Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Cycle Tours => Topic started by: flocsy on July 11, 2023, 11:10:53 pm
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I am planning my 1st proper tour. It would be a "delivery" meaning I'd fly to the UK, then using public transportation get to somewhere where ebay/gumtree/facebook.this forum takes me (wherever I'll find a bike that I'll finally buy) and then cycle "back" towards the airport. For some reason most of the Thorn bikes I see are either from Scotland/north England or somewhere between Land's end and Bridgwater (maybe people buy more Thorns because it's close) but if the 7-10 days won't be enough then probably I'd hop on a train to skip the last part (assuming the closer I get to any airport => big city => more traffic and probably less scenic views)
My 1st big concern is the weather. The last time I've been to England was 30 years ago, in the summer vacation. I don't really remember the weather. From what I read in September I can expect at least half of the days being rainy, and especially in the north pretty cold (at least to my standards - in the last 15 years I live in Israel's coast, so the coldest winter is around 10 degrees C, and we have like... I don't know maybe 10 days of rain a year, and we we don't really go out on those days, 'cause you'll have "better" days soon enough. So I am not much accustomed to cold and wet. What kind of clothes and gear would I need to carry with me? How do you deal with the rain, when it's raining every day for a week and everything (clothes, tent, maybe even the sleeping bag) is already wet?
Also: currently I am thinking about bringing my decathlon tent with me and try to use it for camping (maybe use some hostels if the weather is unbearable, hoping that September is after the season, so I'll be able to find something in the morning for the evening) What are the rules for camping? Is there something I need to be aware of? I'm not used to the wild life there. Is it like in north America, that I need to be aware of bears and other wild animals? Though I would feel more comfortable to go to campings. What are those huge national parks north of Manchester? Is it allowed to camp there?
How much of an issue is to find food (a supermarket will do it) and refill water? In the Netherlands I had no problem at all, but how is it in the more remote northern areas?
Since this will be my 1st solo trip I'll also be happy for some tips regarding security. How much insane should I be with locks and locking the saddle, the panniers as well when I stop in a supermarket or during the night when I camp? (My uncle just updated me on his tour last summer from the Black see to the Black forest, and most of his gear (bike + everything that wasn't inside the tent) was stolen in Bulgaria during the night)
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I have never been to the UK. I am quite clueless.
Late September, day light should last about 12 hours. If camping, bring a good headlamp for your head.
Weatherspark is my go-to website for finding about weather anywhere I go. Lots of great info there. Put in a city, preferably where there is an airport for data. Note that on the probability of precip, they consider less than 1mm of precip during the day to be zero.
https://weatherspark.com/
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I'm English and have lived in Scotland for a few years.
To answer some of your questions;
Food, no problems.
Weather, we frequently have the four seasons in one day.
Security, generally good away from towns but if course it only takes one tealeaf....
Can you clarify your bike plans? You'll be buying one here?
Interesting plan.
Fwiw: scenery, stunning. West coast wetter than the East coast. Northern islands stunning. Hebrides, extra stunning but super busy in summer.
Best
Matt
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Can you clarify your bike plans? You'll be buying one here?
Yes, the plan is to find a second hand Thorn somewhere in the UK, and do a 7-10 days tour on it "on the way home (to the airport)", then take the bike home with me (flight).
I am originally from Hungary but live in Israel and I really miss green landscapes. I know I'll have beautiful views in the UK, and I guess (because I've never been up north) that even more so in Scotland.
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I live in Scotland and have lived all over - Central belt (Edinburgh/Glasgow), Dundee, Aberdeen, Inverness.
Food & water - no major issues. Unless you go VERY remote the furthest you will be from a grocery shop of some sort is about 20 miles.
I would guess 95% of tap water is guaranteed safe. The other 5% will be where the water is stored locally in a small water tank and may not be fresh due to lack of use. I am thinking rural toilet blocks sort of place. The only tap water not drinkable is on trains.
Wildlife - it isn't wild so no issues.
Wild camping in Scotland is generally accepted as long as you leave no trace. Best done in the countryside rather than the local children's play park.
National Parks across the UK tend to be in hilly or mountainous areas.
There is a national network of cycle paths
https://www.sustrans.org.uk/national-cycle-network
I suspect you wont get direct flights to anywhere in Scotland from Israel so that may be a limiting factor. The main airports at Edinburgh and Glasgow are accessible by bike so you may not need to jump on a train - neither are served directly by train anyway.
You could easily create a 10 day tour from Glasgow to Glasgow and see some wonderful parts of Scotland.
Here is something I put together for a guy in South Africa. This is Glasgow to Edinburgh.
https://www.komoot.com/tour/1049091497?ref=wtd&share_token=a4CnZbKuG1zBfbi8GaWU0gfMWsbSrlfqJ9OY9flQLhCTCD7pWA
Weather - September is as late as I would tour in Scotland. You could be lucky and be in shorts/t-shirt or you could be chilly/old and wet.
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Weather, we frequently have the four seasons in one day.
A good summary. :) There's not much difference in temperature between a cold summer day and a warm winter day. It all depends on where the wind it coming from.
One advantage of Scotland (outside of the central belt) is that the roads are relatively quiet compared with England. Also, Scottish hills may be fairly long but are rarely steep and the climb is rewarded by a pleasant descent.
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I suspect you wont get direct flights to anywhere in Scotland from Israel so that may be a limiting factor.
No direct flights. This is also tricky, because it's not easy to know in advance whether I can send the bike in Edinburgh and get it in Tel Aviv or do I need to recheck it for the connection (sometimes it's explicitly written, but I'm not sure if not being written guarantees otherwise) and it's also not clear whether I need to calculate the budget including 1 or 2 times the bike fee.
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I suspect you wont get direct flights to anywhere in Scotland from Israel so that may be a limiting factor.
