Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Lighting and Electronics => Topic started by: jags on December 01, 2012, 02:37:29 pm
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hobbes and dan i promise i'll never ask again ;)
but stick up a link to your favourate front headlight bush +muller.
every time i look at these lights i get totally confused with all the numbers :-[
cheers lads
anto.
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Hi jags!
In truth, dynamo lighting is in a state of flux at the moment, with a number of new, great-sounding lights just arriving on the market. The best advice I can give is to wait a couple months and then read the reviews as these things hit the market and get actual use.
That's what I plan to do.
Meantime, I will continue to use my B&M Lumotec IQ Cyo R Senso Plus Black (with less bright/better dispersion 40 lux, taller beam). It is the one that retails for USD $107.00 on Peter White's site, here: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m-hl.asp I like the *amount* of light very much, but have also been extremely disappointed by the bright-white hotspot in the middle of the beam that mars the otherwise nice spread. When I ordered it, I *thought* I was getting the older-style reflector, but instead got the later job that results in a less ideal beam and that horrible hotspot that draws one's eyes to center on it, making the rest just so much beam-spill. Andre knows the difference, and so do I -- I rode at night through the NL's Green Heart and Hoge Veluwe next to a friend who had the old-style reflector/LED on his IQ Fly and still remember the velvety, even spread of light that was wonderful to behold. I desperately wish mine was like that; the older IQ Cyos were, till B&M changed them.
Of the three IQ Cyos SJS Cycles offer, I believe the one like I have is here: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/busch-and-muller-lumotec-iq-cyo-r-plus-40-lux-headlight-with-bracket-prod22818/
Jags, so you'll know better what to look for, here is how the name breaks down: B&M Lumotec IQ Cyo R Senso Plus Black means...
B&M = Busch & Müller or BUMM, maker
Lumotec = range
IQ = rear-aimed LED bounces light forward off a carefully shaped reflector
Cyo = series
R = reflectorized lens with nearfield illuminaton that starts the beam at about 1m from your front wheel. Less bright at 40lux but a closer, more even spread than the other (non "R") offering in the Cyo series.
Senso = Third position on the switch besides ON and OFF, this uses an electric eye to turn the light on/off automatically, as when entering/leaving a tunnel...or leave it on SENSO all the time and the light will turn on/off whenever it gets dark/light. Andre politely differs on the value of this feature, preferring instead to leave his on all the time for visibility. I prefer to turn mine off on long, car-free rural stretches in the desert so I can get maximum juice to charge the batteries, yet not forget the light when I need it. Just a difference in preference.
Plus = equipped with a standlight. This is a capacitor that stores electricity so the light will remain lit for up to 4 minutes or so when you are stopped, allowing you to remain visible at traffic lights or when trying to find the right key to your shed-door padlock.
Black = color. Also available in a silver/chromed case at a small upcharge if one prefers.
The "N" ("No") model you sometimes see has just the plain ON/OFF switch and no Senso (standlight) function and is a little less expensive as a result.
The model without the "R" in the name is the more powerful 60lux version that leaves a black hole in front of your wheel. It is therefore better suited for high-speed riding rather than slow or on bike paths/lanes, where you'd want to be able to see and avoid glass and debris at lower speeds.
Peter White also describes the new B&M Luxos at the same link above. It is available in two flavors, one having USB charging and a high price equivalent to a Cyo and a Tout Terrain The Plug2 combined. For no particular reason, I am deeply suspicious of the long-term life of the rechargeable battery it uses to provide charging and "panorama mode" lighting. Given what it costs, I surely hope it will be replaceable when/if it develops a "memory effect". All may indeed be well, but I wish BM had stayed with capacitors for the purpose, but understand why they could not, given the design. I will be a gentleman and let others go ahead of me in line so I can learn from their experiences before plunking down so much money when I already have something that wrorks. If it proves to be a corker in long-term use, then I can develop a case of "gottahavits".
My suggestion for you? Grab a Shimano dynohub wheel now(ish) while it is available at a good price. Get the color you want (black or silver) or it will bug you all the while you own it. Then, wait a bit till the lights sort themselves out. I realize this means you might not have a working dyno-powered light setup for awhile, but it will assure you get a great combo for the least money overall. Andre has generously offered you an older-model, non-LED light that would at least let you use the setup and would get you by for awhile til the perfect LED light shows up at a good price. If you went for the newer AXA Nano/Nano Plus model Rualexander has referenced, you would have a light and charging system all in one, catching many of the features of the new B&M Luxos for a fraction of the price. It looks nice, and the design is very clean as well. It makes a lot of sense. I haven't used or seen one myself, but it has all the needed ingredients and I trust Rualexander's firsthand experience with his AXA Nano Plus in actual use. To read more about it in his posts, go to:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4121.msg24549#msg24549
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4121.msg24605#msg24605
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4121.msg27687#msg27687
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=5129.msg27025#msg27025
I plan to read up on it a bit more myself.
I hope this helps.
All the best,
Dan.
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Dan your a gent thanks a million for that really appreciate it,
ca n you believe that wheel i'm after is still not in stock :o
if it's not in by next week i will go looking at Andre's xxcycles maybe i should have gone ther in the beginning.
but yeah i will hold on for the light until later in the year i'm in no hurry.
thanks again Dan.
jags.
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When I ordered it, I *thought* I was getting the older-style reflector, but instead got the later job that results in a less ideal beam and that horrible hotspot that draws one's eyes to center on it, making the rest just so much beam-spill. Andre knows the difference, and so do I -- I rode at night through the NL's Green Heart and Hoge Veluwe next to a friend who had the old-style reflector/LED on his IQ Fly and still remember the velvety, even spread of light that was wonderful to behold. I desperately wish mine was like that; the older IQ Cyos were, till B&M changed them.
Of the three IQ Cyos SJS Cycles offer, I believe the one like I have is here: http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/busch-and-muller-lumotec-iq-cyo-r-plus-40-lux-headlight-with-bracket-prod22818/
The one to get is the 60 lux version
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/busch-and-muller-lumotec-cyo+-60-led-headlight-with-bracket-prod18717/
I have this on three of our bikes and it has always been an excellent light - no problems with any 'hot-spot'. It has a great road beam with a good horizon - just brighter than the German lighting standard - fine anywhere else.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3409/3333375495_5c25707f7d_z.jpg)
Useful beam comparison between the 40 lux and the 60 lux senso plus is made here:
http://www.longleafbicycles.com/products/dynohubs-and-lighting/dynamo-headlights/busch-muller-iq-cyo-senso-plus-chrome/
One point that I agree with about the lack of close illumination
Some people don’t like this dark zone. I personally never found it to be a problem because anything in that dark zone will have passed through the illuminated beam because it gets close too my bicycle (I am excepting suicidal nocturnal squirrels who might dart in front of me at the last minute, but I don’t plan my component choices around such rarities and figure if something can dart into a dark patch four meters in front of my bicycle I’m not going to be able to avoid it whether it is illuminated or not.)
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Anto, before I saw this thread, in which you've basically been told everything I say, I sent this to another thread:
just found my headlight on there Andre good price i tried to stool my daughter to buy it for my for my christmas pressie ,
she said it was 45 euro to much :( ah well guess i gotta wait.
http://www.xxcycle.com/php/boutique/page.php?nom=PANIER&key=27566&action=ajouter
Jags, that Fly is a reasonable lamp -- for what it is. I gave it a good review as an E-lamp, suitable for electric bikes, because everything else was more expensive. But, by itself, it has a serious fault that will bother you every time you ride it. Dan understood my remark about the hot spot being "deeply unfortunate" correctly. as condemning the lamp for any but electrified cyclists.
