Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Non-Thorn Related => Topic started by: triaesthete on June 23, 2012, 12:01:13 am
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Hello all
after reading "Sun CR18 rims...if I decide to go weight weenie, what could I get?" (Jawine), it struck me that "I was like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." (Isaac Newton).
Is anyone game to discuss the psychological and philosophical roots of our practical cycling needs and choices. I thought a cyclist's heirarchy of needs (with pyramidal hill) might be a starting point. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs for the basic concept I'm plagiarising).
I'm not sure where this might go (unless Dan in his moderator role puts it in Muppet threads ;D) , but I'd like to go beyond engineering philosophies and marketing psychology and into the hive-mind. Are you just pedalling through the countryside or up the side of an intellectual Alp?
Laugh/contribute/avoid?
Ian
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The first thing a cyclist needs is another bike. This isn't a replacement bike, this is an additional bike, of course better, and outfitted more expensively, than the bikes he already owns. That is the fundamental need of every cyclist. Any cyclist who tries to deny it requires counselling. -- Andre Jute
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I'm not sure where this might go (unless Dan in his moderator role puts it in Muppet threads...
Hi Ian!
I think you've posted and proposed a wonderful topic, and I hope it grows legs. Let's see where it grows (I very much like how you left it open for Bigger Things and incorporated Maslow also); if it gets way out there away from cycling, then it can be relocated in future.
I'll come back and weigh in with some thoughts after I've had time to ponder awhile. It's pretty open, and I can't wait to see what others have to say.
Our esteemed Mr. Jute has made a contribution hard to match!
All the best,
Dan. (who is, as you read this, considering another bike for the stable...only to avoid the need for counseling, you understand)
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Right now I need a better stable to put all the bikes in :-\
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An unstructured list of goals is one way into this. Really nobody *needs* bicycles or bicycling in any absolute way. But a bicycle can be a great way to fulfill many different real needs.
Transportation. To go to the market, to visit friends, to go to school, etc. Usually there are other ways to get around and even more reasons why a bike is preferable to the alternatives or maybe works well in combination with alternatives.
Biking is inexpensive transportation, it is low carbon transportation, it is great for dense traffic or for tricky terrain, it is faster than walking, it can make carrying 50 or 100 pounds quite easy or anyway easier than e.g. a backpack or pushcart.
Bicycling is a great way to get strong, to develop leg muscles and cardio-vascular fitness, and to burn some calories.
Bicycling in the short term can be a way to get strong enough to be able to bicycle for other reasons in the longer term, e.g. for transportation. If I want to ride to visit my friend who lives 300 miles away, first I need to get strong enough to make a 300 mile journey, and riding my bike a lot is a great way to get that strong.
Biking is a great way to hang out with friends, if you are lucky enough to have bike riding friends nearby.
Biking is a great way to explore the terrain, to get to know the roads and the towns and the fields and the streams.
Biking is a great way to get away from the hassles of business etc.
Yeah biking is a fun way to play with some really cool equipment - the bikes themselves and all the accessories but also tools. Fixing and tuning can be as much fun as riding. Looking at catalogs and spec sheets. It's a whole world of technology to explore and get lost in!
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Hi All!
Okay, I'll have a crack at it...
For me, cycling is passion, pilgrimage, and recreation in its root form, re-creation.
As passion, it is also a lifestyle, a hobby/exercise for mind and body, and a core pursuit.
As pilgrimage, it provides a means for spiritual fulfillment, a vehicle for seeing my inner self and my relationship to a higher power, and to commune with same.
As recreation, it is the means by which I can re-create myself and fill myself back up again when emptied by the stresses of my everyday life. A zenlike state is created for me by cycling, where I gain by letting go.
Looked at in this way, the pursuit of cycling fills some needs at most levels of Maslow's Needs Hierarchy for me and is a common thread through my life's daily interests -- travel, associations, fitness, reading, planning, doing. What started as a means for recovery from accidental injury has evolved over the last 35 years to become a very important part of my life and something I am grateful for and appreciate. When I cannot engage in cycling, I feel unfulfilled at some core levels because those needs are ether unmet, or fail to be met in a familiar and comfortable way that is as enjoyable. It might be fair to say I really do need a bicycle! I walk about five miles daily, but that is my practical limit, making it impractical to take the longer trips I prefer. I know I don't achieve the same level of enjoyment and satisfaction from walking, and for various reasons I don't run.
Quite apart from the above, the bicycle is a tool and partnership between my effort and a desired goal, with the journey from one to another being as satisfying as the end result. I cannot take these journeys without the bicycle, and the bicycle cannot fulfill its purpose without me. All in all, a pretty remarkable feat for a machine that cannot even stand up by itself!
Best,
Dan.
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Hmmmm .. I'm not sure I could actually decide what my ultimate cycling needs/wants are, if they are achievable, and if I can relate this to psychology, but here goes with my personal perspective if that can contribute to a psycholigcal debate?