No direct flights. This is also tricky, because it's not easy to know in advance whether I can send the bike in Edinburgh and get it in Tel Aviv or do I need to recheck it for the connection (sometimes it's explicitly written, but I'm not sure if not being written guarantees otherwise) and it's also not clear whether I need to calculate the budget including 1 or 2 times the bike fee.
Aberdeen and other Scottish airports have good flight connections to Amsterdam. From there you can reach Tel Aviv.
My flight from Bangkok to Aberdeen came through Amsterdam and the bike and baggage went through without me having to check it.
Re reading your plans, I'm slightly concerned that you hope to buy a bike here and then cycle on a tour. Co-ordinating the purchase with flights could be tricky. And do you require a visa for UK?
Matt
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With regard to buying a bike on arrival, the best/quickest option for acquisition may be the nearest Decathlon store. They often run specials and offer a wide variety of bikes starting at an effectively low price point.
However, you get what you pay for and the bike might be considered largely disposable by the time your tour ended if not along the way. I have doubts they are serviced beyond mere initial assembly, so hubs may not be fully packed or adjusted, etc. While any ride can be accomplished on any bike, having something specific to the task makes for much more fun (and likely far less pushing up hills).
One of the biggest drawbacks to buying a bike on arrival is fitness for purpose. If you arrive with panniers and such, then you'll need racks to hang them on and not all bikes have fittings to readily accept touring gear...and the extra weight may quickly point up shortcomings in handling and weight-carrying capability. For a "credit card" tour involving Air B&Bs, gites and gasthofs, you could get by carrying considerably less.
If I were to go this route, I'd arrive with my preferred saddle and pedals and packed bags I could readily hang on the bike with a minimum of fuss or required support accessories. I'd probably take my large Ortlieb handlebar bag and mounting bracket along with my packed Carradice Camper Longflap...
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=11787.msg85858#msg85858
...Either would fit almost any bicycle and in my experience, would be suitable for use along Europe's Eurovelo routes where food and water are easily replenished from stores along the way. By carrying a tent and sleep system as well as a stove and cook kit, there is always the possibility to be independent of lodging and restaurants and the overall weight is low. I would need to check but I believe size and weight would allow both bags to be carried with me inside the aircraft, avoiding the need to check baggage carried in the cargo hold. Certainly, on my last European tour, I carried my handlebar bag with me and placed it under my seat; the check-in desk classified it as an "allowable purse". I placed my two Ortlieb SportPacker front panniers in the overhead bin without incident; the rest of my bags rode in the hold.
Best, Dan.
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Fortunately I don't need visa. But you're right that it's a nightmare how to organize this remote purchase + flight.
Regarding Decathlon: while that is something I did consider, but... Currently I am only going for 10 days or less, so I would end up with a bike that is impossible to sell there (especially considering that I'll fly back so I will need to sell it on the spot, so it's only possible in some bike shop. but then I would get maybe half price after 10 days of use). If I don't sell then I'll need to fly it home, but then I'll end up with a bike I could also buy here in the local Decathlon, and I don't really need/want it on the long term.
Another option I considered is to but a second hand city bike (price < GBP300). It's not a bike that I would use for a 2 months tour but for 10 days it's probably OK. And it would be possible to re-sell it in a bike shop (maybe even in the same one I purchased it) with a loss that would be comparable to renting a bike for 10 days.
And I could maybe just rent a bike for 10 days, but then I might end up anywhere in Europe (and maybe in September I would then look further south)
Another option is: to buy a real touring bike (used) that seems to fit my plans for the next few years, and keep it after the trip, then upgrade it if needed before the next year's bigger trip.
Of course the charm of the last option is that I end up with a nice souvenir :) but it's also the hardest to plan and execute, and probably also the most expensive, but it's a good investment for the next few years.
Below this is a bit off topic, but I hope the OP doesn't mind ;)
What doesn't help my decision (which touring bike to buy) is there are at least 2 price ranges (based on resent sales in ebay, gumtree, facebook) I might consider:
GBP 350-650 - I saw some Sherpas, Nomads (both mk1) or Club Tours
GBP 700-900 - Ravens
GBP 1000+ newer Nomads, Ravens,...
Given that Thorn bikes are almost always custom built it's also very hard (at least for me) to compare them. I started a Google Docs where I list all the features from the ad + what I can see in the pictures, but it's very hard. What is more important? Dynamo hub + lights or Rohloff gears? Or is Alfine fine?... And then there's also the sizing...
There are some bikes currently being advertised in this forum that look decent, but similar (at least to my eyes) bikes were sold 30% cheaper in the past month on ebay. I don't really know if the bikes in ebay had some drawback that I don't see, or the winners were really lucky or the bikes here are too expensive compared to the market.
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There is also the aspect of how you make the purchase. Do you pay in advance of collection hoping that the bike is properly described both in specification and condition or do you commit to pay on arrival.
If I was a seller I would be nervous or maybe even suspicious of someone travelling from overseas to buy my bike. I'd want the deal properly sealed.
If the bike is not fit for a 10 day tour you then have the issue of losing tour time whilst you try to find another bike locally.
I suggest you rethink your strategy for getting a bike.
Make your decision on where you want to pick up the bike and look for someone trustworthy to inspect any potential purchase before you fly or commit money.
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Dyno powered lights are not important at all. Since 2014, I have always toured with a dynohub, but I use it to charge up my batteries. On a tour it is not used for lighting. I have used a Sinewave Revolution and a Cycle2Charge V3 to convert dynohub output to USB power.
I sometimes tour on derailleur bike, sometimes on a Rohloff, each has advantages.
If buying a used bike, in my community if you buy something used from someone, you need to be ready to pay in cash.
I think it is not a great idea to plan to find the right bike, in the size you need, with the right equipment on it (racks, etc.) for touring that fast.
