial gloves all year round to protect my piano-playing digits and liken the Sealskinz to sealed plastic bags. I don't recall them being particularly cheap either. Avoid.
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Thanks for the "-2" on the SealSkinz gloves. The things I buy have to really work in practice, and cost is a factor. I don't mind paying more if the stuff works and lasts awhile. Haven't tried SealSkinz products, but keep reading mixed reviews...
These data points really help, especially as they are based on personal experience; thanks!
The 30+ year-old Gore-Tex overmitts are still going strong, so I may as well keep them.
Best,
Dan. (who might never play the piano again...having never played to begin with. Greatly admiring those who can and do!)
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If you don't like cold hands, ride in all weathers and like a cost effective product you have to try Buffalo mitts. Only £20 a pair!
http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/dp16rollover.htm
Amazingly durable for the weight, wring them out when wet, suprisingly easy to ride in. If it's really "minging" weather wear two (stepped sizes) or use British army surplus goretex arctic overmitts on top.
Easy to carry "just in case".
I have extensively field tested these and even in the Pennines where it often manages to be subzero AND wet!! with ripping winds they work well. No glove made is waterproof and these don't pretend or need to be.
I get mine from http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Technical-Clothing/Shell/Buffalo/DP-Mitts-BUF-MIT
May there be many happy pianists and brain surgeons amongst you,
Ian
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Ground Effect does good merino tops.
http://www.groundeffect.co.nz/product-detail-SUB-MER.htm
I think all of their gear presents good value and is worth a try if you haven't already.
heers,
pj
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Tx, I'll pass it on but it has a stripe down the side and he's really fussy so... :P
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Whilst I am more than happy to try out the delights of ebay products from Hong Kong and like to pop my head in the pound shop every so often, I definitely end up getting the good stuff in the end if you need to rely on it to perform.
I always try and buy second hand because you can usually sell it on for what you pay for it.
If someone can point me to an alternative to Rapha that looks as good and is as well made but DOES NOT LOOK LIKE CYCLE CLOTHING I'll be at it like a shot.
I like riding bikes but I hate looking like a cyclist, but 6 hours a day in the saddle requires clothes that do the job. So for now Rapha is the best I can find.
No matter how good that ground effect gear is it just looks like ALL other cycling gear. Not for me I'm afraid. At least the Rapha has got a bit of a retro vibe about it. But yes it is ridiculously expensive. So were my Gore Fusion GT AS waterproofs. Some of the very few things I actually bought new. Got a 1/3rd off though:) Easily the best technical clothes I have ever owned. How a jacket and trousers can breath when done up, but a cheapy one, with vents from armpit to waist and the main zip open leaves me dripping in sweat, I don't know.
But with a life time guarantee, at least they put their money where their mouth is.While we are talking overpriced clothing I'll have to vote for Assos Bib shorts as well.
Going on a multi year tour makes it a lot easier to justify buying the best as you will be wearing it every single day.
For balance I'm also taking a couple of Decathlon sportwool tshirts, a tenner each:)
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If someone can point me to an alternative to Rapha that looks as good and is as well made but DOES NOT LOOK LIKE CYCLE CLOTHING I'll be at it like a shot.
I'm not exactly an off-bike fashion plate, but I've had good luck wearing either a t-shirt or tucking my solid-color jersey in my cargo shorts or cargo pants with zip-off legs when off-bike and thought I looked okay ("Why are all those people staring and pointing?"). If in cool weather, I put on my smoothout fleece jacket, which is black like all my cold-weather gear (to better absorb any heat from sunlight; it does make a difference).
Richie, what sort of off-bike "look" are you aiming for? If it is the sort of thing where you want to look like you aren't biking, then Ex Officio may be your company ( http://www.exofficio.com/ ). Their stuff looks casual-outdoorsy and is all geared toward the traveler with lightweight, low-wrinkle fabrics that can be washed in a hand basin and dried on a shower rod overnight -- in just a couple hours in summer's heat. They make my Amphi cargo shorts, which I also wear for "good". And, the new Nio version of those shorts (replacing the kind I love with the built-in mesh brief) would be light enough and likely just long enough to wear over dedicated lycra cycling shorts without problems. The Ex Officio stuff isn't cheap, but it surely lasts. My shorts usually die from sun-rot, which means about 8 years' hard, hard use. I buy mine on sale and at season's end closeouts for about 60% reduction, so I'm always wearing last (five) year's styles but who cares 'cos it is pretty timeless.