In recent years my cycling has been purely for recreational purposes, it allows me to commune with nature and admire beautiful scenery, especially from the tops of hills. Not exactly 40 days and nights in the wilderness like Dan, but a day out at a time suffices for me. I could achieve this by hillwalking or even by driving a car, but by cycling I can cover much more distance and therefore see much more than by walking, and I can see/hear/smell so much more than I would from within a car. This communing with nature gives me an anormous feeling of wealth, not monetary wealth, but I feel I have something precious that so few others have.
I have mostly achieved this using touring bikes with a saddle bag loaded with enough to keep me going for a day out, generally wearing specialist clothing most suitable for a day in the saddle i.e. padded shorts, stiff soled shoes with SPD cleats, padded mitts, and breathable/waterproof shell. I suppose these are all things I need for the purpose of getting out into the countryside by bike.
In order to enjoy these days out cycling I have to maintain a certain level of fitness/stamina to enable trips of anything from 40 miles up to 100 miles, so therefore I sometimes feel compelled to motivate myself to get myself kitted up and get out on my bike for the purpose of "training" which can be difficult for me. (Note: I am not all that fit, but cannot allow myself to become totally unfit!) This need to maintain a minimum level of cycling form leads me to ponder the benefits of utility cycling as a means to achieve this end, everyday errands such as JimK describes ... but I think that would mean getting another bike!
This is where the wisdom of our esteemed Andre Jute comes in, I envy him in that he can simply put on his town shoes, his hat and his coat, step onto his Utopia and set off in sartorial elegance. He can get on his bike without the hassle of changing into padded shorts, SPD shoes etc etc and go about his business without looking something like an alien in lycra to the folks in town. This type of cycling I feel would be a perfectly purposeful way of maintaining my cycling habit between excursions into the countryside with all the benefits of accomplishing socialising, shopping, errands etc at the same time - and achievable at the drop of a hat! (The learning curve in order to develop such elaborate cycle security measures would be a bit off-putting to me though.)
So, I have identified a potential desire for a town bike, with fat tyres, platform pedals, mudguards, Rohloff (of course!), chain guard or belt drive, lighting, luggage carrying capability, and so on. But then again, what about a folder? That would enable me to combine utility cycling with mechanised transport for ventures further afield, and without the need to leave it unattended and therefore security! Or what about trying to get Mrs Relayer on the back of a tandem? LOL And so it goes on .. ::)
I love cycling, but I feel there is still an ocean of truth out there waiting for me, I don't think it's a hierarchy but there are gaps to fill in; and I definitely need more bikes, and storage for same, to get to cycling utopia ;)
P.S. The bottom line is economic i.e. "limited means and unlimited wants".
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I gave up the car and took up cycling literally to stay alive. My profession, as a writer, involves much sitting down for long stretches, and I was putting on weight at a rate that concerned my physician. So I took up bicycling and haven't looked back.
Talking about my ride-in-town-clothes bike:
(The learning curve in order to develop such elaborate cycle security measures would be a bit off-putting to me though.)
No, you're missing the point. Bikes of the class that encourage riding in street clothes, like Dutch city bikes, come with security built in, the same way they come with mudguards, chain guards, a rack, a stand, a hub gearbox, platform pedals, an ergonomic saddle, all fitted as standard. The ring lock is as much part of the irreducible minimum city bike as all the other "comfort" facilities". It works very quickly, much more quickly than a curly cable or a U-lock. It's just that Dan making a meal of his bike security recently which gives you the idea there's something elaborate about it; there isn't.
The novel but very effective Swiss n'lock stem lock (more precisely, steering tube unlock) I now have on my bike I fitted to save me bending over even as far as a ring lock or a U-lock requires. It cost €9 more than I paid for my Abus Granit 54X U-lock. It's about twice the price of a mid price ringlock.
There is nothing elaborate to fitting it. It fits like any stem.
There's no learning curve with using either a ring lock or the n'lock. You turn the key and take it away with you, just like a car.
So, I have identified a potential desire for a town bike, with fat tyres, platform pedals, mudguards, Rohloff (of course!), chain guard or belt drive, lighting, luggage carrying capability, and so on. But then again, what about a folder? That would enable me to combine utility cycling with mechanised transport for ventures further afield, and without the need to leave it unattended and therefore security! Or what about trying to get Mrs Relayer on the back of a tandem? LOL And so it goes on .. ::)
The truth is, I ride one bike at a time. The other bikes that I haven't given away or sold are in fact very similar to the Utopia Kranich I ride daily, also fully trimmed Dutch city bikes with hub gearboxes and sporting pretensions. (Utopia is a German custom bike maker, but the frame of the 1936 Locomotief Crossframe Deluxe that they developed for the Kranich is Dutch, and the modern balloon-capable frame is built for them by Van Raam in The Netherlands.) But those spare bikes aren't in the stables out the back or in the garden shed, they're in the loft, three floors up because it is dry and heated with the house.
I have willpower. I consider buying a new bike only once a year. (Well, okay, at most twice a year.) I'll have you know that this is a feat more difficult than eating only one peanut.
