Author Topic: Turning a Nomad into a Carbon Race Bike  (Read 10406 times)

richie thornger

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Turning a Nomad into a Carbon Race Bike
« on: October 20, 2014, 11:56:28 am »
When my backside finally recovers I want to try out riding a much sportier position.
Prior tro touring on Thorns The last bike I cycled regularly was a BMX 20 years previous, so I've never really ridden head down.

Option 1: Buy a dedicated road bike.

Option 2: Put drops on my Nomad and strip everything possible to make it lighter. I realise that's like trying to turn a Ford Transit Van into a Formula 1 car but I love my Rohloff.

What are the main things I could do to the Nomad to lose weight?

Obviously Racks off and lighter wheels spring to mind. Is there much else I can do?

When I weighed my naked Nomad but including racks it was 20kg!!!

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy

jags

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Re: Turning a Nomad into a Carbon Race Bike
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2014, 12:29:33 pm »
the angles are all wrong for a fast bike wheelbase to long.
if your after speed get a good road bike aluminium or carbon good et of wheels and your away in a hack.
i might concider selling you my Raleigh 753 frame 28 years old still perfect and probably the best bike you'll ever ride.
things i do when i'm feckin broke.

jags.

leave the nomad as it is. ;)

richie thornger

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Re: Turning a Nomad into a Carbon Race Bike
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2014, 01:01:20 pm »
but what about the Rohloff Jags :)

I'm not after speed so much as just a lighter better positioned bike.

I thought some magical Thorn Thairy might have a secret :)
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy

Danneaux

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Re: Turning a Nomad into a Carbon Race Bike
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2014, 02:52:02 pm »
Richie,

My own Nomad Mk2 is also a 20kg bike. I like it very much h setup with compact drop handlebars at saddle height.

Given you already own a Nomad, I think you'd gain more by taking less cargo...stripping down the lot you carry.

All the best,

Dan.

richie thornger

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Re: Turning a Nomad into a Carbon Race Bike
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2014, 03:15:17 pm »
I think you mean taking NO cargo Dan ;)
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy

Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop

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Re: Turning a Nomad into a Carbon Race Bike
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2014, 03:30:32 pm »
Far better to buy a Thorn Raven Sport tour frame if we still have one in your size or change everything to a Thorn Mercury frame.. I supose it depends if your touring days are over or not?

richie thornger

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Re: Turning a Nomad into a Carbon Race Bike
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2014, 04:38:07 pm »
Hi Dave, OK, it's an idea.
My Nomad is a MK 1 and a half :) The MK 1 S&S with Rohloff.

So my choices in order of cost are:
Option 1: Buy a complete new Rohloff equipped drop bar Thorn bike.
Option 2: Buy a new / used complete lighter weight Thorn minus a rear wheel.
Option 3: Buy a new / used lighter weight Thorn frame and fork set plus some drop bars.

Option 2: Might be a winner.

Is their anything I need to be aware of regards slotting my old wheel into a different bike?
Mine has the Ex Box Rohloff connector.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 04:55:14 pm by richie thornger »
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Danneaux

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Re: Turning a Nomad into a Carbon Race Bike
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2014, 04:56:16 pm »
Quote
I think you mean taking NO cargo Dan
Well...I was thinking of Danneaux's Cargo Conundrum, a frequent topic of my on-bike thoughts while riding.

At any given time while touring, I *don't* use better than 90% of the stuff I've taken. It is there for *when* I need it (i.e. sleeping bag, pad, and tent for night) and *in case* I need it (jackets, fleece, first aid kit).

Right now, the livingroom floor looks like an outdoor store exploded in it. I've laid out a lot of my stuff and am reorganizing it in a modular fashion so I can quickly assemble a kit for the next tour of whatever length. For example, there's the stoves: Coleman Multi-fuel for my desert tours when the only possible fuel resupply is unleaded pump petrol. My beer can penny stove and ultralight pot kit for overnighters and hot lunches on long day rides, and a sub-USD$17 very compact iso-butane burner/pot setup with an all-season fuel mix for in-between uses. There's the Mini-Trangia setup for as well. Sleeping bags are divided into warmish and coldish, with one bag down bag good down to freezing, the other to -15°C comfortably. Big and compact first aid kits (needed the sewing kit for Danneaux repairs on the last tour, so a modest version will be incorporated into each), big and small liquid-fuel bottles for white gas/naptha/petrol/meths, etc.

