Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: Peddrov on February 18, 2013, 06:12:04 pm
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Hello, having gathered quite a lot of information in this forum already, it's time for my first post here!
I'm considering getting a Raven. Two ravens actually, since my gf also needs a bike. I've done quite a lot of research and I think I know mostly what I want, but I still have some questions and hopefully somebody here knows the answers :)
1) In general: How set-in-stone are the components you can choose from in the brochures? Is it possible to get handlebar grips or saddles that aren't listed there? That is, other than just paying the full price of these items on top of the normal price of course.
2) Rims: I weigh ~70kg and my gf weighs about 50kg. We will carry (light) camping load on these, but usually this should be about 15kg for me and less than 10kg for her. The most I can foresee us carrying would be 25-30kg for me and 20kg for her. We do however plan to take these off-road (nothing technical, but could be rough gravel, washboard etc.). Would the Anda rim be overkill, seeing as it is recommended for the Nomad, which can carry 60kg of gear and (I guess) 100kg of human flesh and bones? If not, would it make sense to get it only for the rear wheel, and say a Grizzly rim in the front? Are Thorn flexible enough to cater for such silly wishes? ;)
3) The Raven brochure states that the C2 forks can take 2.15" tires. Does anyone know if this is with or without mudguards?
4) Anybody been to Bridgwater? I'm in Edinburgh, but might consider trekking all the way down if Thorn have a good selection of different frame sizes and handlebars/components built up for test rides. Is that the case? Would it be worth it?
Can't think of anything else right now ;)
Thanks!
Philipp
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Hi Philipp
Welcome to the forum and it must be an exciting time for you.
I am sure you will get lots of replies but based on what I have experienced:
1) Thorn will build the bike how you want with bing able to cherry pick any of the components you want.
2) I would also add into the mix probably the most important variable into the wheel choice decision and that is riding style. If you are a very carefull rider and good at obfuscating bad potholes and you want to ride sprightly then you could and should go for a lighter wheelset. If on the other hand (like me) able to find the worst potholes and hit them just right and you are not planning on braking any speed records I would go for the andre rims every time. You could build up two different spec wheels but I probably would not bother. They tyre choice will make the biggest difference to "how she rides" so maybe a heavy set of touring tyres and a lighter set for good light days would be a better way to go.
3) About tyre clearance I have had 2.1 Ice spicer pros in there with guards with no issues but it is on the older Tour so not sure if the clearances and fork are the same.
4) I would definetly reccomned a visit. Get the right size and the bike specced just as you want.
Best of luck
Andy
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Hi Philipp! Welcome to the Forum!
Your first question is the same one I asked before ordering Sherpa. Thorn kindly advised the entire SJS Cycles catalog was available to me for equipping the bicycle, but at catalog cost. The "package options" offered in the Thorn brochure have such good prices because the components are bought in bulk and Thorn as an OEM kindly passes along the savings at build time.
My only off-list, SJSC-sourced item was an M:Part carbon-fiber chainstay guard, which Thorn gladly installed during my build. It is worth noting while I paid the catalog cost for it, I was spared postage because that was included in shipping the bike. This amounted to a little discount on the part for me as an international buyer, plus the VAT was waived as well.
Very best of luck to you and your girlfriend in selecting and building your bikes, and thanks for including us in asking your questions. This is a helpful Forum, and it is always exciting when new bikes are under consideration. Looking forward to hearing more as your selection narrows and we await that wonderful Day of Arrival with you!
Best,
Dan.
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Its worth visiting Thorn to get fitted for the bike but you are unlikely to actually be able to test ride anything as pretty much everything is built to order, that's why you get 100 days to return it for a full refund if you don't like it.
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It is definitely worth a visit. They do have a number of different bikes in varying sizes that you can take out for a good test ride.
The advice you will receive on size spec etc is also invaluable. You will need to make an appointment but it will be worth the time and effort.
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It is definitely worth a visit. They do have a number of different bikes in varying sizes that you can take out for a good test ride.
The advice you will receive on size spec etc is also invaluable. You will need to make an appointment but it will be worth the time and effort.
I'm afraid that they didn't have any available to test ride when I went.