That's essentially what I'm doing on the Thorn conference. The Raven Tour (or even maybe the Sport Tour -- I've had good luck with a Trek on which the designer missed the aim of a Dutch city bike by a mile, which has geometry pretty close to making it an ali Thorn Raven Sport Tour, but on the other hand I'm getting on a bit for nervous, nippy bikes) is perpetually on my shortlist. But, in practice even more significantly, Andy Blance is a Calvinist when it comes to specifying components: he always knows the best components that last the longest for the least money; I've never seen him make a fashion victim choice, or fit a boutique part when a common, good-vslue commercial part would do the job better. So I never buy a component without first checking to see if Mr Blance either specifies it or has an opinion on it.
Every year near Christmas I consider what's available and make a shortlist. What has actually ended up on my shortlist for several years now is
-- the Thorn Raven, already mentioned, because it is unlikely that I will ever make any tour longer than a couple of days, and that a credit card tour for sure, as I have no patience with camping and need electricity to charge my comms equipment; the reason I haven't bought a Raven is that I'm an artist and I know I'll wince every time I see welded tubes rather than brazed or lugged ones; http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornRavenTourBroHiRes.pdf
-- a Utopia Phoenix semi-recumbent, more than a little unsuitable to the hills of West Cork, not to mention the steep hill on which I live, but included for the novelty; this one has been on my list since it was the Scooterbike, before Utopia took it over and reengineered it, simply because it is different (I did briefly own a Giant Revive but it went because at the time I was clearing out all my derailleur bikes in favour of hub gearboxes; http://www.google.com/search?q=Giant+Revive&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvnsfd&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=lcvlT_3MK5SChQeV8c3CCQ&ved=0CFgQsAQ ); I haven't bought a Phoenix either because it would be a silly bike in my surroundings, and it is WELDED; http://www.utopia-fahrrad.de/Fahrrad_Html/Kapitel_Html/84_Phoenix_107.html
-- a Utopia Kranich, in sunflower yellow or mellon yellow; http://www.utopia-fahrrad.de/Fahrrad_Html/Kapitel_Html/80_Kranich_103.html
Duh. I already have a Utopia Kranich, in green with gold coach lines. Mine has the perfect spec for me (very progressive rim hydraulics instead of disc brakes, Rohloff, fattest possible Big Apples, all components triple-tested and mainly German). There is no way to justify a second one, merely in a different colour.
-- I used to have the Pedersen on my shortlist but the Kranich was specifically chosen for its low stepover, and the one thing that distinguishes the Pedersen is the highest standover of any current bike; I'm not sure it will be practical in my everyday use; http://www.pedersen.info/en/Pedersen_en/Models.html
I love cycling, but I feel there is still an ocean of truth out there waiting for me, I don't think it's a hierarchy but there are gaps to fill in; and I definitely need more bikes, and storage for same, to get to cycling utopia ;)
There may be "an ocean of truth out there"; there usually is. But I'm not sure that, at the stage of cycling the people on this conference have reached, it can still be mechanical. Once you have a top bike, like a Thorn Raven, widely acknowledged as the best for purpose or best in class or, as in the case of my Kranich, with what's "best" about it not even specified because insiders are supposed to know, there essentially isn't anywhere for you to go, except maybe to some novelty like a recumbent or a folder. Sure, a guy like Dan, who bought the derailleur version of his Thorn fancy, can aspire to a Rohloff, or maybe a Rohloff as well. But we hear from the fellow with the two beautiful identical tandems that they ride the Rohloff one by preference and keep the derailleur-equipped one as a spare; we hear from a regular that he's thinking of selling his Look. In fact, I'm surprised not to hear more confessions like mine, that somebody made a shortlist and found at or near the top of it... a bike that he already owns!
Still, if making a shortlist keeps you out of the pub...
Andre Jute
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The cyclist's FIRST IMPERATIVE is TO KEEP CYCLING.
I was very happy when I recently had heart surgery to discover that the surgeon was a cyclist who understood that I would measure progress by how soon I was back on the bike.
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Hello everyone,
I'm so glad you have joined in on this thread. I was unsure about such an experimental posting but it looks like it will prove worthwhile. Thank you all.
To provoke your thoughts further please have a look at this truly beautiful work of art and humanity on http://www.bicycleportraits.co.za/Index.html (thanks again to the CTC e newsletter). Click on the portraits to enlarge and you will also see some thoughts of the subjects. Every one of them are worth contemplating.
I would be interested to hear if you have any new thoughts on this topic as a result.
Best wishes to you all
Ian
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For me, its not about the bike.
It gives me an escape from pretty much all of my adult responsibilities, and I really appreciate my wife's patience in letting me indulge going out to play on the bike. I try to cycle every day: during these wee breaks from real life it helps me maintain some mental equilibrium.
I'm not religious, but I do find (like Dan) a spiritual aspect to the bike, both in terms of my own place in the landscapes, as well as a the simple pleasure of of making progress through them. Maintaining my bikes myself adds to this.
I have several bikes, some really nice ones, and they do add to the pleasure of the ride, (my raven sport tour being the smoothest and most comfortable is the best) but I'd still cycle on a bone-shaker.
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I'm not religious, but I do find (like Dan) a spiritual aspect to the bike, both in terms of my own place in the landscapes, as well as a the simple pleasure of of making progress through them. Maintaining my bikes myself adds to this.