This is one of their "civilian-looking" casual shirts: http://www.exofficio.com/products/details/mens-roughian-macro-plaid-short-sleeve-shirt
...pair it with these...
http://www.exofficio.com/products/details/mens-nio-amphi-pant-short-length
...and you'd blend in nicely at any event here in Oregon short of a full-formal thing. Of course, "formal" in Eugene means wearing a shirt with a collar. One that isn't tie-dyed. ;) I spend most of my time in either jeans (winter) or EO Amphi cargo shorts (summer) and a "technical" or "dry" t-shirt. Does for work, since most if it is done from home. The shirts with collars are reserved for dentist and doctor appointments, dinners with friends, and meeting clients in person. Funerals and weddings get the tuxedo (if a member of the wedding party) or sport coat and tie with dress pants and good shoes (everything else truly formal including meeting clients in their work environment).
Best,
Dan.
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Hi Ritchie,
I live in Australia and don't see much Rapha gear so can't comment on it, but I'm not sure that all Ground Effect stuff looks just like any other cycling gear.
e.g. you could wear their Underdogs under anything else you care to wear and no one will even know you have them on:
http://www.groundeffect.co.nz/product-detail-UND-SHO.htm
The Double Happys don't make me look like a cyclist either: http://www.groundeffect.co.nz/product-detail-DOU-SHO.htm
OTH, NOTHING could make me look like a proper cyclist.
Their baggy shorts without liners look OK but I haven't tried them as I have enough baggy shorts as it is.
Their Tshirts look reasonably non cycling specific too, but having said all that, there's probably a reason that cycling gear looks like cycling gear and that's the fact that it's designed to be comfortable on the bike. ;)
But I agree there are times when you don't want to look like an out and out roadie and that's when I wear my Double Happys and non lycra Rock Lobster.
Cheers,
pj
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Cheers Dan and Peter for the suggestions. I've had a good look through both of your companies sites you suggest. They both seem to make clothing that will definitely do the job it is intended for. No doubt about that. But I guess it just comes down to individual taste at the end of the day. When I say I would like clothing that doesn't make me look like a cyclist, I think what I should have said was that I would prefer clothing that doesn't look like it's designed for outdoor or technical use. ::) Ridiculous I know.
Like you say Peter things tend to look like they do because of the job they need to do. But I only buy that to a certain level. I still stand by what I say about the Groundeffect clothing. It just looks generic like all other cycling/outdoor gear I see in any shop I walk in. Nothing wrong with it, just not for me.
Dan, I see what angle you are coming from with the ExOfficio. I've got a pair of Craghopper zipoffs and a couple of Quecha sportwool t-shirts that are on the same kind of vibe. Whilst I know I will be glad of having them with me they are my least favourite pieces of clothing style wise.
I will always go for clothing that does the job, I just wish there was a bit more choice in the way it looks.
Three years ago I didn't own a bike, let alone any cycling clothes. I'm stubbornly adjusting ;D
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SWRV is a bit hipster but they do some nice stuff. There's a UK site. http://www.swrve.co.uk/ Cycling jeans with stitching not where it hurts, waterproof regular looking hoodies etc. It's a bit more casual.
Maybe the merino wool stuff is easier to buy from a regular clothing company rather than Rapha? As their current stuff suffers from pack pocket syndrome.
Unless the cut is wildly different?
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or...
http://www.natureshop.co.uk/icebreaker/mens-mid-layer/
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"If someone can point me to an alternative to Rapha that looks as good and is as well made but DOES NOT LOOK LIKE CYCLE CLOTHING I'll be at it like a shot."
http://shop.outlier.cc/shop/ (http://shop.outlier.cc/shop/) Good stuff and well made, but even more expensive.
