Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Lighting and Electronics => Topic started by: jags on October 09, 2013, 05:11:13 pm
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http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gallery/article/garmin-edge-touring-plus-first-look-38624/2 lads what do you think of this gps anyone got one.it's this or the etrek 20.
if i take up audax cycling next year i would like to be able to upload the intire route on either of those gps units .so which would be best
and easiest to use of course
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Jags - I have a Garmin 800 which is the model I understand the Tour version is based on. If I have this correctly, the Tour is an 800 base unit with none of the additional 'bundle items' so no extra mapping, no extra memory card, no HRM and no Cadence sensor.
I had a quick look at the base unit maps on a Garmin show stand and decided I very much preferred the OS 1:50000 set which came in with one of the more expensive bundles. I also went for the HRM and Cadence sensor - mostly because I like the analytical side of our Sunday Morning whizzy bike runs - but also because it was a good deal in a local bike shop.
On my Thorn I don't bother with a cadence sensor, and sometimes not the HRM.
I guess the value of a bundled map set over the included base map is partly down to opinion and partly whatever is available for your part of the world. When we went to Jersey in July I just downloaded a free map of the island and had no problems with that - quite how I would have got on downloading a much bigger area I don't know.
In use I find the screen is a little small for reading the map as I go along, but the turn by turn directions are ok. Just be sure to set them on for the route you are following. They might not be on by default. I turn the alarms off on mine as otherwise it buzzes & nags about cadence (too slow) HRM (too high) and off route when I take a detour.
I have used mine on SkyRides and would be happy to use it to follow a route I was unfamiliar with.
Garmin Connect (www site mapping utility) is not particularly friendly for route planning, but the after-ride route analysis is good, (just my opinion!) I find map my ride or ride with GPS easier to use for planning routes. Loading a route to the Garmin is easy - just copy the file into the new routes folder and it will be 'loaded' when you select it for the first time. You can store several routes and so divide a tour into days etc. Probably worth checking the tour does have an extra memory card slot - just in case you want to store extra maps and/or routes.
I've not had any battery issues, a normal 3 or 4 hour Sunday morning might get to ~60% charge from full. I tend to swap screens quite often so I probably over use the battery.
Most of the mapping sites I have tried work well with routes stored in mine, so when I go out around a familiar loop I let it keep tabs on where I go and how fast and then review the data when I get back. I tend to use Strava as, being an engineer, I have failed to grow up, act like a 10 year old (occasionally) and there are a couple of local hills I like to test myself on .... que story re a visit to my GP about chest pains .... it was acid reflux, and he assured me I am quite healthy for my age, apart from a delusion about to racing my son up hills!
The non map displays can be extensively configured, I have a couple with most of the data displayed, and one with just three rows (Speed, Cadence, Heart Rate) that I can read without my glasses. I use an extened mount on the whizzy bike, so the unit sits in front of the stem/bar clamp bolts, the included band-on plastic mounts are fine on the Thorn stem.
The only other niggle I can think of is the HRM and Cadence sensors occasionally double readings, I can't actually pedal at 240rpm, nor can my heart manage 225+BPM ;-)
I'm not sure how well this will work but this Sunday's figures are here: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/386391477
This was a 'social' ride so I was not really 'going for it' ... honest!
hope that helps
sdg.
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If you are planing on doing the longer audax rides (over 200km) then one issue is battery life, which is where the eTrex models come into their own.
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Thanks lads i think my mind is made up on the etrek 20 i like the idea of aa battery.
i have a polor heatrate monitor on my bike only use it for speed and distance the heart rate was doing my head in ;D ;D so dont use it anymore as for cadence i know how to pedal a bike ::)
my friend was selling me a 705 but i think he was asking a bit to much for it, so its a gps that gonna keep me on the right track i'm after no more than that.
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Hi Anto,
I have had a Garmin 705 for about 4 years now and I find it pretty good for Audax.
It does everything I need in the way of routing and keeping me up to date with riding time/paused time/ average speed/gradient/HR and way too much other stuff and has a battery life of around 15 hours if I turn off the alerts and don't use the backlighting overly much.
We tend to use Bikely or bikeroutetoaster to plot routes and both are easy enough to use and to download courses to your GPS:
Here is an example of a bikeroutetoaster route
http://www.bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=596570
As you can see, it also provides a cue sheet, which can be useful.
Bikely is very similar:
http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Cycle-into-Spring
Other mapping programs are good as well. Log onto a couple and start plotting some routes. It's a lot of fun and it's free!
Cheers,
pj
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I used it to record my daily track over three months this summer. Battery life (I used rechargeable eneloops) was good with at least two whole days, sometimes three days before recharging. In my experience thats about 24 hours of continual use.
The internal memory size is good too - 91 days of tracks took up only 21 Mb of space. Total internal memory is 1.7Gb. Specs here ...
https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/outdoor/handheld/etrex-30/prod87774.html
Wet weather use was not a problem. There were about 6 days of really heavy rain, many days of 36 Deg C and more, and some very humid conditions. It continued to work well even without a cover.
I went for the eTrex 30 which has the altitude function as it was not much more expensive. It is light, small and solidly built.