Yeah I like this notion of pilgrimage. My sweetheart and I recently watched the movie The Way directed by Emilio Estevez and starring his father Martin Sheen. It's about the Camino Santiago. It seems like a pilgrimage starts as a journey with a sacred destination and gradually turns into a sacred journey.
I just finished the book Distance Cycling by Hughes and Kehlenbach. It's probably too much a beginner book for folks here. It did help me understand training a bit better, how to set up an effective rhythm of longer and shorter rides. But the book also talked quite a bit about mental training and the importance of relaxing and clarifying motivation and how these get more important as the rides get longer.
A long bike ride travels not only through a geography of roads and towns but also takes a person's body through a series of phases and their mind too. A group riding together will evolve along the way too, their interrelationships. What's the special sauce that can orient these movements in a sacred direction? People ride their bikes to raise money for charities, that's one way. Or one could actually be carrying relief supplies, or bringing carpentry tools to rebuild houses and schools after a disaster. Surely charity is a dimension of the sacred.
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"The longest journey begins with one step"
I've never been one for heavy trainng routines. My cycling training is mostly riding to and fro work, and also the concept of 'use it or lose it' - just keep riding. On long tours it is often quite feasible to develop greater fitness as you travel, by starting your journey with a few shorter days then building your distances as you go.
I've done a good deal of long distance riding, over many years - Audax 200kms and 300kms in a day, long duration tours (fully-loaded) of 2-9 weeks, and big group tours (organised 15 people to do a 18 day tour of Tasmania last summer). With all of this I've never been too keen on the 'ride for a cause' approach. I reckon the fund-raising focus takes too much away from the pure joy of the expedition. It's great for some, just not on my schedule. I prefer to make suitable donations.
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My two pence...coming from a Netherlands commuting background, with family cycle trips (sometimes much longer than I wanted as a kid...ARE WE THERE YET? poor parents :) where cycling is just like breathing, now commuting in UK (Norn Ire) where having a bike is a talking point. Not so in NL, nobody actually cares it's like saying you well breathe not having one is probably seen as "A bit weird" here it's the other way around in some circles :)
Freedom - The bike is faster than walking, but you don't need fuel (just more food for long rides), parking space (a lamppost will do) and it rarely lets you down (and if it does, generally you can fix it yourself)
Independence - As a kid it's great to get your first bike and explore the area
Fitness - As a poster said: "Let us have a moment of silence for all those who drive to the gym to cycle on a stationary bike"
Mental health - This sounds pretty faffy, I know, but exercise is known to improve this, and there's something relaxing about sniffing up the smells of the city. If you're not behind a bin lorry, that is... And a bike ride clears the head nicely after a day at work.
Achievement - Especially fighting winds, going up hills, trying to break your speed record on a good day, nothing like a bit of a small challenge. And if you don't want one, you lower the gear and slow down. It's up to you.
And since coming to the UK...
Community - There's a small but lively bike community in Belfast, part activism for fighting our corner, and part cycling with nice bikes and going to the pub together for fun.
And of course this forum and the many other bike forums :)
Hobby/curiosity: Gone fixed out of sheer curiosity, and I like it! Then got a Thorn, for long cycle rides whenever possible, learned more about bike parts and types of bikes though of course until you've ridden a certain type you can't judge :) One day I can tune a front derailleur w/o help... ;)
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Does any body else here need to suffer on the bike to feel they are overcoming adversity and gain self esteem?
This always seemed to me to be the motivational root of many outdoor pursuits. If so did you choose a bicycle because of this? After all we expose our bodies more or less unprotected to the elements every time we ride, and are also at risk from the traffic, crashing and more besides (see Dan's Sherpa thread and the il padrone's Australia!)
Curious
Ian
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you must be jokeing Ian if i'm suffering i get off, those days are long gone .mind you i did suffer on my spin today ;D but not enough to walk ;).
i don't see the bike or cycling as a freedom or independence thing it's just getting out there enjoying whatever the cycle brings on the day,be it bad or good weather the company or even how well your going.i love bikes but i don't think the perfect bike has been invented yet coming close but still not there imho.
you know what bug's me , its the cloths right pain in the ass getting all that gear on and then if your caught short man your in troble. someone should invent casual clothing that works great for cycling..
yeah cycling can bring the best and the worst out of people.
anyway i'm off topic if i was ever on it ;D ;D
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if your caught short man your in troble
...and if you get caught short in bib shorts, you're really in trouble! :D
Best,
Dan. (who now wears the straps *over* his jersey to avoid a complete disrobing during each "pause naturelle")
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Back on-track after a little humor...
Does any body else here need to suffer on the bike to feel they are overcoming adversity and gain self esteem? This always seemed to me to be the motivational root of many outdoor pursuits.
No, not for me, but it's a question worth exploring. I'll have a crack at it.