My advice would be to look out for a new old stock (NOS) or secondhand first series CYO nearfield lamp (this is the one with the reflector and R in the number, 40 lux) which is a fundamentally more agreeable lamp, and eminently suitable for all kinds of riding in Ireland. I have one, not in use right now, but I'm hanging on to it in case I get to deelectrify. (My cardiac team has just put me on six month review and my GP is smiling all over her face at how well I've recovered.) You don't want the lamp with the daylight running lights under the main lamp -- that's just the Fly I have repackaged, complete with irritating hotspot. You don't need the "senso" because sensible people leave the light running day and night, but you do need the "plus" to keep the light shining at stop streets. However, most of the lamps offered on ebay at a decent price have both facilities, so you just take them.
Here's one that looks to be the right model for €49 delivered (could be a display model judging by the packacing): http://www.ebay.de/itm/Lumotec-Cyo-senso-plus-40-Lux-Fahrradleuchte-LED-B-M-Fahrradlampe-NEU-/230885726855?pt=Sport_Radsport_Fahrradteile&hash=item35c1dc9a87#ht_1299wt_1258
Andre Jute
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Thanks lads yeah very confusing as to what the perfect light is :-\
but unless the family pool there money together( i'm working on this strategy ;))i will have to wait until the new year to get the one i want.
i reckon on night rides i will also be taking my new cateye lamp so should have plenty of good ligh to see and be seen. if you ever come across the older version Andre give me a shout please.
anyway thanks guys for the info much appreciated.
Anto.
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The one to get is the 60 lux version
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/busch-and-muller-lumotec-cyo+-60-led-headlight-with-bracket-prod18717/
I have this on three of or bikes and it has always been a great beam - no problems with any 'hot-spot'. It has a great road beam with a good horizon - just brighter than the German lighting standard - fine anywhere else.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3409/3333375495_5c25707f7d_z.jpg)
Depends where you ride and how fast you ride. Here in Ireland, where Jags and I ride, even the little sidespill, and the light in front of the wheel, are very valuable because the roads and lanes are in bad condition, with severely broken verges, and instant dropoffs into deep, icy ditches overgrown with thorny gorse. You really want to see them, and the 60 lux lamp's light starts too far in front of the wheel, and has too little sidespill, to serve here.
I should perhaps say I have both lamps, the nearfield or R 40 lux, and the sports 60 lux, and on the bike with the 60 lux lamp I go only on main roads in the middle of the night when I know there won't be enough cars to force me into an unseen rail... When I want to speed in the lanes, I use the less powerful Cyo R and thank God I had the sense to buy it despite the urgings of the "sporting set". I can't even see there is a difference in throw at the extremity between the two lamps. So, just to be clear (he-heh!), I prefer the 40 lux by a huge, huge margin.
All of this refers to the first series Cyo. The Cyo with a T in the number for daylight running lights, and the second series Cyo are simply rubbish in all their models, including the Fly. I have their optics in a current series IQ Fly specialized for e-bikes, same as the optics in Dan's second series Cyo, and I explain in a post above why it's a constant pain. By the time I start riding at night again I'll have time to rig up my first series Cyo R with the battery, but meanwhile I feel for Dan. You don't want to pay that kind of money for a lamp that irritates every second it shines.
Andre Jute
PS Jags, I wouldn't make any promises about not asking again. Right now lamps are probably the most vexing and expensive business about bikes, and there are bound to be further complications before it sorts itself. This is the place to ask; we'll all need to lean on each other's experience if we're not all to make expensive mistakes.
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but stick up a link to your favourate front headlight bush +muller.
I am pretty happy with my Busch & Muller Lumotec IQ Cyo Senso Plus front light, model number 175QCSNDi (http://aushiker.com/gear-note-lumotec-iq-cyo-senso-plus-light-first-impressions/) which I have installed my Surly Long Haul Trucker (http://www.aushiker.com/2008/11/surly-long-haul-trucker-lht-touring-bike-a-first-time-build-experience/) (whoops :)).
(http://i1.wp.com/www.aushiker.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/IMG_2751.jpg?resize=550%2C412)
Andrew
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I like the *amount* of light very much, but have also been extremely disappointed by the bright-white hotspot in the middle of the beam that mars the otherwise nice spread. When I ordered it, I *thought* I was getting the older-style reflector, but instead got the later job that results in a less ideal beam and that horrible hotspot that draws one's eyes to center on it, making the rest just so much beam-spill.
I guess my Cyo is the earlier model as I bought a couple about 5-7 years ago and the one on our tandem (less often in use) about 3 years ago. However this hot spot problem may simply be a case of adjusting your aim ???
See the beam shots for the Cyo on this updated version of Peter White's lighting photos (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.asp). If the light is tilted a bit lower down the beam does develop a bright centre that is washed out.
Equally interesting to see the image from a light mounted at front axle height - the beam is dramatically altered. Having the mount too high eg. above handlebar height will lead to a light that poorly illuminates bumps and potholes. The generally most desirable mount height is around your fork crown height.
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However this hot spot problem may simply be a case of adjusting your aim
Hi Pete! Excellent suggestion, but sadly...not to be in my case. It is the reflector. :'( The generally most desirable mount height is around your fork crown height.
Agreed! That's why I went with an IQ Fly canti mount to lower the light from where it would have sat with the stock Cyo mount. The Nomad crown hole is higher than "normal" (and higher than my Sherpa crown mount was), so the lower mount puts the light in the proper place.
Great ideas, though, and -- yes! -- aim can make a world of difference. One of the great joys of a hub- or lowrider-mounted headlight is it skims across the tops of potholes and such and brings them out in stark relief. The downside? Less noticeable to oncoming cars, and too much of a good thing, as much detail gets lost in the "skimming". Still a very good idea for some applications, though.
All the best,
Dan. (Who's feeling a little "light-headed" reading this thread... :D)
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I must admit, looking at those beam photos from Peter White again, the best beam for me would have to be the Supernova E3 Pro glare-free lens. It has the brightness on the road, lights up closer than the Cyo and is wider to boot. I have the symmetrical E3 Pro on my Nomad and an original E3 on the road bike. I was always put off by the glare-free lens as being dimmer (305 lumens vs. 370 lumens), but the road beam is brighter if anything.
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...looking at those beam photos from Peter White again...<nods> Yes, Pete, those beamshots are *really* helpful and I've gone back again and again for another look. I just have to remind myself of three things:
1) The beams are brighter than they look in real life (due to camera exposure).
2) The beams are shown on a gravel road, rather than on asphalt, so they look brighter (due to environmental factors).
3) Wet pavement just "eats" light, due to scatter.
Best,
Dan. (...going back for another look myself!)
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Peter White also describes the new B&M Luxos....
....I will be a gentleman and let others go ahead of me in line so I can learn from their experiences before plunking down so much money when I already have something that wrorks. If it proves to be a corker in long-term use, then I can develop a case of "gottahavits"
Ah, thanks Dan. Your comments just reminded me of a number of experiences I have had in the past with disappointing results, when I was ahead of the pack in purchasing new gear. The discontinued Shimano ax cranks and pedals come to mind (still have these in the workshop :() and the failure of the rather cool SunTour Tech rear derailleur :(
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s269/caterham1700/bikes004.jpg)
(http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/SunTour_Superbe_Tech_L_derailleur_(4800)_files/IMGP6833%20(1)-filtered.jpg)
I think I'll hang off on purchasing the Luxos for a while.