One more vote for the eTrex range!
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If you do get the etrex jags, be aware that it is worthwhile getting lithium batteries for it - they give noticably greater battery life.
BTW anyone know why I could never find anylithium batteries in Italy? In Australia any supermarket will stock them. The best I could find in Italy was 'superalkaline' (never hear of this here, just alkaline).
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Thanks again lads amazing stuff gps,yeah i think i'm gonna go with etrek20 good price on it from handtec,have to wait a while though ::).
my buddy has now decided to keep his 705 can't blame him.
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jags
Forgot to add ... it is a good idea to buy some screen protectors for your new Garmin. They don't cost much but are worth it as my Garmin eTrex 30 screen protector was totally scratched to bits after the tour but the screen is fine. I have just replaced the protector and it is as good as new.
The ones I used are here ...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-x-Anti-Scratch-Screen-Protectors-for-Garmin-eTrex-20-30-Display-Savers-/190638657594?
They work very well.
Cheers
PS: il padrone - I would not hesitate using the lithium batteries in really cold weather as they last a lot longer in those conditions. On a long tour they could become expensive. Re-chargeables are the best option I found for long-term touring.
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;) thanks again most appreciated.
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PS: il padrone - I would not hesitate using the lithium batteries in really cold weather as they last a lot longer in those conditions. On a long tour they could become expensive. Re-chargeables are the best option I found for long-term touring.
My experience (even in temperate climes) has been that the lithiums last 1-2 days longer than Alkaline batteries. Rechargables tend to have even lower life between recharges I believe.
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well i still haven't bought a gps bought a Down Quilt instead .i' know i'm a geek ;D ;D
my wife keeps reminding me our daughter is getting married in january and i'm gonna need every penny for that day.
why do women have to go a spoil us men's fun ::)
i need that gps big time, why they can't understand that i'll never know.huh wait until i get lost then they will know i was right all along. ;)
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As noted above rechargeable AA batteries have shorter life than alkaline batteries. So, I just make sure I carry enough batteries. Most of my rechargeable batteries are about 10 years old, so lifespan is even shorter.
I am a firm believer in AA batteries for GPS, I would not want a GPS that had an internal Lithium Ion, I want to be able to change batteries on the road.
My GPS model is no longer made, my heart rate monitor is from a defunct company. At least my bike computer on my latest build is from a company still in business.
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i have the edge touring and use garmin connect. its for all day rides at the moment and i have been very impressed with the maps, i have not needed to buy any. i have not had a garmin before my other gps (used only for geocaching) is the magellan eXplorist GC and the base maps are pretty poor.
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oh love to get my hands on that gps touring looks class.
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A couple posts above you see my vintage Garmin Legend with a black and white screen. Last week bought a Garmin GPSMAP 62S.
My vintage ones did not have much memory top hold maps, thus the recent purchase. I did not want the edge because I want to use AA batteries. Also it may be used for canoeing and kayaking, so a bike specific one was not important to me.
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I have used both an Edge 800 and a Satmap 10 and for touring i much preferred to Satmap. It has a much clearer display you can plot routes on the unit and it also has the advantage of using both Lipol and/or AAA batteries. At the moment it is currently on offer directly from Satmap and would be worth a look.
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very expensive though. :-\
http://www.mysatnav.ie/active10-roi?gclid=CJfqlqmd-LoCFW8r2wodNhcA5A
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The Satmap is currently on offer but it has to be bought directly from them and when you weigh up the cost of purchasing all of the maps it seems more reasonable.
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I've bought and had to return three garmin units due to flaky behavior, and an edge due to hating the way it operated (but I like the mounting system) I still have one garmin that is sitting in a drawer - but in the future I plan to use my old iPhone 3gs. Even without service the gps works great ... and it is not a dinosaur, as I now thing the garmins are.
I do plan to buy one of those gpS pucks for it though.
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Just to add my two cents'worth in data points wrt Garmin...
My first Garmin Oregon 400T had to be returned to Costco 'cos it took trips on its own -- really! It recorded tracks for some pretty extensive trips while laying atop my patio table. The second one has been flawlessly reliable until a recently corrupted file messed up the works. I opened the GPS in Linux, nuked the file, and all is well again after a reset to factory specs.
No helping the first one, though.
Best,
Dan. (...who is nearly convinced the first example was possessed)
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I have owned a Garmin GPSmap 60CSx for quite a few years now, mainly used for walking and a few times for cycling. It uses AA batteries it is waterproof, rugged and has always been very reliable. It has a small screen which is fine for walking but not so useful for navigating while on the bike. I still use this unit for walking. It really is excellent, especially when used in conjunction with a paper Ordnance Survey (OS) map which is superior to any GPS gadget screen for planning a route ahead while you're in the middle of nowhere.
I also own a Garmin Edge 800 'Trail Bundle' which includes Garmin GB Discoverer 1:50K OS Maps for off road and on road use, I much prefer these maps to the Topo maps on the GPSmap 60CSx for cycling. The Edge also has HRM and cadence features (although I don't use these) but for cycling/Audax the main benefit to me is it provides turn-by-turn navigation. It is also useful if you have more than one bike, I have a Garmin Edge mount on each of my bikes and the unit will record mileage (odometer) and calories data etc for up to 5 named bikes.
