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Bikes For Sale / Mercury MK3 580L ( eBay )
« Last post by brummie on Today at 08:45:09 pm »
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Thorn General / Re: Mullet nomad mk 2 (26" rear -- 27.5" front)
« Last post by in4 on Today at 01:59:48 pm »
Using an Ortlieb bar bag. I try to keep the weight down to a minimum. Usually glasses, keys, headtorch; small stuff. On the odd occasion I put my phone in it I try to place it in 'landscape' position and as near to the steerer as possible. Too much weight in the bar bag makes it move up and down, especially when I'm climbing in a low gear. Also it makes the steering less 'sure' particularly when using a T bar. I think my bar bag is an Ultimate model er, 6 litre. I'll get a map case to sit on top of it one of these days.
In short, I've found a bar bag ( attached to a T bar) very useful for putting small essentials in plus its easy to remove when necessary ( going into a store for example )
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Thorn General / Re: Mullet nomad mk 2 (26" rear -- 27.5" front)
« Last post by Andyb1 on May 23, 2024, 08:55:06 am »
A simple example of how to achieve good aerodynamic stability are the fins on the rear of a dart.   You can not throw a dart backwards!

I also found how badly the WEIGHT of the handlebar bag effected the bike’s stability.  Particularly at slower speeds.  Yet gravel riders seem happy to carry large bags strapped to the handlebars……

Before touring in India I tried riding with different loads in my Carradice Super C handlebar bag (which with mount weighs close to 1kg), without rear panniers, on a calm day.  It is rated to carry 7kg but anything over 2kg in it made the bike unpleasant.  This was on a rigid MTB which already had much faster (twitchy) handling than a touring frame.  The only solution I could come up with was to fit slightly wider straight handlebars than those I normally use, to give me a bit more control.

By comparison my Sherpa will cope fine with +2kg in the same bag with narrower handlebars - but it has a much more stable fork geometry.
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Non-Thorn Related / Re: +++Rides of 2024+++Add yours here+++
« Last post by Andre Jute on May 23, 2024, 05:04:47 am »
Cape Town, one of the most beautiful cities in the world, could be a misery in any season, not only the cold, wet winters. In the summer there was the maddening Cape Doctor, a wind that could and did drive people beyond mere distraction into sociopathic behaviour. All the same, I'm not so sure the hot, muggy daily thunderstorms of the Transvaal Highveld were any more pleasant. Still, if you were in Big Business in South Africa, or the arts for that matter, it was Cape Town or Johannesburg (or for politics nearby Pretoria, another beautiful city). But the best cycling was that long, long descent from Pietermaritzburg to Durban.

Lovely writeup, John, and as always a superb eye for framing the photographs just right. I just loved that sweeping turn on the road in the budding spring between the tall, straight trees, with the fortunate cyclist as the only traffic.

I'm not so sure even the Nile is a mile wide except in its estuary. Mind you, the Lee, a good wide river in Cork City, with enough draft right in the middle of the city to take a major sailing ship that the Dutch use to train naval cadets, less than thirty miles away is a six inch dribble that on a hill walk I stepped across without noticing it until a geography teacher asked us to show some respect. On the other hand, the Torrens, an impressive river in downtown Adelaide down under, is a miserable little stream just outside the city, and it's impressive girth is explained by being dammed up at the other end of the city.

Keats! Laughing out Loud.

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Non-Thorn Related / Re: +++Rides of 2024+++Add yours here+++
« Last post by John Saxby on May 23, 2024, 12:15:18 am »
Nice weather indeed, Mike.  I loved the southern-hemisphere cold season when we lived in southern Africa -- ideal for hiking & cycling. (Softie that I am, I avoided the Cape in the cold season...)

Hot'n'muggy here today, around 30, with a thunderstorm in the offing.  (July weather.)

Coffee's worth a spike anytime  ;)

Ron, when I first saw that smudge on the photo, I thought -- "Helicopter??"  But I'd heard nothing.  Should've used the viewfinder rather than the screen on my camera -- the bright sun left me guessing with the framing of the photo.  The blackflies should be done by early July... 🤞

Cheers,  John
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Thorn General / Re: Mullet nomad mk 2 (26" rear -- 27.5" front)
« Last post by Andre Jute on May 22, 2024, 11:57:05 pm »
My personal experience is that an easy way to inadvertently upset a bike’s stability is to fit a handlebar bag.   Without rear panniers it upsets the bike in a X-wind and it’s weight forward of the handlebar stem makes the bike more twitchy as the bag’s weight increases.   Longer mounts that move the bag further forwards must make these effects worse.

I have never tried having a bag on a rack on top of the front wheel but I imagine this might cause the same problems?

You're absolutely right. Most cyclists with their brain in gear try to distribute the weight on a loaded bike equally between the wheels whether they know about the Centre of Gravity and the dynamic couple between the front and rear wheels or not. It's long-established common sense.

But very few know about another movable point, called the Centre of Aerodynamic Pressure, which acts, to simplify matters, through the side profile of the bike, which makes the distribution of surfaces extremely important because it is imperative for the stability of any vehicle that the centre of aerodynamic pressure be behind the centre of gravity.