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I would second the B&M Lumotec IQ Cyo R Senso Plus as mentioned by Dan. I think the reflector equipped model is better for touring bikes based on their speed in use. I found the same light on a German web site and after becoming aware that there was a difference between the 2011 and 2012 model (the distracting spot in the middle of the field of light in the 2012 model) I was happy to see the light listed as a 2011 model.
A few days later when I went to order from the same site it had changed to the 2012 model! >:( I went ahead and ordered it anyway. The spot of light is a little distracting but I am happy with the light. It provides a good beam as Peter White's excellent photos show. What I don't like is the provided bracket - I would recommend getting another bracket, especially the Thorn one ... the Rolls Royce of front light brackets!
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-alloy-dynamo-headlamp-bracket-m5-fork-crown-mounting-black-prod12373/ (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-alloy-dynamo-headlamp-bracket-m5-fork-crown-mounting-black-prod12373/)
I have just today checked the web site where I obtained the B&M Lumotec IQ Cyo R Senso Plus, and the model is now listed as a 2013 model!
Just wondering if the 2013 model is the same as the 2011 without the central spot of light? ??? Has anyone bought the 2013 model and can confirm the 'spot' has gone?
It would be good to see updated photos for this front lamp on Peter White's site comparing the 2011/2012/2013 models of the B&M Lumotec IQ Cyo R Senso Plus!
As for hub dynamos that is the way to go. Though the high cost of a wheel build and SON dynamo with Andra Rigid CSS rims (my goal) has made me hold off from that for the moment. I considered a Shimano dynamo hub wheel but as the goal is the SON build from SJS Cycles, I took the interim step of getting the excellent Nordlicht 2000 bottle dynamo. Runs both the front B&M Lumotec IQ Cyo R Senso Plus and Busch + Müller Toplight Line brake plus LED Rear Light very well. Not that loud in operation and can be run on the rim as well as the tyre side wall.
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/nordlicht-2000-sidewall-bottle-dynamo-prod1064/ (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/nordlicht-2000-sidewall-bottle-dynamo-prod1064/)
It has got the lighting system up and running till I scrape the money together for an expedition SON wheel build!
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I need a headlamp with connectors so I can remove it before the locals do.
I commuted for many years with a battery driven twin halogen bulbed headlamp.
I started my 'led' headlamp phase with a Solidlights, then upgraded it to an XB2.
The Solidlights had a conical shape beam with a lot of scatter, useful on dark country lanes but difficult to avoid dazzling traffic in front of you. It also had a flashing option which I did not use.
The connectors were nice to use, but very difficult to change as you had 4 miniscule wires to try and solder in place.
Leds moved on, I sold the Solidlights and got a Supernova with the non dazzle lens, liked it.
Upgraded to the E3 Pro non dazzle and that is what I currently use. I like it the most of what I have had.
The gold connectors make it easy to wire it where you want and they are wearing well with use.
I drive mine with a SON dynohub, it gets bright quite quickly.
Like Andre, I run with the lights on all the time.
I would now like the option to drive a charging port from the headlamp, come on Supernova…
Julian.
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Nice to see the Rolls-Royce bracket SJS makes for the lucky few... Thanks, Stuntpilot. I've saved the reference because it looks like such a versatile, solid design that I'll probably need sooner rather than later.
I'll give you one in return. A problem with heavy lamps is vibration. The answer is a solid nylon bracket. Another problem with the fat tyres, from about 47mm up, that many now fit, quite severe with my 60mm Big Apples, which are huge, is that the front tyre interferes with the lamp's throw, and casts a shadow just where you don't want it. The anwer is to make the post taller. This nylon bracket from BUMM solves both problems:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/busch-and-muller-light-bracket-in-plastic-long-prod22450/
Interesting to see that someone else also runs a tyre wall dynamo. I still have one on my Gazelle Toulouse, an Axa HR, where the designer specified it presumably to save weight on the "stadssportief", a town and country bike, what the Dutch call a holiday bike, what you and I might call a commuter with sporting pretensions. The thing is about 23kg in dayride trim, and price wasn't the question, but he saved perhaps 100gr or something by speccing a rim generator rather than one in the hub! It works a treat though.
Julk, I take up making your own charging port in another thread.
Andre Jute
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eh lads did you guys discuss this light ::)
http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1343/a81183/lumotec-iq2-luxos-b-led-scheinwerfer.html?mfid=445
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...did you guys discuss this light...
Eh yep! This is the new, super-duper model about to be introduced by B&M, the Luxos, jags. It looks fantastic on paper, but is very expensive (as much as a charger and light together 'cos it combines both). Pete (Il Padrone) is with me and Andre on this one...wait for the test results before developing a fully-blown case of the gottahavits. It seems the second and third generations usually solve any problems for less money or just a bit more. Remember the iPod. I do believe we're about to see ever-better integration of lights and charging in one unit, a la Rualexander's AXA Nano Plus. There's a nifty bit of design integration.
You've found what is probably the best price on the Luxos I've seen, but there's two models, a super-duper and one that is merely "super". Also, this is a pre-production price. Peter White is currently accepting "reservations" for his first lot of 20 or so...but says he will email those interested as to any price increase at time of arrival.
jags, we'll be seeing a lot of new lights early in the coming new year, so no doubt it will be a hot topic on the Forum for the next while. Stay tuned!
All the best,
Dan. (...who thinks the future looks very bright indeed)
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Eh yep! This is the new, super-duper model about to be introduced by B&M, the Luxos, jags. It looks fantastic on paper, but is very expensive (as much as a charger and light together 'cos it combines both). Pete (Il Padrone) is with me and Andre on this one...wait for the test results before developing a fully-blown case of the gottahavits. It seems the second and third generations usually solve any problems for less money or just a bit more.
I definitively agree that there is some exciting stuff on its way, but I think people are going to have to wait 18 months or so before second and third generation stuff comes out, right now I would go with something like a edelux and separate plug 2 because they are tried and tested products. Realistically its going to be next summer before the new B&M luxos has any kind of track record (looks like a good product but we need to see how it holds up to real world usage).
So anyone who is planning on holding off for a month or so for the new luxos, my advice would be if you cant wait any longer, go out and buy something now with a proven track record, but if you could hold off until say this time next year then the choice should be a lot better.
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So anyone who is planning on holding off for a month or so for the new luxos, my advice would be if you cant wait any longer, go out and buy something now with a proven track record, but if you could hold off until say this time next year then the choice should be a lot better.
Thing is, Zero, that Dan and Il Padrone and I all have decent lamps already, so we're not actually hurting for a lamp just to get going. We're not riding in the dark. But if someone is buying his first dynowheel now it is an awful quandary: the good lamps are not cheap disposable items, so does he buy now or does he wait for the possibly better lamps? That is why I offered Jags my old BUMM halogen lamp, which may not be ideal but will at least give him the choice being able to ride with his dynohub wheel while he decides whether to buy what's available, or to wait for the supposedly superduper lamps coming.
The whole thing is complicated by the BUMMSON glee club's entirely unfounded but apparently ineradicable subtext that BUMM makes the best lamps. It doesn't. The first series Cyo was the first BUMM dynamo lamp that was better than merely adequate, and briefly it was the best dyno lamp in the world. But, quite contrary to Dan's casual statement that the second series Luxos will be better, the evidence is that BUMM screwed the pooch conclusively through several loudly touted "improvements" to the Cyo and its workalike sister, the IQ Fly, until now these lamps are visibly inferior to the first series. But here we go again, everyone in a tizzy about the new BUMM lamp, months before it arrives. I've learned my lesson; I'm not giving BUMM my money until I see independent shots of the light throw.