Overall I am very happy with my Garmins. They both have their individual strengths and I would recommend Garmin either to anybody ... although I don't know how the new Edge Touring mapping compares to the Trail Bundle OS maps on my 800.
Lastly, I have an iphone which also works very well for satnav and has a bigger screen than either of my Garmins, but battery life is inadequate without on the bike charging.
P.S. I find Garmin Connect very good for storing records of my rides and walks.
P.P.S. Updated recommendation in view of Mikeg's post below about his Garmin GPSMap 62S which is indeed a more up to date version of my 60CSx with more memory and more receptive to other mapping products.
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My Garmin eTrex 30 goes for a short trip round the immediate area until after 10 minutes it settles down and realises that I am still packing the bike.
Its ready to go before I am!
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ah i think i'll stick to the tried and tested way of findind my way when lost,ask a local pilgrim the way..its gonna be a while before i can afford to splash out on a gps or anything else for that matter :'(
mind you i do love gadgets especally bike ones.
so when you guys are buying the latest gps and retiring your old one let me know i might be interested in taking it off your hands. ;D ;D
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I mentioned above that I recently bought a Garmin 62S. I think this model was the replacement for the 60CSX model.
A friend of mine that loaded Open Source maps onto his Edge advised me on how easy it is to install these free maps onto a Garmin. I now have all of UK and continental Europe cycle maps, USA and Canada automotive maps, and a small part of USA cycling maps on a Micro SD card in my Garmin. I downloaded most of the files at night while I slept because my DSL line is quite slow. Took less than a week to load all of these files. I also loaded a lot of USA topo maps from my old CDs that I bought from Garmin, the CDs have all USA 100k Topo maps. I think I have about 12 gb of maps installed now.
Links at:
http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/
http://www.openfietsmap.nl/downloads/europe
http://www.osmmaps.com/
The 62S allows you to enable or disable individual map files. Thus, I can turn on or off the topo, cycle or automotive maps allowing me to select which maps I want to use. I think older units did not allow you to enable or disable, instead you had to take out your Micro SD card and plug it into a computer (or your smartphone) and change file names to accomplish the same goal.
I expect GPS units to give some odd readings when first turned on. A GPS unit starts calculating a location once it has the minimal necessary number of satellites to calculate a fix, but with a bit of time the GPS will usually pick up additional satellites which adds precision to the measurement. Those early fixes also are based on old data on satellite orbits stored in memory, reducing accuracy. So, you can expect some wild data during the first 10 minutes.
I used to have responsibility to tell several hundred contractors how to measure locations with GPS and report that data to my employer. Our accuracy needs were about plus or minus 50 feet, thus a non-WAAS enabled recreational grade unit was usually sufficient. Most of the contractors were not skilled in electronics, thus I avoided using terms like almanac and ephemeris while trying to educate them. Generically I told them to turn the unit on a half hour before they took a reading and set the unit on their car or truck dash while driving to the site to give the GPS time to download the latest data from the satellites on their orbits. I think it really is only supposed to take 10 minutes to download that data, but I told them 30 minutes knowing that they would cut whatever number I told them in half. This was before smartphones existed, so they were using dedicated GPS units, not phones.
I bought an Android smartphone planning to use it as a GPS unit for cycling, but the short battery life and very dim screen in sunlight convinced me that I needed to buy a regular GPS. I however expect to carry that phone as a backup to my GPS. I do not have a SIM card or data plan, so it only downloads data when I have wifi access. The apps that I used are:
- Maps With Me Lite (free).
- Russian Military Maps Pro (about $11 USD).
- GPS Test (free).
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I mentioned above that I recently bought a Garmin 62S. I think this model was the replacement for the 60CSX model.
You are quite right there mikeg. I have looked up the 62s and it is indeed more versatile and receptive to other mapping products than the 60CSx.
Thanks for a very informative post!
Jim
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I've got a 62s, it replaced my 60CSx when it landed under the brake levers of my falling bike and the screen died. The 62s is a definite upgrade in nearly every way. My issues with it are connected
1. IPx7 waterproof is still not waterproof enough to mean that it doesn't need to be put in my Ortlieb Handlebar Bag in heavy rain. I had one give error messages that wouldn't go away and the one I have now gave error messages until it dried out. I spoke to Garmin about this. They told me oh well yes it's waterproof but that doesn't mean you can descend quickly in rain because that creates too much pressure and that's your fault not our failure. The failure basically renders the microUSB connector invalid as it can't be recognised.
2. They removed the ability to save tracks to the microSD card. This has only been important for me when... my microUSB connector gave up. If I could archive to the microSD or save to it in anyway, then the waterproof issue would be less serious. Sure it would mean that I'd have to remove the microSD card each time I wanted to back up my tracks, but at the minute, if I'm descending too quickly in rain then I'm screwed. Restoring this feature, which was available on the 60CSx, would maintain the usefulness of what is otherwise a semi broken GPS.