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Here is my first post to the forum. I visited Bridgwater last week to buy a Raven. I flew down from Edinburgh to Bristol for £55 return. This was part of a holiday weekend in Bristol, with the added bonus of buying a new bike. I'm going to drive down in April to pick up the bike, head for Oxford and do some cycling there as part of my Easter holiday. And not be too far from Bridgwater if the bike needs any fine tuning after its first few miles.
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...do some cycling there as part of my Easter holiday. And not be too far from Bridgwater...
Hi stuartieboy! Welcome to the Forum! You'd not be too far from Exmoor National Park with all to see and do there as well: http://www.exmoor-nationalpark.gov.uk/
Sounds like a lovely bike pick-up and holiday ahead for you come April. Congratulations in advance on your soon-to-be Thorn ownership.
Best,
Dan.
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When I purchased my Raven Sports Tour in 2011, I wanted front and rear dynamo lights that Thorn did not do, this was no problem as I sourced them myself from Germany and Thorn fitted them as part of the build with no additional charge for labour so If you do want something a bit different it should not be an issue.
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Here is my first post to the forum. I visited Bridgwater last week to buy a Raven. I flew down from Edinburgh to Bristol for £55 return. This was part of a holiday weekend in Bristol, with the added bonus of buying a new bike. I'm going to drive down in April to pick up the bike, head for Oxford and do some cycling there as part of my Easter holiday. And not be too far from Bridgwater if the bike needs any fine tuning after its first few miles.
Congrats from a fellow Raven owner.
Hope to see some snaps when the time comes.
Us bird fanciers must stick together.
;)
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Phillip Welcome!
I am just South of Edinburgh and have a Raven Tour 2009. I am 174cm tall and about 73kg and went for the 512L size which I find ideal (best to check the equivalent size in the current Raven models though). You are welcome to contact me if you want to try out the bike for size. SJS would be only too happy to advise on final sizing for you and your gf of course. The Raven is an excellent bike.
Your questions ...
1: I agree with other members that SJS would probably add and subtract components that you wanted on the bike, and as Dan said, it all comes with one shipping cost.
2: The Rigida Andra is an great rim. Having cycled the Borders pot holed roads (!) and rough tracks, and along Edinburgh's cobbled streets, it would be an excellent choice. If you plan to do some washerboard and off road with even light touring gear, even more so. For commuting and day-to-day use I put on 26x1.75 Pasela Tourguard tyres, and for rougher conditions, Marathon XRs 26x2. The latter will handle rougher conditions very well and the Andra rim is good with both sizes of tyres.
3: As above the 26x2 tyres are fine and the forks would probably take 26x2.15. My mudguards are 55mm and I would not like to go larger than 2 inch tyres with them.
4: About 3 years ago I was in the Bridgwater area and decided to drop in without an appointment. After my apologies for just turning up they did say that I could test ride a Nomad they had. I was sold on Thorns! If I had made an appointment there would probably have been more bikes to test. A couple of years later I decided that the Raven Tour would be adequate for my future touring use. It would have been better to test ride one before buying but everything worked out in the end. So yes, a trip down would definitely be worth it after your specific requirements have been fleshed out via email and phone.
Congratulations again on the decision to go for a Raven. I am very happy with mine.
Looking forward to the photos when you finally get the bikes!
Richard
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Wow, I didn't expect that many replies! Thanks everyone, very helpful indeed. It might be a while still before I decide to take the plunge, but if/when I do, I will post some pictures for sure.
Richard, that's great, I might take you up on your offer, especially since I'm almost exactly your size. I will send you a PM.
Thanks
Philipp
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Philipp,
If you want to try a slightly larger 560L Rohloff Thorn, I am also just south of Edinburgh by Dalkeith.
The bike fits me at around 180cm tall and weighing 78Kg.
I have a relaxed stance on it.
Have fun choosing that bike.
Julian.
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And I have a Raven too. A wee bit further South from Edinburgh, near Dumfries.
Also pleased to let you view and try.
587L frame - quite large.
Looks like we have a group of Ravens in the area.
Not sure I like the term 'Unkindness' but that's what Wikipedia throws up.
( as well as congress and conspiracy)
;)
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Looks like we have a group of Ravens in the area.
Not sure I like the term 'Unkindness' but that's what Wikipedia throws up.
( as well as congress and conspiracy)
Perhaps "flock" applies for birdy-bikes? Given the universally kind and helpful responses, I'd say "birds of a feather" are flocking together! :D
Best,
Dan. (...who briefly owned a Birdy folder and didn't know what to call two of them)
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Congrats from a fellow Raven owner.