What a fascinating question, Ian! Those so motivated are far from alone. I think this is exactly the reason why many people engage in sports and outdoors pursuits. I live on a feeder route to the riverside bike paths that start a block away from my home, and this certainly seems to motivate many of the runners who steam by. Many have faces portraying pure agony and gaits to match, yet they come home and talk about how "good" they feel...and go out and do it again the next day. A neighbor called out a greeting as he ran by yesterday and said, "Gotta do it! Helps with the guilt!" ?!? Huh? Huh. He must have Issues; sounds like he's running to expiate his sins. I know he frequently complains he's "old", whatever that means, and he's adopted or developed a persona to go with it. I try to steer clear.
Many formal (and informal) pilgrimages seem to run on this principle, at least in part. I've read many accounts of The Way -- the old pilgrimage route to Santiago de Compostela. In the case of pilgrimages, physical suffering drops the barriers that help us avoid or prevent us from engaging our inner selves. By doing so, they allow for insights to be gained and work to be done that couldn't take place otherwise. Looked at that way, I think nearly any difficult or taxing pursuit can be viewed as a pilgrimage or opportunity for personal growth at a pretty core level. It would be no surprise if self-esteem grew as a result. I'd like to ride the Santiago route myself as a friend did last year, but mostly as a tour. I already use and value bicycle touring as a vehicle to commune with myself and for spiritual growth and communion away from the "noise and static" that seems to be part and parcel of daily life in a more developed and complicated artificial setting. As mentioned earlier, it is a way to re-create myself and fill myself back up as tensions and stress are released.
I'm fortunate that, while at uni, I fell into the mileage-distance trap and clearly saw the suboptimal returns. It was a good lesson and a good time for it. When I gave up riding-for-distance as an end in itself...it became less hard, and I rode farther, better, gaining by letting go. There's a lesson in there. I'm doing things now and with far greater ease at 52 than I ever did at 19-29. Part of it is from years of "training" ("training"? for what? I just ride my bike), though I'd call it experience or time in the saddle. I've so thoroughly integrated all the little tricks and cheats, I don't have to think about them anymore: Drink before I'm thirsty, eat before I'm hungry, shift before I have to, keep the cadence high and easy and pedal round circles. Take breaks -- on or off the bike -- and let the hills come to you. Velocio (Paul de Vivie, http://cycling.ahands.org/bicycling/velocio.html ) knew what he was talking about.
Going up steep hills (as yesterday, with Sherpa fully loaded) I sometimes wonder at how a pursuit I love so much can at times be so terribly hard. Then, I reach the summit, stop, and feel a glow of satisfaction as I sit in my little chair and truly appreciate the moment. In this way, sport(s) or outdoors pursuits are built around a motivational reward structure by their very uh, nature (sorry). Put out effort => Gain satisfaction. Effort is keyed directly to Result, Investment to Outcome. There's a straight path to the bennies, and when you add in the effects of naturally-released endorphins and increasing fitness, it can be hard to tease out the real motivational elements of the pain-reward-ego-lather-rinse-repeat cycle. Engaging in such pursuits can be its own reward, and that's often enough. You see it in academia. It's not too far off what motivates people in the business world, particularly those with independent ventures. Y'really want to see an example? Look at the super-volunteer. Sure, their efforts benefit others, but they're gaining a lot themselves or they wouldn't do it. Athletes run a long ways on the built-in reward structure, but at a certain point it becomes a chicken-and-egg question. Does one engage in (whatever) because you love it and all that surrounds the pursuit, or does one engage because it is a means to an end? Journey, or reward? Are you motivated by the pursuit, or what arises from it? There's probably as many reasons and motivators as there are people. Each reason must be valid to a degree or it wouldn't happen. It is natural for self-esteem to soar when adversity is overcome. If one doesn't have adversity in their lives, then sport or a goal is a way to create it. Very rarely does one achieve a desired outcome without investing at least some effort.
I have seen that a lot last week and this here in Eugene, where the Olympic Trials are once again taking place. The agony and the ecstasy, and who is to say which or what motivates the other?
In my case, health has been a core motivator throughout. I spent a good part of my life in sustained physical pain. I grew from, with, and through that, and don't need or want more for growth's sake! As for fulfillment and self-esteem, that now grows and sustains from within and from a spiritual source. Aside from cycling-related things, I get my bennies from community service in one form or another, and am a primary caregiver to two people in ill health. Three years of suicide-prevention training in a past job shaped my outlook and character a bit, too. Much if not most of what we worry ourselves sick over isn't worth it and I see that clearly when I get Away. I'm an eternal optimist, temporary cynic, recovering perfectionist, and growth addict. Mostly, I'm...me.
I've had enough of suffering, so my motivation is a desire to leave a state of pain for something "other" and "better". There's real joy when I engage in things that were sometimes denied me by circumstance. I started riding for physical rehab from knee injuries. That worked and I found something More. My pain response is different now, too. After my healing, I no longer suffer from lactic acid as I once did, or muscle aches. When I stop, it is mostly because I have depleted my reserves and have to recharge. I do get tired!
But...bike to feel they are overcoming adversity and gain self esteem?
Nah. For me, that happened in another venue called Life. As for the bike, I just like being out on it.
My two cents' worth and another data point.
All the best,
Dan.