I would also say this. The BUMMSON glee club sang hallelujahs when the D'Lumotec halogen BUMM appeared. It was a rubbish lamp, marginally good enough to be seen, not good enough to see by. So it was better than the rubbish that went before; so what? Better than the rubbish before doesn't equal good enough. Good enough is a fixed standard.
Now the first series Cyo was in fact good enough. It was -- is, because it's lifespan is 50k hours, so it will be around a long time on the second-hand market! -- a lamp better than the 6V lamps they used to have on cars within living memory, on VW Beetles until very late. It's an important landmark, a breakpoint in bicycle lamps. It's buttery smooth, it has plenty of light, it cuts off flat and doesn't irritate drivers, and it has only two faults (not sufficiently water resistant to use on mudguardless bikes, not enough sidethrow for narrow and rough roads).
And then BUMM messed with success...
Any BUMM lamp that follows can only be better than the first series Cyo by throwing more light. With the addional light comes the problem of controlling it, so that it doesn't act as a beacon aiming motorists directly at you, a pathfinder for the accident you're about to become. The only way the Luxos can improve on the first Cyo in a practical way is to be a) perfectly waterproof and b) use some of the extra lumens to light up the road to the sides. The current information is that BUMM with their railroad vision haven't done either of those things. They have just thrown the more light further up the road.
Frankly, I'm of the opinion that anyone who now holds off buying a necessary lamp to wait for the Luxos is a fashion victim.
If you take care not to be caught in the trap of the subsequent Cyo/Fly series with first the daylight running extra LEDs, and the hotspot (aaargh!), there are really good lamps available at a third of what even the base model BUMM Luxos will cost.
Let me list them.
• First series Cyo 40 Lux with Reflector, still available in shops, and likely to be available secondhand for years
• First series Cyo 60 Lux, inferior to the 40 Lux unless you ride only on good roads, and no better for them than the 40 Lux, but the sporting set likes big numbers
• Philips Saferide, made by people who always have their minds in gear, in many ways a superior lamp to the Cyo (waterproof, designed with due regard for what you ride beside), but most places more expensive because it isn't so generally discounted. See http://www.philips.co.uk/c/bicycle%20bulbs/283657/cat/ -- many more models available via German Ebay. I might go for this one next if the hotspot on my IQ Fly-E becomes too irritating. I should have chosen it first... except I believed the misleading BUMM publicity photographs.
• Axa Nano -- you can get a description of the models on this board, where it has experienced fans. Available with USB charger built in, right NOW, which to my mind removes the slightest reason to wait for the Luxos.
Andre "The Enlightened" Jute
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I have a Schmidt son hub running a fly on 1 bike and a cyo n on another I find light output is pretty similar
The fly has a slightly wider beam to the cyo which is a bit tighter.
lux and lumen ratings are all about distance and hotspots and camera shots are often misleading.
I recently took a 10 watt halogen smart battery light out with the iq fly outshone the halogen 10 watt!
The halogen had a bit of wasted light up in the air and to the sides.
The cyo seems to be a little better for higher speeds.
Also recommend the topline plus it is a great taillight!
Here is a useful link I have used
http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/tips.html
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The fly has a slightly wider beam to the cyo which is a bit tighter.
lux and lumen ratings are all about distance and hotspots and camera shots are often misleading.
I recently took a 10 watt halogen smart battery light out with the iq fly outshone the halogen 10 watt!
Here is a useful link I have used
http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/tips.html
Welcome, Trebor.
Yes, that's what I found, that the Fly has a bit more sidespill and beam width than the Cyo, which cuts my speed in my lanes because it is too narrow to show the ditch or even the badly broken rim-breaker edge of the road. As for camera shots being misleading, well of course they are, but they generally are misleading on the side of flattering incompetent lamps, not in showing less light than a lamp throws. Nobody thinks the Cyo/Fly throws too little light. What we're querying is whether the light is thrown in the right place. With reference to the hotspot, you won't see it in the first series Cyo: it is a particular complaint about the later series, which has a different reflector.
Andre Jute
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well i'm still hankering after the bush and muller new light but cant afford it just yet.
i have courtesy of hobbs the BnM Lumotec sensor plus headlight, pretty good but no where as bright as the battery power Cateye HL-EL 540 excellent light and tail light is bnm top light excellent light.
btw i found the best place to buy is bikediscount great prices on gear and lights.
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Does anyone have beam shots of these lights and the Edelux? How does that Edelux really do?
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Hi No!
The best collection of beam shots can be found on Peter White's site, here: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.asp
The Edelux is a very fine light indeed, but there are others that now do well also. The Edelux is essentially a variant on the B&M IQ Cyo series, but made with premium materials: Anodized alu housing (in black, red, or even silver to match SON and Rohloff hubs) and glass lens instead of plastic for both housing and lens on the Cyo. The Edelux also uses a more robust coaxial supply wire and a magnetic reed switch. The beam pattern of the Edelux is closer to the very nice one on the original B&M IQ Fly and Cyo, before B&M wrecked them by adding a fifth facet that puts a hot-spot of light in the otherwise evenly smooth, white beam. The Edelux does not offer the option of a near-field beam that lights to within a meter or so of the front wheel, as the Cyo does.
Best,
Dan.
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I have the Edelux on my Nomad. I can't compare it to anything else really... none of my other bikes have lights that are at all comparable... but the Edelux does indeed work very well. I live out in the country where there are no lights at all and I can right on a pitch black moonless night and see the road very nicely. I actually feel safer riding at night than in the day! Of course my night-time riding equipment is not limited to the Edelux headlight - I have a tail light and spoke reflectors and pedal reflectors and lots of reflective tape on my bike. But if e.g. a car pulls up at an intersection ahead of me, their headlights are aiming across the road and it's pretty much my Edelux alone that announces my presence. Cars will wait for me to pass rather than pulling out right in front of me. I am more visible at night than during the day.
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I am more visible at night than during the day.
At night with the Edelux, they mistake you for a motorcycle. If they knew you were a bicycle, they pull onto the road in stead of waiting.
Andre Jute
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Hi No!
The best collection of beam shots can be found on Peter White's site, here: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.asp
The Edelux is a very fine light indeed, but there are others that now do well also. The Edelux is essentially a variant on the B&M IQ Cyo series, but made with premium materials: Anodized alu housing (in black, red, or even silver to match SON and Rohloff hubs) and glass lens instead of plastic for both housing and lens on the Cyo. The Edelux also uses a more robust coaxial supply wire and a magnetic reed switch. The beam pattern of the Edelux is closer to the very nice one on the original B&M IQ Fly and Cyo, before B&M wrecked them by adding a fifth facet that puts a hot-spot of light in the otherwise evenly smooth, white beam. The Edelux does not offer the option of a near-field beam that lights to within a meter or so of the front wheel, as the Cyo does.
Best,
Dan.
Man, I just saw this Luxos B or U or whatever the fancier version is, thing.
Man, that beam was WIDE.
I bet the Edelux is going to have some running for it's money over that one.
VERY WIDE!
Like, so wide you can see the skunks and snakes and crap that are going to cause you problems. I mean, WIDE! WIDE!
And bright too.
On that note, what is the brightest hub powered tail light?
[Minor language edit by Dan to address a concern that was raised]
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Hi No!
If I were going for the *brightest* dyno-powered taillight, I'd probably custom etch a board to drive a Dinotte 400R taillight for results like this: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dinotte+400r&oq=dinotte+400r&gs_l=youtube.3..0.91545.94086.0.94224.12.9.0.3.3.0.220.1173.4j3j2.9.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.445-yFfpK-o
...or this: http://www.dinottelighting.com/Photography.htm# (see two photos at lower-right of the page when it opens)
...But I wouldn't want the *brightest* dyno-powered taillight. Why?