Hope to see some snaps when the time comes.
Us bird fanciers must stick together.
;)
not sure that I said anything about being a bird fancier or is that cycle speak for something ?
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not sure that I said anything about being a bird fancier or is that cycle speak for something ?
Raven = Thorn's designation for models equipped with the Rohloff hub, a specific model, and Rohloff's company mascot. Raven is thus sometimes used as shorthand for Rohloff-equipped Thorns.
If one likes Rohloff-equipped Thorns (Ravens), then one must be a "bird fancier" by default! ;D
No worries. Just us, being silly and happy with our bikes.
All the best,
Dan.
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Oh, I get the birdie gag now. Matt2matt2000 might be interested to know that I used to live in Dumfries, still have family there, and will be there the week after Easter for a weekend. I now live in Dundee where there is another Raven owner across the park from me. It was him who sold me on Rohloffs.
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I am 25 miles from Dumfries on the road to Ayr. Give me a pm if you would like to drop in for a spin.
Matt
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I just booked an appointment at Bridgwater. Looks like this is happening ;)
Oh, by the way, there are fairly cheap connections from Edinburgh to Bridgwater via Birmingham and Bristol if you go with Megatrain/Megabus. Looking at only 30 Pound return. Just in case somebody else is considering this.
Philipp
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Best of luck! I am sure you will have lots to report on your return
Andy
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I just booked an appointment at Bridgwater. Looks like this is happening ;)
Oh, by the way, there are fairly cheap connections from Edinburgh to Bridgwater via Birmingham and Bristol if you go with Megatrain/Megabus. Looking at only 30 Pound return. Just in case somebody else is considering this.
Philipp
Well done, exciting stuff.
By the way, how did you manage to come up with the deal with Megatrain/Megabus as when I looked on the website I couldn't find that option. I'm not au fait with the site and can't seem to get the options I want from the departure and destination lists. Is it a case of having to phone them?
Iain
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It's a train from Edinburgh to Birmingham (5 to 7 Pounds one way) and a bus from Birmingham to Bristol (1 to 8 Pounds one way), you can book both through their website. Then it's just a regular off-peak day return train ticket (9 Pounds) from Bristol to Bridgwater, from any of the normal train websites. You have to be a bit flexible with your schedule, because these Edinburgh-Birmingham train fares are only for some days of the week and only for one train per day. Also, I will have to stay in Birmingham for 2 nights, but I'll probably Couchsurf, and this way I will have some time to explore Bristol.
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Thanks for the info :), I shall do some further investigation. I was looking at flying to Bristol which isn't to bad if you're a wee bit flexible.
Iain.
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Heading down to Bridgwater tomorrow. Very excited. Any tips how to make the most out of it?
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Sit on and test ride as many different combinations as possible would be my plan
Andy
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Heading down to Bridgwater tomorrow. Very excited. Any tips how to make the most out of it?
Ride home on a new Thorn !
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lol @brummie
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Went there yesterday, very happy I did. Got to test ride the Raven and the Nomad. Both bikes feel great. The Rohloff... well I am slightly less impressed than I thought I would be but that might just be my having too high expectations ;)
Got a quote now and will order a bike soon. I saw someone riding a sherpa later that day in bristol, so I'll take that as an omen :P
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I saw someone riding a sherpa later that day in bristol, so I'll take that as an omen
Hi Philipp!
Glad to hear you made it to Bridgwater for a test ride or two. By any chance, did you try riding a Sherpa Mk3? The frame is the same as the new Raven, but intended for derailleurs rather than Rohloff. If the Rohloff underwhelmed, this would be a way to get the same basic bicycle performance at a lesser price.
Best,
Dan. (...who can sense the new-bike excitement in the air!)
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Hi Dan, I didn't ride a Sherpa, I imagine it behaves very similar to a Raven apart from shifting gears. I will still go with the Rohloff, one reason is the 100 day guarantee, that only comes with Rohloff bikes. If after that time I love the bike but not the hub, I can still go Sherpa.
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Good strategy, Philipp! I think you'll be very happy with the Rohloff, and if not...well, there's the Sherpa, identical but for drivetrain.
Can't lose! ;D
Really looking forward to your new arrival, with full details and perhaps some Gallery photos!
Best,
Dan.