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And...apropos this topic and thread, take a look at the attached, reposted by SJS Cycles on their Facebook page (Source: Atlanta Bike Coalition).
Most levels of the Needs Hierarchy are addressed in one graphic or another in this poster devoted to the benefits of cycling.
Best,
Dan.
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Velocio knew what he was talking about.
Ah, thanks for that link, Dan! A delightful new inspiration for me!
I am fascinated by the mutual relationship between discipline and freedom. Superficially they seem like opposites. But really the only way to create a meaningful life is through cultivation, work, struggle. To play beautiful spontaneous music requires countless hours of strict practice, arpeggios, scales, etc.
Ray DaBoll (http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=3750) was a great calligrapher, one of whose masterpieces was a broadsheet exclaiming "Calligraphy: Disciplined Freedom is the Essence of It."
Sun Ra (http://nuvoid.blogspot.com/2008/11/sun-ra-sunday_30.html) was a ground breaking jazz musician for whom a highly disciplined orchestra made possible the materialization of his visions.
Yoga (http://www.yoganorthwest.com/yoga/reflections/past-reflections/tapas/) is an ancient discipline of body, breath, and mind, leading to the ultimate human freedom.
It's an interesting puzzle. Many highly accomplished individuals have not really achieved any very rich freedom through all their hard work. Success often comes with a kind of rigid pride... it can make a palace into a prison. But the highest folks seem to be able to walk right out of their fabulous palaces to dance and sing in the village marketplace. Richard Feynman comes to mind as a wonderful example, brilliant and down-to-earth.
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Dear All,
My needs as a cyclist are ...
... to be fitter ...
... good lungs, for breathin' & shoutin' ...
... good legs, for shavin' & spinnin' ...
... less invisibility to some drivers of motor vehicles ...
... more invisiblility to others ...
... & dogs ...
... fewer, shallower, potholes in the Tarmac around here ...
... to be permitted to ride footpaths as well as bridle ways ...
... a bigger shed ...
... more space on trains & buses ...
... & the road ...
... a bike shed at work ...
... the scalp of the scally who lifted the ride of my young neighbour, who up until yesterday showed promise as a bit of a Danny McCaskill.
Not an exhaustive list, just some of the things that would make me smile a bit more broadly and grimace a little less fiercely as I trundle through Brum.
Yours, James
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The hive is humming: humorous, poetic, diverse, analytical, informative. Please keep the ideas and links flowing. The different perspectives are enlightening.
Going on from Velocio I found this challenging article in two parts on the Audax uk website
http://issuu.com/audax-uk/docs/2011_may_arrivee/39 http://issuu.com/audax-uk/docs/arrivee_113/49
I think the suffering question could be looked at two ways: absence of comfort or presence of pain. Spartan or masochist. Maybe it's a spectrum we're on and you fall off one end into a car and the other into extreme sports.
Do we have here a crown of Thorns?
Happy thinking
Ian
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:D
Brilliant topic, responses, and summary, Ian. My, you posted a corker with this one; well done indeed!
Best,
Dan.
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As an older cyclist I looked at how my cycling needs have changed over the years.
TRANSPORT - My first bike extended my geographical range of exploration.
This led to transport to play football in a local league around the environs of Cardiff.
MONEY - a grocery round on a bike with a small front wheel and a huge basket. The basket had been changed for a cardboard box because it would hold more, indeed without my weight on the saddle it would stand on end when crammed with orders. I still hate pop bottles.
TRANSPORT - On starting work my bike got me there, an old Hercules with simplex gears. One night I managed to hit two cars without their help. On what is now the main road into Cardiff from the motorway, thankfully then more or less traffic free, head down rode straight into the back of a parked car and landed unhurt on the roof. Later that night gazing down the line of the forks to see if i got them straight I hit another.
ECONOMICS - Attending University as a mature student with family responsibilities to bring about a major career change, I took the car off the road and bought a bike. This worked well until riding with my son to his piano lesson he put his foot into his front wheel and we ended up in casualty. thankfully no lasting effect.
PROVISIONING - For many years my wife and I sailed small boats around the west country coast.
Buying paraffin for our anchor light meant an often lengthy incursion inland. I hit on the idea of two folding bikes we could carry on board and two Bromptons were purchased. The first use was a landing on the beach at St Mawes followed by a pleasant ride. On returning to the beach the wind had changed and the surf risen. It took two trips in the dinghy, one for the bikes and a return for the somewhat displeased wife.
LEISURE - Approaching retirement and with my wife's increasing sea sickness we sold the boat and I bought a new bike a Thorn XTC. slowly at first, my mileage gradually increased as true to N+1 did the number of bikes.
OBSESSION - My wife now insists I am obsessed with cycling. I follow the tours, classics, indeed most televised cycling and aim to ride at least 100 miles a week. I am an avid forum reader if a minimal poster. My stable now includes, the XTC, Trek Madone, Kona Kula Gold, Bob Jackson and a Birdy folder.
ENJOYMENT - Cycling means I thoroughly enjoy my retirement. I ride mainly around the Somerset levels in beautiful countryside with an abundance of wild life and as payment do the occasional hill even cheddar Gorge when my conscience demands.
