Author Topic: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England  (Read 7906 times)

Hoodatder

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2023, 08:05:34 pm »
Hi flocsy,

Brace yourself...I'm about to make you an offer that you can't refuse. Don't worry, your brains wont be spilled out out at the bottom of this reply.  :)

Take Matts advice and fly into Amsterdam, get the connecting flight to Humberside airport where I will collect you.

Stay at my house for the night. Buy my superbly equipped Raven Tour by bank transfer or cash and take it away to do your touring.

You can even use my panniers and camping & cooking equipment if you wish.

Return to my house after your touring and if you are not 100% happy with the bike, I will give you all your money back. It will not have cost you a penny, a cent or a shekel.

I will then take you to the airport - free of charge.

My advice?...Book the bike in the hold for the return journey because you are surely going to want it - assured. You know that you want it.

Now find a better offer than that. I have thrown down the gauntlet.

L'chaim.

Hoot

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2023, 08:40:56 pm »
Since I appear to be mentioned in the above post, I'll comment.
Looks like an offer than shouldn't be refused.

Heck, if I didn't already own one of these beautiful bikes, I'd be flying over myself asap.

Best

Matt
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PH

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2023, 09:48:48 pm »
Brace yourself...I'm about to make you an offer that you can't refuse.
What a great offer! 
It's better than the offer Thorn make on a brand new bike, I always thought that extremely generous, but they don't invite you to stay the night!

Hoodatder

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2023, 10:06:31 am »
Hi flocsy,

You could tour the border lines of Yorkshire from where I live.

You will see some stunning scenery and enjoy all the greenery you want.

Hope this helps.

Hoot

John Saxby

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2023, 02:41:28 pm »
Wow! (said the spectator.)  Let me coin a phrase: "It ain't what you know, it's who you know."  Ace bike and gear if needed.  Well done, guys.

Andre Jute

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2023, 01:13:28 am »
I don't wish to be negative, but I find the idea of flying into the UK and finding a specialised bike in a matter of days hugely optimistic.

I was about to say something in almost those words. I think that is the major negative of Flocsy's tour plan, too likely for my taste to lead to unforeseen delay and expense which could very easily consume the whole of a week's holiday.

I'm coming late to this thread so I haven't read the whole of it, but has anyone suggested yet that Flocsy, if for some reason he doesn't take up Hoot's generous offer, had better plan his tour from Bridgwater, and buy his bike from SJS, who may be a little more expensive but at a minimum will sell him a bike guaranteed fit for purpose, because that is their business and they are long proven masters at it, and in a sense Flocsy already knows them because he wants a Thorn for good reasons. It's what I would do, absent Hoot's amazing offer*.

If the bike isn't fully specified as required for the tour, SJS can also be counted on to supply and properly install whatever is required in line of a racks, mudguards, or whatever, and supply a package of touring spares (spare spokes, correct quick link for chain) and as cyclists themselves make an informed decision on which part-worn components like brake blocks or the chain require early retirement to assure a hassle-free tour.

Are you bringing tools with you, Flocsy, for the disassembly required before you can ship the bike by plane?

***
I should think a Rolloff-equipped bike is very desirable unless you have good experience of riding in derailleurs. A Rohloff is also desirable for many, many other immediate and longterm reasons, and is difficult to impossible for even a leadfoot like me to break. The chances of even a neglected second-hand Rohloff letting you down on a relatively easy tour in civilizatation are small.

A hub generator is also desirable unless you want to be bothered by charging batteries. It doesn't have to be the SON; the Shimanos and other well-reputed brands are perfectly good and in some ways (coming up to max output faster when you're riding in traffic) superior to the SON; I don't see that back home in Israel a SON will be a justifiable expense though it carries considerable bragging rights with cafe cyclists. The first proper car quality bicycle lamps were B&M's Cyo lamps, now in several series, about the strength of an old 6V VW Beetle, so don't reject them if they are already on the bike. An Edelux, a common upmarket lamp on Thorn bikes, is just a fancy Cyo dollied up with a bit of stainless steel by the Schmidt Machinenenbau, makers of the SON HGB; don't pay extra for it on a secondhand bike. I use my Cyo permanently switched on as daylight warning lamps, and their accompanying Linetech rear lamps (ugly and cheap-looking but exceedingly effective), also made by B&M, ditto.