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The deed is done.
Many thanks - £100 deposit paid. Your bike will be finished early May.
I'll post pictures once it's here. Exciting times!
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Congratulations! I now have about 6000 miles on my Nomad and continue to be delighted. Solid and comfortable. The perfect bike for going places - exploration and adventure... even if it is just a ride around the neighborhood!
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The deed is done.
Quote
Many thanks - £100 deposit paid. Your bike will be finished early May.
Hi Philipp!
Wonderful news! All will be well once you survive the time-dilation process that makes the next 5-6 weeks feel like years. :D
Very exciting, indeed! Can't wait to see photos after arrival. Any chance of a "preview" for us in terms of your chosen specs?
Happy days!
Best,
Dan. (...who thought he's never survive the wait after placing his order)
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Any chance of a "preview" for us in terms of your chosen specs?
Sure!
It will be a red Raven 530L with C2 fork, Flat track handlebars with Ergon Biokork grips and SJSC bar ends. A sprung Brooks flyer saddle to soften the ride, Pitlock skewers for peace of mind, a Tubus Airy rack to appease the weight weenie in me, 3 bottle cages because I drink a lot, A530 SPD/platform pedals for easy touring and commuting. Also XT breaks, black Hope front, black Rohloff rear hub, KMC X1 chain, square taper UN55 bottom bracket, Thorn chainset with 17/40 gearing. The rims are Andra CSS in the back and Grizzly CSS in the front (just so I have my own little quirky something :P) with Marathon Supreme 2.0 tyres on top and surrounded by a pair of SKS 55 mudguards.
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Ooooh! Sounds wonderful, Philipp!
Very much looking forward to seeing this one in photos. Sounds a bit like a new Raven spec'd to old RavenSportTour specs, with emphasis on the Sport!
You have made a rare but very thoughtful choice in choosing the Grizzly CSS rim. The Andras have thicker and heavier sidewalls anyway, but the thinner Grizzly can really take good advantage of the hard CSS coating to give lighter weight *and* durability, as mentioned by others on the Forum. As for running the lighter rim on the front, it carries less weight and it is generally easier to steer clear of obstacles at the front, only to hit them square-on at the rear (this is even more true with a tandem). Sounds like a great choice!
Best,
Dan. (...who is now counting the days along with you)
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Sounds a bit like a new Raven spec'd to old RavenSportTour specs, with emphasis on the Sport!
Kind of, it's a hybrid: RT-y back (frame, heavy rear wheel, touring saddle, rack with 30kg capacity) with RST-y front (light fork & front wheel) and allrounder tyres (little profile but wide).
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This is the 1st time I've looked at the new raven brochure. I see they've ditched the idea of the behind-the-forks front brake. This is a good move in my opinion. I think you could describe the behind-the-forks brakes as a solution looking for a problem, and worse, I feel they give more judder than "normal" brakes.
Your spec sounds good, I like how youve put in the odd rims just to be a wee bit different.
thanks
steve (owner of rst with behind-the-forks brakes!)
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Hi Steve!
Thinking about the idea of having the brakes behind the fork...
Placing the brake there means under braking, the brake posts, caliper arms and pads all tend to draw toward the rim, rather than away, as when they're mounted ahead of the fork. The fork serves as its own brake booster without need to add one.
Looking at the braking on Sherpa compared to that on the Nomad, it seems to work out that way in practice.
My guess is this also works better if the fork has heavy gauge blades, as on the Nomad, which seems to be the only model where the brakes are still behind the fork. It is also Thorn's heaviest-duty, expedition touring bike. In that application, I've found it works great for me with extremely heavy loads.
Speculation again, but I think the range of lighter fork options on the Raven was also a factor. The lighter forks likely wouldn't work as well with rear brakes, and to have some setup with brakes on the front and others on the rear rear would prevent easy switching between them.
Best,
Dan. (...whose remote viewing does not always have clear reception)
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Well, it's Good Friday and I'm picking up my new Raven next Tuesday. I'm starting to get a bit excited. Is this normal? I've got a small list of questions to ask when I pick up the bike as well as one or two bits of trim still to be added. Re Pitlock skewers in previous post ; what are they and how do they work? Cheers,
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Re Pitlock skewers in previous post ; what are they and how do they work? Cheers,
They are security skewers replacing the QR skewers in the front and back wheel (and in my case, the topcap too). They can only be opened with one of 256 propriety pitlock keys. Basically they mean you only need one U-Lock for the frame and your wheels are locked to the frame automatically. There are probably ways to defeat them (nothing is fail-proof), but I figured if someone has the right tools and knowledge for this, then they certainly would have the tools and knowledge to defeat a cable protecting my tires. So it comes down to pitlock vs carrying two U-locks and the latter is simply unpractical for commuting and prohibitive on tour.