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I don't wish to be negative, but I find the idea of flying into the UK and finding a specialised bike in a matter of days hugely optimistic. That could work out of course, I just don't think the odds are very good. Plus as discussed elsewhere, you still don't seem to have narrowed down what bike your're looking for, you've put brand above purpose, which IMO is a mistake. The more critical it is to get a bike, the harder it'll be to reject one that isn't right.
I think you should do one of either :
a) Come looking for a bike, have as many test rides and see as many as you can, accept that you might go away empty handed, but be better informed from the experience.
b) Come for a tour, hire everything you can't bring with you. Plenty of choice for hire, there's at least one company with Thorn bikes.
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I don't wish to be negative, but I find the idea of flying into the UK and finding a specialised bike in a matter of days hugely optimistic. That could work out of course, I just don't think the odds are very good. Plus as discussed elsewhere, you still don't seem to have narrowed down what bike your're looking for, you've put brand above purpose, which IMO is a mistake. The more critical it is to get a bike, the harder it'll be to reject one that isn't right.
I think you should do one of either :
a) Come looking for a bike, have as many test rides and see as many as you can, accept that you might go away empty handed, but be better informed from the experience.
b) Come for a tour, hire everything you can't bring with you. Plenty of choice for hire, there's at least one company with Thorn bikes.
I'll second that idea. Given what you've described option wise. I'd go for hirer a bike.
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I don't wish to be negative, but I find the idea of flying into the UK and finding a specialised bike in a matter of days hugely optimistic. That could work out of course, I just don't think the odds are very good. Plus as discussed elsewhere, you still don't seem to have narrowed down what bike your're looking for, you've put brand above purpose, which IMO is a mistake. The more critical it is to get a bike, the harder it'll be to reject one that isn't right.
I believe Paul's advice is really valuable here and would only add this:
If a bike does not fit or cannot be made to, you'll have a miserable time, might not complete the tour, and could incur some injuries.
Fit, fit, fit first, then look for other things. :)
Best wishes and bon chance, Dan.
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Hi flocsy,
Brace yourself...I'm about to make you an offer that you can't refuse. Don't worry, your brains wont be spilled out out at the bottom of this reply. :)
Take Matts advice and fly into Amsterdam, get the connecting flight to Humberside airport where I will collect you.
Stay at my house for the night. Buy my superbly equipped Raven Tour by bank transfer or cash and take it away to do your touring.
You can even use my panniers and camping & cooking equipment if you wish.
Return to my house after your touring and if you are not 100% happy with the bike, I will give you all your money back. It will not have cost you a penny, a cent or a shekel.
I will then take you to the airport - free of charge.
My advice?...Book the bike in the hold for the return journey because you are surely going to want it - assured. You know that you want it.
Now find a better offer than that. I have thrown down the gauntlet.
L'chaim.
Hoot
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Since I appear to be mentioned in the above post, I'll comment.
Looks like an offer than shouldn't be refused.
Heck, if I didn't already own one of these beautiful bikes, I'd be flying over myself asap.
Best
Matt
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Brace yourself...I'm about to make you an offer that you can't refuse.
What a great offer!
It's better than the offer Thorn make on a brand new bike, I always thought that extremely generous, but they don't invite you to stay the night!
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Hi flocsy,
You could tour the border lines of Yorkshire from where I live.
You will see some stunning scenery and enjoy all the greenery you want.
Hope this helps.
Hoot
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Wow! (said the spectator.) Let me coin a phrase: "It ain't what you know, it's who you know." Ace bike and gear if needed. Well done, guys.
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I don't wish to be negative, but I find the idea of flying into the UK and finding a specialised bike in a matter of days hugely optimistic.
I was about to say something in almost those words. I think that is the major negative of Flocsy's tour plan, too likely for my taste to lead to unforeseen delay and expense which could very easily consume the whole of a week's holiday.
I'm coming late to this thread so I haven't read the whole of it, but has anyone suggested yet that Flocsy, if for some reason he doesn't take up Hoot's generous offer, had better plan his tour from Bridgwater, and buy his bike from SJS, who may be a little more expensive but at a minimum will sell him a bike guaranteed fit for purpose, because that is their business and they are long proven masters at it, and in a sense Flocsy already knows them because he wants a Thorn for good reasons. It's what I would do, absent Hoot's amazing offer*.
If the bike isn't fully specified as required for the tour, SJS can also be counted on to supply and properly install whatever is required in line of a racks, mudguards, or whatever, and supply a package of touring spares (spare spokes, correct quick link for chain) and as cyclists themselves make an informed decision on which part-worn components like brake blocks or the chain require early retirement to assure a hassle-free tour.
Are you bringing tools with you, Flocsy, for the disassembly required before you can ship the bike by plane?
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I should think a Rolloff-equipped bike is very desirable unless you have good experience of riding in derailleurs. A Rohloff is also desirable for many, many other immediate and longterm reasons, and is difficult to impossible for even a leadfoot like me to break. The chances of even a neglected second-hand Rohloff letting you down on a relatively easy tour in civilizatation are small.
A hub generator is also desirable unless you want to be bothered by charging batteries. It doesn't have to be the SON; the Shimanos and other well-reputed brands are perfectly good and in some ways (coming up to max output faster when you're riding in traffic) superior to the SON; I don't see that back home in Israel a SON will be a justifiable expense though it carries considerable bragging rights with cafe cyclists. The first proper car quality bicycle lamps were B&M's Cyo lamps, now in several series, about the strength of an old 6V VW Beetle, so don't reject them if they are already on the bike. An Edelux, a common upmarket lamp on Thorn bikes, is just a fancy Cyo dollied up with a bit of stainless steel by the Schmidt Machinenenbau, makers of the SON HGB; don't pay extra for it on a secondhand bike. I use my Cyo permanently switched on as daylight warning lamps, and their accompanying Linetech rear lamps (ugly and cheap-looking but exceedingly effective), also made by B&M, ditto.