• A single point of light makes it harder for closing car drivers to accurately judge distance to the light.
• A too-bright light can blind or distract following drivers and is horrible to follow in a paceline or on a nighttime randonneur.
• A too-bright taillight can serve as a magnet for drunk drivers.
A better approach seems to be a reasonably bright dyno-powered taillight that has a larger surface area, something big enough for drivers to accurately gauge distance. B&M have something like that in their Toplight Line Plus, and Philips has their LumiRing taillight based on the same principle of a couple LEDs' output being dispersed through a fresnel lens to create a wider, larger output than could be provided by the LEDs and their prefocused lenses alone.
I have gone this route myself and am very happy with the outcome when augmented by a 1-watt LED blinky for use in heavy traffic or in areas with limited sightlines or for daylight-visible use. I set the battery-powered LED blinky to the "blink" setting and use it with the solid Toplight Line Plus for what seems the best of both worlds for daytime and nighttime use. My LED blinkys of choice are either the 1-watt Blackburn Mars 4.0 or the PDW (Portland Design Works) Radbot 1000, also rated at 1-watt. Battery life with both is good if you power them with Sanyo/Panasonic Eneloop batteries. A photo of my two lights (Toplight Line Plus powered by the dynohub and the PDW Radbot 1000 powered by batteries) in daylight is here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.msg17272#msg17272 Direct view here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3896.0;attach=1066;image The result in daytime is as bright as car brake-lights -- considerably brighter at night -- and it is hard to imagine a need for more in most circumstances.
A fuller discussion of the Toplight Line Plus is available here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4055.msg18290#msg18290
A quick search of the lighting board will turn up more references to taillights, including a link to Andre Jute's excellent photo-essay on the topic.
Best,
Dan.
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Have you ever seen one of those toplights compared to a 400r? I have a 400r so that's my point of reference.
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Have you ever seen one of those toplights compared to a 400r? I have a 400r so that's my point of reference.
Yes, by coincidence this very morning while on the bike.
The Dinotte 400R is an incredibly bright light, no doubt about it.
My B&M Toplight Line Plus is bright -- "bright" for a dyno-powered light.
In terms of sheer lumens, there's no comparison. The Dinotte 400R wins out *easily* for Brightest honors.
However -- and this is a personal-choice thing, so no one right or wrong answer -- I think I'd prefer not to go for the absolute brightest available 'cos of the problems that can arise compared to the Toplight Line Plus I'm running now, which is steady, wide, and gives motorists a point of reference for more accurately judging distance at night.
I still have my 1-watt LED blinkys (with solid-on option) for daytime conspicuity in heavy traffic or for nighttime augmentation of the Toplight Line Plus in some circumstances as need be.
I do know when I followed the Dinotte 400R (and it was on), it made me more than a little sick to my stomach -- it was just that bright. In daytime. I have seen them at night, but couldn't bear to look at them for more than a glance or two. The last one I saw when it was raining, and it was just overwhelming. :P
Some people (and me too in the past) have used a headlight with a red fresnel filter as a taillight. It sure was bright, but I received complaints, as I might expect if I used the Donotte 400R in some conditions.
Best,
Dan. (...who thinks causing night-blindness in a closing driver might not be ideal)
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There used to be a Dinotte demonstration -- it might even have been official -- on You Tube that showed the light turned down to the road, and the sidespill and reflection lighting up the bike, so that it rode in a cone of red warning light. I thought that very clever for city use. But on the open road it would cut into the distance at which the driver sees the cyclist, which is undesirable.
Andre Jute
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I've gone a different way with my commuter bike (a converted GT hard tail with Schwalbe Duremes, rear rack and mudguards). Fibre Flares (http://fibreflare.com/) on my fork legs (white shorties) and on my seat stays (red full size). They are fantastic for making the bike visible to cars from all angles without blinding others. You don't need four lights - I got carried away. But I love the way they look on the bike.
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Fibre Flares...
Thanks for this, Sammy!
My, this surely illustrates the value of surface area for increased conspicuity. Yes, bright-spots of light surely aid visibility, but having a mass of non-blinding "glow" helps as well. FibreFlares appear neon-like in the video.
Best,
Dan. (...who is always fascinated by bright, shiny things...and if they blink, so much the better!)
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Oh! Don't forget MonkeyLectric. Those lights are cool looking.
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I've gone a different way with my commuter bike (a converted GT hard tail with Schwalbe Duremes, rear rack and mudguards). Fibre Flares (http://fibreflare.com/) on my fork legs (white shorties) and on my seat stays (red full size). They are fantastic for making the bike visible to cars from all angles without blinding others. You don't need four lights - I got carried away. But I love the way they look on the bike.
Have you tried that helmet version? I wonder what it feels like weight wise. I don't appreciate the weight of my helmet light that much so I'm curious
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I purchased a Dinotte 400R a couple of years ago.
In the beginning, they posted me a box containing lots of mounting hardware but no light, but some email correspondence sorted that out and the light duly arrived.
It was fantastic for daylight use, but the Audax crowd heaped opprobrium on me if I used it in the dark. It did have the advantage of allowing me to draft the pack on a permanent basis without complaints.
Then, sadly, I arrived at work one morning and it was no longer attached to my Thorn :(
I just couldn't stump up the cash for another one and I now use Ayups with the red caps, which are more user friendly for following riders but still remarkably effective.
A major component of the expense was the postage to Australia from the Yewessay... Ayup HQ is a kilometre from home so I can shop locally.
I think every second bike I see on my commute is fitted with Ayups on at least one end!
Cheers,
pj
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It was fantastic for daylight use, but the Audax crowd heaped opprobrium on me if I used it in the dark. It did have the advantage of allowing me to draft the pack on a permanent basis without complaints.
A most advantageous lamp!
Andre Jute
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I think ultra bright tail lights are as offensive as undipped headlights and as dangerous.
I caught a chap going down hill with one of these super bright tail lights on. Trouble was, even at bicycle closing speeds it was impossible to judge his distance, or even his positioning on the road. Do you really want cars roaring up behind you dazzled, blinded or eyes shut?? and worse if they are looking through a wet screen :o or if they look up from their phones :'(
On night Audax they are truly nasty to follow as well :-X
One might say the lighting equivalent of shouting louder at folk who don't speak your language ::)
Toplight line plus gets my vote and gets me a wide berth from passing traffic.
Happynights
Ian
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Toplight line plus gets my vote and gets me a wide berth from passing traffic.
<nods> Seems to work well for me as my prime taillight also, Ian. I only use the 1-watt LED blinky when in need of daylight conspicuity in heavy car-commute traffic or in other special circumstances when I might otherwise be overlooked. One pair of AA Eneloops last a long time between rechargings in such infrequent use.A major component of the expense was the postage to Australia from the Yewessay... Ayup HQ is a kilometre from home so I can shop locally.
I think every second bike I see on my commute is fitted with Ayups on at least one end!
Peter, seeing the beamshots of the Ayup lights might just reverse the balance of trade. They look ideal for my occasional off-road night touring. Such a shame someone pinched your 400R while parked. Nasty thieves, stealing other people's things >:(
Best,
Dan.
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I purchased a Dinotte 400R a couple of years ago.
In the beginning, they posted me a box containing lots of mounting hardware but no light, but some email correspondence sorted that out and the light duly arrived.
It was fantastic for daylight use, but the Audax crowd heaped opprobrium on me if I used it in the dark. It did have the advantage of allowing me to draft the pack on a permanent basis without complaints.