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Thanks very much Peddrov. I will investigate further.
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Thanks very much Peddrov. I will investigate further.
My second hand Raven came with pitlocks.
No probs at all with them but I sometimes fret I will loose the key.
I do have x2 and spares can be bought but........
:-\
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This is all very helpful, Peddrov--thanks! Over the next couple of months I'll be finalizing my Raven Tour specs, and your wheel choice in particular has given me something new to think about. Sara at SJS had suggested Zac rims when I visited in mid-March. I'll also look into a Zac/Grizzly CSS combination, as my touring is likely to be mainly on tarmac with occasional good-quality gravel, and this combination (with 1.75 tires) could be a nice setup.
Will also consider a Pitlock package (hubs & seatpost). Although I've had good luck with my components over the years--none stolen yet, although I've lost 2 city & road bikes :-( -- Murphy's Law + an expensive touring machine suggest the Pitlocks are worth close consideration.
Best of luck with your new bike!
John
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Don't think a seatpost pitlock will fit a thorn seatpost. Its designed as a coller that clamps onto the frame where as on thorn bikes I don't think this will work as the coller that clamps the seat post is an intigrel part of the frame.
pitlock make a clamp that goes at the top of your saddle that deterrs people from nicking the saddle from the seat post.
An alternative option is to get your saddle height set correctly then superglue a ball bearing into the seatpost clamp on the frame. This can be removed but takes a while with a needle but it means you need to be sure of your saddle height and not wish to adjust it in future.
pitlock make a replacement top cap that stops someone unboting making off with the whole front end of the bike.
I have gone with F&R pitlock skewers and a pitlock top cap.
Ewan
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Don't think a seatpost pitlock will fit a thorn seatpost.
That's correct, I had asked Lisa to supply the pitlock set with seatpost protection, but it wouldn't fit, so now I will have the same set as you.
John, FWIW, I have ZACs on my current touring/mountain bike and they have been very reliable. I mostly ride tarmac, but they do have to cope with this every now and then, and cope they do: http://ect.bell-labs.com/who/pfps/trips/2005-07/S_IMG_0308.JPG
I don't think the ZAC comes in a CSS version, so if you want a Grizzly CSS rim for your front tire, you'll need different brake pads for rear and front. Might not be a major issue, just something to be aware of. Alternatively, the Grizzly comes in a non CSS version too, which saves about £40 per wheel I think.
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That's most helpful, Peddrov -- many thanks. I'd thought of the issue of different brake pads fore & aft if I use a CSS rim on the front. Not a big deal, really--just a matter of extra spares. Might also just go with ZACs front & back, & your experience with those is very valuable too. My current bike, an Eclipse, has (now) ten-year-old 700c Alex rims, which have been completely trouble-free.
Still thinking about the Pitlock possibilities, as well as alternatives for keeping hubs & wheels attached to the bike...
Cheers,
J.
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Bike is all built and will be here on Tuesday. Sweet!
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Bike is all built and will be here on Tuesday. Sweet!
Sweet indeed, Philipp! Now, time becomes elastic with the next six days taking 6 years to arrive! :-\
The good news is, once it arrives, the next six years will seem like six days! ;D
Many happy rides ahead to you! (and of course, a request for photos After it arrives ;) )
Best,
Dan.
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It's here! A real beauty of a bike. I took it out for a quick spin this morning and it rides smoothly, stable, and (since it's a red bike) fast. There was a small issue I was having with the grips / handlebar setup and I talked to Lisa and Andy this morning, they were very helpful and sorted me out by sending a different grip. I will take some snapshots as soon as I have installed this... if my phone decides to start working normally that is.
Really hope I will get a chance to test it in more depth this weekend.
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Yaaaaaaaaaaaay! Good on you, Philipp!
Now, go put some miles on, do! Can't wait for the in-depth reports and photos to follow.
Congratulations!
Best,
Dan.