*Re Hoot's offer, in the words of the Sage of Canadian Cyclists, "Wow! (said the spectator.)" Who you know, indeed! Bunch of righteous fellows on the Thorn Forum, for sure.
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Andre, most of the topics you mentioned went through my mind in the past month. And one of the decisions I still have to make is how much the Son28 + dynamo lights + Plug + Cinq5 are important to me, how much is it worth to me second hand. I could probably do without them this year and maybe upgrade some time in the future, on the other hand I can't do without panniers and handlebar bag. But upgrading to dynamo hub means to buy a new wheel, etc, lots of things "wasted", so maybe it's worth to invest to it now, and I can search for some second hand panniers or buy a new, cheap one, or only buy rear + handlebar and add the front panniers when I'll really need them (most probably not for this year's 10 days tour in England) Any additional thought are welcome in this topic (not only from Andre :)
Tools: yes, that is a question I would've asked probably soon: what tools do I need:
a) for a 10 days tour (I have some cheap multitool, that has most* Allen keys, Philips, slot screw "driver", and even a chain tool *) It turned out that it's missing a 2mm Allen key, so I wasn't able to use it to adjust a new derailleur's limit screws) + pump + flat repair kit. I have a feeling that the chain tool is less helpful with Rohloff, and I guess I'll need to have a quick link + tool, am I right? I'm pretty sure I couldn't just remove a link.
b) for disassembling before flight (I've never did this with any bike, based on youtube I would think I'll have to have a pedal spanner, remove the front wheel (I think it's QR on most Thorns I've seen being sold) and regular Allen key to remove the stem. Is there anything I forgot?)
c) at home for long term servicing (especially that don't think I'll find anyone who knows Rohloff in Israel, so I'll need to do everything myself - I hope it'll be only changing oil yearly, and maybe changing the rear sprocket if I'll want to change gear ratios)
d) what else would be useful for a longer tour (next year)?
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Andre, most of the topics you mentioned went through my mind in the past month. And one of the decisions I still have to make is how much the Son28 + dynamo lights + Plug + Cinq5 are important to me, how much is it worth to me second hand.
You're overthinking this business. The key thing is that you want a sound frame and wheels and transmission. The rest are trimmings. You have to take the no lamps/battery lamps/gennie and lamps already fitted if you're lucky, on the best frame you find -- very probably on the first bike you visit -- because you don't have time to mess around travelling huge distances by train, and the expense of travel by public transport in the UK will soon make a big dent in your budget. Believe me, I know all about this because I had a friend who would come from overseas to stay with us in Cambridge for a week and hunt classic cars -- most days he would see one car (with me driving him, and I don't tarry on the roads), and it would be utterly unsuitable and the price intergalactic wishful thinking, and some years he bought nothing in six or seven days of looking.
The key words are "a specialist bike", as someone said above. That's why Hoot's offer is such a stunningly right fit for you if you can afford it: a bike used and fettled by a cyclist with experience of the brand and activity. It's a sort of guarantee that you can't get any other place except in Bridgwater from SJS themselves, which is why I suggested them to you.
The reason that I'm so keen to convey these realities to you is that three times in the last thirty years I've carefully investigated travelling to a foreign country to buy a rare bike or just a bike without any distribution where I live, which is in Ireland, and each time I've instead delayed making a decision until I found some reputable helpful party (it helps that I used to be a handy linguist who still remembers enough of most foreign languages to make a little polite smalltalk before switching to English) to ship a new bike to me instead, which in every case worked out much dcheaper and less hassle, even if the delays took considerable patience.
I don't see that you need a huge toolkit. A pump and a patch kit and a multitool will probably be enough. It's not like you're travelling to some Barbaricstan on the edge of the known world. The 2mm Allen and T20 torque bits missing from most multitools (but not the one SJS once sold and may still sell for its Thorn owners) useful on Rohloff bikes will probably not be required on a short tour; I can't remember when I last used mine. A pedal wrench and the multitool's standard Allen bits will again be useful to disassemble the bike for the plane. If it wasn't to you he said it, get George to tell you again how long before he has to check in at the airport he arrives in order to disassemble his bike and pack it away.
How are you going to get the box for the bike to the airport? In fact, where are you going to get the box? I imagine an LBS will give or sell you a box, but they might not have a box handy because they trash them as the bikes are put on the floor or sold to be ridden away. As soon as you know at which airport you will leave from, find a nearby LBS and arrange by email for him to hold a suitable box for you.
Forget worrying about a Rohloff in Israel. In the ten years plus that I was the only Rohloff owner in Ireland (there might be two now), the only service my Rohloff required was an oil change, and if you've read this forum for a few years you'll discover that the few problems we hear about a) happened to known very high-milers, and b) have been designed out. The rest of what sounds like problems are usually just nervous newbies, or stubborn old guys who don't listen, having a panic fit because they heard metal graunching. It's one tough gearbox; by the standards of the mud racers for whom it was designed, touring is kindgarten use. Service it only with Rolloff-branded oils once a year or every 3000m/5000km, use it regularly, and forget about the gearbox; the rest of us already have.
In theory you identify the quick change link in the chain, squeeze in the middle of the side plates, and slide the plates off the pins. Still in theory, fixing the link in the chain requires you to position the side plates, squeeze in the middle again, and slide the keyhole slots over the heads of the pins, and bingo, you're riding again. I have particularly strong hands and fingers (a writer is a manual labourer -- he operates a keyboard all day long) and have never managed to do it without a specialised tool, of course sold by the same people who oversold the quick change chain links. The latest wheeze is that you need one tool to take it off, and another to put it on. In your camping kit you probably have another multitool with a small pair of pliers as one of the tools -- that will save you carrying two hefty dedicated tools. Or the chain tool on a multitool can be used in the middle of the link's side plates rather than directly on the pins.