Rapha merino tops are cut like cycling tops, with annoying rear pockets that makes them difficult to tuck in as work wear.
http://shop.ibex.com/ (http://shop.ibex.com/) polo shirts are better, and often available at a more reasonable price in the Outlet (postage and import costs can be rather painful though).
The other approach is to wear 'normal' clothes and cycle slower - the Danish way.
For touring, I generally use what I would have on in the hills, the only cycle specific items being Rapha padded merino boxers (the best cycling underwear I have ever used) and gloves.
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Like you say Peter things tend to look like they do because of the job they need to do. But I only buy that to a certain level. I still stand by what I say about the Groundeffect clothing. It just looks generic like all other cycling/outdoor gear I see in any shop I walk in.
I'm going to suggest that's most likely because it is intended for cycling/outdoor activities.
One thing I will say for Ground Effect that makes it stand out from the crowd - it is exceptionally durable. I have just bought my third pair of the Sputniks cycling knicks. The first pair are still in use but looking a little worn. I bought them in 1998. I have their wonderful Frosty Boy windproof top, one of the most well-used tops I have. It gets used in spring/autumn over a jersey, in winter layered over one or two other tops, and in summer as a jumper to wear around camp on cool evenings. I bought mine in about 1999.
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I would prefer clothing that doesn't look like it's designed for outdoor or technical use...Ridiculous I know.
Richie,
I think your goals are entirely reasonable, but may be hard to execute while still maintaining full function. I have to admit, when I'm wearing my EO stuff during my REI visits, I look like every other person there dressed in the same general outdoorsy technical fabric-casual style. I can surely see why you're seeking something more individual that doesn't necessarily scream "bike" or "outdoors". Neon yellow-green jackets and black lycra tights are almost a uniform for cyclists around here now. If you wear something else, you risk fading invisibly into the general traffic stream.
Hmm.
Have you thought about clothing vendors for other sports? Of course, their things are also tailored with function in mind, but a popular style here (uni crowd to tech-geeks in their mid- to upper-30s and this writer, owns some but is also in a tech- and research-related field) is board fashion, as in skate- and surf. One popular vendor is Tilly's: http://www.tillys.com , Men's directory here: http://www.tillys.com/tillys/Categories.aspx?ctlg=010_Guys&cid=
When I was regularly bicycle commuting for most of a decade, I had to dress for where I was going more than I dressed for the journey (no changing facilities at the destination, and side-drafting city buses gave me the needed speed without breaking much of a sweat). The trouble is, most of what I wore was cotton and such and really not very comfortable for riding. I could endure it for the two-way commute, but not much longer.
It's tough finding the right combination, Richie. Best of luck to you, and let us know if we can help further.
All the best,
Dan.
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Some interesting alternatives suggested there. I will be having a good look at the swrv particularly. Cheers.
I don't think it's so much of not wanting to look like everyone else, but more just not loving what the usual type of outdoor clothing looks like.
Material and cut is of course important for an item of clothing to do it's job well. But colour, stripes, detailing and extras are down to design.
I have tried non outdoor clothes but for long distance, everyday multi month touring it's just a no, on so many fronts.
Glad to have got a few different opinions though :)
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If you want to have a laugh look at the SWRV US site...the hipster factor is off the scale ;D
(I have a hipster fixie too, Charge Hob...so maybe I should shut up. In my defense my clothes don't match and I use SPDs instead of toe clips/powergrips ;D)
The manfriend likes the SWRV stuff though and he's pretty fussy ;)
Levis now started doing a commuter range too :)
Only for men though cos you know women don't cycle (sheesh!)
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I saw the Levi Commuter Jeans mentioned in another blog about a month ago At the time they were U.S. only but they were half the price of Rapha Jeans so really interested in giving them a go.
Sorry to say it but the pockets on the back of clothing are a must. Whilst that is probably the most defining thing about a cycling top, it's also the most handy for me.
I was down at the Nocturne at Smithfields in London yesterday. Lots of variety in cycling(ish) clothes down there. You're certainly not individual wearing your Rapha down there. ;D