*Re Hoot's offer, in the words of the Sage of Canadian Cyclists, "Wow! (said the spectator.)" Who you know, indeed! Bunch of righteous fellows on the Thorn Forum, for sure.


flocsy

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2023, 10:27:34 pm »
Andre, most of the topics you mentioned went through my mind in the past month. And one of the decisions I still have to make is how much the Son28 + dynamo lights + Plug + Cinq5 are important to me, how much is it worth to me second hand. I could probably do without them this year and maybe upgrade some time in the future, on the other hand I can't do without panniers and handlebar bag. But upgrading to dynamo hub means to buy a new wheel, etc, lots of things "wasted", so maybe it's worth to invest to it now, and I can search for some second hand panniers or buy a new, cheap one, or only buy rear + handlebar and add the front panniers when I'll really need them (most probably not for this year's 10 days tour in England) Any additional thought are welcome in this topic (not only from Andre :)

Tools: yes, that is a question I would've asked probably soon: what tools do I need:

a) for a 10 days tour (I have some cheap multitool, that has most* Allen keys, Philips, slot screw "driver", and even a chain tool *) It turned out that it's missing a 2mm Allen key, so I wasn't able to use it to adjust a new derailleur's limit screws) + pump + flat repair kit. I have a feeling that the chain tool is less helpful with Rohloff, and I guess I'll need to have a quick link + tool, am I right? I'm pretty sure I couldn't just remove a link.

b) for disassembling before flight (I've never did this with any bike, based on youtube I would think I'll have to have a pedal spanner, remove the front wheel (I think it's QR on most Thorns I've seen being sold) and regular Allen key to remove the stem. Is there anything I forgot?)

c) at home for long term servicing (especially that don't think I'll find anyone who knows Rohloff in Israel, so I'll need to do everything myself - I hope it'll be only changing oil yearly, and maybe changing the rear sprocket if I'll want to change gear ratios)

d) what else would be useful for a longer tour (next year)?

Andre Jute

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2023, 11:42:10 am »
Andre, most of the topics you mentioned went through my mind in the past month. And one of the decisions I still have to make is how much the Son28 + dynamo lights + Plug + Cinq5 are important to me, how much is it worth to me second hand.

You're overthinking this business. The key thing is that you want a sound frame and wheels and transmission. The rest are trimmings. You have to take the no lamps/battery lamps/gennie and lamps already fitted if you're lucky, on the best frame you find -- very probably on the first bike you visit -- because you don't have time to mess around travelling huge distances by train, and the expense of travel by public transport in the UK will soon make a big dent in your budget. Believe me, I know all about this because I had a friend who would come from overseas to stay with us in Cambridge for a week and hunt classic cars -- most days he would see one car (with me driving him, and I don't tarry on the roads), and it would be utterly unsuitable and the price intergalactic wishful thinking, and some years he bought nothing in six or seven days of looking.

The key words are "a specialist bike", as someone said above. That's why Hoot's offer is such a stunningly right fit for you if you can afford it: a bike used and fettled by a cyclist with experience of the brand and activity. It's a sort of guarantee that you can't get any other place except in Bridgwater from SJS themselves, which is why I suggested them to you.

The reason that I'm so keen to convey these realities to you is that three times in the last thirty years I've carefully investigated travelling to a foreign country to buy a rare bike or just a bike without any distribution where I live, which is in Ireland, and each time I've instead delayed making a decision until I found some reputable helpful party (it helps that I used to be a handy linguist who still remembers enough of most foreign languages to make a little polite smalltalk before switching to English) to ship a new bike to me instead, which in every case worked out much dcheaper and less hassle, even if the delays took considerable patience.

I don't see that you need a huge toolkit. A pump and a patch kit and a multitool will probably be enough. It's not like you're travelling to some Barbaricstan on the edge of the known world. The 2mm Allen and T20 torque bits missing from most multitools (but not the one SJS once sold and may still sell for its Thorn owners) useful on Rohloff bikes will probably not be required on a short tour; I can't remember when I last used mine. A pedal wrench and the multitool's standard Allen bits will again be useful to disassemble the bike for the plane.  If it wasn't to you he said it, get George to tell you again how long before he has to check in at the airport he arrives in order to disassemble his bike and pack it away.

How are you going to get the box for the bike to the airport? In fact, where are you going to get the box? I imagine an LBS will give or sell you a box, but they might not have a box handy because they trash them as the bikes are put on the floor or sold to be ridden away. As soon as you know at which airport you will leave from, find a nearby LBS and arrange by email for him to hold a suitable box for you.