By the way, if your camping multitool has a blade over three inches on it, leave it at home, get another, because in the UK you can be jailed, and you will certainly spend at least a night locked up until you can explain yourself to the magistrate in the morning, if the police catch you with a blade over three inches long. I'm not kidding you. Another painter was locked up in England for the knife he used to sharpen his pencil, and told me he was expected to wash and brush his teeth in the toilet in the police cell for three days until the magistrate held court on Monday and apologised to him "for the inconvenience" after he gave a demonstration of how to sharpen a pencil... Bizarro! For that much unhygienic "inconvenience" I could turn into a revolutionary again.
For the oil service, buy two of the small kits that give you one service, to get two syringes and tubes with threaded ends, one for inserting clean oil, one to extract dirty oil, then buy both the cleaning and the all-seasons oil in bulk; it's much cheaper. But you don't need to worry about that now. Ask the guy whose bike you buy if he'll service the Rohloff for you and watch what he does, instruction for you and a check that he actually does the job. If you ride a Rohloff bike around the block and it makes no complaint, you're good to go for a week or a month's tour.
The airline might ask you to drain the oil before you put the bike on the plane. George (Mickeg on this forum) has described travelling by air with oil in the gearbox and losing some of it. Sounds safe enough to me to leave it in and to tell the airline people if they're bolshie, "Oh, I drained it outside because I didn't know where I could dispose of the oil in here."
For a future long tour, you need to ask the many long tour experts here. I'm anyway a credit card tourer because my painting gear requires all the load capacity of my bike, leaving no capacity for camping and cooking gear.
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Good points by Andre.
My only observation is that having flown with my Raven Tour and Rohloff hub 5 times (10 counting every flight ) with 3 different airlines, I've never been asked about oil in the hub.
And I've never lost any.
I appreciate some folks fly empty and refill on arrival.
Tires should be (!!) deflated but no other questions.
And on less than half the flights my box has never been weighed.
Just observations. For peace of mind I keep within weight limits. Nothing worse than having to repack a bike box at departures.
Re tire pressure; I'm economical with my answer.
Over thinking? A thief of your time.
Best
Matt
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@mickeg I believe you're George, sorry if I am mistaken.
You mentioned in the topic about the dynamo light taking apart the S&S coupled bike. How much time it requires for you (or better: how was the 1st time you did it) to disassembe/assemble? And what tools does one need to carry with him to be able to do this at the beginning/end of the tour?
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Flocsy, A suggestion on tools:
This Prestacycle kit (available from Ground Effect in New Zealand) is an A-grade product:
https://www.groundeffect.co.nz/collections/tools/products/ratchet-set-lightweight-compact-bike-tool-kit (https://www.groundeffect.co.nz/collections/tools/products/ratchet-set-lightweight-compact-bike-tool-kit)
I bought it for touring, and now also use it in my workshop. (I also take it with me on my weekly shift at our local bike-recycling org.)
A couple of notes:
> I took everything out of the zipper case, put all the bits into another bit-holding mini-rack, added a lightweight quality 8 x 10 mm flat open-ended spanner (Filzer, if memory serves), and rolled the lot up into a Ziplog bag with a sturdy rubber band around it. I also included three long hex keys, with a ball end on the long shaft. These are a 3mm (useful for removing the drain plug on the Rohloff), a 4 and a 5 mm. (Removing the padded zipper case was not a matter of weight, but of bulk -- I wanted something small enuf to fit easily into my seatbag.)
> the GE kit lacks pliers. I user a folding mini pair made by Gerber.
Hope that's helpful.
Cheers, John
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By the way, if your camping multitool has a blade over three inches on it, leave it at home, get another, because in the UK you can be jailed, and you will certainly spend at least a night locked up until you can explain yourself to the magistrate in the morning, if the police catch you with a blade over three inches long. I'm not kidding you. Another painter was locked up in England for the knife he used to sharpen his pencil, and told me he was expected to wash and brush his teeth in the toilet in the police cell for three days until the magistrate held court on Monday and apologised to him "for the inconvenience" after he gave a demonstration of how to sharpen a pencil... Bizarro! For that much unhygienic "inconvenience" I could turn into a revolutionary again.
Ok, this is an important piece of information. I guess my standard Victorinox Swiss army knife is too big for that, and it even has a locking blade :(
https://myknifeguide.com/legal-carry-swiss-army/
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By the way, if your camping multitool has a blade over three inches on it, leave it at home, get another, because in the UK you can be jailed, and you will certainly spend at least a night locked up until you can explain yourself to the magistrate in the morning, if the police catch you with a blade over three inches long. I'm not kidding you. Another painter was locked up in England for the knife he used to sharpen his pencil, and told me he was expected to wash and brush his teeth in the toilet in the police cell for three days until the magistrate held court on Monday and apologised to him "for the inconvenience" after he gave a demonstration of how to sharpen a pencil... Bizarro! For that much unhygienic "inconvenience" I could turn into a revolutionary again.
Ok, this is an important piece of information. I guess my standard Victorinox Swiss army knife is too big for that, and it even has a locking blade :(
https://myknifeguide.com/legal-carry-swiss-army/
I wouldn't worry about it, no one in the UK has ever been arrested for carrying a knife in a toolkit on a bike, for a start they'd need good reason to search, which has never happened to me or anyone I know. Andre's story is either a work of fiction or he's omitted some relevant detail.
Still best to have a legal knife, if it gets spotted at customs it'll be confiscated.
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How do british people slice bread at home?
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I wouldn't worry about it, no one in the UK has ever been arrested for carrying a knife in a toolkit on a bike, for a start they'd need good reason to search, which has never happened to me or anyone I know. Andre's story is either a work of fiction or he's omitted some relevant detail.
Still best to have a legal knife, if it gets spotted at customs it'll be confiscated.
I've been searched 3 times at UK customs when entering England.
Once on a bike. This was in the late 1970's. Customs made me open 2 of my 4 bags. The 5 inch fixed blade sheath knife I used for camping up till then was in a bag they didn't search. After that I replaced the sheath knife with a less useful penknife.