Then, sadly, I arrived at work one morning and it was no longer attached to my Thorn :(
I just couldn't stump up the cash for another one and I now use Ayups with the red caps, which are more user friendly for following riders but still remarkably effective.
A major component of the expense was the postage to Australia from the Yewessay... Ayup HQ is a kilometre from home so I can shop locally.
I think every second bike I see on my commute is fitted with Ayups on at least one end!
Cheers,
pj
On steady the 400R can be dimmed by a LOT, but that was too bright?
And triaesthete, what country do you live in? Cycling can be very different in different parts of the world.
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On steady the 400R can be dimmed by a LOT, but that was too bright?
I have no doubt you are correct, but I don't recall reading the instructions... that's one of my failings in life.
Sometimes I think it's a pity that Life itself doesn't have a manual. I would have done of things differently in the last 62 years. ;)
Cheers,
pj
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Hi No
cycling is indeed varied across the world, much like peoples opinions across this forum. Vive la difference!
One thing I've always enjoyed about the company of cyclists is the broad spectrum of educated and insightful opinions they collectively hold and a general willingness to discuss and on occasion modify them. I can't think of much less exciting than loads of "like minded people" agreeing with each other and seeking to conform to group norms.
I reside in the Peoples Republic of Yorkshire ;D
Ian
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hah great post Peter i too lost that manual when i was around 5 never to be found again. ;D ;D ;D
i've never done a night audax ride must be fantastic as i love night cycling, but yeah sitting behind someone whoe's light is blindind must be terrible. i think i would have to kill that person ::)
the toplight recommended by hobbes (Andre n Dan ) is fantastic no glare whatsoever more like a motorbike or car light.
still haven't upgraded my headlight as yet happy enough with my set up but yeah i know the ore expensive BnM headlights are the way to go. ;)
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The Toplight Line Plus is definitely the best rear bicycle lamp now available. I parked the bike and wandered off to sketch something, forgetting to switch off the lamps (which run off the same battery as my Bafang motor), and by the time I finished the sketch it was dark. As I walked towards the bike it came to me that a flashing light must be brighter than a steady lamp next to it to be seen at all. My flashing rear lamp, a Cateye TL LT-1100, made no impression until I was fewer than 20 paces from the bike. That's an impressive testimonial for the Toplight, because until it arrived I always said that the Cateye 1100 was the best rear lamp on general distribution, a pretty commonly held opinion.
But I'm not so sure of the BUMM front lamps any more. I'm fed up with BUMM taking extraordinary amounts of my money for lamps that they and their fellow-travellers declare the best, only to have them admit two or three years later that the lamp they sold as the answer to every cyclist's prayer is now inadequate and they want half the price of a perfectly adequate Trek mountain bike for the new lamp that's supposedly the answer to all cyclists' prayers. I'm just not an impressionable trendy. (In fact, I resent crudely visible persuaders trying to do to me what as a hidden persuader I did much more subtly to millions when I worked in advertising...)
The current Luxos, for instance, is not quite as good as a dipped (dimmed for the Americans) car headlamp. That's at full strength, the bike rolling at least 15kph. In effect, for the lamp to work, you must keep up 15kph under all condition, clearly impossible in traffic, the most dangerous condition. I run my lamps off a humongous 8.8Ah 42V battery, so I know precisely how strong a bike lamp can run. Previously, I ran my lamps off Shimano and SON hub dynamos (and found the Shimano superior in coming up to strength) so I have a good comparison of what most cyclists can expect from dynamo setups. A car headlight on low is not good enough for the open road or the lanes on a car. What isn't good enough for a car isn't good enough for a bike either. Yet BUMM, and their pet dynamo maker, Schmidt (makers of the SON), are wedded to this low beam philosophy. Their oft-repeated excuse is that German legislators have forced them into this stance. So we are expected to be hit in the face by low-flying branches, and not to see road signs higher than three feet off the ground on the sayso of a bunch of German legislators who have never been on a bike in their lives, and certainly not after dark, if the BUMM lights, which adhere faithfully to their laws, are anything to judge by.
No, I think not. The Toplight Line Plus is a fine rear lamp, credit where it is due, but I have a box full of unused, and mostly unusable, BUMM electronics and electrics to the extent of more than the price of a new Rohloff gearbox.
Time to draw a line in the sand. Before I splash out a quite extraordinary amount of money for a bicycle lamp (with an expected life of two to three years before its maker declares it inadequate!) on the Luxos, I want to see independent beamshots without a hotspot, and with enough light overhead to see low-flying branches in the lanes and road signs at normal height, and enough sidespill to see the ditch. The latter appears to be the only thing BUMM has fixed, at last. But by itself it's not enough to give BUMM my money, again. It weighs heavily with me that the reliable Dutch commentator at
http://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/verlichting/index_en.html#BM_luxos
says the hotspot is worse than it appears on his photographs, and that the light is so uneven as to make it useless in the wet, a common condition on my night rides.
Everyone knows I'm not cheap. I ride a bike that costs pre-loved BMW money, and spend what is necessary to put the best components on it. But I'm a Calvinist; I want to see the value in what I splash out good money on. The absolute price of a Luxos lamp is worth a pause and some comment. Let's say that, being generous, a Luxos lamp lasts three years before BUMM declares it inadequate by bringing out a new lamp, presumably even more expensive. So now the Luxos has cost 60-70 euro per annum. I go for handful of night rides a year, and get caught out dawdling by the dusk say once or twice a year. That's 10 Euro a ride, a bit pricey when I already have a BUMM IQ lamp on the bike. Nor is the case to buy a Luxos any more pressing for a commuter who already has an IQ lamp: he rides on familiar roads and is used to the lack of lateral vision of the Cyo/Fly generations of BUMM lamps.
On balance, I think I can put up with those who splashed out on the Luxos feeling sorry for poor old Andre. And in a couple of years, when BUMM comes out with a new lamp, I should hope someone will send a poor old pensioner a cast-off Luxos lamp. I can contain my curiosity until then.
There we are. Logic laid out, decision made.
Andre Jute
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Andre i think we are all conditioned to buying the very best there is when really we dont really need it.
when you think about the headlights of 10 years back you have to admit there were pretty useless, where as todays mid priced dynamo lights are excellent even with the hot spot.
i'm not really worried about my (YOUR) light lighting up the entire road ahead of me as long as i can see 50 ft that will do me fine.
as far as cost goes i'm one of these fellas that don't worry about money, mainly because i don't have any ::) but if i see something i want and i have the dosh then cost just doesn't come into it, i'm 60 years young if i won the lottery i can nearly guarantee you in the time i have left on this planet i would spend the lot.
the only thing i'm missing on my sherpa is a charging system something like ewerk or plug 2 imaging haveing a bike like that 20 years ago ,it can't get any better can it.
sorry andre i'm rambling again.oh to have a brain ??? ;D ;D
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A lot of wisdom in your words, jags. A lot.
All the best,
Dan.
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I do tend to agree with jags' philiosophy. I will add:
1. My Cyo headlight becomes bright enough to light the way quite well at walking speed (actually walking) and is at what I'd gauge as full brightness definitely by 10kmh
2. The Cyo (and presumably the Luxos) beam horizon is set in the light's optics. It's easy to raise it a bit by raising the tilt of your lamp.
3. Personally, when riding around on streets I don't have any concerns about overhead branches so the B&M beam shape works very well for me.