The trouble is, if one is touring for an extended period in all seasons (or something that simulates it, like desert travel with wide variations between day/night temps or big changes in altitude or on different continents/latitudes), you almost certainly must carry for the extremes...and that's too much when you don't need it. Depends on proximity to population and resupply as well. Through-hikers handle such things with mail drops for send-home and resupply. That should work for cycling as well, but at US postal rates, it might sometimes be better to abandon or give away small things that could be repurchased almost as cheaply later.

A major advance for me was to go with the smartphone. It effectively replaced a lot of stuff -- the cameras (didn't use my Sony travel-zoom or the GoPro), radio (Internet radio when near wifi), netbook/laptop, books (used e-reader apps), and data backup (spare 64GB SD cards and 3TB portable hard drive. Its GPS was more often handy on roads than the dedicated Garmin I brought for what was mostly an on-road tour rather than cross-country through roadless terrain. No need for my 4G LTE portable hotspot or for tethering without wifi. Charging became a non-issue at standard USB supply rates.

I'm still working at trying to make the light/compact "warm weather" sleeping bag work in colder conditions by piling on the clothing, but it isn't the same as having a warm bag to begin with when the temps really plummet toward 0°F/-18°C. I've got my clothing pretty well dialed in, and have managed to recently find a source for traditional wool cycling tights without chamois. Joy! That'll help a lot toward extending my temperature range. Sometimes, adding things can save weight as well. For example, by adding lightweight underwear I can wash out under a water bottle and air-dry in 15 minutes, I can wear my cycling shorts for as much as two weeks (cue the collective "Ewww!" chorus) when drying the shorts chamois is impossible/impractical overnight. Alternating riding shorts and airing them wrongside out in the sunshine eliminated or prevented any odor. This means fewer clothes overall. Quarter-socks (running socks) take half the room/weight because I'm not packing the shaft of the sock. Last summer's tour was generally warm enough to forego dedicated rain gear in favor of a lightweight wind jacket so I got wet but didn't chill while riding; I changed to dry clothes for sleeping in the tent at night or rode them dry after the rain stopped. The alternative was to get as wet from sweat inside my rain gear in the wet and humidity of River Country. I still used the rain gear on cold 3°C mornings.

One thing I added promptly on returning home was an Ortlieb exterior folding mesh pannier pocket, so I could store my wet things outside the dry interior of my bags until I could wring the clothes out at camp to dry or put on wet the next day. There's no point switching to dry clothes for riding if they're only going to get wet again. I save the dry ones for sleeping in at night or for dry weather the next day while the wet ones dry atop the rear rack or on a line in camp or over a tub/in a shower at lodging. Both strategies reduce the number of needed clothes, also saving weight and bulk.

The nice thing about lightening overall weight by lightening load is I can usually do it cost-free and fairly easily by leaving stuff home. *Must* I take it vs *Might I need it* becomes the determining factor. Still, compared to my lighter bike there's a 5.5kg difference in bike weight to make up for in cargo before I break even. A person can go ultralight like my long-admired Iik ( http://ultralightcycling.blogspot.com/ ), or go the other way and take the lot, which in turn requires a sturdier bike to carry it all. In my case for desert touring, water is the deciding factor, followed by extra food stores. I'm away from commercial resources, towns, stores, people, and in a harsh dry environment without much in the way of available potable water. Gotta carry more in water and food weight than what the lighter bike could manage...and would overtax it and its much lighter, narrower-tired 700C wheels.

Richie, if you could keep your Nomad and go with something lighter and more portable and could have someone ship you the bike and kit you need for your next tour leg and store the ones you don't...that would be the ideal, I think, in terms of use. Trouble is, it incurs extra expense and a host of other problems, including finding what you need was left in "the other place, with the other bike". It could range from merely annoying to neat agony if that happened.