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Hi Malcon
thanks for posting. I'm sure many here would benfit from the experiences of others like yourself.
Your post made me think that many of us are circumstantial cyclists. That is to say we have an ongoing interest in cycling and our spiritual and temporal cycling requirements vary and fluctuate as our lives pass by. More realist than fundamentalist perhaps and maybe better for it. Enjoying what you can do with what you have today. (see Andres earlier post) Perhaps this is cycling Zen and JimK could advise?
Best wishes
Ian
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cycling Zen
The further I pursue my researches, the vaster my ignorance appears! Look at this fellow with his rice sacks (third image):
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=1&page_id=64883&v=Bm (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=1&page_id=64883&v=Bm)
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Hi Jim
I knew you'd have an angle. Truly a "go with what you've got" sort of guy. Puts "needs" for touring into perspective! For those that really have almost nothing there is the chikudu hand carved bicycle http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=53556
Best wishes
Ian
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"“What a man can be, he must be.” This forms the basis of the perceived need for self-actualization. This level of need pertains to what a person's full potential is and realizing that potential."
And what Dan needed to be was a Rohloff owner.
Ian
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I concur with much above. I love Places, and for me places are different when viewed from the seat of a bike. The journey is the object and the bike the means of achieving that aim.
I'm currently in San Francisco and saw a great tee shirt "light bikes and light beer are for wussies!" which reminded my of Andre and this forum.
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I only wish I could cycle in San Francisco in the summer. All those girls. But— All those hills, too.
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I only wish I could cycle in San Francisco in the summer. All those girls. But— All those hills, too.
Ah, yes, Andre but bring a sweater and a rain jacket. Mark Twain (never) said, "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco," and it's true, even if he didn't say it! ( http://www.snopes.com/quotes/twain.asp ). Nearby Palo Alto, Atherton, and Mill City have some great weather, and there's always the hills and trails of the Marin Peninsula.
In addition to its other virtues, San Francisco is very near El Cerrito (East Bay, just north of Berkeley), home of CycleMonkey, Rohloff's authorized North American service center and distributor. Lots to see there.... ;)
All the above are very high on Maslow's needs hierarchy for me! Now...how to actualize?
Best,
Dan.
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Andre are you kidding what about Cork city.
Andre i meant to ask before buy any chance of a few close up photos of your bike ;)
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on Cycling Zen...
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/07/26/chinese-farmer-bikes-from-beijing-to-london-to-see-olympics/#ixzz21ib4IyX0?test=latestnews (http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/07/26/chinese-farmer-bikes-from-beijing-to-london-to-see-olympics/#ixzz21ib4IyX0?test=latestnews)
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Wow.
Hats off to Chen Guanming. A short video from the BBC here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18984651
He has a different take on bike camping. Rickshaw campervans could be the next big thing. One for Jags methinks.
Ian
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hah i seen Ian way out of my league ,i'm try to go the lightweight route ;D ;D
fair play to him though he's a tough boy. ;)
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Andre are you kidding what about Cork city.
Andre i meant to ask before buy any chance of a few close up photos of your bike ;)
I don't cycle in Cork city, Jags. It's such a twee place, I walk everywhere I want to go, usually from bike shop to bike shop, with stops in between for tool shops. Now you know my dark secret: I'm a tool fondler.
Some large photos of my bike, if you mean the Utopia Kranich, are in http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdf -- "Be warned! If you are easily overcome with bicycle lust, this innocuous booklet will ruin your peace of mind." If you mean one of my other bikes, try http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html
Andre Jute
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Which does Chen need most, an olympic ticket or a rohloff to get him back over the Himalaya?
What's the betting that we see a Boris and Chen (geddit) doubleact on our screens soon?
I'm sure Dan will already have made a Rickshaw RV ;D
Ian
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I don't cycle in Cork city, Jags. It's such a twee place, I walk everywhere I want to go, usually from bike shop to bike shop, with stops in between for tool shops. Now you know my dark secret: I'm a tool fondler.
Some large photos of my bike, if you mean the Utopia Kranich, are in http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdf -- "Be warned! If you are easily overcome with bicycle lust, this innocuous booklet will ruin your peace of mind." If you mean one of my other bikes, try http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html
Andre Jute
Thanks Andre yip sure is a class act ,thers a lot going on with that bike everywhere you look thers some wee gem to be seen.love to take it for a spin.btw how come you haven't a nice set of slicks on there Grand Bios would sit well on those lovely wheels. ;)
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Thanks Andre yip sure is a class act ,thers a lot going on with that bike everywhere you look thers some wee gem to be seen.love to take it for a spin.btw how come you haven't a nice set of slicks on there Grand Bios would sit well on those lovely wheels. ;)
It is, as you say, a very pleasing bike to look at. One important thing to me about anything I own is that there must be no rough edges; my hands are soft from a lifetime of operating a keyboard, and any implement has to cut me only once for me to throw it out. (A poor bike leaves its mark on your hands; a good bike doesn't.) It's great to ride as well, very smooth, with a feeling of ineffable power. If you're in my part of the country, let me know well in advance (I have all kinds of wretched medical schedules) and perhaps we can take a ride.