Once on foot, in the early 1980's. I had the penknife in my document pouch, so no problem.
In the mid 1980's I replaced the penknife with a French Opinel knife. I chose the model with a blade just under 3 inches long. The Opinel has a ring lock, so is much safer to use than an ordinary penknife as it won't fold up and cut your finger when using it. But it is technically illegal to carry it in public places in the UK.
Once, fairly recently, when taking a car over by ferry, Customs searched the car, but not the document pouch I was wearing. Since that search, when I visit the UK I try and remember to remove the Opinel from my pouch and replace it with a less useful Swiss multiblade knife. I think Customs would probably have confiscated my Opinel if they had found it and knew what it was, but I doubt they would have done anything else.
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Apart from customs, I have been stopped and searched once in the UK when riding a bike. This was late at night in the mid 1970's when I was a teenager, I think the police were probably looking for drugs.
In the 43 years I have been living in France I have only been stopped once on a bike, and it was just a an identity check, no search.
Although I do far more cycling than driving, I have been stopped 3 times in France while driving motor vehicles, once was when the gendarmes systematically stopped a whole group of vehicles to do safety checks (they found a misaligned headlamp on the hire car I was driving), the other times were random breathalyser tests while driving a company vehicle.
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This is the knife I have: https://www.swisstool.co.uk/st/outrider-swiss-army-knife.html It's sold in the UK (even if it's sold out at the moment, here's another one, same size, lockable: https://www.swisstool.co.uk/st/official-swiss-army-soldier-swiss-army-knife.html) So how can it be sold if it's illegal? Or it really depends on the intent? If I have a tent and a can of tuna fish next to it, then will my intent be clear enough? :)
Anyway I found my old one that I bought 35 years ago in East Germany, it's aa bit smaller, fake and non-lockable.
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To continue the knife theme. In April I sailed Plymouth to Santander. At the Plymouth "customs" I was asked if I had a knife with me. I said I had a knife buried in one of the panniers. They took a look and confiscated it. It was an Opinel 4" blade. IT was too long BUT the key thing was the locking mechanism. They would have let me go if it didn't lock.
When I pointed out that the dozens of camper vans waiting to board probably each had a set of longer, non-folding kitchen knives, I was told they were exempt because they had a kitchen facility!! How stupid is that?
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Perhaps a camping stove would count as a kitchen facility?
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By the way, if your camping multitool has a blade over three inches on it, leave it at home, get another, because in the UK you can be jailed, and you will certainly spend at least a night locked up until you can explain yourself to the magistrate in the morning, if the police catch you with a blade over three inches long. I'm not kidding you. Another painter was locked up in England for the knife he used to sharpen his pencil, and told me he was expected to wash and brush his teeth in the toilet in the police cell for three days until the magistrate held court on Monday and apologised to him "for the inconvenience" after he gave a demonstration of how to sharpen a pencil... Bizarro! For that much unhygienic "inconvenience" I could turn into a revolutionary again.
Ok, this is an important piece of information. I guess my standard Victorinox Swiss army knife is too big for that, and it even has a locking blade :(
https://myknifeguide.com/legal-carry-swiss-army/
I wouldn't worry about it, no one in the UK has ever been arrested for carrying a knife in a toolkit on a bike, for a start they'd need good reason to search, which has never happened to me or anyone I know. Andre's story is either a work of fiction or he's omitted some relevant detail.
Still best to have a legal knife, if it gets spotted at customs it'll be confiscated.
Paul: I didn't say this fellow was on a bicycle; he's not a cyclist. He was stopped on the street in a routine police sweep. They stopped teenagers and scruffy-looking adults, presumably on the assumption that they wouldn't be on first-name terms with their MP or a hungry journalist, both in the eyes of policemen troublemakers who shouldn't be permitted. The policeman asked him if he had a knife and naively he said yes: when he cleans up he's a responsible citizen. When he couldn't give a local address, he was detained and charged. Police incompetence, I'd say, thick country coppers not recognising a well-known painter, practising their highly refined developed class-consciousness, wasting the magistrate's time. His lawyer told him it wasn't worth suing; I wouldn't sue either, I'd make laughingstocks of them by name in a newspaper and on television, turn the affair into a tidy bit of income, more than enough to buy a well-specced Thorn.
Flocsy: Obviously I don't know the particulars of your Victorinox but I doubt it has a "locking" blade in the legal sense. The word locking is thrown around in this thread without a full understanding. In practical, legal terms, locking means knives with a positive lock, like a backlock or any kind of a flip lock. It does not mean slip joint detents, which legally are not locks. It is highly likely your Victorinox folding pocket knife has a slip joint on each of its blades; look up the specs by the knife number or name. A slip joint is a construction of a springy back and a separate blade with a circular or squarish with round corners rear end (close the blade and look at the end of the closed knife and you can see what I'm what I'm talking about) which swivels on a pin along the springy back -- you'll see a bit of the back at the forward end rising as you open the blade -- and then braces itself against the blunt forward end of the springback. This is not a lock and in theory it can close on your fingers, but it is a proven mostly-safe design. So, in summary, if your Victorinox has a blade shorter than three inches and is of slipjoint design, you're okay to carry it on your person. (I wouldn't, though.) If the blade is longer, you'd better carry it in your gear, and have your explanation of what it is for ready, and be ready too to give a demonstration of its function; a lot is left up to the individual policeman's discretion, or lack of it. If you buy a new knife, the wording in advertising for under-three inch blade with slipjoint is "EDC" for "EveryDay Carry".
Martin: I imagine you know this: Opinel also makes knives without the ring lock.