Forget worrying about a Rohloff in Israel. In the ten years plus that I was the only Rohloff owner in Ireland (there might be two now), the only service my Rohloff required was an oil change, and if you've read this forum for a few years you'll discover that the few problems we hear about a) happened to known very high-milers, and b) have been designed out. The rest of what sounds like problems are usually just nervous newbies, or stubborn old guys who don't listen, having a panic fit because they heard metal graunching. It's one tough gearbox; by the standards of the mud racers for whom it was designed, touring is kindgarten use. Service it only with Rolloff-branded oils once a year or every 3000m/5000km, use it regularly, and forget about the gearbox; the rest of us already have.

In theory you identify the quick change link in the chain, squeeze in the middle of the side plates, and slide the plates off the pins. Still in theory, fixing the link in the chain requires you to position the side plates, squeeze in the middle again, and slide the keyhole slots over the heads of the pins, and bingo, you're riding again. I have particularly strong hands and fingers (a writer is a manual labourer -- he operates a keyboard all day long) and have never managed to do it without a specialised tool, of course sold by the same people who oversold the quick change chain links. The latest wheeze is that you need one tool to take it off, and another to put it on. In your camping kit you probably have another multitool with a small pair of pliers as one of the tools -- that will save you carrying two hefty dedicated tools. Or the chain tool on a multitool can be used in the middle of the link's side plates rather than directly on the pins.

By the way, if your camping multitool has a blade over three inches on it, leave it at home, get another, because in the UK you can be jailed, and you will certainly spend at least a night locked up until you can explain yourself to the magistrate in the morning, if the police catch you with a blade over three inches long. I'm not kidding you. Another painter was locked up in England for the knife he used to sharpen his pencil, and told me he was expected to wash and brush his teeth in the toilet in the police cell for three days until the magistrate held court on Monday and apologised to him "for the inconvenience" after he gave a demonstration of how to sharpen a pencil... Bizarro! For that much unhygienic "inconvenience" I could turn into a revolutionary again.

For the oil service, buy two of the small kits that give you one service, to get two syringes and tubes with threaded ends, one for inserting clean oil, one to extract dirty oil, then buy both the cleaning and the all-seasons oil in bulk; it's much cheaper. But you don't need to worry about that now. Ask the guy whose bike you buy if he'll service the Rohloff for you and watch what he does, instruction for you and a check that he actually does the job. If you ride a Rohloff bike around the block and it makes no complaint, you're good to go for a week or a month's tour.

The airline might ask you to drain the oil before you put the bike on the plane. George (Mickeg on this forum) has described travelling by air with oil in the gearbox and losing some of it. Sounds safe enough to me to leave it in and to tell the airline people if they're bolshie, "Oh, I drained it outside because I didn't know where I could dispose of the oil in here."

For a future long tour, you need to ask the many long tour experts here. I'm anyway a credit card tourer because my painting gear requires all the load capacity of my bike, leaving no capacity for camping and cooking gear.

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2023, 11:59:50 am »
Good points by Andre.
My only observation is that having flown with my Raven Tour and Rohloff hub 5 times (10 counting every flight ) with 3 different airlines, I've never been asked about oil in the hub.
And I've never lost any.
I appreciate some folks fly empty and refill on arrival.

Tires should be (!!) deflated but no other questions.
And on less than half the flights my box has never been weighed.

Just observations. For peace of mind I keep within weight limits. Nothing worse than having to repack a bike box at departures.
Re tire pressure; I'm economical with my answer.

Over thinking? A thief of your time.

Best

Matt
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flocsy

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2023, 04:21:10 pm »
@mickeg I believe you're George, sorry if I am mistaken.

You mentioned in the topic about the dynamo light taking apart the S&S coupled bike. How much time it requires for you (or better: how was the 1st time you did it) to disassembe/assemble? And what tools does one need to carry with him to be able to do this at the beginning/end of the tour?

John Saxby

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2023, 03:42:39 pm »
Flocsy,  A suggestion on tools: 

This Prestacycle kit (available from Ground Effect in New Zealand) is an A-grade product:
https://www.groundeffect.co.nz/collections/tools/products/ratchet-set-lightweight-compact-bike-tool-kit

I bought it for touring, and now also use it in my workshop. (I also take it with me on my weekly shift at our local bike-recycling org.)