Cheers
Pete
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Andre i think we are all conditioned to buying the very best there is when really we dont really need it.
when you think about the headlights of 10 years back you have to admit there were pretty useless, where as todays mid priced dynamo lights are excellent even with the hot spot.
i'm not really worried about my (YOUR) light lighting up the entire road ahead of me as long as i can see 50 ft that will do me fine.
as far as cost goes i'm one of these fellas that don't worry about money, mainly because i don't have any ::) but if i see something i want and i have the dosh then cost just doesn't come into it, i'm 60 years young if i won the lottery i can nearly guarantee you in the time i have left on this planet i would spend the lot.
the only thing i'm missing on my sherpa is a charging system something like ewerk or plug 2 imaging haveing a bike like that 20 years ago ,it can't get any better can it.
sorry andre i'm rambling again.oh to have a brain ??? ;D ;D
If you ride snake and skunk infested roads, you need a WIDE light. NEED.
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i ride quiet a few streets like that but there the too legged type ;)
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If you ride snake and skunk infested roads, you need a WIDE light. NEED.
Check Peter White's excellent photos. The Luxos U certainly fits the bill on this count - so wide he had to change his very strict photo standards for lights and go from a 45mm (51 deg field of view), to a 24mm (84 deg), to a 16mm (108 deg) lens to get it all in.
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Andre i think we are all conditioned to buying the very best there is when really we dont really need it.
Sticking to the Luxos, in addition to the problems with the hotspot I've covered, the light isn't waterproof in common use. What use is a bicycle lamp that you have to keep under covers when two drops of rain fall? The thing is poorly designed.
There are also reports of the electronics that switch the beams going gaga. That's a danger to your life.
On top of all this (enough already to give me a cramp in the cheque-writing finger) there is the apparently non-replaceable battery the life of which, given the likely partial charge/discharge pattern, won't be three years.
So what you have here is a badly designed, disposable lamp -- for a huge price. It simply isn't "the very best there is". Not by many miles.
When I pay for German engineering, I expect to receive German engineering, not a lamp designed and made in Bongo-Bongo.
Opinions may differ, but mine is logical, rational and defensible point by point. What's more, these are disabilities with a history in the BUMM line, of which BUMM has been made aware time and again; at this length of time, we must conclude that BUMM has no interest in fixing these disabling shortcomings on the Luxos, as their cheap makeshift of changing the instruction sheet to tell customers to angle the switch differently indicates. Ugh!
BUMM's hangers-on and fan-boys react savagely to the least criticism. But I'm not impressionable at all, totally immune to the image BUMM wants to project when the reality isn't there. Advice here from Dan and me to Jags to wait until we knew more about the Luxos now seems prescient.
You can buy many better lamps, and they cost less.
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For a headlight with USB charging built-in and at comparably very good price, Rualexander's AXA Nano looks a very good value at ~65 Euro. Full thread with his extended reports here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4121.0
The latest top-of line in the series is the AXA Nano 50Plus with beam-shaping: http://www.axa-nano.com/
If one doesn't need charging, the Philips Saferide 60 does pretty well in providing a nice beam and is reliable now it comes fitted with an uprated mounting bracket.
Best,
Dan. (...who has seen the light and simply loves bright ideas)
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Andre
I'm worried "German engineering" will soon be an anachronistic term. It seems to refer to the old school build to last and be serviceable at any cost mentality of the 1980s and earlier.
God help us when Herr Rohloff retires and the company is run by "managers" seeking to maximise shareholder value via brand leverage and value engineering......
My inner cynic speaks
Ian
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God help us when Herr Rohloff retires and the company is run by "managers" seeking to maximise shareholder value via brand leverage and value engineering......
My inner cynic speaks
Ian
Fortunately Herr Rohloff is a relatively young man and a cyclist who should live to a ripe old age, and his actions bespeak a man proud of what he has achieved, so I doubt he's planning to sell out or retire; we're probably safe from "managers" for a decade or two. Hallelujah!
Andre Jute
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I bought a LUMICYCLE 3 LED light a couple of years ago. It does me fine. Amazing light output on max plus lower settings when required. OK so it's battery operated but as I said it does me fine. Oh yes and it's made in England !
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I bought a LUMICYCLE 3 LED light...
Hi E-man!
Thanks for the recommendation. By any chance, is it this one?: http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/accessories/lights/front/product/review-lumicycle-3-led-xpg-light-39894
That beamshot is impressive for off-road use, and the symmetrical beam surely catches overhanging branches.
Best,
Dan.
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£275 are they having a laugh :o
on a pitch dark road or track a medium priced headlight will show the way no problem.
my BnM plus cateye is a great set up ok i know theres much better but do you realy need that much light, i doubt it very much.
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Get some more Zen here as well Anto.
If you ain't buyin' quit lookin' and be happy :)
It brings to mind the Americans from the boonies who once said "we didn't know we were poor until the government told us".
The whole point of our consumer culture is to make everyone unhappy with themselves and what they have so they stay on the treadmill....simples ::)
Happy days
Ian
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Ah i know Ian just that i'm broke. ;D
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Hi E-man!
Thanks for the recommendation. By any chance, is it this one?: http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/accessories/lights/front/product/review-lumicycle-3-led-xpg-light-39894
That beamshot is impressive for off-road use, and the symmetrical beam surely catches overhanging branches.
Best,
Dan.
I have the previous model and it really is amazing the amount of light it gives out. You have to be careful where you point it when using it on the road as you get flashed if set too high. Also, as it turns out, it is also good for watching night time pond life in the garden !
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Sticking to the Luxos, in addition to the problems with the hotspot I've covered, the light isn't waterproof in common use. What use is a bicycle lamp that you have to keep under covers when two drops of rain fall? The thing is poorly designed.
There are also reports of the electronics that switch the beams going gaga. That's a danger to your life.
On top of all this (enough already to give me a cramp in the cheque-writing finger) there is the apparently non-replaceable battery the life of which, given the likely partial charge/discharge pattern, won't be three years.
So what you have here is a badly designed, disposable lamp -- for a huge price. It simply isn't "the very best there is". Not by many miles.
When I pay for German engineering, I expect to receive German engineering, not a lamp designed and made in Bongo-Bongo.
Opinions may differ, but mine is logical, rational and defensible point by point. What's more, these are disabilities with a history in the BUMM line, of which BUMM has been made aware time and again; at this length of time, we must conclude that BUMM has no interest in fixing these disabling shortcomings on the Luxos, as their cheap makeshift of changing the instruction sheet to tell customers to angle the switch differently indicates. Ugh!
BUMM's hangers-on and fan-boys react savagely to the least criticism. But I'm not impressionable at all, totally immune to the image BUMM wants to project when the reality isn't there. Advice here from Dan and me to Jags to wait until we knew more about the Luxos now seems prescient.
You can buy many better lamps, and they cost less.
If B&M make unsuitable [language edit by Dan] lights, and the Edelux is made out of a B&M light, then what options are there for dyno hubs? I was so excited about a dyno hub as I hate batteries so this is a fair disappointment to me.
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No,
I have a Supernova E3 Pro front light with the glare free beam - recommended.
German engineering as it should be.
Julian.
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No, perhaps you should take a philosophical approach:
Any product made will have it's detractors.
You are wealthy enough to have a lawn tractor.
Find something you like that seems to be rated by people whose outlook you respect and take a punt. :)
Not much to lose and lots of fun. And hub generators are great.
Happy days
Ian
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If B&M make unsuitable [language edit by Dan] lights, and the Edelux is made out of a B&M light, then what options are there for dyno hubs? I was so excited about a dyno hub as I hate batteries so this is a fair disappointment to me.