Maybe the most effective way to save weight is to go with a partner. Tools and lodging (tent, anyway) can be shared as well as cooking gear, stove, fuel and even food, cutting the weight for each by a substantial amount. I was looking at the lot on the livingroom floor and thinking, "Hmm. All someone else would need to bring is their own clothes and toiletries and sleeping bag and pad; the rest of the lot is already here". That gives either the option to split equally or for another, less well-equipped or less-experienced/less fit person to enjoy touring at minimal effort and expense, the weight difference serving as a fitness equalizer. It's a great solution if you find someone compatible and don't kill each other.

Lots to think about here, Richie.

All the best,

Dan.

richie thornger

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Re: Turning a Nomad into a Carbon Race Bike
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2014, 04:57:40 pm »
Sorry dan, perhaps i've not explained properly. This bike wil NOT be for touring. Just for road riding.
The thing is I want to stay Rohloff.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy

Danneaux

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Re: Turning a Nomad into a Carbon Race Bike
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2014, 05:01:39 pm »
Quote
Sorry dan, perhaps i've not explained properly. This bike wil NOT be for touring. Just for road riding.
The thing is I want to stay Rohloff.
Ah! That changes everything!  :D
Quote
Is their anything I need to be aware of regards slotting my old wheel into a different bike?
My two cent'sworth:

• Shift-box compatibility
• Wheel diameter compatibility (i.e. in the case of Nomad vs. Mercury)
• Tire width (wrt to mudguard clearance and stay/fork clearance)

Best,

Dan.

richie thornger

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Re: Turning a Nomad into a Carbon Race Bike
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2014, 05:04:13 pm »
Tyres will be changed.

So a Mercury is a 700cc so that's a no.
My old Raven had a different box to my Nomad. does that mean all ravens are out?

Am I running out of options :)


I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy

jags

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Re: Turning a Nomad into a Carbon Race Bike
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2014, 05:12:54 pm »
just buy a road bike richie,
a friend of mine has  araven sports tour  rohloff cracking bike for sure,
but if he's riding in the group or with a few lads he takes his carbon road bike.
few years back when i had the sherpa i  took it out a few times with the group all these guys are roadies i could stay with them for the first part of the spin but once the  pace went up yours truly came home on his own knackered. ::)

get a road bike .

anto.

rualexander

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Re: Turning a Nomad into a Carbon Race Bike
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2014, 05:22:57 pm »
Easy enough to put your ex box rohloff wheel into a frame not designed for it (e.g. Raven), just means you have to run the cables a bit differently.
I was just wondering the other day about how much work would be involved swapping the Rohloff between different bikes with different wheel sizes. Could you get a spare hub shell and build up a 700c wheel for example, and then just swap the gear internal unit as and when required, would it just be a case of keeping a stock of the necessary seals and oil?
Or would it be easier to dismantle and rebuild the wheel each time?

richie thornger

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Re: Turning a Nomad into a Carbon Race Bike
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2014, 05:44:53 pm »
Jags, your's is of course the most sensible idea. I just don't want to back to fiddly gears :)

I remember how I felt when i first had my raven Tour and how much I enjoyed hills vs the mountain bike that I had before it.

I AM NOT A CYCLIST :)

The Rohloff was more like having a BMX then a racer that's why I love it so much.



I really do think I would not have gone near bicycle touring if it wasn't for Rohloff gears. For me it made geared cycling enjoyable.
Laugh at me all you want, I don't mind. I can't even spell derailler let alone align one.

The seals and oil sounds like a recipe for disaster in my world :) I'll forget to do something and ruin the whole hub.
Your idea may be an option for someone coming to this thread a later date Ru but for me changing wheels is about as complicated as I would want to get :)
I could probably deal with the connector box if its just a case of adding in some of the connectors I had on my Raven.

So what is the lightest Thorn 26" Rohloff frame set and most importantly how light is it. I'm guessing its A Raven Tour Sport???

Whenever I come across an article about weight weenie road bikes the first thing a lot of people come out with is...lose the weight off your body it's a lot cheaper.

I've now been a vegetarian for 2 months and the weight is flying off me. I've lost 7kg in the 5 weeks I've been home, there will be nothing left of me soon so I don't think I've got much scope in that department :)
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy

Danneaux

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