Author Topic: Re: Ambiguous semantics and chain tension -- what minimum range?  (Read 7884 times)

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Ambiguous semantics and chain tension -- what minimum range?
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2013, 05:57:13 pm »

I've been running a 40x17 combo on my Nomad Mk2, and with Rohloff's relaxed guidelines, I changed that to a smaller 36x17 today.
Dan. (...who may be taking things too literally)

I know we are on a chain topic here but have to ask....
any problems changing the front ring?
I may need to do this on my Raven. What tools do I require?
Thanks
matt
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

julk

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Re: Ambiguous semantics and chain tension -- what minimum range?
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2013, 06:16:06 pm »
matt,
just an allen key of the right size plus maybe a chainring nut spanner or something to hold it steady.
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/park-tool-cnw2c-chainring-nut-wrench-prod15117/
Julian.

Danneaux

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Re: Ambiguous semantics and chain tension -- what minimum range?
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2013, 06:53:22 pm »
Quote
any problems changing the front ring?
Nope; not a bit; didn't even need to pull the crank arms or pedals, just did as Julian described, then rotated the 'ring so it cleared the spider/arms and then reversed the process to reinstall. I squashed my nylon toe clip and webbing strap flat with one hand so the 'ring could pass over it. A 5-minute job, no worries.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 10:19:44 pm by Danneaux »

triaesthete

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Re: Ambiguous semantics and chain tension -- what minimum range?
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2013, 11:21:23 pm »
Hi Dan
I'm a bit late to this but here's my two bits worth:

I think Rohloff and Thorn are compelled to give numerical values for chain slack because it simplifies writing the manuals and takes into account users with little mechanical experience.

IF you can find and feel the tightest spot on the chain, and that point has a little slack, then this must be sufficient as the chain would need some tension in it to preload and stress the bearings.

I think getting it to the minimised slack condition has one key practical advantage: you can go more miles to the next adjustment with less worry about it falling off.

Practically this may allay the need for an in the field adjustment on some trips, therefore less to worry about. 

For day to day use it just moves adjustment requirements  as far apart in time/miles as possible and it implies  fewer eccentric indents with the widest possible spacing.

I find if I start like this, with a new chain, excessive slack then occurs just as the chain is arriving at 0.75% stretch. I also finds chains seem to run themselves in and gain some initial elongation very quickly when new. (Caveat: do not adjust it slightly tight on the basis this will happen as it will overload the bearings. Even large motorcycle sprocket ie (gearbox output) bearings have been known to fail under tight chains. ::) Ahem!)

So far I have found removing chains at 0.75% stretch or so means a new replacement can go straight on on the same b/b position (but I still check the slack carefully as they go on!). The cunning plan is to keep dropping new chains on until the chainring and sprocket teeth show visible wear. At this point I plan to reset the b/b position and run through the same set of chains again and stretch them to almost fallling off (1.5% stretch??). Then scrap the chains and reverse the ring and sprocket and start again....

Happy fiddling
Ian


Danneaux

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Re: Ambiguous semantics and chain tension -- what minimum range?
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2013, 01:15:25 am »
Now, Ian...you're just scaring me. I'm pretty sure you have developed remote viewing or mind-reading to a very high state, as you have exactly described my thought processes behind posting this topic.

Cue eerie music: Oooweeeooo!  :o

My ultimate plan is to try and duplicate Stuart's (Stutho's) exemplary drivetrain life and eventually run chainring, cog, and chain into the ground, reverse 'ring and cog and add a new chain, then replace all three components on the next go-'round in a fresh start. I keep reminding myself this is not a triple-and-cassette derailleur bike, so it can be "alright" to let components wear-in (and then wear-out) together. It is a worthy experiment, anyway. The three components in question aren't that expensive compared to their derailleur equivalents. For science!

All the best,  :D

Dan. (...who is sleeping with one eye open from now on; Ian's watching!)

triaesthete

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Re: Ambiguous semantics and chain tension -- what minimum range?
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2013, 01:46:47 am »
Auric Ianfinger

Stroking cat:

"Vell meester Danneaxeauxseven eet ees my very cunning plan to subvert zee verld viz telepathy and unwriteably subtle analogue procedures. You logical mind vill be your undoing! Ha ha ha!"

Danneaux

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Re: Ambiguous semantics and chain tension -- what minimum range?
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2013, 01:54:46 am »

triaesthete

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Re: Ambiguous semantics and chain tension -- what minimum range?
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2013, 07:38:37 am »

 I did know that! Google is a wonderful tool. Mind you Dan it was only as spooky as you knowing exactly what the "breakfast of champions" had on the menu and following up with the anorak!

Cryptic wishes
Ian

Danneaux

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Re: Ambiguous semantics and chain tension -- what minimum range?
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2013, 11:53:19 pm »
Hi All!

A few things intervened and delayed my final chain-tension work till today.

I fiddled around with Sheldon's method till I minimized the tight spot, then *at mid-span with the chain at its minimal remaining very small  tight spot*, I ended up setting my eccentric to allow 12.7mm/0.5in of chain slack, as I have successfully done with my tandem timing chain.

This seemed a good compromise for a used chain with little wear/stretch.

I measured using Thorn's method (T1-T2 in mm, using a digital Mitutoyo inside/outside caliper) and Rohloff's method (pushing the chain up from below against a caliper, same as I do on the tandem between the timing rings) and got the same measurement.

If you have a mania for precision, be sure to measure between like links (peaks or valleys) if you use the Thorn method or you'll get a 6-7mm total difference in your measurements; half that if you measure a high and low link-set.

Many thanks to all for weighing in.

Best,

Dan. (...who thinks we're all links in a chain of some kind, lubricated with the oil of politeness and consideration)