Some people are waiting to see if BUMM puts the Luxos straight and delivers on its promise. Some people are writing to me to make offers for my currently spare first series Cyo, the last really good lamp BUMM made (my Cyo is not for sale, as I may need it yet to replacy my pedelec-specific Fly which has a wretchedly distracting hotspot). Some people are moving on to Philips Saferide and Axa Nano lamps (the Axa have fans right here). Some people are capable of rolling their own; until about ten years ago, I made my own lamps on MR11 or MR16 decorator track light shells, well made and light, with excellent optics. Some people are buying off-road lamps and aiming them a bit down. Basically you have so much choice about so much actual light on the road, that even ten years ago we couldn't dream of, that there is something for everyone. BUMM is just overrated, and the Luxos light was overhyped, so there was a huge expectation that it failed to meet; unfortunately that has now become a pattern with BUMM, and people with short fuses, like me, and those for whom the price is anyway a stretch (the thing is outrageously expensive!) are jumping ship and wondering where to go, in the same boat as you, except that we have more experience to fall back on, and well stocked junk boxes to keep us going until the way to go becomes clearer, or someone else takes the plunge and discovers the next great lamp; could be you, as Ian says. Dynamo lamps are the right choice for a tourer, but which one to choose isn't so easy right now.
If you're in a hurry, get an Edelux. It's basically a desirable first series Cyo's optics in a stainless shell with a waterproof switch. I have a Dutch chum who takes my attitude -- the best is always the right price -- who has one and swears by it for fast night rides. The particular Cyo in the Edelux is the sports version without the reflector, which isn't the optimum choice for a tourer. But either of the first series Cyo were considered the best bicycle lamps in available only a few years ago, and with general agreement, which the Luxos, a development of the Cyo, clearly doesn't enjoy. The Edelux is also a bit pricey for what it is is, but nowhere near as expensive as a Luxos. The Edelux in essence is a racer's training lamp, and it matches the SON hub dynamo perfectly; it's made by the same people. It works and you'll be able to sell it on when you're ready to upgrade. (Note that even Schmidt, the makers of the SON and Edelux, cheerleaders on the BUMM bandwagon because they depend on BUMM for much of their living, still stick to the optics of the first series Cyo. You might ask why that is...)
Andre Jute
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1) I have an Edelux mounted on the fork-crown of my RST. It is powered by the SONdelux hub dynamo and I can highly recommend this combination which I leave on "light-sensor" mode at all times.
2) I have the 60-lux Cyo RT on my recumbent trike. I was aware of its various issues, but because it is mounted on the recumbent seat and is thus above and behind my head, I did not want any near-field lighting (because it would light my own feet).
I leave this light on at all times but I have not (yet) tested it out in complete darkness, but with other lighting the hot-spot does not seem to bother me.
As another side-benefit I can "flash" other drivers by simply pushing back on the head-rest thus tilting the light upwards, I think the hot-spot is spot-on ;)
3) I have just ordered the 60-lux Philips Saferide dynamo-powered light for my wife's RST (along with a SON 26 (new) hub wheel, so I will be able to offer a review / comparison once it has arrived and been installed.
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Ian
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As another side-benefit I can "flash" other drivers by simply pushing back on the head-rest thus tilting the light upwards, I think the hot-spot is spot-on ;)
Laughing out loud. The humble hotspot too has its uses!
Not to mention ultralight flex-construction for recumbent seats...
Looking forward to your report on the Saferide.
Andre Jute
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I think a hub dynamo a light system will be the next thing in saving for. Any views on the Supernova E3 pro 2 or E3 triple? The triple looks fantastically bright but seems like it could dazzle oncoming drivers. At the moment to Luxos U is top of my list because of the integrated USB port...
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honesty,
The E3 Triple is really only for off-road use. It would definitely dazzle anyone coming towards you on the road.
I use the E3 Pro with the traffic friendly beam and like it a lot.
It is driven by a SON dynohub and is on all the time.
I have it handlebar mounted and remove it when stopped for shopping etc.
The gold plated connectors for the wiring work well allowing rapid removal and refitting as necessary.
I also have the Supernova rack mounted rear light which is driven by DC from the front light.
Supernova is expensive stuff, I have been using it about 5 years and it looks like it is going to last a long time.
Julian.
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Supernova is expensive stuff, I have been using it about 5 years and it looks like it is going to last a long time.
Worth remembering that expensive stuff is sometimes the least expensive if it lasts. A good investment in long-lived equipment can be money saved in the long run. I've heard only good wrt Supernova's build quality.
Best,
Dan.
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I took delivery of an Edelux about 3 weeks ago and I am running it on my Moulton TSR30 with a Shutter Precision hub dynamo.
It is at least as good, probably slightly better than, the IQ Fly/SON hub combination on my Club Tour.
It's as much light as I need for commuting in the dark or for the occasional after dark Audax.
But... my needs are restricted to light. I'm not running a charger/Garmin/mobile phone/washing machine from it.
I would happily recommend the Edelux to anyone whose needs are similar to mine.
Cheers,
pj
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Having a bet each way. Just recieved a package from Bike24 - one B&M Luxos U for the Thorn, and one Edelux to go on our Trek tandem. I have already got two Toplight Flat S plus tail-lights (nearly as good as the Toplight Line Plus) to fit on each of these. The Supernova S3 front and rear set will get swapped over to my Shogun Metro roadster.
Big revision and rationalisation of the bikes' lighting to have top quality headlights and complete tail-light sets on each. The result may leave a d'Lumotec and an iq Cyo as surplus to my requirements.
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Is the Toplight Line Plus the latest incarnation. Reading recently that they were having trouble with it?
Want to hold on till I'm sure about it. To go with my Luxos U. Apparently not all tail lights are compatible but the Toplight seems to be.
So..........Toplight Line Plus is the one to go for???
Cheers.
....or Line Tec?
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Is the Toplight Line Plus the latest incarnation. Reading recently that they were having trouble with it?
Want to hold on till I'm sure about it. To go with my Luxos U. Apparently not all tail lights are compatible but the Toplight seems to be.
So..........Toplight Line Plus is the one to go for???
Cheers.
....or Line Tec?
Line Tec is the fresnel technology in the Toplight Line Plus. The Line Plus is probably the best tail lamp you can buy today. I haven't heard anything about problems with the Line Plus. Mine gives excellent service. I like it very much.
Andre Jute.
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AFAIK the only light that has had problems is the Toplight Braketec Line Plus, which has a light that flashes when it detects you are slowing down. And it is only the flashing version; there is a version that pulses the tail-light which is quite OK.
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B&M are introducing new versions of their Cyo series with higher output and different beam pattern. Schmidt are following suit with the Edelux II. Only found information in German:
http://fahrradbeleuchtung-info.de/iq-tec-premium-busch-mueller-verbessert-cyo-fly-und-ixon
http://www.bumm.de/news/detail/article/iq-tec-premium-mit-grossflaechen-lichtfeld.html
http://www.nabendynamo.de/news/news.html
Don't know if these new lamps will eliminate the "hotspot" that annoys some users. I won't be rushing out to buy one, as I already have old series Cyo or Edelux on my bikes.
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B&M are introducing new versions of their Cyo series with higher output and different beam pattern. Schmidt are following suit with the Edelux II. Only found information in German:
http://fahrradbeleuchtung-info.de/iq-tec-premium-busch-mueller-verbessert-cyo-fly-und-ixon
http://www.bumm.de/news/detail/article/iq-tec-premium-mit-grossflaechen-lichtfeld.html
http://www.nabendynamo.de/news/news.html
Don't know if these new lamps will eliminate the "hotspot" that annoys some users. I won't be rushing out to buy one, as I already have old series Cyo or Edelux on my bikes.
Thanks for the links, Martin. I've made a thread for these new lamps all to themselves at http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=7409.msg47689#msg47689