For Irish bicycle tourists: Irish law is different again. Some knives are simply banned outright by type-name including all knives deemed to have as their only function cutting or impaling people, martial arts knives from the Far East, but also folding razors, which is a common American pocket blade. A knife with a lock is not particularly banned. But you'd better not be caught here with a knife on your person, though in your gear any knife not particularly banned is okay as long as you can explain its necessary purpose to your tour. Martin's Opinel with the slide-locK would probably be acceptable, depending on its size. My own solution is to take only pocket knives with slip joints and blades less than 3" out of the house, and always in my gear rather than my pockets. Also, I use folding pocket knives of a recognised farmer's design (clip point, lambsfoot, and spay blades, the last passing for a penknife), probably familiar to at least half the policemen here.
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Martin: I imagine you know this: Opinel also makes knives without the ring lock.
Yes. But I find the locking feature useful.
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Andre, it's really lockable. Also advertised as such: https://www.swisstool.co.uk/st/outrider-swiss-army-knife.html When you open the big knife it clicks and then you can't fold it unless you unlock it by this grey sliding button. It's good that I've been made aware of this law, 'cause it's better not to try. I like this knife because I eat lot of bread and this has a slightly bigger blade than the usual size victorinox, which makes the slicing of the bread easier. But this is both locking and 3.5" so better not to try my luck.
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Back to the original topic:
1. good news: I purchased the Nomad 565L S&S from Hoot's neighbour: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14884.0
2. I will be in England on a trip 3rd Sep - 12th Sep
3. I will have even more questions here :)
Q1: what paper map do you recommend for backup. I plan to use my Garmin Edge Explore 2 as the main navigation device, but you know, just in case... I'm still not 100% sure about the whereabouts (see other question), but I am thinking about one "general" UK or England map, that could save me if my Garmin runs out of battery.
Q2: what cycle specific, more detailed paper map would you recommend? (for the area I know I will tour in)
Q3: what Android app would you recommend? The best would be if it's possible to integrate it with the Garmin (like Komoot), but even if it's only as a helper app that I would use to find things for the next day it is fine, if it's "better" than Google maps in some regard. I would live to be able to try out cycle.travel on android, but it's not available yet (though it might be ready by September)
Q4: where to tour? I need to decide which direction to ride from Beverly, East Yorkshire, where I'll collect the bike. I'll need to get back to Luton airport at the end of the 8 days trip.
One option is to head south and get closer to the airport.
Another option is to do some trip in northern England.
Either way most of the nights I plan to stay in a tent in campings and the last night in some apartman/AirBnB/hotel where I'll have a room and the whole afternoon/night to disassemble the bike and pack it into the S&S soft case and head to the airport with the bike bag + my 2 rear panniers on bus/train.
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1. good news: I purchased the Nomad 565L S&S from Hoot's neighbour: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14884.0
Congratulations, Flocsy, and Hoot. A Sunflower Yellow Nomad! With S&S fittings! And Rohloff! I looked at Hoot's photos several time and thought, "If I were only twenty years younger." It's a thing of beauty. And cheap at whatever price you struck -- it will last, and please, long, long after the price is forgotten.*
The Cateye LD-TL1100 rear lamp is characteristic of how carefully everything on this bike was considered. That particular Cateye was at the top of their range, considered in its time, and still by some, including me, as the best rear blinky available for any price (and it was eye-tearingly pricey -- I paid 55 Euro for my first one); I still have one on each of my bikes as the backup lamp and daylight running lamp and nighttime blinky. You want to take particular care that the endcap, behind which the batteries live, is firmly fixed and cannot shake loose, because if it is lost on the road, the lamp will not work. I use mine with a releasable tie wrap around the lamp, lengthwise between the domes of lenses -- you'll see what I mean when you have the bike and the lamp.
Enjoy!
* Paraphrased from Sir Frederic Royce's answer to people who claimed his cars were expensive.
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I can't think of a good single paper map of the country which would provide sufficient detail for navigation but this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultimate-Cycle-Route-Planner-Map/dp/1901464415/ provides a good overview. Sustrans sells a lot of maps https://shop.sustrans.org.uk/collections/maps.
On longer rides I carry a powerbank. 5,000mAh capacity should both a fully charge a Garmin and half charge a phone. I also use OsmAnd on an Android phone as my backup mapping because it's possible to download all the relevant mapping in advance and store it on the phone which avoids the problem of discovering there's no phone signal (far too common in rural Britain) so Google Maps or similar won't work. If you have a route as a GPX file then you can load it into OsmAnd. That app is also very useful for providing an wider view of an area when the Garmin shows only the local detail.
If you have access to a computer then https://explore.osmaps.com includes a national cycle network layer which could be useful for initial planning of where to go. There's also an OS Maps phone app which will show cycle routes for free although some other information needs a subscription. Parts of northern England are hilly (the Pennine hills run up the middle) so zig-zagging southwards towards your departure airport may be the better option.
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These days my back up for the Garmin is the phone, Google maps for urban areas and OsmAnd with the routes should there be a Garmin issue. I still like to take a paper map, if plans change it's nice to get the bigger picture in a way you can't on a screen. OS maps in the UK, there isn't any serious competition. The Road series is OK, I think eight maps cover the country at 1: 250 000 scale, some minor roads are left off and it gets confusing in an urban area, they're not perfect but I have no trouble navigating with one. If you're in a touristy area, the OS Tour series might be worth a look, they're at different scales, the whole of Scotland is on one and another just has Cornwall, I have my local Peak District one at 1: 100 000, I haven't seen any others. In the days before GPS, it was common practice to have pages torn out of a road atlas with the route drawn on. Editions that were slightly out of date were always to be found cheap in remainder shops, I don't know if that's still the case.
Where to go? Spoilt for choice, what's you preferences and interests? Love hills or try to avoid them? Campsites or off site? Daily mileage? I like NCN routes, they're a decent mixture and although they occasionally have me cursing, no more so than when I plan my own. If you're happy with hills, I'd follow the coast North from Beverly (NCN 1) as far as Whitby, across the North York Moors (NCN1/165) then head South where it meets NN65 to York. That's about 150 miles and plenty of choice from there.