A couple of notes:

>  I took everything out of the zipper case, put all the bits into another bit-holding mini-rack, added a lightweight quality 8 x 10 mm flat open-ended spanner (Filzer, if memory serves), and rolled the lot up into a Ziplog bag with a sturdy rubber band around it. I also included three long hex keys, with a ball end on the long shaft.  These are a 3mm (useful for removing the drain plug on the Rohloff), a 4 and a 5 mm. (Removing the padded zipper case was not a matter of weight, but of bulk -- I wanted something small enuf to fit easily into my seatbag.)

> the GE kit lacks pliers.  I user a folding mini pair made by Gerber.

Hope that's helpful.

Cheers,  John

flocsy

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2023, 11:55:48 pm »
By the way, if your camping multitool has a blade over three inches on it, leave it at home, get another, because in the UK you can be jailed, and you will certainly spend at least a night locked up until you can explain yourself to the magistrate in the morning, if the police catch you with a blade over three inches long. I'm not kidding you. Another painter was locked up in England for the knife he used to sharpen his pencil, and told me he was expected to wash and brush his teeth in the toilet in the police cell for three days until the magistrate held court on Monday and apologised to him "for the inconvenience" after he gave a demonstration of how to sharpen a pencil... Bizarro! For that much unhygienic "inconvenience" I could turn into a revolutionary again.

Ok, this is an important piece of information. I guess my standard Victorinox Swiss army knife is too big for that, and it even has a locking blade :(

https://myknifeguide.com/legal-carry-swiss-army/


PH

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2023, 03:00:32 am »
By the way, if your camping multitool has a blade over three inches on it, leave it at home, get another, because in the UK you can be jailed, and you will certainly spend at least a night locked up until you can explain yourself to the magistrate in the morning, if the police catch you with a blade over three inches long. I'm not kidding you. Another painter was locked up in England for the knife he used to sharpen his pencil, and told me he was expected to wash and brush his teeth in the toilet in the police cell for three days until the magistrate held court on Monday and apologised to him "for the inconvenience" after he gave a demonstration of how to sharpen a pencil... Bizarro! For that much unhygienic "inconvenience" I could turn into a revolutionary again.

Ok, this is an important piece of information. I guess my standard Victorinox Swiss army knife is too big for that, and it even has a locking blade :(

https://myknifeguide.com/legal-carry-swiss-army/
I wouldn't worry about it, no one in the UK has ever been arrested for carrying a  knife in a toolkit on a bike, for a start they'd need good reason to search, which has never happened to me or anyone I know. Andre's story is either a work of fiction or he's omitted some relevant detail.
Still best to have a legal knife, if it gets spotted at customs it'll be confiscated.

flocsy

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2023, 04:56:07 am »
How do british people slice bread at home?

martinf

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2023, 08:02:19 am »
I wouldn't worry about it, no one in the UK has ever been arrested for carrying a  knife in a toolkit on a bike, for a start they'd need good reason to search, which has never happened to me or anyone I know. Andre's story is either a work of fiction or he's omitted some relevant detail.
Still best to have a legal knife, if it gets spotted at customs it'll be confiscated.

I've been searched 3 times at UK customs when entering England.

Once on a bike. This was in the late 1970's. Customs made me open 2 of my 4 bags. The 5 inch fixed blade sheath knife I used for camping up till then was in a bag they didn't search. After that I replaced the sheath knife with a less useful penknife.

Once on foot, in the early 1980's. I had the penknife in my document pouch, so no problem.

In the mid 1980's I replaced the penknife with a French Opinel knife. I chose the model with a blade just under 3 inches long. The Opinel has a ring lock, so is much safer to use than an ordinary penknife as it won't fold up and cut your finger when using it. But it is technically illegal to carry it in public places in the UK.

Once, fairly recently, when taking a car over by ferry, Customs searched the car, but not the document pouch I was wearing. Since that search, when I visit the UK I try and remember to remove the Opinel from my pouch and replace it with a less useful Swiss multiblade knife. I think Customs would probably have confiscated my Opinel if they had found it and knew what it was, but I doubt they would have done anything else.

____________________________________

Apart from customs, I have been stopped and searched once in the UK when riding a bike. This was late at night in the mid 1970's when I was a teenager, I think the police were probably looking for drugs.

In the 43 years I have been living in France I have only been stopped once on a bike, and it was just a an identity check, no search.

Although I do far more cycling than driving, I have been stopped 3 times in France while driving motor vehicles, once was when the gendarmes systematically stopped a whole group of vehicles to do safety checks (they found a misaligned headlamp on the hire car I was driving), the other times were random breathalyser tests while driving a company vehicle.