If you contemplate the side surfaces of the front of the bike and of the rear, you will see that with the rider on board there is just about zero chance of the centre of aerodynamic pressure moving forward. Panniers are put first on the back for a good reason, so is any further loading of the rack. The height of any load with much surface at all also goes on the rear rack first rather than the front, and lowrider pannier are fitted low down because you don't want the dynamic centre of aero pressure to slope downwards towards the back of the bike.

If the cyclist as his only load on the bike except himself fits a rack bag and high up at that, he unsettles the distribution of side surfaces and the stability of the bike in side winds as small as that caused by a hatchback passing him. The bike wants to swap ends because it is quite possible that in addition the front to rear aero couple now runs downwards.

That's what your experienced. Note that in yaw all these forces (vectors) may be ameliorated or enhanced. A good example is a large flat side truck passing close by. With the bike's design side surface and consequently aero handling upset by a possible doubling of the front surface by the rack bag, a point may arrive where you don't know which way the front wheel will break, which adds another layer of uncertainty.

Once, at a crossroad with high hedges on all sides, a gust of wind knocked me off my bike. A trucker stopped and helped me (I hurt a lot -- I'd been travelling at speed) and said, "You're not a blow-in [a recent arrival in the countryside]. You should know better. All the flatsiders [closed truck drivers] know about this corner." I'd been riding there thirty years. I hadn't even thought of the aero CoP because a lot of the aero effects I was used to in motor racing don't matter with a four-wheel vehicle until you're travelling well over the ton and you anyway have large flat surfaces well behind the rear axle. I calculated up the side areas on my bike and instantly discovered that a handlebar bag, while very convenient, is an invitation to road rash in a windy area such as I live in on the River Bandon.

Jobst Brandt, probably the leading theoretician of bikes in the latter half of the 20th century, used to say, "If the front wheel goes, there's nothing you can do. You're gone." It's one reason the centre of pressure and reaction to invisible side forces like crosswinds must remain behind the centre of gravity of the bike under all dynamic conditions, because you can recover from a rear-end upset whereas at the front recovery falls somewhere between extremely difficult and goodbye.

Quote
By comparison I can not feel any negative handling effects with the tyre on the front 1/4 inch bigger than on the rear.

That's hardly surprising; it's a modest change, well within the design parameters for any competent touring bike, which has large reserves of dynamic safety built in. But make the front much wider than the rear, and take the bike out on a fast downhill with curves, and you'll frighten yourself. A bike that turns in sweetly at moderate speed in rush hour traffic will suddenly become a health hazard. And worse with a touring load on it.

For a while, because I just couldn't find a wide rim (24mm across the beads, minimum) actually in stock anywhere, I used a motor built into a narrow front rim with the fat tyre on the fat rim with the Rohloff at the rear. On hilly lanes I'd been riding for decades, it was pretty obvious that the bike was nervous enough for me to cut apex speed from 55kph on the sweeping downhill curves to just over 30kph because the 60mm Big Apples just weren't working the same predictable way any more. Until then I'd declared the difference in the rims "not such a big deal", which was true enough when the referring to riding on the level under 20kph. It was one reason that for my next venture into electrifying the bike, I bought a mid-motor, to move the weight and the motor aero area backwards and downwards -- and to return to my fabulous 24mm rim width all round.
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Non-Thorn Related / Re: +++Rides of 2024+++Add yours here+++
« Last post by RonS on May 22, 2024, 11:11:27 pm »
Lovely ride report and photos, John. Good to hear the post op physical condition is improving.

That video is a hoot. At least, for anyone without first hand experience with the wee devils :)

As for that spot in the sky on the last photo. Are you sure it wasn't a CF-18 from CFB Trenton? The size is about right.
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Non-Thorn Related / Re: +++Rides of 2024+++Add yours here+++
« Last post by Mike Ayling on May 22, 2024, 11:06:00 pm »
https://ridewithgps.com/trips/180810750

Downunda we are in Autumn/Fall but we had a magnificent day yesterday, 4C to 16C , clear sky.

The ride was 80% bike paths, the rest quite suburban roads.

If you can open the RidewithGPS link, the spike was to the coffee shop and back.

Mike
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Thorn General / Re: Mullet nomad mk 2 (26" rear -- 27.5" front)
« Last post by Andyb1 on May 22, 2024, 09:26:28 am »
My personal experience is that an easy way to inadvertently upset a bike’s stability is to fit a handlebar bag.   Without rear panniers it upsets the bike in a X-wind and it’s weight forward of the handlebar stem makes the bike more twitchy as the bag’s weight increases.   Longer mounts that move the bag further forwards must make these effects worse.

I have never tried having a bag on a rack on top of the front wheel but I imagine this might cause the same problems?

I have only been (occasionally) using a handlebar bag for about a year and while it is a useful place for valuables etc I always keep the weight to a minimum.

By comparison I can not feel any negative handling effects with the tyre on the front 1/4 inch bigger than on the rear.

 
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For spoke length, there's no substitute for measuring the ERD of the rim yourself, I know that adds a second postage fee, but it's a lot cheaper than getting it wrong.

It's what I usually do nowadays.

It was easier up to about 20 years ago because I could source rims and spokes locally from a bike shop about 2kms from home.

More recently, I would order rims that the local shop couldn't get via Internet, then get the spokes locally, they had a good stock and would order odd lengths if necessary. But that shop closed a few years ago when the owner retiired.


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