If they ever make those Grand Bois in 60x622, with foolproof puncture protection, and a better ride than my favourite Schwalbe Big Apple Liteskins, and preferably lighter too, I shall definitely consider them. But I'm not holding my breath; I've already looked into their Pasela mass-produced cousins and decided that for my purposes Schwalbe makes superior tyres. I have laid in enough of the Liteskins to see me out. They're actually the biggest marvel on the bike; it was designed from the ground up around the Big Apples. (In that sense, the profile of a vintage bike is so much smoke... To their credit, Utopia don't try to pretend it is a nostalgic recreation.)
Andre Jute
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...anything I own is that there must be no rough edges; my hands are soft from a lifetime of operating a keyboard...
Hmm. Soft hands with a very keen -- razor sharp -- mind.
And a very hard worker.
Best,
Dan. (who calls 'em as he sees 'em)
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;D ;D i'm the opposite of Andre hard hands soft brain ;D
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i'm the opposite of Andre hard hands soft brain
:P Bah. Anything but!
(Ian, I'll preface my following comments by saying I hope they will be within the pervue of your opening call for responses, re: the hierarchical needs of cyclists)
Looking at my stable of bikes, I realize by ownership I must weigh security high among my needs to be satisfied -- (except for Sherpa) all my bikes are old! I go about 20 years between acquisitions! If one measure of security is stability, I'm there, Man!
I court my bicycles before purchase by doing careful research. I date a few by looking in showrooms, comparing catalog specs, and going back a few times for one more look-see. Then...I commit. And, once committed, I am loyal and faithful. The 1977 Nishiki (my first "real" road bike) is still in the family -- I sold it to my father who in turn could not bear to sell it on (this mechanical sentimentality may be a family trait). I bought the 1970 Raleigh Gran Sports used 27 years ago -- outdoors and in a rainstorm -- at the end of a 63-hour stretch of deadline-induced wakefulness when all common sense had abandoned me. When the sun came out, I found the wheels had been laced and tensioned to a high standard for al dente pasta and all the bearings were so rough they could double as rock polishers. Of course, that meant I had to restore it rather than sell it on (commitment, remember?) and then when I found the original plastic Simplex derailleurs were junk, it was reborn with all-early '80s Japanese road components and a set of gorgeously drilled Stronglight 99 bis chainrings. There's the 1971 Windsor Professional (also used, and at USD$20, too hard to pass up even though it sat through two winters' snows in the high Cascades when it failed to sell in the owner's garage sale), the 28- and 31 year-old Centurions, and the two "new" bikes -- the 1989 tandem (bought used) and Miyata 1000LT (bought new at a discount NOS as a couple year-old bike that had been lost off a dealer's inventory and couldn't be sold as a current model). There's a few bare frames in there, as well.
My car is old, too. A 23 year-old hatchback that was warmed-over considerably as an homage to my tuner-shop days. I've never found anything better for my needs. So, it stays on.
Andre struck a nerve when he admitted to a tool fetish; I have one, too. Yes, I have feelings for my ratchets and sockets and such and you'd have to pry the Mitutoyo digital micrometer out of my cold, dead hands to get it. They're a means to my expression and accomplishments; the tools of a craftsman. In a very real way, my bicycles are an extension of this. They are favored tools for an intended job, a feeling reinforced by a shared history. I don't necessarily anthropomorphize the bikes (really?), but I do find myself describing our (see?) trips together using the royal "we" (yep), as neither of us (toldya) could ride without the other (methinks Danneaux is attributing human characteristics to an object). There's a synergistic co-dependency there, and the sum of the whole really is greater than the parts.
I just really hate to get rid of favored tools. Beyond soggy sentimentality, there is something about a tool you can reach for and use without thinking. My bikes do that. They're irreplaceable to me, and that's why I keep them. It really is about security of the über-familiar.
Anybody else crazy enough to hang onto old bikes forever and consider a sale the same as turning an old friend out into a chilly, stormy night without so much as a slicker? Does keeping them maintain your sense of history in a tangible way, or satisfy some need? Or are you a serial owner, as are many I meet, where one bike makes way for another in an annual succession of new-for old?
I'd love to hear.
Best,
Dan.
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Don't know much about cycling psychology. I do know that a touring cyclist's most basic needs (excluding the bike, of course) are
1. Water
2. Food.
If you've ever experienced cycling in a remote area where simply getting clean drinking water is difficult - then everything else becomes irrelevant.
2. If you've run out of food and you're hungry enough, you'll eat practically anything.
Maybe this should spark off a new thread of tales which include items 1 and 2?
OK - back to the psychology!
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1. Water
2. Food.
If you've ever experienced cycling in a remote area where simply getting clean drinking water is difficult - then everything else becomes irrelevant.
2. If you've run out of food and you're hungry enough, you'll eat practically anything.
Maybe this should spark off a new thread of tales which include items 1 and 2?
Yes, but are we really ready for it? :P
Willing to give it a go...
All the best,
Dan. ("As the stomach turns...")