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I just "lost" my Garmin watch yesterday. It died. Battery lasts for less than a hour. So I'll definitely take a paper map. I like gadgets but need to be able to find my way even if I'm back to the stone age.
I like hills. Maybe not mountains :) but if it's part of the landscape, then let it be part of my 1st "alone tour". I am more worried about rain than the uphills.
I like green, landscape, woods. But also nice castles (probably won't visit though 'cause afraid of theft) or buildings (i.e viaducts, forts, ruins)
Definitely campsite. I'll have a tent, but not ready yet to take water and food for more than 1.5 days and my bike doesn't have dynamo so I'll also need the campsite for charging.
My milage is one of the big questions: new bike, new panniers, new saddle. Last year I had a flat tour in the Netherlands, but I was with my 10 year old boy, so we only made 60km days. I'll find it out on the way I guess, but I think it'll be around 60-80, (occasionally up to 100km if I know I have a long stretch and prepare to leave early) a day, and probably also depend on the terrain.
The eurovelo12 passes Beverley, I guess that is also part of the national cycle network. It looks like good choice. And after 5 days I'll know my strength better and then I can plan the last days in such a way that I arrive to a town where I'll have a train or bus to the airport on the last day.
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The eurovelo12 passes Beverley, I guess that is also part of the national cycle network.
Yes, it's NCN1.
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You like mountains?
We've got the highest in UK up here in Scotland; and quite a few more big uns.
Perhaps we're too far off your route?
Nevermind they don't move much so will be here for your next visit.
Matt
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I think I'll come back in the next few years to do a proper Scotland tour (though it might be with the family and without the bike, we'll see) and maybe also a Land's end to John o groats. For this 1st tour with this bike I'll be ok with the mountains that come by, I don't need to look for them :)
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Thorn's Touring Bike Bible http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/thorn_mega_brochure.pdf is worth reading, if you haven't already done so, as it's more than a bike catalogue and contains much relevant advice based on the author's experience.
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Which spare inner tube (with presta valve) would you recommend for Nomad mk2 with Schwalbe Marathon 2.0” Tyres on Andra Rigida 30 Rims? I'll bring a patch kit with me, but might be easier to use a spare inner on the road side and patch the flat later in the camping.
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Pretty much any tube will be fine, I use Schwalbe because they're a reasonable price, for a couple of quid more I use the lite version which don't seem to be any less robust and the spares pack smaller. They're also faster, physics says so, though it's not something I've ever noticed.
The only poor tubes I've had were ridiculous cheap, it didn't take me long to discover why. I also had a Continental which had a manufacturing fault, though the lesson there is about not carrying untested kit rather than brand loyalty.
If it's not raining, and I'm not in a hurry or holding a group up, I patch my tyres at the roadside. If the cause was obvious, I'll sometimes do so without taking the wheel off. Either way, it's the only routine where you continue your journey as prepared as you were before the puncture. Plus, the repair is tested there and then, rather than at some point in the future.
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+1 for Schwalbe. I accept nothing less.
+1 for the Leicht or light tube, which saves significant rotating weight and in my experience is noways inferior in longevity or puncture resistance to the normal inner tube. I have a tube still in service that was new on my fave bike 13 years ago.
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I just came back from a 2 weeks family vacation from Hungary and I was surprised to see that there was only 1 place where they didn't accept credit card. What is the situation in rural England? Will I need to bring cash with me or can I pay with credit card even in small supermarkets, shops, campings, pubs, etc?
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In almost all circumstances you'll be able to pay by card, assuming your card is issued by one of the common players. We've been heading towards a cashless society for a decade or so, the pandemic accelerated it. It's best to have a bit of cash as a back up, but the chances of needing it are slim. I last drew cash out at Easter, £50 and I have about £20 left!
OTOH if you prefer to use cash, there's very few circumstances where you won't be able to, or it'll be less convenient. There's those who continue to rely on it, often in the mistaken belief they're doing the retailer a favour, though in nearly all cases they'll prefer a card transaction as it costs less to process.
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Perhaps one of those pre-load currency cards might be useful. I use Wise for overseas transactions. The exchange rate is pretty good, better than many banks. Simply load it up with your home currency then convert to your chosen other currency. I’ve found it very convenient, safe and economic. Using it to withdraw cash from ATMs might incur a charge. Wise give you both a physical and digital card. Revolute is another although I know nothing about it.
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I also use Wise as my preferred card abroad and I'll take another one that is Mastercard as a backup, plus 100 Pounds in cash just in case.
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What are my chances to find open supermarket / minimarket / grocery store on Saturday / Sunday in the UK (in rural area)? Should I prepare by buying 2.5 days worth of food on Friday?
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Saturday should be no problem up to about 5pm provided the village has a food shop. Sunday is more of a lottery with shops owned by chains more likely to be open than family businesses. Many petrol stations have shops which will be open on Sundays. If you know where you are going then it could be useful to look closely on Google Maps to see what shops exist and sometimes there are links showing the opening hours.
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The Outer Hebrides observes Sunday closing as per the tradition of the Wee Free Church.
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Shops - It's a bit of a gamble on any day. If you've chosen a rural route, it's possible to go all day without passing a shop. Though if you're stuck, google maps will usually find you a detour to something. It also varies from area to area and village to village, many having lost their local shop over the last decade.
I always carry some food of last resort, in the bottom of a pannier and something I'm not that keen on, something that isn't going to tempt me unless I actually need it.
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Yeah, I got my nuts mix, and I almost had to eat it tonight, but at the end Google did find a small shop in a small village that was open after 6pm and only with 20m detour :)
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Yeah, I got my nuts mix, and I almost had to eat it tonight, but at the end Google did find a small shop in a small village that was open after 6pm and only with 20m detour :)
Where are you now?
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Hooton Lodge Farm near Swinton and heading south to Oxford